Nintendo DS: The Second Screen is like Goggles!

[schild]

This has been delayed almost as long as Duke Nukem Forever.

[Strazos]

Friend of mine bought the DS. I played the Metroid for about 10 minutes. Using the stylus to aim was cool at first, but I viewed it as nothing more than a novelty. WTG Nintendo.

[AOFanboi]

Then again, the words "novelty" and "games" often go hand in hand down to "fun" beach. (Only four days until it's out here in Europe - sans any interesting games, though. Oh, when will you release Animal Crossing DS, fookers?)

[Sky]

Luckily, my buddy the eqholic, when employed, buys every damn thing that gets any kind of hype, so I got to  check out the DS in the month or so he owned it. He had M64 with him at the time, knowing I liked the original, I guess. The handheld struck me as gimmicky and nothing more than a minor upgrade to the GBA (as in...why would I bother buying this rather than the GBA?)

I remember the first time I used my supervisor's PDA (I'm not a gadget guy, don't own one). The first thing I thought of as I wrestled with the stylus as an input device was "holy shit, this would ROCK for games!"

[Velorath]

For all the success Nintendo has had in the video game industry, they're still the same people that packaged that fucking robot in with the original NES.  Sometimes they don't make the greatest decisions.

[Paelos]

I agree, they aren't bulletproof. They've made numerous errors before. They really really REALLY have to get over this "release systems without a ton of games" crap. Do you remember the Gamecube release? There were maybe six games, and three of them sucked.

Note to Nintendo. Flagship games are good for a new system. Flagship games only for the first 4 months sucks ass.

[ahoythematey]

Schild reviews the DS and slams it on, generally, every aspect?  Wow, I didn't see that one coming.

[Shockeye]

Schild reviews the DS and slams it on, generally, every aspect?  Wow, I didn't see that one coming.

Are the criticisms valid?

Next time try to add a little content with your post. Thanks.

[ahoythematey]

Okay then.

Schild has openly reacted in what one might consider a hostile manner towards the DS within these very forums, and his dislike of Nintendo in general is as well-documented as his excitement over the direct competition of the DS, that being the Sony PSP.

Yes, criticism being of a subjective nature makes his points entirely valid, but given his previous attitude I'm more inclined to roll out a pithy and lacking-in-substance post than really address the issue.  At least Mr. Rei was openly a fanboy before criticising the DS at you know where.

If you want my Nintendo-fanboyish analysis of the DS just for comparitave reasons, here: the DS has some really neat design ideas, really good sound, a lot of potential for future games should Nintendo wake up and start supporting it better, and a currently-shitty selection of DS only games.  If it wasn't backwards compatible I'd be supremely pissed off rather than generally irritated.  I am far less apprehensive of having paid for a first-run system like the DS than I would be for something like the PSP or the eventual PS3, based on Sony's winning record of shitty hardware problems.

[schild]

Schild has openly reacted in what one might consider a hostile manner towards the DS within these very forums, and his dislike of Nintendo in general is as well-documented as his excitement over the direct competition of the DS, that being the Sony PSP.

I've bought a Gameboy, Gameboy color, that slim metal gameboy thing, 2 gameboy advances, 2 gameboy SPs and now, I've only recently gotten angry with the DS. I think I've earned my right. Also, that other thread where I expressed extreme distaste for Nintendo - this story had already been half written. It's a sad coincedence that may make it look as though I'm going out of my way to bash Nintendo. I'm not, and I had do add a bunch of shit to make this story more current. I also didn't feel right publishing it without at LEAST one more flagship title. So I waited for Wario Ware!

If you want my Nintendo-fanboyish analysis of the DS just for comparitave reasons, here: the DS has some really neat design ideas, really good sound, a lot of potential for future games should Nintendo wake up and start supporting it better, and a currently-shitty selection of DS only games.

The DS has some neat design ideas that I would hazard to guess would work better on a Dell Axim v50x or whatever their new PDA model is. The screens on the DS are sorely small for what they are calling a 'next-gen' handheld. I also feel as though they've already played out the gimmick with Wario Ware! and Feel the Magic. I don't think the dual screen is going to help them much in the future. Companies are going to get so wrapped up in needing to make use of it that the games will suffer. I'm not trading in my DS for 2 reasons: Animal Crossing DS and Advance Wars DS. According to calendars, in the next 8 months, Nintendo still wouldn't have caught up with the Sony PSP's library of games in the first 3 months of launch. It will be interesting to see if Infected or Advance Wars sells better this coming Fall since both systems will have been out for a while. Also, yes, most DS games are $10 less than PSP games. But, to me, that's pretty negligible when I'm buying fun.

  If it wasn't backwards compatible I'd be supremely pissed off rather than generally irritated.  I am far less apprehensive of having paid for a first-run system like the DS than I would be for something like the PSP or the eventual PS3, based on Sony's winning record of shitty hardware problems.

Many people are having problems with their DS speakers blowing out. My left speaker just went. It's only a matter of time before it becomes a news story. Also, a number of people have been documented as having dead pixel problems. My first Playstation still works. My first PS2 still worked when I traded it in for a PSTwo Slim thing that still works.

[Shockeye]

Okay then.

Schild has openly reacted in what one might consider a hostile manner towards the DS within these very forums, and his dislike of Nintendo in general is as well-documented as his excitement over the direct competition of the DS, that being the Sony PSP.

Yes, criticism being of a subjective nature makes his points entirely valid, but given his previous attitude I'm more inclined to roll out a pithy and lacking-in-substance post than really address the issue.  At least Mr. Rei was openly a fanboy before criticising the DS at you know where.

If you want my Nintendo-fanboyish analysis of the DS just for comparitave reasons, here: the DS has some really neat design ideas, really good sound, a lot of potential for future games should Nintendo wake up and start supporting it better, and a currently-shitty selection of DS only games.  If it wasn't backwards compatible I'd be supremely pissed off rather than generally irritated.  I am far less apprehensive of having paid for a first-run system like the DS than I would be for something like the PSP or the eventual PS3, based on Sony's winning record of shitty hardware problems.

Good job.

[Sky]

his excitement over the direct competition of the DS, that being the Sony PSP.

You really think he won't hate the PSP, too?

[schild]

his excitement over the direct competition of the DS, that being the Sony PSP.

You really think he won't hate the PSP, too?

I don't HATE the DS. I just don't think it was worth the purchase. There's promise there that will go completely unused because it's just going to be the same characters with the same trappings in Nintendo's same old worlds. I've been telling people that Resident Evil 4 is a good enough reason to buy a Gamecube outright if you haven't. THen I tell people to buy Eternal Darkness. Sometimes even Tales of Symphonia.

I don't know why people get so pissy when I bash Nintendo. I'm not trying to touch everyone in bad places, they just aren't the company I loved when I was little. Hell, even my cousin - who is 7 - got a PS2 over a gamecube.

[HaemishM]

Nintendo is continuing their history of making really oddball decisions with hardware, just like they did when they were the unchallengable kings of the roost. Only, now they aren't. Sure, they hold a monopoly on the handheld market and may continue to do so, even after the PSP comes out.

But it won't be because of what they've done, but IN SPITE OF what they've done. If the DS had not had its back-catalog of GBA games, it would be more worthless than the fucking N-Gage. I say this as a moderately happy N-Gage owner. The DS is a gimmick system, overpriced with shitty, SHITTY support. How do you release a system that has less than 10 games this far after launch? Answer, you don't, unless you have plenty of reserves to live off of.

There's a reason the Gamecube is 3rd, and it isn't because the hardware can't do some good things. It's because the hardware doesn't account for things it should, like online play, simply because of Nintendo's myopic nature. It's also because the game support is not there. Even the X-Box library beats it. /sadf

Of course, I'm sure Nintendo can limp along for many years on their reputation, fanbois and in-house games being retread a dozen times over. But I think their days as the handheld king is over.

[Sky]

I don't HATE the DS.

Don't screw up a perfectly good smarmy comment with facts, kthx ;)

[Fabricated]

To be honest I think the DS was a really, really bad move on Nintendo's part, and Sony is going to eat their lunch because of it.

They should've waited for the PSP to be released and moved ahead with their "Gameboy Revolution" or whatever. Less confusion amoung buyers, less annoying to devs.

[Kail]

I also feel as though they've already played out the gimmick with Wario Ware! and Feel the Magic. I don't think the dual screen is going to help them much in the future. Companies are going to get so wrapped up in needing to make use of it that the games will suffer.

I didn't see this mentioned in the review (feel free to smack me if I missed it), but I'm kind of curious about how the second screen and the stylus thing kind of work.  I can't think of a game where the phrase "This would be so much better if I could play with a stylus" floated across my mind, so I'm wondering if there's some underlying concept here that everyone but me is familiar with.  I can see the usefulness of a stylus in a graphics program or something, but how does it work in, for example, Mario?  Does it feel okay, as a control device?

I'm also kind of curious about the second screen.  The general impression I get is that it's there to display pause screen info (maps and so on), which seems like something that didn't really need to be changed.  Is there something I'm not seeing here?

Also, the current implementation of these things seems like a gimmick; does anyone see anything on the horizon that looks like it could make this into a genuinely worthwhile innovation?  I remember when the N64 first started using the rumble pack, it was seen as something of a useless gimmick, but a few titles (StarFox and Zelda spring to mind) really brought out what the peripheral could do, and now it's standard on all three consoles (and a lot of PC peripherals).  Any ideas on the potential for this dual screen/stylus thing?

Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but I just don't see, really, any potential for this kind of thing.  It sounds to me like someone added a bananna holder to the GBA ("Now it can hold a bananna!  It's improved!"), but I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here, so I was wondering about how it looks to someone who's actually played one.

[ahoythematey]

That touch-screen and stylus would make well-done RTS completely possible, as well as Diablo-style control schemes.

Having two screens would make something like controlling a group/squad of units...interesting, with something like one screen representing a primary character/view while the second one could be divided up for the rest of the characters/viewpoints through splitscreen or whatever.  Example: Rainbow Six-style game where top screen is controlled unit's view and bottom divided into quarters for the rest, although it would become cramped.

[schild]

That touch-screen and stylus would make well-done RTS completely possible, as well as Diablo-style control schemes.

Having two screens would make something like controlling a group/squad of units...interesting, with something like one screen representing a primary character/view while the second one could be divided up for the rest of the characters/viewpoints through splitscreen or whatever.  Example: Rainbow Six-style game where top screen is controlled unit's view and bottom divided into quarters for the rest, although it would become cramped.

Unfortunately they didn't go the distance that would make this feasible or fun. The systems screens are too small, the graphics barely approach the level of the n64 (while the PSP is at PS2 level - through different architecture). I agree, the potential is there, but my big complaint is that they simply screwed the pooch. Cannon Fodder would work well on this system though.

[Alkiera]

Having only really played a bit of the metroid demo thing on the DS at EBWorld, the stylus/touchscreen as input device was far more natural than I had anticipated, and by far the best console adaptation of mouselook I've played with.  I can see schild's point about RTS games, or even TBS games, where being able to target and select items/characters is important, too.  Current console controls suck for that.

I do agree on the screens thing, tho.  They're a bit small.   The FPS demo does use the secondary(lower) screen for maps and objectives, as well as 'stylus-look' input.  The default control scheme has stylus-look, the D-pad operates like WASD, and the left shoulder button fires your weapon.

Still, the promise of the system isn't being touched yet.

Alkiera

PS: What's this 'Gameboy Revolution' being referenced?

[schild]

There's supposedly another gameboy coming out at the end of the year. It's pet name in the media is the Gameboy Revolution or somesuch.

[trias_e]

I don't really give a shit about the article, I'm just suprised that you think Halo "decimated" Metroid Prime.  Um...right.

[schild]

I don't really give a shit about the article, I'm just suprised that you think Halo "decimated" Metroid Prime.  Um...right.

In sales, jackass. It absolutely annihilated it.

[trias_e]

Sales aside, there’s no question that Mario was beaten by Ninja Gaiden, Samus was decimated by Halo, and Zelda isn’t looking so shiny with a new ICO in the works.

Apparently, I don't understand the meaning of the words 'Sales aside' in this sentence.  Usually, when you say that, it means you are not taking into account how much the game sold but instead looking at some other measure of quality.

[schild]

Sales aside, there’s no question that Mario was beaten by Ninja Gaiden, Samus was decimated by Halo, and Zelda isn’t looking so shiny with a new ICO in the works.

Apparently, I don't understand the meaning of the words 'Sales aside' in this sentence.  Usually, when you say that, it means you are not taking into account how much the game sold but instead looking at some other measure of quality.

Hello miswording. Might as well stand by it. In 10 years you won't be hearing people talking about Metroid Prime 1 or 2. Maybe Super Metroid. But not prime. They will most likely still be discussing Halo though. Even if *I* disagree with them. The thing you must understand about the above, is it's not that I agree, it's just how it is. I happen to agree on Ninja Gaiden beating the pants off Mario in every sector a platformer can be judged however. ICO is also much more engaging than Wind Waker.

[trias_e]

Fair enough.

I just get sick of Prime constantly not getting the respect it definitely deserves, and thought this was yet another case of that.  As far as the other games go...yeah, you've got an argument.  Prime is pure brilliance though, in my opinion probably the best console game I've played in years.

[kaid]

no offesense to the metroid games which are damn cool but I have seen shorter lines for block buster movie openings than I saw the day halo  2 was released. I have never ever every seen 40 people lined up to buy a video game about 1/4 of them with an xbox in hand to buy as well. There would have been more xboxes in hand but everyplace in the mall had sold out of them the day halo 2 was up for sale.

Kaid

[ahoythematey]

Interesting that you say that, because I have a co-worker who is a die-hard Halo fan that ended up kind of burned out on Halo2 somehow, and when I ask him what he plays right now it's usually "MP2 or San Andreas".

[Hanzii]

I have one of the few PSP's in Europe at the moment (it's not mine, the bastards at Sony want it back again). And I'm in love.
This is a truly amazing piece of hardware. The only criticism I can level is that the screen isn't too good in bright light (reflection in the stylish black), the sound could be a wee bit louder (on the plane from Hannover it didn't completely drown out the engine noise) and the Sony Memorystick sucks....
Or rather, the addition of exchangeable memory is great and the thing that turns this from just a geeky handheld game console and into a true portable media center, but Sony Memorysticks are too fucking expensive.

I haven't really played enough with the DS (I'll probably get one for review this week), but I must say that so far it does nothing for me. I wouldn't mind one a my second device, because I am a geek, but the PSP is the device that will make non-geeks consider owning a handheld console.
It's the iPod of consoles and I want one. So bad I'd get one of you to get one for me from the US release (it'll be out here "sometime in summer") if it wasn't because it was completely preordered.

Not only is it a brilliant piece of equipment, but the way they handle marketing and the hype machine with the limited release is pure genius (if they could only do the same with their new HDD Walkman, they might actually hurt Aplle too).
The DS came out here yesterday and nobody noticed...

------
Oh, and I tried the Gizmondo too.
Crappy games, but with an almost nude blonde breathing heavily in my left ear while pointing out how great it is, I hardly noticed. But if the blonde isn't part of the package, it won't be enough to sell the system... and if she is, my wife might have a thing to say about the purchase.

[ahoythematey]

Any large-storage capacity MP3-player that supports Ogg Vorbis has my vote.

[Hanzii]

I couldn't care less about OGG support.

It interest me just as much as Linux, which is to say, not at all. And if it doesn't play cool games, it really isn't part of this discussion.

[Riggswolfe]

I bought the DS myself. The touch screen feels kind of useless and gimmicky. The games suck. Thankfully I didn't own a GBA so I have a huge back catalogue of GBA games to enjoy.

I like the looks of the PSP but the price just blows my mind. I can't make myself pay that much for a handheld. And I'm a total tech geek.

I guess to summarize the DS really reminds of the Sega 32x or Sega CD. A gimmick that may be a sign of impending doom. I really think Nintendo has maybe one more system in their future before the market is all MS and Sony. (who frankly are making better systems with better support and better games.)

[schild]

I bought the DS myself. The touch screen feels kind of useless and gimmicky. The games suck. Thankfully I didn't own a GBA so I have a huge back catalogue of GBA games to enjoy.

You should feel more than thankful. Lucky even. The screen on the DS is lit much better than the SP.

I like the looks of the PSP but the price just blows my mind. I can't make myself pay that much for a handheld. And I'm a total tech geek.

The price is at $250 for a reason. It can be, and according to all signs: should be.

I guess to summarize the DS really reminds of the Sega 32x or Sega CD. A gimmick that may be a sign of impending doom. I really think Nintendo has maybe one more system in their future before the market is all MS and Sony. (who frankly are making better systems with better support and better games.)

I've wanted Nintendo to go to an all software format for years now. :-D But I've also wanted Apple to start designing PC systems that look as good as their machines. The former is a lot more likely.

[Hanzii]

OK.
The motherfuckers just postponed the EU releasedate of the PSP 'a couple of months'. I can buy the barebones Japanese version from the US for $350. Unless I'm very lucky, I'll get an additional 25% VAT slapped on that when it arrives.

Do anybody know if all US PSP units are preordereed? If not, then perhaps I could find somebody I trust enough to handle the 249$ and shipping...

[Hanzii]

So now I got the DS.
Bad news is that now my colleague sitting next to me, wants to have a go at the PSP (which Sony hasn't asked to get back yet, and I'm not volunteering) arguing that I can't test both at the same time (and the PSP review is done anyway).
"My" PSP had Ridge Racer - the DS has Mario. I hate jumping games...

Well, I get to play the Metroid demo and he gets to play Ridge Racer with his kid. Fucker.