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Author Topic: Update: Falling damage, JJ heat, Command Console, Targeting Comp., Clan Weapons  (Read 2793 times)
Falconeer
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on: June 07, 2014, 05:57:59 AM

Last night they posted a lot of "Command Chair" posts about the incoming changes in the near future. They sound very reasonable to me, meant to differentiate weight classes even more and somehow reduce the absolute viability of poptarting/jump sniping.

Fall Damage Overhaul (includes landing from jumping)

Quote
Fall Damage Overhaul

In order to achieve a better game experience, we are working on an overhaul of the Fall Damage System. The way the system behaves right now is that every Mech takes between 0.3 and 0.5 damage on each leg, depending on fall speed and time in the air.

The new Fall Damage System will take into account not only fall speed and time in air, but also the weight class and the armor a Mech brings into the battle.

This means the damage will be higher the heavier the Mech is. A Light Mech would only take a small amount of the damage an Assault Mech would take, if they were crashing on the ground with the same speed.

In greater detail:
If a Mech is in the air longer than [1] second, the system would calculate the armor brought into the game together with the leg health. To determine damage, a certain percentage is taken from that calculation, i.e. Light Mechs = [1] %, Medium Mechs = [2] %, Heavy Mechs = [3] %, and Assault Mechs = [4] %.

Depending on what the current fall speed is (on a range between [30] ft/s and [60] ft/s) this base damage is multiplied by another variable (ranging from [1] to [1.4]).

The outcome is a dynamic range of fall damage depending on speed and weight class of a Mech.

Here is an example using the numbers above of what this could look like:
∑    Light: minDmg = [0.67] / maxDmg = [0.938]
∑    Medium: minDmg =[2.14] / maxDmg = [2.996]
∑    Heavy: minDmg = [3.75] / maxDmg = [5.25]
∑    Assault: minDmg [7.28] / maxDmg = [10.192]

NOTE: All numbers above are for example purposes only. Actual production numbers will be shared in the patch notes. We hope to have these implemented shortly after the Clan Collection release.




Jump Jet Heat Ramp

Quote
Jump Jet Heat

Jump Jet heat is currently not being applied properly to the jumping 'Mech. We are re-implementing the system to make each individual Jump Jet generate linear heat the longer it is used.

Each Jump Jet class will have its own heat rating which will be used to determine how much heat is generated. Class V (smallest) Jump Jets will generate the least heat over time while Class I (largest) will generate the most. The graph below shows an example of how this would be ramped.



If we set the heat rating to a Class V Jump Jet (the kind put on a Spider for example) to 0.1, each Jump Jet mounted on the Spider would generate 0.1 heat per second while it is being used. If there are 8 Jump Jets on the Spider, then Jump Jets would be adding 0.8 heat per second to the 'Mech while Jump Jets are burning. Again, the heat gains will be linear for each of the Jump Jet classes.

While we appreciate that table-top rules are somewhat different, implementing them as according to turn-based system would severely affect smaller 'Mechs in our real-time game environment.

NOTE: All numbers above are for example purposes only. Actual production numbers will be shared in the patch notes when the fix has been implemented.




Command Console and Targeting Computer

Quote
Targeting Computers and Command Console

Iím here to tell you about an upcoming good news/bad news situation. Letís start by getting the bad news out of the way, shall we?

The arrival of the Clan 'Mechs introduces a new piece of Clan only equipment, the Targeting Computer. Unfortunately, the Targeting Computerís functionality wonít be in place when the Clan 'Mechs arrive on June 17th. All Clan 'Mechs that come with a Targeting Computer will still receive them, the computer just wonít do anything.

Now for the good news! The Targeting Computerís functionality will be in place in the patch following the Clan launch. Not only that, but the same patch will see the long awaited functionality of the Inner Sphere Command Console. So, at this point you probably want to know how the Targeting Computer and Command Console will work in the game. Letís start by taking a look at the Targeting Computer.

Targeting Computers

In the tabletop game, the Targeting Computer is a piece of Clan equipment that improves the accuracy of the direct fire ballistic and energy weapons equipped on the 'Mech. The tonnage and space occupied by the Targeting Computer is variable and is based on a percentage of the total tonnage of the affected weapons currently equipped on the 'Mech. Instead of having variable weight and slots, in MWO we will have multiple different sizes of Targeting Computers ranging from 1 ton/1slot (the Mk I) to 7 tons/7 slots (the Mk VII). If a canon Clan 'Mech has a Targeting Computer as part of its default loadout, in MWO it will receive the version that matches the weight/slots of the Targeting Computer in the tabletop record sheet.

Each version of the Targeting Computer will affect the same aspects of the 'Mech, but the larger the Targeting Computer, the more pronounce the effect. Letís take a look at the different Targeting Computers, bearing in mind that only 1 can be equipped on a 'Mech at a time.

NOTE: All values are placeholders for example purposes only. Beam weapons include all lasers; projectile weapons include all Gauss Rifles, PPCs, and non-LBX Autocannons.

Targeting Computer Mk I
Weight: 1 ton.
Slots: 1 slot.
Zoom distance: [+2.25]%
Sensor range: [+2.25]%
Time to gather target info: [-22.5]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+4.5]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+4.5]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+4.5]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+14.5]%




Targeting Computer Mk II
Weight: 2 tons.
Slots: 2 slots.
Zoom distance: [+3.25]%
Sensor range: [+3.25]%
Time to gather target info: [-32.5]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+6.5]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+6.5]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+6.5]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+16.5]%




Targeting Computer Mk III
Weight: 3 tons.
Slots: 3 slots.
Zoom distance: [+4.25]%
Sensor range: [+4.25]%
Time to gather target info: [-42.5]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+8.5]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+8.5]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+8.5]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+18.5]%




Targeting Computer Mk IV
Weight: 4 tons.
Slots: 4 slots.
Zoom distance: [+5.25]%
Sensor range: [+5.25]%
Time to gather target info: [-52.5]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: +[10.5]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+10.5]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+10.5]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+20.5]%




Targeting Computer Mk V
Weight: 5 tons.
Slots: 5 slots.
Zoom distance: [+6.0]%
Sensor range: [+6.0]%
Time to gather target info: [-60.0]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+12.0]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+12.0]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+12.0]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+22]%




Targeting Computer Mk VI
Weight: 6 tons.
Slots: 6 slots.
Zoom distance: [+6.75]%
Sensor range: [ +6.75]%
Time to gather target info: [-67.5]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+13.5]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+13.5]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+13.5]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+23.5]%




Targeting Computer Mk VII
Weight: 7 tons.
Slots: 7 slots.
Zoom distance: [+7.5]%
Sensor range: [+7.5]%
Time to gather target info: [-75]%
Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+15.0]%
Beam weapon long ranges: [+15.0]%
Beam weapon max ranges: [+15.0]%
Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+25]%




Command Console

Now letís take a look at the Inner Sphere Command Console, which will be sharing functionality similar to the Targeting Computers.

NOTE: Once again, all values are placeholders.

Command Console
Weight: 3 tons.
Slots: 1 slot.
Zoom distance: [+5.25]%
Sensor range: [+6.0]%
Time to gather target info: [-20.5]%





CLAN AND IS WEAPON UPDATE

Quote
Weapon Updates and News

We have some Clan weapon information for you all as well as some updates to IS weapons too!

Gauss Rifles

The Gauss Rifle will operate as is but only 2 Gauss Rifles can be charged at one time. For example, the Dire Wolf 'Mech can theoretically equip 4 Gauss Rifles. This would be VERY nasty on the battlefield since Gauss Rifles do not generate heat and can sync their charges all at the same time. Due to the amount of energy it takes to charge a Gauss Rifle, any given 'Mech can only charge and sustain 2 Gauss Rifles at any one time. If you put all 4 Gauss Rifles on the same weapon group and hit and hold the key, you will see that only 2 of them will charge. If you do not fire them, the two charged weapons will discharge and the other two Gauss Rifles will instantly start charging. If you do fire the first two Gauss Rifles, you can start charging the other two immediately. Basically this translates to only being able to fire 2 Gauss Rifles at the same time. This mechanic will also be carried over to the Inner Sphere version of the Gauss Rifle.

The Clan ER-PPC

The Clan ER-PPC will be spreading its damage across multiple components. As you may know, the Clan ER-PPC does 15 damage compared to the IS PPC doing 10. The extra 5 damage will be split to 2 adjacent components at 2.5 damage each. For example, if you hit a 'Mech with the Clan ER-PPC in the center torso, 10 damage will be applied to the center torso and 2.5 damage will arc to the left and right torso. If you hit a component that does not have an adjacent component, the 2.5 damage will dissipate into nothing. An example of this is if the Clan ER-PPC hits an arm, 10 points of damage will be applied to the arm and 2.5 damage to that side's torso. The other 2.5 damage will be negated so total damage done on the shot is 12.5. Now it is understood that this has been a requested feature for the IS PPC for a long time, but this mechanic was needed to help curb the sheer OP power of the Clan ER-PPC to help us keep Clan tech somewhat in-line with the IS tech already in the game. When Clans go live, the IS PPC will behave as it does now with no changes. We will continue to watch what is happening on the battlefield and will make adjustments as needed afterwards.

The Clan LBX Cluster vs Slug Ammunition Selection

As mentioned in the last Dev Vlog, we ran into an issue with the ability to swap ammunition types on the fly while playing the game. This has not changed. For the time being, we have created a one off weapon type that has the exact same characteristics as the LB-X in terms of weight and space requirements but fire slugs with the same characteristics of the Clan Ultra AutoCannon counterparts. For example, the Clan LB 2-X will fire a cluster round totalling 2 damage. The Clan AutoCannon/2 will fire a 2 round volley with each slug doing 1 damage for a total of 2 damage. Players will have to make the choice as to which weapon to equip to their Clan 'Mechs according to the firing style they wish to use. The space and weight of the Clan AutoCannon/2 is the same as the Clan LB 2-X. The range, firing mechanics, damage, etc. are the same as the Clan Ultra AutoCannon/2 (minus the double tap ability). These "Clan AutoCannon/#" weapons will remain in the game until such time that we can get the ammunition switching working.

Clan LRM Minimum Range

Clan LRMs are supposed to not have a minimum range to do damage. Unfortunately we have not had the time to get this fully working for the Clan launch. During the development of this feature, to be released shortly after the Clan launch, we will have the same minimum range as the Inner Sphere LRMs of 180 meters. We apologize for not getting this in on time for the Clan launch but it is not something we are going to forget about. Engineering has the design in their hands and they will start working on it as soon as possible which will likely show up in the first patch after Clan launch. Just to keep you in the loop as to what will be happening, so you're not left in the dark, Clan LRMs will have ramping damage in the 0-180 meter range. This will not be a linear ramp (i.e. damage will not be 1/2 at 90 meters). In order for damage to climb to normal levels, it will slowly climb in the 0-100 meter range and then quickly ramp up in damage from 100-180 meters. Exact numbers will be released as the system goes into testing.



EDIT: Targeting Computer and Clan Weapons update.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 05:17:18 AM by Falconeer »

Samprimary
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Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 02:15:30 PM

the clusterfuck which is PGI's attempt to balance clan weapons alongside inner sphere weapons will be a thing to behold
Falconeer
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Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 06:38:31 PM

Paul Inouye published his big plan to change Jump Jets.

More heat generated.
Less lift provided.

Going live next Tuesday, the 15th.


Quote
A Jump Jet Update

We are updating Jump Jets to bring the gameplay aspects surrounding them back into line where they should be. Again, it is very important to remember that Jump Jets are for maneuvering purposes only and not meant to make a 'Mech fly around the environment.

In order for us to reach our goal, two new aspects have been updated to Jump Jets.

First: Jump Jet Heat.

Table Top (TT) rules add 3 heat instantaneously upon using any number of Jump Jets. Now naturally we can't do that without severely penalizing anyone using a Jump Jet no matter the duration or how many are being fired. What we're doing for MWO is creating a baseline Heat Per Second for a single Jump Jet. This single Jump Jet causes a maxed Single Heat Sink 'Mech to hit around 3% heat. Adding 4 more Jump Jets will take this same 'Mech to around 10% heat after a full burn.

What this does is not cause a 'Mech to overheat.. but essentially it will stop the 'Mech from cooling down while Jump Jets are in use.

Second: Jump Jet Thrust

There are 2 aspects to how Jump Jets lift your 'Mech off the ground. The first is the initial boost that pushes your 'Mech off the ground and slightly forward. The second aspect is how much each Jump Jet adds to your total height gain through Jump Jet use. These numbers have now been updated to reflect what was mentioned above about Jump Jets being used for navigational purposes over rough terrain. The fact that a single Jump Jet was producing almost the same amount of thrust as 4 Jump Jets on the same 'Mech obviously didn't make sense.

Jump Jet's are now doing much less compounded lift than before. The initial boost is also providing less vertical lift than before. This means that across the board, all 'Mechs will be not be jumping as high as they were before. It is still possible to do snap turns using any number of Jump Jets, this change only affects vertical displacement.




Why This Change is Needed

The combination of Fall Damage, Jump Jet Heat, Jump Jet Thrust changes culminate into a change in gameplay dynamics in keeping 'Mechs feeling heavy and more tank-like. The way everything was playing out was that 'Mechs felt more like light and agile exoskeletons.

One common misconception that I've seen concerning these changes is that this was supposed to "fix" the "pop-tart meta". That is not the case. Just to be clear, we are not trying to remove pop-tarting from MWO. It is a valid, tactical means of play. The way we want to address it is from a cost per performance view, not eliminate it. The changes in this update do affect the pop-tart meta builds but only by increasing costs in tonnage, space and having to adapt to less vertical thrust.


Addendum: This change will be put into the game on July 15th.

Addendum 2: The graph is only to represent the fact that both Heat and Thrust get a base initial value with a linear climb with each additional jump jet. The amount of lift you get is based on Chassis Weight and engine size so the graph would have to be stacked with every chassis/engine combination and their respective values making it very hard to read.

Samprimary
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Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 08:42:08 PM

The jumpjet change was, in practice, classic PGI.

They were attempting to fix something that is a big issue, that probably requires a hell of a lot more than some noodly tweaks, with some noodly tweaks which went after the issue in a roundabout fashion.

And, after said noodly tweaks were in place, people find out that it doesn't much do anything to discourage the problem, but harms a completely separate playtype that wasn't a problem. Sorry, lights.
Lantyssa
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Reply #4 on: July 08, 2014, 10:46:28 PM

Jump jets already didn't give enough lift.  And Lights are expected to use them for positioning as much as maneuverability.  ARGH!

I swear they've never actually played table-top B'Tech.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Sir T
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Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 02:15:18 AM

Hey, PGI, How about just screwing targetting while in the air???

Seriously, The way I mainly use JJs is bouncing and spinning around during a brawl, or getting over terrain. What you are doing is fucking that up while doing shit to fix Poptarting, which is WHAT EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT!!

And now by fucking up the lift amount you will fuck over the actual legitimate and useful aspects of JJs while poptarters will just keep doing the same shit, only now with maxed out JJs. They don;t give 2 shits about heat generated, all it means is that they will be hidden for a second longer before poping.

Its wrecking everyone else's fun because someone in high management is a poptarter.

"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." Stephen Colbert
Falconeer
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Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 02:23:48 AM

Quote
One common misconception that I've seen concerning these changes is that this was supposed to "fix" the "pop-tart meta". That is not the case. Just to be clear, we are not trying to remove pop-tarting from MWO. It is a valid, tactical means of play. The way we want to address it is from a cost per performance view, not eliminate it. The changes in this update do affect the pop-tart meta builds but only by increasing costs in tonnage, space and having to adapt to less vertical thrust.

I HATE the poptart meta. I would be OK with leaving it as an option if it had BIG drawbacks, which according to the quoted text is what they are aiming for. The problem is, the drawbacks still don't seem big enough. Yes, messing with the aim whilein air should be the way to go. Barring that, they should put in severe heat penalties for jumping, or more fall damage. Course, until we see the changes in effect it's hard to tell how it'll play out, but as many pointed out the graph shows how 1 JJ is still the best bang for your buck, and that's an idiotic approach.


Hoax
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Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 09:57:42 AM

As usual the tabletop's rules applied with no modification would have solved their problem better than the last 5 rounds of stupid band aids they tried. I fucking hate these guys.

A cone of fire affected by heat (more heat = less accuracy) and movement (walking > running > jumping) solves how many of the problems they have grappled with for two years? Pretty much fucking all of them. And if you were trying to translate BT into a computer game and not a moron that's what you would design.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Falconeer
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Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 10:08:23 AM

The most annoyng thing is that, yes, a cone of fire for ballistic weapons (plus PPC), no matter how tiny, would have solved 90% of the problems of the last two years. I don't know which explanation I prefer against it: that CoF would have messed with the netcode and not being good enough at coding they didn't dare to change it, or that Paul Inouye is too proud to admit that pinpoint for all weapons was a mistake.

Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #9 on: July 11, 2014, 07:06:06 PM

1. Pin point.
2. Heat system.
3. Going fast is almost always superior to going slow.
*
Each one of those connects to those below it. Pin point all the time means that high heat and going fast / jumping will always be too good. The heat system being toothless means that going max speed is always worth the bump in heat. When everyone is playing at max speed all the time the game loses a big part of the giant robot feel. That's the issue with Hawken for instance. Shit just jumps around and goes fast all the time. It might as well be Heavy Gear.

*also ghost heat. Is the stupidest thing I've seen in any multiplayer game I've ever played.

I say again. I fucking hate these guys.

They could have just been half as competent as Cyanide and not fucked this up so badly.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 01:12:02 AM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Samprimary
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Reply #10 on: July 12, 2014, 12:48:18 AM

PGI gets put in the cone of (fire) shame
satael
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Reply #11 on: July 12, 2014, 01:17:54 AM

Ask the Devs - Vlog #6.

I like how they are going to make clan lrms work at ranges <180m just so the IS mechs will be useless/inferior for lrm boat role. (around 3:15 in that video).swamp poop Head scratch
Falconeer
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Reply #12 on: July 12, 2014, 04:49:19 AM

The LRM thing was inevitable. Every Clan weapon has to be superior to the IS counterpart somehow (except the Gauss if I am not mistaken) and at least Clan LRMs are easier to counter with AMS than the IS version. I am not happy about this, but that's a feeling I carry over since the 80s: I don't like the Clans.

About the video, a short recap of what is coming:

- Rejoin function. If you disconnect you will be able to rejoin the match within two minutes.

- Big huge modules overhaul: basically modules will be divided in three categories, weapon modules, 'mech modules and consumables, and every 'mech will get about 2 consumable slots, 2 weapons slot and 1 'mech slot, with some differences based on specific 'mechs. This way people will be able to equip wepaon modules or consumables (  Ohhhhh, I see. ) without losing the vital utility ones. While this is a neat concept that will further differentiate 'mechs, what it will actually do is increase the general firepower of everyone since peopel will start using weapon modules that are now mostly neglected, and increase by a huge amount the number of artillery strikes in every match, EDIT: and cool shots too for increased firepower across the board. So basically the "Module revamp" will make everyone's life on the field shorter.

- Jump Jets heat and travel distance revamp, discussed at large in the above posts.

- Community Warfare: the "Guild/Unit creation module will be delivered this Summer. After that a "CW Module 2", which no one knows what it's about, will launch in the Fall (yeah, right? Wanna bet?)

- The next map, coming in a couple of months or maybe less, is gonna be a "Mech Factory", an industrial urban setting, medium sized, bigger than River City and about as big as Caustic Valley. After that there'll be a swamp/jungle map.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 05:24:27 AM by Falconeer »

Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3512


Reply #13 on: July 12, 2014, 03:44:17 PM


- Big huge modules overhaul: basically modules will be divided in three categories, weapon modules, 'mech modules and consumables, and every 'mech will get about 2 consumable slots, 2 weapons slot and 1 'mech slot, with some differences based on specific 'mechs. This way people will be able to equip wepaon modules or consumables (  Ohhhhh, I see. ) without losing the vital utility ones. While this is a neat concept that will further differentiate 'mechs, what it will actually do is increase the general firepower of everyone since peopel will start using weapon modules that are now mostly neglected, and increase by a huge amount the number of artillery strikes in every match, EDIT: and cool shots too for increased firepower across the board. So basically the "Module revamp" will make everyone's life on the field shorter.

That's actually smart design! Lots of those modules are worthless simply because you would never want to spare a slot for them versus a Must Have module. More variety is good.

Quote
The LRM thing was inevitable. Every Clan weapon has to be superior to the IS counterpart somehow (except the Gauss if I am not mistaken)

12 tons for clan vs. 16 tons for IS

6 critical slots vs. 7 for IS
Falconeer
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Reply #14 on: July 12, 2014, 03:59:49 PM

I absolutely agree that it's really goot to be able to equip more modules. Just noting that there's a drawback to that. It would be nice to have some defensive modules too, as damage is ramping up again.

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