NFL 2014

[Johny Cee]

I am late to this thread but that is all the fault of the kicking dummy.  It looks like he went down on his knees to give Brown a BJ or something.  Who goes down on their knees in front of a NFL WR with the ball?

Honestly, it starts out looking like text book high school tackling...  break down and go low for the legs.  The punter then tries to straighten back up when the receiver is jumping, but he's slow and just fucks up his center of balance.

He still slowed the runner enough for his team to get the tackle a few yards later.  It looks embarrassing but he probably saved his team another 10+ yards, as he was the last Brown there and the runner had blockers ahead. 

[Mithas]

Aren't punters taught to just go for the legs if they have to try to make a tackle?

He's a punter. They will never be adept tacklers. Unless you are this guy:

[Cyrrex]

He didn't save 10 yards, he saved a sure touchdown.  His nearest pursuit was 3 yards off or so.

[Cyrrex]

Also, I am glad that the Ravens finally noticed that his YPC were way way down decided that Ray Rice should be cut due to the fact that he could no longer break tackles or move laterally enjoys hitting women.

[MediumHigh]

Uh, he was arrested.  He went into an intervention program which is something courts have set up for domestic violence prevention. It's basically pleading guilty.  Completely separate from your idiotic victim-blaming, you are just factually way off-base.

One. Never said he was in the right or it was "explainable". Two if I cold clocked my wife and dragged her off I wouldn't get processed for "domestic violence prevention". Not even Chris Brown got away scott free (well he practically did) with monkey stomping whats her names face. Third this is several months after the fact, no western court system would have let a wife beater walk around you know potentially beating his wife if thats what the evidence suggested. So my reaction is, "Whatever they had on him didn't merit any significant legal consequences so kicking him out the ravens barely hits what probably should have happened for anyone who isn't ray rice."

[K9]

From Deadspin

Whose Idiotic Ray Rice Comments Look Especially Awful Today?

[Cyrrex]

Uh, he was arrested.  He went into an intervention program which is something courts have set up for domestic violence prevention. It's basically pleading guilty.  Completely separate from your idiotic victim-blaming, you are just factually way off-base.

One. Never said he was in the right or it was "explainable". Two if I cold clocked my wife and dragged her off I wouldn't get processed for "domestic violence prevention". Not even Chris Brown got away scott free (well he practically did) with monkey stomping whats her names face. Third this is several months after the fact, no western court system would have let a wife beater walk around you know potentially beating his wife if thats what the evidence suggested. So my reaction is, "Whatever they had on him didn't merit any significant legal consequences so kicking him out the ravens barely hits what probably should have happened for anyone who isn't ray rice."

Wut.

Whatever they had on him didn't merit any signifi....wut?

They have and always have had video tape evidence of him knocking out his wife.  There was never a lack of evidence, it was a lack of desire to prosecute.

[Mithas]

Wow did the Giants ever look inept last night.

[Paelos]

Gooddell has to go. There's no way the NFL can make me believe they didn't see that tape, and then subsequently tried to squash the investigation by any means they could while burying the evidence.

[HaemishM]

Gooddell has to go. There's no way the NFL can make me believe they didn't see that tape, and then subsequently tried to squash the investigation by any means they could while burying the evidence.

The NFL is claiming they asked the New Jersey State Police for all evidence, and the NJSP is claiming they didn't have the tape because Atlantic City Police had it. Somebody's probably lying but it really doesn't matter. The video is fucking disturbing and should disgust anyone who sees it. But what did people think happened in that elevator? That he tapped her and she swooned? HE KNOCKED HER OUT, THEN DRAGGED HER BODY OUT OF THE ELEVATOR LIKE A SACK OF RICE. The problem the NFL is having is both their reactions and that of the Ravens in this whole thing have taken the stance of "what happened in that elevator was bad, but it wasn't THAT bad." Which is fucking bonkers because HE KNOCKED HER OUT. Their reaction has been all along one of apologizing for his behavior as a way of diminishing the disgusting nature of it. The only time they've really acted is when the public has castigated them for it. And that's wrong. I believe Goodell should be gone for no other reason than if none of the videos had been released, Rice's two game suspension would have been it, and they'd have been reluctant to do that. Most of the ESPN pundits last night were trying to soft sell or backpedal on how bad this has been for the NFL (got to give Schefter credit - he and Olberman are the only two I've seen who appear really fucking pissed off about this thing).

In actual football talk, though... HOLY FUCK THE GIANTS ARE GODDAMN TERRIBLE. The pundits need to calm down on how good the Lions are because they are not. They are sloppy as shit, and still can't control themselves worth a fuck. They had 8 penalties before the first half was over. The Lions beat the shit out of a crippled, really bad, really inept team. Ben Mcadoo got a job based on Aaron Rodgers' good performances but that doesn't mean he knows how to teach a system to a team. The wide receivers for the Giants looks utterly lost, when they weren't dropping balls that hit them right on the hands. Manning looked lost as well. They can't run the ball for shit, their O line is a turnstile at Grand Central and their DB's don't know how to cover. The only positive for the Giants was their D line actually pressured the QB and stopped the run. Once the ball got past the line of scrimmage, game over.

Arizona and San Diego both look like what we probably expected. These will be the 2 best 8-10 win teams that probably won't make the playoffs without luck because of the division they play in. Arizona sure as shit likes to bring 5 and 6 man pass rushes. Both sides had good line play on the defense.

I have to keep complaining about the flags though. San Diego almost won that game based on 1 penalty - the defensive holding call that wiped out the interception in the 4th. That was yet another Mickey Mouse nothing call that shouldn't even be in the rule book and it almost caused Arizona to lose the game. I realize that, by the letter of the law, that was a holding penalty. That's the problem - a good play like that shouldn't be wiped out by a penalty. They might as well just make rules that say "You must let the receiver catch the ball." Make it like catching a punt. The receiver can't be interfered with it any way until they secure a catch. That may not be the intent of the rules, but that's what is happening in practice.

[Paelos]

It's not worth putting up with all this atm, I think. The lying, the money grubbing, the flags, the scandals, I've just got better things to spend my time on when it comes to Sundays.

[Shannow]

Gooddell has to go. There's no way the NFL can make me believe they didn't see that tape, and then subsequently tried to squash the investigation by any means they could while burying the evidence.

Article on Grantland, you know Ray Rice isn't the only guy who beat up his wife/gf/fiance who played on Sunday. Seriously fuck the NFL.

[Paelos]

Yeah I think I'm done this year unless Gooddell leaves. I love this sport, but I'm done with what it's becoming. He needs to step down or be forced out, and I'm not watching this year while he's still in charge.

[Ingmar]

I was boycotting the NFL before it was cool. 

Seriously though, I'm not even sure firing Gooddell is going to be enough for me. The entire league is so laden with issues of all kinds, all stemming from overwhelming greed, that I can't get lost in just watching a game for what it is anymore.

[Trippy]

The Ray McDonald thing is disappointing. Steve Young called them out for letting him play.

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/9258/steve-young-playing-mcdonald-a-poor-call

[Abagadro]

Uh, he was arrested.  He went into an intervention program which is something courts have set up for domestic violence prevention. It's basically pleading guilty.  Completely separate from your idiotic victim-blaming, you are just factually way off-base.

One. Never said he was in the right or it was "explainable". Two if I cold clocked my wife and dragged her off I wouldn't get processed for "domestic violence prevention". Not even Chris Brown got away scott free (well he practically did) with monkey stomping whats her names face. Third this is several months after the fact, no western court system would have let a wife beater walk around you know potentially beating his wife if thats what the evidence suggested. So my reaction is, "Whatever they had on him didn't merit any significant legal consequences so kicking him out the ravens barely hits what probably should have happened for anyone who isn't ray rice."

You've strung some words together here but they make absolutely no sense.

1. He was arrested and charged with simple assault based upon the initial police report.
2. Video of the incident was later viewed by investigators.
3. The DA upgraded the charge to Aggravated Assault.
4. He entered into what is known as a "diversionary program" which is something courts set up for first time offenders. It's similar to a plea in abeyance but with strings attached. You basically plead guilty, go do some stuff (usually anger management/domestic violence prevention classes, etc.) and if you don't get in trouble after a certain amount of time the charge is expunged.
5. All of this completely undermines your bizarre assertion that he "wasn't even arrested."
6. You are a clueless nitwit.

[Paelos]

No no, I enjoy watching a moron tell a lawyer he's wrong about the legal process. This is a nice diversion from me bitching about boycotts.

[shiznitz]

I've just got better things to spend my time on when it comes to Sundays.

You must be single.  I am married with kids.  Football on Sundays is a godsend.

[Paelos]

Source is coming out that the NFL had the tape 3 months ago, and that a law enforcement official sent it to an NFL exec.

I mean holy shit, don't people realize the coverup is worse than the truth? I hope they bury Gooddell for this.

[Mithas]

I knew that was coming eventually. I assume Goodell is out after all this?

[HaemishM]

The NFL sent a letter to the owners saying that they'd requested the tape and were told no by all parties involved, and that the casino legally couldn't give it to them.

The NFL apologists and defenders are out in force on this one.

[Paelos]

Fuck the NFL. Seriously. Fuck them.

They are arrogant dickbags and they need to clean house on the front office. Starting with Gooddell. You can't fire the owners, but you sure as shit can get rid of the people that fucked this up.

[Cyrrex]

At the risk of stirring up an unintentional shitstorm, I am simultaneously amused and frustrated by the fervor the Ray Rice video is causing.  I know I am not the only one, but it seems like there is this strange bandwagon that everyone is jumping on an manufacturing faux outrage.

Before I go on, let me be clear, and please don't forget this when you respond:  I think Ray Rice is a worthless fuck of a human being and am totally behind his suspension and wouldn't mind a permanent ban either.  So this post is not about what he did, exactly. 

The part I cannot wrap my head around is how this video made anything worse an anybody's mind.  We already know he knocked her senseless.  That was a fact on record.  We even saw him drag her out of the elevator like a sack of grain or something (to me, somehow the more disturbing part as it just showed a total disregard).  We also know that there are a handful of other current cases on record in the NFL of domestic violence, and it is fair to assume that some kind of punching is involved in those as well.  Yet we somehow went from thinking that Ray's 2 week suspension was not harsh enough, and our anger was somewhere around a 6 or 7 on the Outrage Scale.  Then we heard the NFL was going to crack down harder on stuff like this, and issued a harsher policy.  Although there was no reason to think at the time that Ray Rice was going to get a stiffer punishment as a result, our Outrage Scale number dropped down to a 5, collectively.  I mean, future lady sluggers were going to get their just desserts, so that was progress at least.  Then just days later, the video drops and somehow we go straight up to 10.  The shitstorm around this video is really quite epic.

So why did it change?  I saw the video, and to be honest, despite the dire warnings of ridiculously graphic violence...it was actually the very bare minimum of what I expected to see.  My mind actually pictured something far more graphic and I fully expected to see a more thorough beating, maybe him holding her down and delivering repeated blows.  In fact, the reaction to this whole thing is so utterly huge and without precedent, you'd think that's exactly what he did.  Does it make him more or less guilty either way?  Absolutely, 100% not at all.  Good riddance to the piece of shit.

But I still cannot figure out how the general public (and honestly, several of you here) has become orders of magnitude more outraged than you already were.  And you are, no reason to deny it.  Is it just because seeing the video makes it more real to you?  Is it more violent than you expected (how can it possibly be?)?  It feels like Faux anger.

And I will say it a third time for those of you who will try to ignore it:  I am totally fine with the punishment meted out.  I would have been fine with it before the video, and I am equally fine with it now.  I'd be fine if the Niners do the same to Ray McDonald right now.  But I suppose we don't have a video of that one, so I guess we aren't mad enough yet.

Last but not least, what the fuck is it with people named Ray?

[Malakili]

Is it just because seeing the video makes it more real to you? 

I think a lot of it is this one.

But I also think, and I don't necessarily think anyone in this thread thought this, that a lot of people bought into the idea that she somehow provoked him and/or had struck him and that she was somehow at fault or partially at fault. The video clearly shows that there was no physical provocation at all.

Now. The problem is it doesn't matter whether she did or not, but to a lot of people think it does matter. 

[Mithas]

I am no more or less outraged at Ray Rice. Everybody knew he knocked her out cold. The thing that really pisses me off is that the NFL totally botched this and then on top of it tried to cover it up. The NFL/Goodell think they are above reproach. There are a lot of decisions the NFL has made in recent years that have made a lot of fans (or former fans) really angry. It is just a culmination of that.

[Paelos]

I am no more or less outraged at Ray Rice. Everybody knew he knocked her out cold. The thing that really pisses me off is that the NFL totally botched this and then on top of it tried to cover it up. The NFL/Goodell think they are above reproach. There are a lot of decisions the NFL has made in recent years that have made a lot of fans (or former fans) really angry. It is just a culmination of that.

Agreed, for me it's not about what's on the tape. It's how the NFL has used every opportunity to ignore it, and then cover it up. I think Ray should be in jail, but that's a legal problem and something the NFL may have influenced as well with their overreach.

[HaemishM]

But I still cannot figure out how the general public (and honestly, several of you here) has become orders of magnitude more outraged than you already were.  And you are, no reason to deny it.  Is it just because seeing the video makes it more real to you? 

It's this. The video made it more real. It shouldn't have but that's the absolute truth. I mean, this isn't the first domestic violence case in the NFL. There have been over 50 since Goddell took over in 2006 according to ESPN First Take this morning. That's over 50 before we even saw the first video. Yet that first video was the only one that really caused any sort of public shitstorm. The first out of 50 in 8 years to cause any sort of public reaction. Why? Because the other 50 didn't have any video evidence. And some of them I'd wager were a lot worse. There wasn't any sort of outrage over the other 50 when those punishments were meted out. None at all.

Having the video DOES make it more real for most people. ABSOLUTELY. And as bad as that first video was, the second made it worse because you didn't know what happened in the elevator after the first. You thought that "well maybe she was beating the shit out of him, since she stuck with him and there was talk of her giving it to him." The elevator video made it pretty crystal clear that there wasn't none of that. It removed all doubt.

It's one thing to hear about domestic violence (since we could have heard about 50 other cases). It's another thing entirely to see it and that's where the outrage is coming. Because you can't deny it, you can't excuse it, you can't hedge your bets on it. If you start saying shit like "maybe she egged it on" you look like a fucking asshole.

[Hoax]

I think partially the NFL really stepped on a landmine here because of the timing.

Both sides of the political spectrum can be seen throwing the "war on women" shit around relating to pretty much any news story if you read the comments. Which means all the partisans in America (~54% of us?) have been thinking more about how women get screwed over than usual. Not for good reasons but still its been on their minds. I like to think that deep down just about everyone feels a little personal guilt or bleeding heart guilt or both about women's issues that's been building for awhile now thanks to all sorts of events.

So along comes Ray Rice. Yes lots of domestic violence before but without a video they were just words on a page with zero detail. We've never had an NFL player attack chronicled the way Chris Brown's was for instance that I can recall. And my outrage was at a solid 10 when I read that police report. No video required. I still wouldn't piss on Chris Brown if he was on fire. Also Chris Brown did way way way way fucking worse. For the record. Nobody in his industry did a goddamn thing. So hats off to the nfl.

Additionally this time around, despite the evidence which made us all 100% sure this was really bad even when we had only seen the aftermath the punishment from every outlet was super lenient. At the time you had most of ESPN and most commentators believing that if the legal system was just putting him in diversion then it must mean she started it, she was attacking him, sptting on him, etc. and in the moment he knocked her out but he's really sorry.

The league, his team, his coach, other players and sports media all stood up for him and reminded us how much we love Ray Rice. Many people inferred that what he did must not be all bad from that overwhelmingly supportive response.

Then the video drops and the obvious thing from it is he didn't give a fuck how bad she was hurt. Her limp body was just an inconvenience to be dealt with with the minimal amount of effort. So now on top of that guilt from just the way things have been trending you have A TON of people feeling guilty for believing that Rice must not have done anything too bad or he'd be facing trial, or the nfl would give him a real suspension, or else the Ravens wouldn't tweet his wife's apology, or this girl wouldn't marry him, etc. etc. etc.

If the outrage is partially fake its mainly that people feel they need to make up for being so quick to let Rice off the hook back when this first came out.

[HaemishM]

Hearing about a women getting beat on by a man is one thing. We hear it all the time. It really isn't real to us, I think, unless it's someone in our immediate circle. Seeing it, even something as innocuous as Rice's hit (compared to most domestic violence which can get WAY WAY WORSE), makes it real in a way that words just couldn't. It's the same reason the Chris Brown/Rhianna thing stirred up so much because we saw the effects. WE SAW IT. The visual evidence removed the wiggle room our brains have for processing shit we just don't want to think about. And while it's really sad that it takes seeing it to actually give a real shit about it (because we've been hearing about domestic violence for decades), at least now maybe something can be done about it.

[Ingmar]

I get the point you are trying to make, Haemish, but man, innocuous was not the right word to use.

[Hoax]

No for real, it was open hand (at least that's what I told myself I saw) and if she hadn't been inside an elevator and flown into a metal bar that KTFO'd her might this have been a pretty minor event? I'm no expert so I can't say how hard or not hard he hit her, looked pretty hard but a slap is still a slap and its nothing compared to choking someone, throwing someone into things, picking them up and slamming them, using an object, closed fists, kicking someone, and all of those things have been done surely by nfl players to women at one point or another.

If Ray Rice had immediately reacted as if he was mortified and fearful for her health and safety. If all you could see after he did it was remorse. I think none of this outrage gets so heated. Its that he hit her, she hit her head, she went out cold, and he didn't give even the smallest suggestion that he gave a fuck about it that makes it so galling.

Its nothing at all compared to what was done to Rhianna, nothing at all compared to what was done to Christy Mack and it certainly was far far away from the worst attack by an athlete on a woman.

Reprehensible assault and against the old rule of don't hit women? Yes. Some brutal beating that indicates someone is an inhuman monster beyond saving? Not really no. Its not the attack that makes you wonder about him so much as his response to the damage he caused.

[Paelos]

The argument boils down to should the video have mattered to people. No, it shouldn't.

But you're living in a fantasy land if you don't think that people actually seeing a crime happen make it more real. Hearing about a guy getting beheaded isn't the same thing to a person as watching it happen. It removes the human mental ability to dismiss something.

Honestly, I don't think other cases matter in this problem. I don't really even think it's actually ABOUT Rice anymore. It's about how the NFL went to every length they could to deny, ignore, dismiss, and then subsequently lie about all the events in question. They've made a huge deal about trying to attract female fans, and they've said they are against domestic violence, yet they got caught basically doing what they always do for big-time players. They tried to make it go away.

What the tape did was remind everyone that the NFL has a shitty track record on stuff like this. Big Ben ring any bells? Tapes go suddenly missing from a night club that just happened to get taped over? Can you imagine if that hits the public with him committing a sexual assault, and that the NFL tried to have it erased? I still think they DID have it erased and got away with it. That's what led to the hubris of this case. They believe they can squash anything. It's horrifying and needs to be stopped.

[Nebu]

Yet another reason why I love the Onion.

[HaemishM]

I get the point you are trying to make, Haemish, but man, innocuous was not the right word to use.

I think that it's the perfect word because compared to SOME domestic violence cases... shit, this was NOTHING. Some women get the ever living fuck beat out of them, and you and I both know it. Rhianna for instance - Chris Brown fucking destroyed her.

If something as minor IN COMPARISON can get people up in arms, GOOD. Because people need to wake the fuck up about it. I mean, I think Rice is a total piece of shit over this but compared to say Greg Hardy's case, he's a goddamn CHOIR BOY. Hardy slammed his girlfriend's head into a toilet, threatened to kill her and threw her onto a bed of assault rifles and shotguns. And almost nobody said SHIT about that case including NOW or any of the other women's advocacy groups because there was no video. That's fucked up.

[Cyrrex]

Thanks for the level-headed responses.  I guess it didn't increase or decrease my outrage either way, so it was hard to understand.  I still think it's a bit strange, but at least I have my explanation.

And yeah, on the female punching scale of 1 to 10, where even a 1 makes you a criminal and a dickwad, this was pretty innocuous.  I guess that's part of what makes me scratch my head when I get the warnings of "EXTREMELY GRAPHIC VIOLENCE WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK".