10,000 League games visualised in 30s

[K9]

Pretty visuals!

I'd love to see the equivalent for DoTA. This doesn't paint a picture of an particularly dynamic meta

[HaemishM]

That makes total sense. LOL isn't a particularly dynamic meta anyway. You get to your lane and you stay there. Most games end up in the middle.

[Malakili]

The problem is the sample size is almost too big I think.  When you have that many games you just have a whole bunch of dots pretty much all over the place and while I guess it looks kind of neat it doesn't really say anything interesting.

[Johny Cee]

Pretty visuals!

I'd love to see the equivalent for DoTA. This doesn't paint a picture of an particularly dynamic meta

The only really damning pictures are the "tank, carry/support, mage, jungler" ones.  They really show how staid the LoL meta is, with each role concentrating so much in their assigned lanes and 2-1-1 with a jungler being so prevalent.

The opening rounds of TI4 (whatever they were called, can't remember) really showed off the variations in successful strategies in Dota.  You saw deathball (which ultimately killed the tourney because people couldn't/wouldn't adjust), 4 protect 1, junglers, off-lane carries, gank/roam heavy line-ups, safelane tris, offensive trilanes, greed/farm heavy line-ups, split push/"rat" dota, etc.  Yah, deathball eventually took the top two spots but EG and C9 both played pretty different strats that got them to the 3/4 positions.

Even in more "normal" games at lower skill levels, you will see things like roaming supports pretty regularly.  Played a game yesterday with a roaming Mirana that just fucking wrecked the other team with arrows from the fog from the zero minute mark...  first blood 15 seconds into the game when me (mid), a support and mirana collapsed on a dude trying to grab the first rune.  Or a snowball mid that cedes midlane after the 6/8 minute mark to gank and lets your support farm midlane.  Or the ganking/teamfight offlane that gets levels that goes to other lanes to gank or push towers (bounty, slark, etc.)  Even junglers are pretty substantial different....  you get guys like Chen or Enigma who farm up a core item than go to lanes and push or control the map.

Hell, in mid-game focused set-ups you see tp supporting carries going to fights early on.  Generally if I carry I like to play one like PA that after a couple medium items and some levels you can go wreck face.

[Megrim]

The funny thing is that League doesn't actually have or need to be so entrenched - its just that there is some kind of, I don't know, malaise, towards doing anything unusual.

[Malakili]

The funny thing is that League doesn't actually have or need to be so entrenched - its just that there is some kind of, I don't know, malaise, towards doing anything unusual.

Define "need" or "have" to be.  Because the reason we see so many similar strategies is because it's the best way to win.  The Pros don't have a "malaise" towards anything unusual.  Their job literally depends on them finding the best ways to win.  If doing something "unusual" was the way to do that, they'd do it (and then it would become "usual" if it turned out to be a robust strategy).  And the rest of the people who play see that style of play and copy it because it's the best.

It's like saying football doesn't "need" to be so entrenched.  You could run a double reverse on every play if you wanted, but there is just some kind of, I don't know "malaise" among offensive coordinators. 

[Megrim]

You fall into the usual trap of assuming that the pros know something you don't. Sometimes this is the case, sometimes not. Secondly, I was talking more about pub-level play but I suppose you could extend that statement to include the pro-scene. Yes, typically when money is on the line, people will follow the path of least resistance - but in such a case it is up to the game designers to direct the flow and complexity of the interactions which are allowed to take place. So one could argue that League's balance team has, historically, been a bit questionable.

[Rasix]

This isn't surprising.  It's pretty pictures but kind of says a lot of nothing. 

The established jungler, 1-1-2 lane layout, and prevalent laning phase have existed since late season 1.  League players (which I haven't really been one for over a year) don't really give a shit about it.  Certain metas get lots of flack, but the general game flow and structure which would create these maps in any meta, are hardly an issue.  Champ diversity and viability are more of a problem than noobs staying in their lane a bit too long.

This covers a ton of solo queue games at a non professional level.  A minute percentage of games are going to be played at anything near the professional level, and even then you're going to run into a general lack of cohesive strategy other than "win your lane asshole, I want my elo".  You don't even see lane switches on pro-streamers, the level of give-a-shit in solo queue is pretty low. 

Why do DOTA players always jump all over this?   

As an aside, I'd love to see a map of this over a 1000 Bronze V games.  Or just Haemish.  Haem, you need to stream LoL.  I miss spectating your games.

[HaemishM]

Shit, I haven't played LoL since I bought Battlefield 4.  My stress levels went down just a wee bit. I'm not even sure what the meta is for season 4. My wife is playing it now and curses it just as hard as I did, and she's mostly only playing against bots with her friends.

I'll tell you why the meta is so staid. Because the elo system is SO FUCKED, getting out of lower tiers is almost impossible. And god forbid you try ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING even remotely not "the norm" in solo queue, you will get absolutely fucking reamed by your team. I mean, even if you aren't the reason the game is lost, if even one thing goes wrong, you will be the cause of it and will be reported by at least 2 if not all 4 of your teammates and maybe some of the other team as well. Unless you facerape the other team with your non-meta build, you will be the cause of all evil in the universe already.

The community is absolutely TOXIC in ranked play at all fucking levels.

[Malakili]

You fall into the usual trap of assuming that the pros know something you don't.

It isn't about them knowing something I don't, it's about them being motivated to play the best way.  If I came up with a strategy that revolutionized LoL today, the pros would be learning it tomorrow. 

I have no disagreement with your second part - the game is mostly more boring than DOTA 2 for exactly those reasons and I haven't played LoL really since I got my DOTA 2 invite.  But putting it on the designers is kind of my point.  If you design the game with a particular way to play being by far the most consistent then that is the way people will play it, so in a sense it does "have" to be so entrenched - at least from a player standpoint.

Sure if the developers overhauled things and made it more dynamic through more viable strategies, that would be great.  But don't blame players for playing optimally.

[HaemishM]

IOW, don't hate the playa hate the game! 

[Kail]

I dunno.  On the one hand, I agree that Riot (when I played, anyway) was interested in enforcing a "play it our way" kind of balance strategy, and the map was obviously designed with a three lanes + 1 jungle + 1 support meta in mind.  Characters and map elements that got in the way of this were changed to support it, and they weren't shy about blatantly saying that this was exactly the reason why they were being changed.

But on the other hand, I can't really absolve the players either.  A lot of them WANT a stable meta from what I can tell.  You can't jump in to a pub with a bunch of randoms and come up with some weird complex 0-1-4 strategy and expect people to be able to pull it off correctly.  LoL is a complicated game and people need to know what's expected of them as soon as they start.  They want to know what to do so they can focus on doing it, so they can play without having to say anything other than "mia".  You don't really have time to plan strategy and tell everyone what to do and play competently at the same time.  The game's got four maps, last I checked, and two or three of them (not sure about ARAM) were pretty underplayed because everyone wants the familiar three lane - river - jungle setup that we've gotten used to for years.  So I can't put ALL the blame on the devs.

[Goumindong]

Shit, I haven't played LoL since I bought Battlefield 4.  My stress levels went down just a wee bit. I'm not even sure what the meta is for season 4. My wife is playing it now and curses it just as hard as I did, and she's mostly only playing against bots with her friends.

I'll tell you why the meta is so staid. Because the elo system is SO FUCKED, getting out of lower tiers is almost impossible. And god forbid you try ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING even remotely not "the norm" in solo queue, you will get absolutely fucking reamed by your team. I mean, even if you aren't the reason the game is lost, if even one thing goes wrong, you will be the cause of it and will be reported by at least 2 if not all 4 of your teammates and maybe some of the other team as well. Unless you facerape the other team with your non-meta build, you will be the cause of all evil in the universe already.

The community is absolutely TOXIC in ranked play at all fucking levels.

The ELO system isn't fucked. If you're not climbing its because you're as good as the rest of the people you're matched with.

The meta in S3 and 4 has been pretty wildly varied. 4v0 pushes and their various defenses, 2v1 and their various defenses, early objective swaps, various invade strategies. All of these with varying team compositions including poke, siege, engage, skirmish, and split pushing and mid to late game strategies. Team compositions have varied the secondary carry role from top, mid, and jungle and so similarly have brought utility and tank from those positions as well. We've seen damaging and utility supports. We've seen multiple solo lane AD's. We've seen Bruiser/Support v AD/Support duo lanes and Bruiser/Support v Bruiser/Support

[ezrast]

You don't get it man, this one time I was playing DotA and I built a damage item on a support, and I didn't even get banned and we almost won that game, so clearly League isn't as good.

Doesn't need green I hope but here's a tiny /s just in case: /s

[HaemishM]

The ELO system isn't fucked. If you're not climbing its because you're as good as the rest of the people you're matched with.

Yes, it is. The ELO system doesn't grade on any sort of curve. You either win 3 out of 4 every single time or you sit in ELO hell FOREVER. And at Bronze level, something many of you may not have experienced as much as me, all it takes is one cockgobbler to fuck it up. Just one. And guess what? At bronze? Those cockgobblers are in an insane abundance, much moreso than at later levels that have already self-selected those shitgoblins out. There were many times when I had just reached the next tier or made it to my promotion matches and the next two games either had trolls who tanked on purpose or AFK'ed. And anyone who has played solo queue in LOL knows that One Cockgobbler to Screw Them All rule. There's a reason it's called Bronze Hell. You have to play at Pro levels to get out of Bronze AND be able to carry your team despite the dolts who infest the place. It's easy to say the ELO system works when you are in Gold and your other teammates aren't Johnny AnalFissure out to fuck up everybody's game.

[Rasix]

Promotion doesn't match the account MMR.  Yet, you have to win 3 of 4 (one to 100 LP and 2 out of 3 after) to get a division promotion.  However, that doesn't mean that if you still win games your MMR won't go up.  You'll eventually be playing people better than your division if you win.

I go back and forth on the concept of ELO hell, but in the language that you're using, you might be where you belong.   

[HaemishM]

If they are grading on profanity, I'd be in the division under Bronze. 

[Draegan]

The ELO system isn't fucked. If you're not climbing its because you're as good as the rest of the people you're matched with.

Yes, it is. The ELO system doesn't grade on any sort of curve. You either win 3 out of 4 every single time or you sit in ELO hell FOREVER. And at Bronze level, something many of you may not have experienced as much as me, all it takes is one cockgobbler to fuck it up. Just one. And guess what? At bronze? Those cockgobblers are in an insane abundance, much moreso than at later levels that have already self-selected those shitgoblins out. There were many times when I had just reached the next tier or made it to my promotion matches and the next two games either had trolls who tanked on purpose or AFK'ed. And anyone who has played solo queue in LOL knows that One Cockgobbler to Screw Them All rule. There's a reason it's called Bronze Hell. You have to play at Pro levels to get out of Bronze AND be able to carry your team despite the dolts who infest the place. It's easy to say the ELO system works when you are in Gold and your other teammates aren't Johnny AnalFissure out to fuck up everybody's game.

Explain how some of the best players can go from unranked to diamond+ in a matter of hours. Even someone in plat/diamond can get out of bronze pretty fast. I was silver last season, bronze this season and I know I'm at where I belong.

[HaemishM]

No idea how they go from unranked to diamond in hours. It would have to be a shitload of hours.

Also, do these mythical players have regular teammates who help them through (as opposed to the hell that solo queuing)?

[Job601]

No idea how they go from unranked to diamond in hours. It would have to be a shitload of hours.

Also, do these mythical players have regular teammates who help them through (as opposed to the hell that solo queuing)?

Since you're not a cockgobbler, your team only has 4 spots that can be taken up by  one, while the other team has 5.  Bad luck can screw up your promos, sure, but over enough games that 20% advantage you have will make your rise in the ranks.  You have to remember that the players on the other team are just as terrible as the ones on your team.

[Goumindong]

Yes, it is. The ELO system doesn't grade on any sort of curve. You either win 3 out of 4 every single time or you sit in ELO hell FOREVER. [...]

Your MMR is not tied to your division. So you do not have to win 3 out of 4 to advance. A few patches ago there was a change such that people with an MMR much higher than their division would skip divisions without promotions series. This was done because there were a couple of players who were diamond players, but had a bronze division. They did not have a bronze MMR, they were playing against other diamonds. They just dodged their promo series in order to forcibly fail them. It was a cosmetic change only. If you're legitimately failing your promos you're not being held back. This is why many people complain about having to play against Plat 4-2 in order to get into Platinum. They've been winning but were unlucky with their promos and so their MMR has increased. 

Promotion doesn't match the account MMR.  Yet, you have to win 3 of 4 (one to 100 LP and 2 out of 3 after) to get a division promotion.  However, that doesn't mean that if you still win games your MMR won't go up.  You'll eventually be playing people better than your division if you win.

I go back and forth on the concept of ELO hell, but in the language that you're using, you might be where you belong.  

If we think about long stretches of those short stretches its actually almost impossible to not promote. If you're playing promo series at your "true" mmr then it should take on average 2 series to promote(for a probability of winning equal to 50% the probability that you win 3 before you lose 3 is precisely 50%). If you're playing above its longer, but no so much longer that its unlikely.

As you play more and more games the likelihood that you promote is exceedingly high. That, combined with the inability to drop unless your MMR falls very far, is one of the primary reasons that there are more people in plat 5 than nearly the entirety of gold 1 and 2 (and i think 3). Its because, if you're legit gold 1 its actually hard to not get a streak that carries you into plat eventually, even with the mechanisms in place to make it harder

That doesn't mean that there aren't going to be plat 5 people who never make it to plat before the end of the seasons, but that is by far the exception rather than the rule

No idea how they go from unranked to diamond in hours. It would have to be a shitload of hours.

Also, do these mythical players have regular teammates who help them through (as opposed to the hell that solo queuing)?

Yes they have the plethora of bad teammates. A number of people have "careers" streaming bronze (or seeding) to diamond matches from fresh accounts. They're playing the same game as you are, they're just better at it.

Look, I am pretty bad at this game. I main support, I am Plat 3(call me plat 5 average MMR). Below gold 3 or so, i can hard carry from almost any role. (my jungle is super rusty, so no clue on that). I can lose lane every game and still hard carry from every role.  I don't win all my games down there. But damned if i don't maintain a really high win rate down there because that shit is easy yo. No one knows how to manipulate waves, no one knows objective or buff timings, no one knows how to play the vision game, no one buys pinks, few people buy enough potions; everyone chases for days etc etc etc.

[Rasix]

Look, I am pretty bad at this game.

You're what, top 5-10% of ranked players?  I think you're OK.  I'm not sure there's a higher ranked f13er.

I on the other hand, couldn't crawl out of bronze 2 in 50 games.  I think I lost maybe 3-4 promotions?  But this was back in early season 3 maybe?  I've heard they've smoothed things out some.

No bones about it, though, I sucked bad.  Soraka/Taric/GP/Ryze/Kayle/Nunu were my main champs. That's all you need to know about my mechanics.  

[HaemishM]

If you are in plat, you are not bad at this game.

I'm not in anyway saying I'm good at the game. However, I am better than at least 25% of the people I've played with in Bronze V. Yet the highest I ever got was Bronze 3 and it took all of 3 games with shitgoblins to drop me back down to the middle of Bronze IV. The tumble comes mighty quick and it often comes despite whatever skill I have, not because of it.

[Goumindong]

Look, I am pretty bad at this game.

You're what, top 5-10% of ranked players?  I think you're OK.  I'm not sure there's a higher ranked f13er.

I on the other hand, couldn't crawl out of bronze 2 in 50 games.  I think I lost maybe 3-4 promotions?  But this was back in early season 3 maybe?  I've heard they've smoothed things out some.

No bones about it, though, I sucked bad.  Soraka/Taric/GP/Ryze/Kayle/Nunu were my main champs. That's all you need to know about my mechanics.  

Its a mentality thing. Keeps me focused on my play and not my allies. Focusing on your allies play makes you toxic/tilt and distracts from what you need to do to win. Focusing on your play helps you to understand how to help your allies while keeping your problems firmly your problems.

As soon as you start thinking that your problems are your teammates you make your teammates a problem and make yourself a problem for your teammates

[Druzil]

Edit: I meant to put this in the Team Builder thread, whoops!

So I took about a 6 month break from league but I've been back into it the last few weeks.  During most of S3 I only did ARAMs, a friend recommend I give this a try.  At first I picked ADC and realized I needed more time to get my CSing in order or I was just not going to win much.  I noticed every game I was waiting on a support and I'd never mained support before so decided to give it a chance.  

So my last 10 games have been on Nami support and I've really been enjoying it.  I feel like I'm getting much better in lane and in ward control.   Late game I have a habit of over-committing now and then, but I'm working on that.  I buy probably 3-6 pink wards and drop ~40 wards total per game but knowing where exactly to put them is another story.  I'm still learning the best places to cover and where to sweep.  So I think I need to try out a few more support champs before I move on to some other lane.  

Anyways, point being so far I really like team builder.  I like that you can practice exactly what you want and you don't have to play a game against bots.  Also it definitely seems less toxic than my past experiences in normal drafts.  Plus you get some fun match ups, I went against a Teemo/Fid bot yesterday which was fairly entertaining and had a double Dunk-master Darius top lane which was hilarious to watch.

[Goumindong]

I buy probably 3-6 pink wards and drop ~40 wards total per game but knowing where exactly to put them is another story

Everywhere

Really?

Yes



For real though there are three main wards you want to place

1: The Combat Ward. Place a ward in any bush the enemy may retreat to in combat. This prevents them from using the bush to juke/interrupt abiltities etc. Pink wards do this for champions like Akali

2: The movement control ward: This ward goes in chokepoints. It prevents the enemy team from moving to a position that you don't know about.

3: The area control ward: Anywhere you need vision in for starting/holding an area like dragon or a tower.  If you're standing on the area, a pink works well to prevent the enemy from putting greens in. This is kind of like a combat ward but you've got time to set them up before hand.

[Malakili]

If you are in plat, you are not bad at this game.

Part of what makes you not bad at competitive games is always thinking you're bad.

[Fordel]

Nah, it's just a safety blanket to wrap yourself in. It's the same stupid shit artists do, "I just recreated the Mona Lisa, but really guys I'm shit." Usually followed by lots of validation and praise from other people.


Like, knowing you can improve and thinking your shit is not the same thing. There's a lot of room between total shit and Dendi.

[ezrast]

On some functional level, perhaps, but it's not fair to draw that comparison between art and a competitive pursuit like League. MOBAs are well-known for their tendency to foster self-aggrandizing attitudes in players that are ultimately destructive to gameplay so if you're going to be invested in the game, it makes sense to consciously adopt a mindset that runs against that influence.

Mostly though it's an element of the subculture that you guys might not be aware of. Everyone who's good-but-not-pro at League claims to be bad. It's just the done thing. Anybody can go look up anybody's ranking so what's the point in puffing yourself up?

edit: going beyond that, remember that most League communities are filled with kids who think they're hot shit but are actually terrible, so claiming to be bad marks you as either a) good, or b) actually bad, but self-aware enough to realize it, which still puts you ahead of 80% of the mouthbreathers. Opening up your post with "I'm pretty bad at this game" is basically League-insider-speak for "I have a fucking clue."

[Fordel]

Who said puff yourself up? There's also a lot of room between "I'm the best bow down to me" and "I can hold my own".

The whole "everyone who isn't top tier is shit" is nothing at all new or unique to League, you see it in fighters, Starcraft, Dota, fucking MMO PVP. It's still a stupid way to go about looking at things.

Like, how would people take posts that literally started with "I have a fucking clue". Not very well is my guess.

It's fine we if pretend we are bad though, when we know we aren't but don't want to come off as a braggart (I totally googled that word). 

[HaemishM]

I won't say I'm bad (or wasn't bad when I played). Again, I am not good at the game but bad? No. Below average but at my worst, I'm better than at least 25% of the people I've ever played with in solo ranked queue. At my best, I may approach average. I don't need to puff my own ego up, I'm taking an accurate assessment of what I see when I play.

Now, whether or not I'm good enough to ever get out of bronze should I deign to ever play again... can't say. Past history would say not, especially considering that 25% that seems to cling to my balls like crabs.

[Goumindong]

I won't say I'm bad (or wasn't bad when I played). Again, I am not good at the game but bad? No. Below average but at my worst, I'm better than at least 25% of the people I've ever played with in solo ranked queue. At my best, I may approach average. I don't need to puff my own ego up, I'm taking an accurate assessment of what I see when I play.

Now, whether or not I'm good enough to ever get out of bronze should I deign to ever play again... can't say. Past history would say not, especially considering that 25% that seems to cling to my balls like crabs.

My current ranking is plat 3 0 LP, which according to lolsummoners puts me at around #72,360 in NA (#442,226 globally) or top 5.04% of ranked players.

The one thing that I legitimately do well in this game is understand the mindset of myself and the other people playing it. I've seen your mindset before and no, you're not making an accurate assessment of your surroundings. No one does. Not one person in league can accurately access the skill level of their teammates or enemies while playing a game. The problem is the fundamental attribution error. We tend to see other peoples errors as faults in their play and ours as luck.

This is why I do my best not to judge in game and think about what we can do to win instead. Why? Because i know that if i make an assessment it will likely be incorrect. And additionally those assessments provide no help in actually winning the game. Thinking someone is shit is detrimental to your play, when they make good calls you will fail to go in when you should.

I actually have an example of this from a game a long time ago. I was playing Thresh with an Ezreal against cait. We get an advantageous laning phase and immediately go all in when we get back to lane (since we should have had an item advantage). But I made a mistake, Ezreal bought sheen when he should have bought Phage and I didn't see that. We get double killed. They snowball the lane hard. Its the mid game and I am like 0/6/2 or something atrocious. But our mid still believes. And I made two good hooks which lead to 5 for 1 aces(with me being the one dying). But there is the thing. If Kat didn't believe in my call, or let my lack of prior performance cloud her judgement we would not have gotten those aces and would have lost the game.

Was I a crab holding her down? No. I made the calls that won the game, even acknowledged as such in post game when their support called me bad and she defended me.

Of all the people you have ever played with in solo queue i would doubt you're better than 25% of them. You should be better than about 50% of them. After all, if you're properly rated in any game the expectation is that half of the people will be below you in MMR and half above. If its only 25% then you're over rated.

The only constant in your games is you. If crabs are holding you down its because you do something unique to let them.

Aside: The same applies to toxicity. If you get more toxic people than the other side then you're probably doing something to create it.

[HaemishM]

One doesn't create AFK's in their head, nor does one's imagination cause people in character select to refuse to communicate so that people pick lanes they aren't good at or don't have champions for.

[Goumindong]

One doesn't create AFK's in their head, nor does one's imagination cause people in character select to refuse to communicate so that people pick lanes they aren't good at or don't have champions for.

Sure, but one does ignore the ones that happen on the other team (observation bias). And the ones that happen on the other team happen more often than the ones that happen to you, so long as you don't offend at or above the median rate.

[Malakili]

I basically look at it like this: If you take a pro player and put them in my place on any given team, "my" team would win that match.  So regardless of any other factors, the one that I can actually control - how well I play - is the one I should be most worried about.  If I was playing well enough, we'd win.  If I'm not playing well enough to win, then we can get into other factors, but then at that point I'm not playing well enough so who cares.