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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: EQ Next Landmark - It's Like Minecraft But Not™ 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: EQ Next Landmark - It's Like Minecraft But Not™  (Read 57654 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #980 on: June 02, 2016, 11:12:15 AM

Is this still going to be F2P or would I have to buy something? Not like I'll probably ever log in even if it is F2P but just curious.

Sky
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Reply #981 on: June 02, 2016, 11:50:12 AM

I believe so. $10 buy-in but no sub.

HaemishM
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Reply #982 on: June 02, 2016, 12:28:06 PM

#notworththe$10

Venkman
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Reply #983 on: June 02, 2016, 06:56:16 PM

Are they honoring pre-orders from early last year or wheneverthehellitwas?
Sky
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Reply #984 on: June 02, 2016, 08:13:22 PM

Are they honoring pre-orders from early last year or wheneverthehellitwas?
Yes.

taolurker
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Reply #985 on: June 02, 2016, 08:47:22 PM

The trailblazer pack (the $100 one) has the head start, and the other 2 packs (explorer and Founder/Settler) get in without needing to pay the $10. Anyone using a free beta key (including the hundreds of alts everyone had >even those with $ purchases) will need to pay $10. They are still selling the damn packs tho, right up until the "launch".

#notworththe$10
This EXACTLY..

They changed so many things, and broke so many things that worked fine. The build system is now totally redone (again), to now include a useless and clunky window that takes 1/3 to 1/2 of your screen. Also while doing this they broke the paste rotate, the smooth now leaves strange dents, textures don't blend like they used to, and paint still somehow paints through things.

They also simplified things again, removing the 3rd attack on weapons (now only 2 attacks), no more multi level caves, and all manner of silly decisions (plant harvesting removed? no upgrades for anything? everything built on 1 machine? no Pvp claims anymore?) but hey now you can drop mobs onto claims, while giving them dialogs.

My guess would be they sell nearly nothing, and further prove this was a bad experiemnt.. especially since no one is aware it existed after EQN died (and they haven't added launch info to their main pages even after announcing it).

I expect them to close it as "not worth the overall bandwidth costs to maintain" by August.


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Wasted
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Reply #986 on: June 03, 2016, 01:41:40 AM

With all the stuff they added is there an actual game worth playing now?  I got all excited for this game in the first week but all the resource harvesting very quickly bored the living fuck out of me and I couldn't enjoy the building part of it at all.  I haven't seen the fighting or caves or anything like that at all.  I wouldn't care now except I did waste $100 on that stupid trailblazers pack which I'm kicking myself for now, so I guess I should give it a go but I'm really having trouble motivating myself to care.
taolurker
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Reply #987 on: June 03, 2016, 02:23:35 AM

Part of their way to eliminate the "harvesting" was to make most of the "dirt" materials free... So, in some cases your harvesting might be lessened, but you still will need to harvest a LOT and now you'll need to avoid monsters while doing it (or end up doing the repetitive and boring 2 attacks).
They added hundreds of "claim monsters" you can place, but there are still only 4 "in the world" monsters, and you can only get recipes or "essence" to make your own monsters by going out grinding mobs, harvesting or finding chests in caves (and of course spending real money). You also will need to find recipes (or buy them) for like 70-80% of the props or items in game, meaning essentially they are forcing everyone into a pale, broken, grind in order to build anything. There also still isn't any "economy" so making a site isn't rewarding to the builder, and there's no value for anything (or ability to trade) making it all a weak repetitive grind or grab for cash.

The only real way to see how bad caves and combat are (plus the build UI /facepalm) is to see for yourself. If you have trailblazer (or any pack) you can log in now. The wipe is happening the 7th, with early access on the 8th.


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Falconeer
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Reply #988 on: June 03, 2016, 03:21:05 AM

It is totally worth the 10$ if you like to build stuff. There are many many arguments on why this failed and why this doesn't have longevity and all. All valid. But if you like to build, and you would enjoy building somethng truly beautiful and amazing and looking way better than anything you can build with any other building game out there, for 10$ that's a good deal.

Is there a "game"? Nope, they still didn't make the game no. But if you like to build, see your stuff coming along and take a lot of screenshot of it and walk in and out of it and all that stuff, and you would like to try something that doesn't look that blocky, I can't see what's wrong with 10$.

THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF HOW COOL AND GREAT THIS GAME IS. EQ Landmark is one of the biggest wasted opportunities I can think of. It is just a testament of how powerful and pretty the building tool is compared to other things on the market. And for 10$.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 03:22:49 AM by Falconeer »

Sky
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Reply #989 on: June 03, 2016, 09:18:29 AM

What Falc said.

Also, the biggest negative voice in this conversation has a screenshot of this game as his avatard, so grains of salt must be taken.

 why so serious?

HaemishM
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Reply #990 on: June 03, 2016, 09:53:10 AM

I like to build. What I don't like is standing with my avatar facing the crowd, holding down or clicking the mouse button 3 bazillion motherfucking times just to get enough materials to build 1/4 of the vision in my head. The harvesting bullshit absolutely ruined this game in beta for me, and this was a long while back. If you want me to build, give me the goddamn components, don't make me spend 90% of the time in-game as Dig Dug.

Sky
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Reply #991 on: June 03, 2016, 09:58:27 AM

I like to build. What I don't like is standing with my avatar facing the crowd, holding down or clicking the mouse button 3 bazillion motherfucking times just to get enough materials to build 1/4 of the vision in my head. The harvesting bullshit absolutely ruined this game in beta for me, and this was a long while back. If you want me to build, give me the goddamn components, don't make me spend 90% of the time in-game as Dig Dug.
This is why we have quarries and mining lasers in minecraft. You get some of the game portion of early resource collection without being stuck doing it forever.

Wasted
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Reply #992 on: June 03, 2016, 07:08:35 PM

The thing is in minecraft, because you are always interacting with the world, I often do like the digging part.  It's often dual purpose, you need some stone for a wall so you are also mining a tunnel through a mountain.  The landscaping can be as rewarding as the building.  Just endlessly hunting out respawning nodes in a mostly unchanging world to fulfil someone's ideal that you did enough work to earn the materials was simple time wasting nonsense.
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Reply #993 on: June 06, 2016, 05:49:50 AM

They always seemed uncertain whether they were creating a building tool some sort of adventure game and it's become even more confused because of the game's unfortunate history.
Sky
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Reply #994 on: June 06, 2016, 06:22:56 AM

I guess I uninstalled this at some point. Couldn't muster the giveashititude to install it.

Installed a new HQM instead.

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Reply #995 on: June 06, 2016, 08:09:55 AM

They always seemed uncertain whether they were creating a building tool some sort of adventure game and it's become even more confused because of the game's unfortunate history.

That's exactly the problem. When first announced Landmark was going to be the building tool for EQNext. There weren't conversations about mobs, fighting, etc. You were just going to be able to play with the build tools and the community/ devs would vote the best content into the EQNext engine. Crowdsourcing modeling for their RPG.

Then people got antsy, wanting more of the EQ features to be pulled into Next. The devs apparently thought, "Well it's the same game engine so why not."  Well, how about because 1) Then you're competing against the main event. 2) You're incorporating more grind into a game where people want to build 3) Builders generally don't want to fuck with combat shit. They want to build.

Even after grudgingly accepting the early beta was good, they quickly went down the road I expected and fucked it all up. That's before you include the monetization aspect that got in the way quickly as well. "Oh, let's add rare mats that people have to grind for or can purchase instead."

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Sky
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Reply #996 on: June 06, 2016, 08:52:08 AM

There's your official f13 review afaiac.

Venkman
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Reply #997 on: June 06, 2016, 06:18:23 PM

Then people got antsy, wanting more of the EQ features to be pulled into Next. The devs apparently thought, "Well it's the same game engine so why not."  Well, how about because 1) Then you're competing against the main event. 2) You're incorporating more grind into a game where people want to build 3) Builders generally don't want to fuck with combat shit. They want to build.

Was this the reason? I had suspected they realized their development run rate exceeded their budget, the brand was in decline, and they realized their shareholders wouldn't support two major launches over a 5-ish year time horizon with a lot of "maybes" attached to success.
taolurker
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Reply #998 on: June 07, 2016, 11:18:42 AM

So, the servers were just taken down for the final time during Beta, with the accompanying wipe.

Firstly, I'd like to respond to this from Sky
Also, the biggest negative voice in this conversation has a screenshot of this game as his avatard, so grains of salt must be taken.
As one of the ONLY people here who still even OPENs this game, I came back to the thread to detail many of the "changes" and honestly since I was there seeing things get fixed only to be broken again (along with all the bad decisions) why wouldn't I come here with negativity? I was trying to help them improve this game, and I have the image as an avatar not because of the game but because it's things I built. The game itself IS horribly broken, and it would only take a returning player 4 minutes in game to say OMFG what did they do.. 


Then to Merusk's "review" which was applauded, there's literally NONE of it that's factually correct..:
That's exactly the problem. When first announced Landmark was going to be the building tool for EQNext. There weren't conversations about mobs, fighting, etc. You were just going to be able to play with the build tools and the community/ devs would vote the best content into the EQNext engine. Crowdsourcing modeling for their RPG.
See now, this is completely incorrect. The game was always about harvesting and building, yes, but combat was not added because of the community, instead it was more they wanted to "test" their EQN systems. Landmark was going to be crowdsourcing assets from players, but it also was a way for them to do their combat iterations for EQN, which was why these (and caves/layers or weapon/tool augments) were added.
Quote
Then people got antsy, wanting more of the EQ features to be pulled into Next. The devs apparently thought, "Well it's the same game engine so why not."  Well, how about because 1) Then you're competing against the main event. 2) You're incorporating more grind into a game where people want to build 3) Builders generally don't want to fuck with combat shit. They want to build.
Again none of this was about players requesting it.. combat was all an SOE/Daybreak decision.

1) They added features into Landmark under the guise of "testing" them for EQN. Some of these were also later removed from Landmark and still have not appeared again even after both beta wipes. These competing with EQN was never a concern for them, and actually if they did anything wrong it was NOT COMPLETING IT..  and the only competition was instead for developer time (even moreso after being sold from Sony) . Them deciding mid way through (after buyout and Daybreak name) to shift solely to EQN was where Landmark suffered..  They began ignoring bugs and issues in their testing platform (Landmark), even saying they were "focusing on EQN instead of Landmark" when they removed the LM blueprint and saying directly that "bugs that aren't game breaking are going to be on the back burner in light of the shift to EQN".

2) The grind was NOT something incorporated into the game, it was always there from the beginning of Landmark. If anything they attempted to lessen some parts of the grind, breaking quite a few things in the process, and then came up with even more grinds to replace them (to try bolstering cash shop sales).

3) The building part of the game was why I was there, and I'll give you this builders are not primarily there for combat... BUT they did want people to have other things to do, they intended to allow "mobs/NPCs" with story tools for the builds, and they also wanted to expand LM to be more attractive to non builders. It sharing a code base and being a test for EQN, also was likely behind these decisions. The main problem is they never made any overlap to integrate these correctly into Landmark (no economy.. no payoff for building.. nothing to trade in exchange for harvesting).

I like to build. What I don't like is standing with my avatar facing the crowd, holding down or clicking the mouse button 3 bazillion motherfucking times just to get enough materials to build 1/4 of the vision in my head. The harvesting bullshit absolutely ruined this game in beta for me, and this was a long while back. If you want me to build, give me the goddamn components, don't make me spend 90% of the time in-game as Dig Dug.
This is why we have quarries and mining lasers in minecraft. You get some of the game portion of early resource collection without being stuck doing it forever.
As I said before up thread, they did change it so some of the build materials were "free", but it mostly only eliminated you mining for dirt/stone... All the other materials still needed to be harvested, and then last May they changed some materials into "composites" meaning you needed 2 kinds of lesser resources to make higher ones (effectively doubling the grind back again).

BTW They also added a new "pulverizer" that mines materials (instead of just stripping them without anything in return) this March, for the second beta wipe...

As the only person here who was following nearly every change in this game for the past 2 years (while some of you thought it was already gone), I also stand by my assessments and overall negativity, plus will also say that my and the remaining Landmark playerbase will also echo nearly all of my sentiments. I do agree with most of you about the "wasted potential", but still might use the building tools once I learn the key bindings ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH A THIRD TIME.


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Sky
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Reply #999 on: June 07, 2016, 11:34:44 AM

Lighten up, Francis.

Ginaz
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Reply #1000 on: June 13, 2016, 01:49:27 PM


I'll pre order you SWTOR if you let me put my lightsaber in your sarlaac cave
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HaemishM
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Reply #1001 on: June 13, 2016, 02:55:49 PM

Wow - 125 users on Steam with over 2000 negative reviews, while WILDSTAR of all things is getting positive reviews.

Ginaz
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Reply #1002 on: June 13, 2016, 10:54:24 PM

Wow - 125 users on Steam with over 2000 negative reviews, while WILDSTAR of all things is getting positive reviews.

The Wildstar thing is because a lot of people who already play are playing through Steam just to give it good reviews and make it look more popular than it is.  The White Knight Brigade.

I'll pre order you SWTOR if you let me put my lightsaber in your sarlaac cave
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Gimfain
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Reply #1003 on: June 14, 2016, 04:46:12 AM

Wow - 125 users on Steam with over 2000 negative reviews, while WILDSTAR of all things is getting positive reviews.

The Wildstar thing is because a lot of people who already play are playing through Steam just to give it good reviews and make it look more popular than it is.  The White Knight Brigade.
You don't get 80% positive out of 1k reviews because of white knights. Indie titles are far more prone to that sort of manipulation.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 04:49:38 AM by Gimfain »

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Sky
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Reply #1004 on: June 14, 2016, 06:11:35 AM

Sure you do.

I forgot to install this. First thing I installed on my fresh W10 install was....minecraft. That game is like a fucking sword in the stone.

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Reply #1005 on: June 14, 2016, 07:16:58 AM

Hex tried to do that and it didn't work out; even with fanbois spamming reviews I think they're below 70% positive.

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Reply #1006 on: June 14, 2016, 07:29:03 AM

Wow - 125 users on Steam with over 2000 negative reviews, while WILDSTAR of all things is getting positive reviews.

Let's not pretend that a lot of the salt isn't because it's an old SOE game. SOE was fucked by their rep. Daybreak was fucked by buying that rep without realizing it. The failures to deliver have only piled on that already high mound of shit.

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Sky
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Reply #1007 on: June 14, 2016, 08:24:52 AM

EQ is a tainted IP, as well. You only have a rabid niche, if someone likes EQ, they're probably playing EQ and not interested in a new game that isn't a kick in the nuts.

Mandella
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Reply #1008 on: June 14, 2016, 09:18:39 AM

MMO's are weird in that even in a "failed" game there can be tens of thousands (or even hundreds, in some cases) of players still regularly playing and having fun. They also self select toward fanboys and trolls, at least as far as the forums go.

Doesn't Wildstar still have a pretty loyal playerbase, even if not the size that the company once hoped?
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Reply #1009 on: June 14, 2016, 12:14:22 PM

I thought that Wildstar was over or something.  Where the hell do I get my information?  I swear, I make it up.   ACK!

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Mandella
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Reply #1010 on: June 14, 2016, 12:45:37 PM

I thought that Wildstar was over or something.  Where the hell do I get my information?  I swear, I make it up.   ACK!

They laid off a bunch of people in March last year, so according to the internet it would be totally shut down within two months, tops.

Yeah it's still running. So's TSW, for what it's worth (only mentioned because every couple of years when all their loans come due various folks on the internet make the assumption that the axe is surely falling on Funcom and all their games -- they miss the fact that their major investor is just one guy who just keeps extending the loan).

The funny thing is that when the axe does fall, it often falls with little notice and for little reason (City of Heroes, anyone?).

EDIT:  Just to be clear, yes I know Funcom does not run Wildstar. I was going off on a tangent of generalities.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 12:48:54 PM by Mandella »
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Reply #1011 on: June 14, 2016, 07:20:10 PM

Funcom may be ok for a little while longer.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #1012 on: July 04, 2016, 03:12:51 PM


I vaguely recall reading that Funcom had recent financial issues that risked closing the company but secured the support they needed... somehow. The secret world remains a game concept I love, a world I'd like to explore, but keep getting bored of when I try.

I'm not even sure EQ is tainted IP these days. I think that would be granting it more power than it has.

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Reply #1013 on: July 13, 2016, 12:50:25 PM

Here's a video of one of their first "real" dungeons.

https://www.twitch.tv/landmarkgame/v/77859662

Ginaz
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Reply #1014 on: January 05, 2017, 08:30:31 PM

And another one bites the dust.  Not like we didn't see this coming.

"To the Landmark community,

With heavy hearts, we are writing today to inform you that after much review, we have decided to close Landmark game servers on February 21, 2017.

Since Landmark first entered Alpha, we have been impressed by the creative talents in this community. You pushed the boundaries of what Landmark could do, and we are grateful for the time and energy you shared through your creations in this game.    

While there is still time to enjoy Lumeria and the many worlds you’ve built within Landmark, we wanted to let you know what you will be seeing happen between now and February. Beginning today, Player Studio items will no longer be available for listing or for purchase in the Landmark Marketplace. Landmark will also no longer be available for purchase. All items in the Marketplace with a Daybreak Cash price will have their price reduced to 1 DBC.

The game servers, as well as the accompanying forums and social media channels, will be closed at 4:00PM Pacific Time on Tuesday, February 21, 2017.

We want to thank each and every one of you for your creative contributions to Landmark.

 

Daybreak Game Company"

http://massivelyop.com/2017/01/05/landmark-is-shutting-down-on-february-21/

I'll pre order you SWTOR if you let me put my lightsaber in your sarlaac cave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=related
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