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Ghambit
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Reply #35 on: February 17, 2014, 11:10:34 AM

[insert customary disclaimer for taking advice from me.  note: I post this largely as a point of discussion rather then an actual mode of treatment]

Lot of good advice in here.  Most everyone has/had bouts of depression in their lives, including myself of late as my life has been fairly chaotic since trying to switch careers (and other personal reasons).  Sometimes this chaos even manifests itself in my postings on f13 (hence, teh crazy labels).    why so serious?

Anyways, my opinion is it's important to catch yourself before you slip too far into a bout of full-on depression.  Realize you've got some negativity to address, and address it.  Give yourself some time to meditate and calmly think things through (you'll be surprised at the clear solutions you may come up with if you just think through a problem quietly), coupled with LOTS of time being active... either with work (depending on the environment), school, exercise, whatever.  It's very important to stay active and feel like you've accomplished something.  Even little things.  Make some short-term goals and knock em out one by one, etc.  The caveat being these things must be positive experiences.  Nothing's worse then sinking yourself into work, when that work is largely a source of discontent.   Realize though, this activity is really just designed to hold you over until the causal issues can be addressed.

9/10 times most depression can be linked to a source of anxiety (stressors: already said in this thread).  Finding the source and excising it or dealing with it (w/o being irresponsible or rash) is the most important thing.  Of course, if you've got an imbalance of some kind, even if things are great you may still get depressed.  This is where professional help will most be needed of course.  The advice to "not tough it out" is categorically wrong; there will be times you cant get to a doc or there's no one there to listen.  You must learn to "tough it out" during these times or suffer the consequences... dealing means not ignoring the signs and managing your stressors before they put you over the edge.  If you get pushed too far, learn how to back yourself off.  The human mind is a powerful learning machine that can usually rewire/repair itself when prompted; w/o meds.

Little things that help (some have been mentioned already):
  • SUN.  Gives well-being obviously and you need the melatonin to help you sleep.
  • Good music!  Sounds silly, but most people I know who fight depression also listen to the most disheartening music imaginable (angry thrash, tori amos, shitty hiphop, srysly?).  This does not help.  Music was not invented to help you "identify" with your issues; it's meant to evoke emotion, many times subconsciously.  Therefore listening to positive music (I do a lot of epic soundtracks, 90's era stuff, maybe some current hipster pop) definitely helps.
  • Stop hanging out with negative influences.  Hang out with positive souls (without being a succubi).  Even if this means meeting new people.  Try a hobby-meetup or some such.  Take a class.
  • Try dietary changes.  Less sugars, glutens, bad fats, and processed stuff.  Start making 'happy foods' and eat them (couple with cooking - which is a good hobby).  Start shopping at Whole Foods, Trader Joes, or Harris Teeter instead of sitting in the line at McDonald's or Jiffy Mart.  I'd say vast swaths of depressed people can trace their problems to food before a mental imbalance.  Realize, your brain gets inflamed just like your body.  Eat badly, inflame your gut, inflame your brain, etc. and it can effect your moods negatively.
  • If you need monetary help.  Do not be afraid to ask for it; but try to ask with a definitive plan to make good use of the money (going to school, retraining, starting a biz, etc.).  Use all of the state/federal fin. aid you can find; again, you need a reason to get it though.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 11:14:03 AM by Ghambit »

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Merusk
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Reply #36 on: February 17, 2014, 11:25:14 AM

This is not wrong advice if given professionally. 

To be clear (since I am a doctor) this advice is not given professionally.  It is advice given in the context of a message board to someone I don't know and should not be viewed as "treatment" or "diagnosis" of any sort. 

Whoops, I see how I put you in a bad place there. Poor wording on my part, I meant if given professionally by a Psycho(log/analy)ist not that you were giving it as an MD.  Derp, my apologies.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
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ghost
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Reply #37 on: February 17, 2014, 11:38:58 AM

This is not wrong advice if given professionally. 

To be clear (since I am a doctor) this advice is not given professionally.  It is advice given in the context of a message board to someone I don't know and should not be viewed as "treatment" or "diagnosis" of any sort. 

Whoops, I see how I put you in a bad place there. Poor wording on my part, I meant if given professionally by a Psycho(log/analy)ist not that you were giving it as an MD.  Derp, my apologies.

Oh man, no big deal.  It's a derp on my part because I really do have to watch what I say in regards to this stuff.  It's not like I'm all that anonymous really.  I actually would offer thanks for bringing that up. 
Pennilenko
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Reply #38 on: February 17, 2014, 12:39:33 PM

I only posted here because, it's mostly anonymous and professional help hasn't panned out. I was curious what type of things have helped people here since I recall posts scattered here and there about fighting depression.

I'm in kind of a rough spot. I have been having problems for a while now, and have seen a couple of therapists. Neither worked out very well. One of them was provided by my school, and ended up making things very uncomfortable there. Both of them insisted on bringing my wife into the fold, which was difficult because I was mainly trying to seek their help in order to figure out how to share with my wife what I am going through. In the last few years, I have lost two businesses. Most of my professional acquaintances have lost their businesses, property and some even their relationships. I have discovered family members living in horrible conditions, aging and reluctant to come to reality. I have to make some hard decisions. Fighting a constant war with having enough money. Trying to finish my degree, support my wife's business, and rekindle my own while providing as much love and attention as I can to my boy.  

It's been about a year, I just go through the motions for people so they don't get concerned, because when they do they take it personally. I just don't feel anything, except for frustration which seems to have an endless reserve. Each day I just kind of let routine carry me, like on autopilot. The worst part is that I know that I have no reason to really be affected in this way. My life is no harder than so many other people, and they are doing just fine. I'm not really looking for sympathy or pity or anything like that. It's just kind of nice to be able to blurt out what I'm thinking in a place where what people think of me doesn't have any real consequence.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 12:46:21 PM by Pennilenko »

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
ghost
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Reply #39 on: February 17, 2014, 12:48:17 PM

Money is a tough deal, because there is no easy fix.  As has been rehashed a billion times here, there is no way to just jump up and "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" that is going to be easy.

My personal advice would be to focus on the boy as much as you can.  Take time and be outdoors with him.  Find something cheap and easy that you can do together, like hiking, to take your mind off of money stuff.  I mean, that is clearly an object of both your affections and your desire to better yourself and your money situation, so do everything you can to help him be better.  It's not all money.  Think of what you are giving him with your time.  That....is priceless.
Pennilenko
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Reply #40 on: February 17, 2014, 12:54:10 PM

My personal advice would be to focus on the boy as much as you can.

That has been my primary tactic recently, although I need to figure out how to ease the stress of this on my wife. I can tell that she is confused and conflicted; she is running out of patience and understanding. I am not sure how much time I have left to fix everything before there is nothing left.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
ghost
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Reply #41 on: February 17, 2014, 01:07:41 PM

Well, you can't fix her.  You can only fix you.  That is a primary basis towards getting better.  It sounds selfish, but it's like being on an airplane when the cabin decompresses.  You're supposed to put your mask on first because you can't help others if you can't help yourself. 

Remember....you always have you.  You're a bright guy and clearly have some common sense.  Do what you gotta do to fix you and the rest will follow along.

One of the hardest things about depression is that it is a bit like an addiction.  You carry the weight of the world on your shoulders.  You want everyone around you to be happy and perfect, and do so even at the expense of yourself.  This is a time when being a little selfish is okay.  It's okay to love yourself and want to be happy.  Keep in mind that when you are at your best that is when you can do your best good at helping your boy and your wife.  But there are some instances where the people you are around are more of a detriment to your condition than you'd like.  It's like an alcoholic hanging out at the bar.  The people you are around may demand more of your psyche than it can allow, so you have to put yourself in a position to succeed. 
Sir T
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Reply #42 on: February 17, 2014, 01:20:52 PM

I'd try and give yourself 15 minutes of relationship time with your wife a day, and NOT in the bedroom. Just time with the 2 of you together alone, even just over a cup of coffee. That will improve things, she will appreciate the effort AND make it easier to open up to her.

I well know the feeling of blaming yourself for everything and taking on all the responsibility for fixing everything yourself. But the problem is, you cant. if you want to take a parable to illustrate things, you are just one half of the bridge. If the other half does not come out to join you you cant stretch to the other side, eventually you will break. Its just making the leap of humility that you are NOT the cause of all the worlds problems.

I mean, I'm the last person to talk about this as my life has been a 100% disaster from day one, bu I know how you can feel in these moments.

You might want to try some prayer too. Even if you dont believe in it, prayer does make you feel better. That's one of the reasons why people do it, and theres lots of explanations on which parts of the brain it stimulates if you want to go that route to allow yourself to do it.

Be principled, but not too principled.
Ironwood
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Reply #43 on: February 17, 2014, 01:30:13 PM


My life is no harder than so many other people, and they are doing just fine.


Do not assume this.  After all, people think the same of you, yes ?

Look around here.  Look how many of us have already, or are currently, going through this shit.

I blame the lack of good games.   why so serious?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Abagadro
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Reply #44 on: February 17, 2014, 01:38:55 PM

Ya, dollars to doughnuts those people are struggling mightily too.  One of the crueler aspects of depression (at least in my experience) is the anger you have with yourself for being depressed, which just makes you more depressed. It's a tough cycle to break.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

-H.L. Mencken
ghost
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Reply #45 on: February 17, 2014, 01:44:48 PM

You might want to try some prayer too. Even if you dont believe in it, prayer does make you feel better. That's one of the reasons why people do it, and theres lots of explanations on which parts of the brain it stimulates if you want to go that route to allow yourself to do it.

Or meditation, if you don't like the idea of prayer. 
Ghambit
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Reply #46 on: February 17, 2014, 01:45:35 PM

I'll echo the prayer part, but only as far as deep "creative visualization" (as a specific tool) goes; not in a religious sense.  Prayer comes in many forms.

As for businesses failing.  I've always thought first and foremost you must not fear failure at any point; this way it doesnt produce as much anxiety if failure comes.  You just shrug it off and move on to your next big adventure.  Personally I expect to fail.  Maybe even hit rock bottom.  But I also expect to bounce.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Focusing on the boy?  Great as long as it's about the boy and not you.  Children are not emotional crutches.  Too often people hide behind their children and think everything's gonna be alright as long as they have their kids.  That's not the way it works.  My brother is going through this same exact thing... his depression runs deep (msg me and i'll give specifics to his situation).  But it paralyzes him and all he thinks about is his kids, rather then what it takes to be there for them.  It has the inverse effect.  Cant even talk to him or help him at this point; he essentially is and views himself as a useless human.  Wont go to school.  Wont really hustle.  Smokes habitually.  Wont fix or terminate his marriage.  He just "wants his kids."  He's a fool and his kids sense it.  Don't go down that path.


Look around here.  Look how many of us have already, or are currently, going through this shit.

I blame the lack of good games.   why so serious?

This.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?  

addendum:  Penni, if you find all this jibber jabber (from myself or others) in this thread is doing more harm than good please say so and then maybe the thread should be closed.  No advice vs. bad advice and all that.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Nevermore
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Reply #47 on: February 17, 2014, 02:27:47 PM

One of the crueler aspects of depression (at least in my experience) is the anger you have with yourself for being depressed, which just makes you more depressed. It's a tough cycle to break.

This.  10,000x this.

Over and out.
Sir T
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Reply #48 on: February 17, 2014, 02:34:02 PM

Yup.

Be principled, but not too principled.
Pennilenko
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Reply #49 on: February 17, 2014, 03:13:20 PM

addendum:  Penni, if you find all this jibber jabber (from myself or others) in this thread is doing more harm than good please say so and then maybe the thread should be closed.  No advice vs. bad advice and all that.
No, this thread is good, been more effective than two different therapists. I've been able to vent some truth without having another human misinterpret me face to face. This is much better than having another body in front of me spewing platitudes that are mostly meaningless. Hell, I've been coming here for seven years, even if people are different on the internet than in real life, this is the closest thing to a group that I can identify with.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
ghost
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Reply #50 on: February 17, 2014, 07:01:17 PM

Hell, if a therapist can't listen they aren't worth a damn.   Ohhhhh, I see.
Khaldun
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Reply #51 on: February 17, 2014, 07:20:32 PM

I think it's good as long as no one goes zealot.

The thing that is obviously tough for me and anyone else who is on the edge of this is: will I still be me? Whatever I do or get or take? Even a me that is not working is a familiar thing, and often more to the point is sort of working for all the people who at work and life depend upon you. That's why the father-in-law who kills himself is the bad option--you are keeping more going that you could ever imagine, and maybe almost no one knows that the edifice is rotting away inside. But I know I don't want to start anything where I can't save or preserve what I think really does work, and my fear is always that what does work is totally caught up in what is not working. Like a support beam that has a ton of barnacles and worms in it. Don't tell me I can't keep supporting the pier! Heck, I even like some of the worms.
Sjofn
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Reply #52 on: February 18, 2014, 02:16:24 AM

My personal advice would be to focus on the boy as much as you can.

That has been my primary tactic recently, although I need to figure out how to ease the stress of this on my wife. I can tell that she is confused and conflicted; she is running out of patience and understanding. I am not sure how much time I have left to fix everything before there is nothing left.

I obviously do not know anything about your wife, but ... when you say "ease the stress," does that mean she knows, or doesn't Officially Know? If she knows and it's stressing her, there's not much you can do, really, and focusing on getting yourself better will sort of naturally flow into making it better for her as well. But if she doesn't, if you're still walling that off from her, letting her in in the first place will ... well. Ease her stress. Because not only is she seeing you in distress, you're shutting her out of it. She's your partner, man. Let her partner with you on this.

It's tough, I know. I had a hard time finally verbalizing to Ingmar just how shitty I was feeling. You don't want to impose. You don't want them to worry more than they already do. You definitely don't want them to think it's something they did wrong. And so on. But it bothered Ingmar more that he could tell something was really, really wrong but I wouldn't share it with him than it did finally having it confirmed that yeah, I had the Sads. He didn't want to impose either, figuring that telling me he thought I had an issue might make me feel even crappier and push him even further off. So he waited.

And honestly? Telling him helped a ton on the "dealing with it" front.

The thing that is obviously tough for me and anyone else who is on the edge of this is: will I still be me? Whatever I do or get or take? Even a me that is not working is a familiar thing, and often more to the point is sort of working for all the people who at work and life depend upon you. That's why the father-in-law who kills himself is the bad option--you are keeping more going that you could ever imagine, and maybe almost no one knows that the edifice is rotting away inside. But I know I don't want to start anything where I can't save or preserve what I think really does work, and my fear is always that what does work is totally caught up in what is not working. Like a support beam that has a ton of barnacles and worms in it. Don't tell me I can't keep supporting the pier! Heck, I even like some of the worms.

For me, drugs were definitely the best thing for me. Really. I was still me, just ... not so damn depressed all the time. I could sleep! I didn't lie in bed until 4pm, mentally listing all the ways I am worthless! The thought of interacting with people no longer filled me with despair because I'd no longer have to pretend to be a functioning human being for hours! Because ... I actually was a functioning human being! Hooray! Basically all the parts about me I liked? Still around. The parts that weren't so great (you know, the endless, bleak despair)? Much more muted and manageable. It wasn't like being in a fake-happy haze or anything. I'd still get sad over things, but like ... reasonable sad. Not the sort of sad that sits on your chest and makes it impossible to sleep. Just "aw man, bummer :(" sad.

Once we figured out the Pill was what was making me so bad, I didn't need the drugs any more. So that was nice too. But I would absolutely take them again if I thought I needed them, because I felt like me. Just a normal me, instead of a barely-managing-to-trick-people-that-everything-is-fine me.

Er, I hope that didn't sound too preachy or anything.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 02:18:16 AM by Sjofn »

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apocrypha
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Reply #53 on: February 18, 2014, 03:57:05 AM

My life is no harder than so many other people, and they are doing just fine.

That really doesn't matter. You're not living other people's lives and they're not living yours. You can *always* find people both better and worse off than yourself, it has no bearing on how the pressures of your life affect you.

We can't help our feelings and we can't help how we react to things generally. It's not like you choose to be depressed!

Something that's important in counselling is teaching patients tools to deal with their problems. If it's depression then understanding how your brain focusses and reinforces negative feelings and training yourself to stop it from doing that is far more useful than therapy that tries to get to the personal root of your depression.

I apologise for using some jargon here, but cognitive therapy is now regarded as far more useful than Freudian therapy. If your therapy is all about how your mother didn't love you or how a traumatic past event has caused your depression then it's not very likely to work in the long term. However if your therapy is more focussed on teaching you mental skills to combat depression then it's much more likely to be useful in the long term.

Medication and exercise are also being recognised as less effective than previously thought. The research around medication has been badly compromised by drug companies and omission of negative results. The picture surrounding exercise seems to indicate that it can be a bit useful in mild to moderate depression but that it isn't the panacea previously thought.

However, all that said, you have to find what works for YOU. We're all different, we all respond differently to different things. Exercise, sunshine, good diet, good counselling - all of these things are far more likely to help you than harm you. Medication is less clear, I have nothing good to say about it, I've known many people (myself, family members, friends) who've been medicated for depression and it hasn't helped any of them.

The simple fact that you're trying to do something about it is fantastic and is the biggest and most important step to reducing the effect depression has on your life. Keep working at it, be determined that you don't want it to destroy your life and nurture your relationships with friends and family. Good relationships are one of the most powerful defences from depression!

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Lantyssa
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Reply #54 on: February 18, 2014, 08:03:48 AM

Talking about it.  Whether with us, or your wife, or some guy at the bar.  Venting relieves a bit of stress, but think about what you're saying, too.  Compartmentalize the problems into discreet things instead of being one giant over-arching feeling of "I'm being crushed".  (Talking is tough.  I didn't do it in college and suffered most of a decade for it.  I did do it later in adult life and fared so much better.)

(You sound like you're already on the right track.  Maybe you just need some reassurance that you are.)  It's not fun to do, but once you've gotten the problems narrowed down, try focusing on one.  Really consider what your best options are and work towards that.

What I would do was I would get overwhelmed, run from one problem, but smack up against the next.  Then I'd run from it.  Eventually it just turned into a giant ouroboros where one thing chased me to the next.  I just had to start tackling them one by one, making the loop smaller and more manageable.  It's even turned into how I deal with work problems since I have to juggle so many at once.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Ironwood
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Reply #55 on: February 18, 2014, 08:29:40 AM

It's a known symptom of this shit that you cut yourself off socially.

It's one you have to fight and fight and fight.

It's worse on us IT fuckers, because we were probably introverted/arrogant dickholes already.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Amarr HM
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Reply #56 on: February 18, 2014, 09:55:01 AM

First you have my utmost sympathies...

That really doesn't matter. You're not living other people's lives and they're not living yours...

Secondly QFT. Everything apocrypha just said, avoid medication if at all possible. Unless you're genuinely prone to psychotic episodes and wanting to self harm/harm others then stay away from the slippery path of drugs in my opinion.

You may need some marriage counselling too, cause if you feel like your wife will abandon you due to your inability to cope with mental health issues then one or both of you has trust issues.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
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Reply #57 on: February 18, 2014, 03:36:35 PM

stay away from the slippery path of drugs in my opinion.

Probably more important to stay away from telling depressed people who may likely need the drugs that if they end up having to take them, that's just another way they failed.

That may not be what you (and ghost earlier) really mean, but that's how it can come across. It isn't really a slippery slope to anything; if you need them you need them and treating them as some kind of desperate last resort just keeps the people who need them from getting relief they need sooner.

There are times you need to be careful, of course - if someone is suicidal then sometimes the drugs cheer them up just enough that they can get motivated to actually do it, which is a problem - but you know, let the doctors decide that.

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Reply #58 on: February 18, 2014, 03:44:53 PM

It's a long, tough fight. And for a lot of us, it's one you will never "finish". You just learn to cope. Medication is awesome. The sad thing about counseling is that it's expensive, which has always been my hurdle.

But yeah, fuck negativity. I've cut out a tremendous amount of it, except for the F13 part, for whatever reason.

beer geek.
tazelbain
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Reply #59 on: February 18, 2014, 03:49:49 PM

After watching someones life explode like the deathstar after being to convinced to quit their meds because drugs are bad, I am going with drugs are good if you need them and strangers on the internet can't help figure that out. I don't begrudge someone for taking insulin when their liver doesn't function correctly.  Same here.

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Reply #60 on: February 18, 2014, 04:15:23 PM

The issue comes in finding the medication that works for you. I've gone through 5 or 6. The worst made my vision "bounce" all the time. But when you find medication that works, it's like the clouds parting. Seriously.

beer geek.
Amarr HM
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Reply #61 on: February 18, 2014, 05:06:49 PM

Probably more important to stay away from telling depressed people who may likely need the drugs that if they end up having to take them, that's just another way they failed.

Not what I'm saying, I have two relatives who are both clinically depressed, both heavily dependent on masses of medication to the extent they will never lead a healthy self sufficient life. There is nobody telling them if they will ever have a life without being heavily medicated,  it's not the person that has failed, but the system has failed the person.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
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Reply #62 on: February 18, 2014, 05:15:49 PM

My mother has had chronic back pain for years. Her doctor refused to give her opiates "... because she would then have to take them for the rest of her life". That asshole made her suffer for years until she finaly switched doctors. Now she gets decent pain medication and actually feels like life might be worth living again.

If you are sick, take the fucking pills if they help, is what I am getting at. Don't try to tough it out when there is help avaible.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Amarr HM
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Reply #63 on: February 18, 2014, 05:34:12 PM

After watching someones life explode like the deathstar after being to convinced to quit their meds because drugs are bad.

Whoever did that was retarded, takes many months to years to wean patients off anti-depressants, even then it might not work and they could have a psychotic break, relapse. Much less complicated to keep handing out prescription slips.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
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Reply #64 on: February 18, 2014, 05:45:36 PM

There are a vast range of anti-depressants and dosages; you're making it sound like this stuff is heroin which is just not true of a lot of it.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Amarr HM
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Reply #65 on: February 18, 2014, 06:19:20 PM

If you have been taking high enough dosages for long enough then the withdrawals are quite comparable to heroin.

My wife was prescribed xanax when she was post natal and I was happy that helped her cope when things got really bad, in that situation how could we argue but there was always concerns, huge history of depression in both our families. I'm not against the idea, just explore all options before taking that route.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Khaldun
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Reply #66 on: February 18, 2014, 06:24:16 PM

Remember how I said this would be bad if people went zealot? Or even strong categorical opinions?

It is not a good thinking space if you have to start worrying about what other people think rather than feeling it's a good place to think out loud about what you feel or wonder.

Miasma
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Reply #67 on: February 18, 2014, 06:48:00 PM

Probably more important to stay away from telling depressed people who may likely need the drugs that if they end up having to take them, that's just another way they failed.

Not what I'm saying, I have two relatives who are both clinically depressed, both heavily dependent on masses of medication to the extent they will never lead a healthy self sufficient life. There is nobody telling them if they will ever have a life without being heavily medicated,  it's not the person that has failed, but the system has failed the person.
So you're blaming the medication not the disease.  Idiotic.
Amarr HM
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Reply #68 on: February 18, 2014, 07:14:44 PM

Don't be a prick, I'm blaming the system for not providing clinically depressed people with the faculties to get back on track after 10-30 years of the same wash rinse repeat of being institutionalized while changing medication, because the one they've been on for the last X years has stopped working and caused a relapse. The only given solution is to higher the dose or switch medications.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Miasma
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Posts: 5282

Stopgap Measure


Reply #69 on: February 18, 2014, 07:33:45 PM

So you're blaming the system for not having a cure to a complicated disease.  Still absurd.  The "system" didn't make your relatives clinically depressed, it doesn't have a cure, all it can do is help people cope.
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