Coin Collecting

[Teleku]

So, in bid to figure out new ways to blow my hard earned money, I suddenly realized I like shiny things.  When I was a kid (and my family was dirt poor) I lived in a mountain town with gold rush history for a bit.  Next to where my dad worked was a coin shop with all sorts of gold and silver things, which I use to gaze at in fascination for hours, but knowing I would never ever be able to posses such things.  Then it suddenly occurred to me today I'm an adult with disposable income now, and can actually acquire such things!  I mean, I throw lots of money per month into a 401K and Roth IRA.  If I redirected $50-$60 a pay check away from the Roth towards shiny metals, I'm still technically investing it.  And after 30 years, instead of a boring bank account, I'll have a pretty bitch'in wooden chest full of coins and ingots (and hopefully gem stones for effect).  Which sounds way more awesome.  Also, with my current job, seems like I should be able to grab some more rarer collectible coins easier than the average person.

So main problem:  I know jack shit about coin collecting and/or precious metals.  Did some googling around today, and tons of terms I'm not familiar with.  Looks like I could easily get scammed, overpay, or just fuck myself if I dive straight in.  I figure perhaps some of you have gotten into collecting precious metals, so any advice or tips would be nice.  Or links to a good article on what I should know before buying anything.  Or just use the thread to talk about coins and shit like that in general.

Kind of sad the price of metals is so high right now (probably means I'm buying at a bad time).  Silver was $5 an ounce when I was a kid, now its $20.  And of course gold was around $360 if I recall.  Though prices seem to be way down from what they were.  God knows when/if they'll ever get that low again, but it probably wont be soon, and I kind of want shiny things now.

Building up a big pile of ingots like in Looper sounds pretty cool, but I did read that coins are better because they have collector value that can make them worth more than the base value of the metal down the road (also, looks better for the pirate chest).

But yeah, any advice on buying coins as cheap and smartly as possible would be appreciated right now.  Primarily on how to best figure out the true price coins.  I glanced a shop today that had American Silver Eagles (And the Canadian equivalent).  They were selling them  for about the equivalent of $30 (about $10 over the metal price currently), but the coins were from the 20's.  I have no idea how much age affects the price.  Are historical coins worth it, or too risky and I should stick to newly minted?  Things like that.

The Polish Mint is putting out a 100 year anniversary of the First World War silver coin right now.  That kind of sounded like a good idea.

[Nebu]

I collected coins for quite a while and left when I realized how much money it required.  Here are the best tips I can give:

1. Condition and rarity are everything when it comes to value.
2. NEVER buy coins from a coin dealer (exception for something you want to fill a gap in your collection)
3. Watch out for counterfeits.  They're everywhere.
4. Buy what makes you happy rather than as an investment.  There are better markets if investing is what you're after.
5. Don't rule out paper money.  Often the bargains can be found there. 

[Teleku]

Yeah, I should clarify that I'm not really looking at this as an investment, I just decided I want to have shiny things I can stare at and call my precious.  It just also happens to be something that could potentially be sold back at a later date for equal or more money than I put in, so somewhat more justifiable than other money wasting hobbies.  But I'd like to do it with out getting screwed over.

Not sure what you mean by paper money on point five.  You mean like, old out of circulation paper money?

And if not a coin dealer, then who should I buy from?

[Merusk]

What Nebu said.  My grandfather had a bitchin' collection of stuff that got split between my dad and aunt. (Easily a few hundred grand)  and I found I have the bug, too.  I'm not dropping a lot, but I keep coins that are precious to me.  

I've got sets I'm working on for everyone's birth year, and condition varies from crap to fine.  So long as I'm not obsessive they're still special to me.  I don't mind I probably got ripped off on the 1945 $.50 cent piece because I needed it for Dad's set and it was only $7.  If I'd dropped $60 on it I'd have been more concerned.

The more you look at it as an investment the more paranoid you've got to be about it.  Take it up as a hobby, learn what you need and build from there if you want to become serious. Jumping in with both feet at the start is only going to get you scammed and upset.

fake ed:

Yes he means out of circulation paper money.  If not coin shops then other collectors and websites.  I just went through Amazon for the $.50 cent piece, knowing I'd get an iffy quality, but the price was right for my risk profile.

[Nebu]

And if not a coin dealer, then who should I buy from?

Other hobbiests, estate sales, flea markets, etc.  Sometimes even pawn shops can have some deals if you're willing to haggle. 

Finding the coins in unlikely places was where I got my enjoyment from the hobby. 

As for paper: Yes, I meant old notes.  Foreign and domestic.  Silver certs, old Hawaii money, etc can be fun. 

[Teleku]

Oh certainly.  My dad actually had a mini coin collection going because he worked in a super market for 20 years.  When ever he was handed change, if he shook it he could tell by the sound if a silver quarter from before 63 (or what ever year they stopped doing that) was in it, and would later swap it out with a normal quarter he owned from the register.  He also managed to get several silver certificates people paid with this way, which I always thought were really neat.

I've already seen places selling Polish coins from the interwar years for fairly cheap prices.  I'll look into currency more (I already collect currently used bills from every country I visit, heh).

[Nebu]

If you want something that will retain its value or appreciate, you'll need to get it graded.  The one advantage coin dealers have is that the items will often be graded at the time of purchase. 

[Teleku]

Do they have some sort of grading authority that does it though?  What stops a shop from slapping what ever grade they want on it (though I know this would be country specific, so you probably wouldn't know how it worked in Poland)?

Is there any sort of Kelly Blue Book for coins you can use to figure out what the price should be around?

[Nebu]

Here is a posting from eBay on the matter.

[Teleku]

..... So basically physically look at any coin before I buy it.  Gotcha.   

But good to know, thanks for the link.  Now I need to figure out wtf the coin grading ranks actually mean.  Can't they like, color code them like items in mmos?

[Furiously]

I'd avoid gold coins like the plague at the moment.

[Nebu]

I'd avoid gold coins like the plague at the moment.

As an investment, I agree.

For fun... why not?

[Teleku]

I'm with you there Nebu.  Would love some gold coins.  However, my OCD just kills it.  First time in my life I was paying attention to coin prices, it was $5 an ounce for silver, and less than $400 for gold.  If I try to buy any gold at its current price, my brain may actually take control of my hand away from me, and strangle myself before the transaction can take place.  No matter how badly I want the shiny....

[Signe]

Most coins aren't very shiny.  You should collect jewels instead.

[Nebu]

Most coins aren't very shiny.  You should collect jewels instead.

Women won't let us.  They hoard them all.

[Furiously]

I think a mineral collection could be cool.

[Teleku]

That is something I'm also interested in.  Crystals and Gems equally fascinate me, but that seems even more pricey to get into than just pure metals.  But I really have zero idea on how to approach that.

Would be kind of neat to get a small cube/bar of every single element on the periodic table that can hold that form.  Well, except for the ones that can kill me if I get anywhere near them.

[Samwise]

Take up rock polishing, then you can make your own shiny things (and sell them at a profit if you're so inclined).

[rattran]

Really, really be paranoid about counterfeit coins. A pair of people I know made quite a bundle of money counterfeiting 1820's large cents and half-cents. I'm sure most of them are still bouncing around coin shops. I get people approaching me about making 'replicas' all the damn time.

[Khaldun]

I need to dig out my childhood collection. Just kind of fun to look at. Some interesting stuff like Japanese war script from the Phillipines etc. Not really worth much but just interesting.

[Lantyssa]

I've got a childhood collection I got in to since dad had done it.  His was much better since he managed to get a lot of the silver coinage.  Back when he collected banks would let you sort through bags of coins and replace them at face value, too.

I have been meaning to get my own evaluated, just to see if there is anything good in it at all.

[jgsugden]

I'd suggest not posting that you're collecting valuables on message boards.  Either that, or I'd post my address and the code to my security panel. Safe combo, too.

On a more serious side, consider an exit strategy.  Figure out the circumstances under which you'd cash out before you really begin collecting.  It may be that you won't have any cash out plans, but I know a lot of people that got into collecting something and then lost interest... and have very valuable collections gathering dust that they'll never touch again.

[Teleku]

My house has a pretty nice security system that includes motion detectors covering all rooms, which directly alarms armed US Marines when ever it goes off.   

And meh, as I said, I really don't need an 'exit strategy'.  If I ever truly need the cash, I'm sure I'll be smart enough to sell the shit off without fucking myself too much.  Main goal is as a hobby.  Shiny things to gaze at.  I think my only end goal is to literally fill a wooden chest (of any size, depending on how successful I am) of loot by the time I retire.  Because I'm a nerd and love gazing at things like that.

But again, does anybody have a good guide on how to gauge what an acceptable markup is?  There's the base price of one Troy Ounce of Silver, and then the cost of a minted coin that consists of one Troy Ounce of Silver when buying from the mint or coin dealer or who ever.  Is there an average markup that's acceptable?  How do I figure that out?  Obviously for old/rare coins its going to vary heavily, but there seems to be a big markup on even newly minted coins.

[dd0029]

Your local library probably still has coin value books. I know we still do. We've been getting this Standard Catalog of what have you for years and years. The old men still come in to look at them and the Scott's catalog for stamps.

[shiznitz]

This is probably worth less than the bits needed to type it, but my father gave me and my brothers a mint and proof set every year for Christmas for about 25 years.  I recently pulled them all out and valued them on ebay.  I think it was 3 years that were worth more than $10 today and one that was worth $30. 

Generic coin collection is crap.  Pick a theme and build a collection around that theme.  I did this with my stamp collection in the 80s.  I focused on a colonial theme and spent about $200 amassing 100 or so stamps, spending over $20 on a few.  The values have cratered but I actually still enjoy perusing the collection.

[Teleku]

You guys are making me think I should just save up and every two months or so buy an ingot, so I can have that looper stash in a few years after all.   

[Reg]

My dad bought my brother and I mint sets for years. We're old enough that this included 1967 Canadian centennial mint sets including the twenty dollar gold coin that's worth like 800 dollars these days.

Come to think of it if you just like the idea of owning shinies you probably can't go too far wrong just buying collectible gold coins that are old enough to have an established value. Things like the 1967 or 1976 Canadian coins aren't ever going to drop in value and they're both very pretty.

I'm not sure about newly minted coins though. I suspect many of those drop in price after they're released.

[Furiously]

After watching a video on Chinese factories that make fake coins, I think I would be terrified I was buying a knockoff.

[Nebu]

After watching a video on Chinese factories that make fake coins, I think I would be terrified I was buying a knockoff.

Alternatively, it might be exciting.  Every coin comes with the surprise of not knowing if it's real or a counterfeit! 

[Reg]

Apparently there's a very easy test to see if a coin is at least real gold or silver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOxEHduLRC4

[Count Nerfedalot]

I'm somewhat of a hoarder collector (I'm getting better though) so I can offer a couple thoughts from inside that particular trap. 

Most importantly, do not go into this expecting to make any money.  Not even breaking even. Cash stowed in the mattress is a better investment.  Unless you plan to become a serious expert in it spending all or most of your waking time learning about it for the next 10 or so years, you will get taken.  And even then you will get taken a lot the first several of those years.  Also, unless you are building your collection solely by finding stuff on the beach with a metal detector, you cannot make a profit unless you either buy it for less than it's worth (some people call that smart business when they do it but getting taken/scammed/robbed when it happens to them), sell it for more than it's worth (see above), or get lucky and guess correctly which things will appreciate on their own over time (good luck with that).  And finally, as always but even more so, if a deal looks too good to be true, it is. It's either stolen or fake or otherwise misrepresented to make you think it's worth more than they are asking while actually being worth far less. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Be aware that you can often spend almost as much money storing and caring for your collection as you do ON it. Having a pirate's chest to fill with your plunder is fun, putting a valuable coin in it? Crazy stupid.  Every time you touch a coin (or stamp or comic book or Magic card or whatever) you risk devaluing it.  Letting it touch another hard metal object guarantees devaluing it!  See all those videos of experts handling coins? They always wear gloves unless the coin is in its little cardboard and plastic sleeve thingy.  And a pile of those don't look nearly as cool in your treasure chest, and it would still be a stupid idea because that plastic is NOT sapphire, metal will scratch metal right through it no problem.  The plastic is just there to protect the coin from your greasy fingers, literally.  Gloves are probably also a good idea anyway just because not only do you not know what kind of nasty stuff a coin might have on it from general circulation, but counterfeiter's aren't exactly fastidious about the materials they use, including some really nasty poisons (both the metals they're made of and the chemicals they process them with) and other nice things like radioactive medical waste, etc.  I've not actually heard of radioactive counterfeit coins, but I HAVE heard of radioactive counterfeit tools (like Craftsman hardware supply type tools) made from medical waste that got dumped in Mexico, diverted by thieves, etc, etc.  And you KNOW the illegal counterfeit crap from China is going to be at least as bad if not worse than the legal crap that comes from there!

So, that said, you're still interested in collecting some shiny bits just for the fun of it? Cool! Find stuff that looks pretty (and ideally will continue to do so for years - most coinage will tarnish except pure gold and worthless alloy stuff) and/or which has sentimental value of some kind.  Because that is all the value you're likely to enjoy out of it.  Also that pirates chest? Start small. Like, really small. I have a little approx 3.5x7x2.5" wooden box I made as a teenager in some craft class, inside lined with old maps, picture of sailing ship on the outside, etc.  It's almost full now of one-each of general circulation coins I've picked up from my travels around the world plus a few random silver coins I've found in my pocket change, an indian head penny and several "wheaties", and a few gem-like fragments of crystal or broken jewelry that I've picked up in the 40 years since. But it's still not full yet, and it's much smaller on the inside, the sides being half-inch thick wood. And I suspect the chest itself will be the most valued item when my grandson inherits it! LOL

And THAT said, given your career path, it could still be really cool to have a little treasure chest with a small valuable (or not) thing or two acquired from each place you've been that reminds you of that place.  That Polish memorial coin for example, or an opal from Australia, a piece of amber from Denmark, a pretty shell or shark's tooth from a beach, a mini pine cone from a hike in a hemlock forest, a spent bullet from Afghanistan, a finger from your encounter with the Yakuza, or whatever!    Just be sure to keep each one wrapped or in a pouch or something appropriate to protect it from all the others.

[angry.bob]

Really, really be paranoid about counterfeit coins. A pair of people I know made quite a bundle of money counterfeiting 1820's large cents and half-cents. I'm sure most of them are still bouncing around coin shops. I get people approaching me about making 'replicas' all the damn time.

Are you a jeweler/metalsmith, or just have the equipment as a hobby? Just curious because I made my own spin casting setup to copy Warhamster figures. After some trial and error I can now produce stuff that in a lot of cases is better than stuff I've gotten out of GW packaging. I don't sell any of it, but a pretty big chunk of the used stuff on Ebay are recasts. If people are doing it for a Warhammer miniature that can go for $40-$100, I'm curious to know how much more technical the process to replicate a $2000 coin is.

[rattran]

I work with pewter for a living, mostly production Romanoff spincasting, some custom rtv stuff.

If you can cast decent GW figures, you could do coins.

[Strazos]

I would just go about collecting coin currency from wherever - in fact, that is exactly what I am doing, though not by specific design.

You could even have friends from all over the world mail you a few assorted coins. Now, with the euro adoption this is slightly less interesting, but once my stuff gets to me in Mexico I'll have to see what sorts of diverse coinage and currency I have. I've picked all of my stuff  at random from my travels.

[Signe]

I have a bunch of currency from all over the place, too.  Even a bit of Australian money which is very cheerful.  Euro and Canadian money also looks happy.