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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?)  (Read 72707 times)
dusematic
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Reply #840 on: March 21, 2016, 06:37:22 PM

So I don't think it likely I'll convince anyone here that McQuaid is a halfway decent human being, and that's not my goal.  Sure, probably most of the people on this site have gone through a phase where they abused drugs and acted shady and weird; it just wasn't public. But I get he's a punchline.  I've never met the guy and never will; I don't give a shit about him.

I treat all this Kickstarter-type bullshit as highly speculative at best, like a lottery ticket I know won't pan out and nevertheless is fun to talk about.  But you would need to be a conspiracy theorist at this point to believe McQuaid is running a "scam."  There are clearly 20-25 employees, there are hours of video detailing a working prototype for the game. Clearly, that doesn't guarantee an eventual release, and clearly there are risks.  But nothing is guaranteed, in development, life, or otherwise.  Plenty of AAA projects get shitcanned all the time (see Sony Santa Monica's project for a recent high profile example). 

If you're talking about track record, I doubt there are that many directors who can claim they've shipped two AAA MMOs.  When you slice the pie again into how many of those guys are serving the market McQuaid is attempting to serve, there isn't anyone else. 


dusematic
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Reply #841 on: March 21, 2016, 07:04:12 PM

At this point for me, an mmo is eq or uo.  I may or may not enjoy bbq chicken pizza, but when I think of pizzas I think red sauce and pepperoni, and no amount of superior bbq pizza will do.

Serious question, are you currently playing EQ Classic or any of the EQ servers, or the old school UO emulator systems?

Cause if not this is nothing but nostalgia about the "good old days" that will never happen again, partially because gaming has evolved but more because you as a person have evolved.  The newness of the genre, the excitement of those around you for the game, the community that shares your values to a tee because everyone back then was at pretty much the same stage of life,  just the fact that you were younger, etc... is all gone and can never be gotten again.

So many of the games I loved growing up (both MMOs and non) I try to go back to and realize I just don't enjoy the game as much as I remember loving it previously.  That doesn't mean everything out since then is shit, it just means that tastes change as you grow up, and a lot of times the reason you think of why you loved the games you previously loved are not really the real core reasons why you loved those games in the first place.  Which of course means that every game you anticipate will check off the right checkboxes will not turn out exciting because it's not even the correct checkboxes you really want checked off.

This is a good post.  Didn't see it before because I was on mobile.  I have gone back to UO private shards attempting to replicate my original experience with the game (e.g. UO The 2nd Age).  I had a good time with my buddies, but ultimately it lacked two things: 

1) It could never have a similar world population in either size or composition.  Size is obvious, but the composition is less so.  Emulated UO is all grizzled veterans who know exactly what to do.  The beauty of original UO was that every sort of player was mixed in with all the rest precisely because there was no other choice.  This led to a richness of interaction that will never emerge again.

2) The interface is antiquated.

Also, I must say that I can still remember being utterly horrified and disappointed when I found out about macroing in UO after getting my blacksmith to grandmaster.  It cheapened everything.  Most UO emulators abide by macroing or cannot stop it.

I also tried to go back to EQ, but modern EQ is a completely different game than it was in 1999. I also enjoyed Vanguard until around level 30, when the content thinned out and the writing on the wall became clear for the game. 


Anyway, back to your point, yes, this is nothing but a nostalgia trip.  You can never go home again, etc.  But seeing as nobody is innovating in the MMO space and everything being produced is cold diarrhea, I might as well drink the cold diarrhea I've drunk before.  At least that's what my grandfather used to always say.
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Reply #842 on: March 21, 2016, 08:43:58 PM

When you slice the pie again into how many of those guys are serving the market McQuaid is attempting to serve, there isn't anyone else.

Because there isn't enough of a market to slice for what he's selling. As evidenced by his failure to get this to even get backed on Kickstarter.

dusematic
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Reply #843 on: March 22, 2016, 02:36:37 AM

Right.  So it's pin the tail on the donkey.
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Reply #844 on: March 22, 2016, 06:30:22 PM

I really can't hate on someone who is self-aware.  Keep being you, dude, and good luck.

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Reply #845 on: March 22, 2016, 06:40:09 PM

I also tried to go back to EQ, but modern EQ is a completely different game than it was in 1999.

So why aren't you playing Project 1999? A big community playing EQ through from Original to Velious, with great developers, implementing each gameplay change with the original timing. They finally added the Velious expansion last year, which is where they intend to stop.

They have about 1k concurrent logins during US peak, higher during major events. It's an independently run emulated server, but officially approved by Daybreak, the company that now owns EQ. You can install any era's UI on top of it. I'm using the Velious era UI, as it's the one I remembered best. Setup guide here.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 06:43:58 PM by Tale »

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dusematic
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Reply #846 on: March 22, 2016, 07:42:56 PM

I also tried to go back to EQ, but modern EQ is a completely different game than it was in 1999.

So why aren't you playing Project 1999? A big community playing EQ through from Original to Velious, with great developers, implementing each gameplay change with the original timing. They finally added the Velious expansion last year, which is where they intend to stop.

They have about 1k concurrent logins during US peak, higher during major events. It's an independently run emulated server, but officially approved by Daybreak, the company that now owns EQ. You can install any era's UI on top of it. I'm using the Velious era UI, as it's the one I remembered best. Setup guide here.

I've been thinking about it.  I actually just recently heard about it when I randomly went to see if Pantheon was still alive and found out somehow Brad conned an angel investor to give him some money.  

I think I need to read more about it, are they going to keep going with the expansions?  I don't know enough about it.  It's hard scrounging up friends to go play 1999-style EQ.  I'd really have to psych myself up for a solo run at that since I'd be mocked from all corners for it.  It's the equivalent of your friend coming over to your house and catching you alone in the dark watching ALF reruns.  

Yet you just get one other guy you know to hop aboard and it feels socially acceptable.  That's how cults work.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 07:44:33 PM by dusematic »
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Reply #847 on: March 22, 2016, 10:31:25 PM

I think I need to read more about it, are they going to keep going with the expansions?

No. They have always said they would stop at Velious, as the original flavour of EQ was lost after that. Now that they have launched Velious and it's been out for a few months, there is an unofficial poll on the P1999 forums about what to do next. The most popular choice is to start again at 1999 with a fresh server. But I don't know whether any of the P1999 team has said anything. They're volunteers and it's a pretty big effort to get something like Velious out and launched (as was Kunark), so I imagine they will sit back and let people play Original + Kunark + Velious for a year or two more.

Quote
It's hard scrounging up friends to go play 1999-style EQ.  I'd really have to psych myself up for a solo run at that since I'd be mocked from all corners for it.  It's the equivalent of your friend coming over to your house and catching you alone in the dark watching ALF reruns.

I have to play solo, as nobody really wants to join me and my time zone is GMT +10 (Sydney, Australia), which makes it even quieter. But I don't have the time to put into EQ, so I will never get anywhere, and I just use it for occasional bursts of oldschool fun. I haven't got beyond level 20, but there's never a shortage of things to do.

Quote
Yet you just get one other guy you know to hop aboard and it feels socially acceptable.  That's how cults work.

Speaking of cults, there are big, long-planned P1999 power guilds that have been going for years. Imagine min/maxing, grinding, powerlevelling, camping and raiding with a full library of spoilers and 20/20 foresight. There are Android apps to help you play P1999. Things that everyone knew would be nerfed over time, like Rubicite, Guise of the Deceiver, etc, were all camped and farmed to a far greater extent than in the original. The economy blew out, to the point that longtime players sometimes hand newer players sums of money to make it feasible for them to enter the player economy. But it still worked overall, as the game isn't ruined by inflation in the EC tunnel.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 01:55:56 AM by Tale »

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dusematic
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Reply #848 on: March 23, 2016, 05:45:52 AM


Yea, even in my heyday of free time to waste, I never got my necro out of the mid 40s.  There was some sort of hell level cock block. That's good they're stopping at velious since that's when I stopped. But without a group eq is impractical from my memory.

I think I'll give it a shot, although your last bit sort of reveals the problem with returning to these games.  Relatively, you're even further behind because the majority have everything on farm abd there are less casuals.
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Reply #849 on: March 23, 2016, 10:28:46 AM

Did P1999 remove hell levels like later EQ did, or are they still there? Because fuck those shit heads who were so bad at math they couldn't figure out how to fix that problem.

dusematic
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Reply #850 on: March 23, 2016, 02:36:21 PM

Jesus dude.  I got home early today and sat down and looked at the setup guide and it's just...I don't think I'm up for this shit anymore.  Torrenting a game, mounting the ISOs, downloading spell changes, deleting files, etc.  I know everyone will say it's a snap but I doubt I'll muster the effort to do all of that because something invariably goes wrong and I end up spending two days knee deep in obscure forums trying to resolve weird issues.

I'm probably too dumb to figure it out, and all of my friends who would follow me down this retarded rabbit hole are definitely waaaay too dumb to get this shit running. 

I think my next move might be Shroud of the Avatar.  Desperate, I know.
dusematic
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Reply #851 on: May 10, 2016, 03:33:52 PM

HaemishM
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Reply #852 on: May 10, 2016, 05:22:11 PM

They hired a social media manager. I'm sure that's money well-spent.  why so serious?

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Reply #853 on: May 10, 2016, 08:33:44 PM

I hope it was Mr. Sunglasses from WAR. He deserves to end up on a project like this.

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Reply #854 on: May 11, 2016, 04:39:22 PM

I hope it was Mr. Sunglasses from WAR. He deserves to end up on a project like this.

Sadly, he failed upwards to Wargaming and is currently shitting up World of XXXX. If he's smart he will sit there until his chair is pried away from his ass.

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Reply #855 on: May 12, 2016, 03:38:20 AM

What? Who? Wasn't IainC the WAR Community Manager that ended up at Wargaming?

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Reply #856 on: May 12, 2016, 03:45:04 PM

What? Who? Wasn't IainC the WAR Community Manager that ended up at Wargaming?

I was but I moved back to game design. I was at Wargaming Kyiv until Feb this year when I was made redundant in a studio downsizing. Paul Barnett is currently the Community Director for Wargaming NA. There was a corporate Facebook for WG and he was one of the most prolific posters there. Was kind of weird seeing him pop up again.

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Reply #857 on: May 12, 2016, 05:06:29 PM

What? Who? Wasn't IainC the WAR Community Manager that ended up at Wargaming?

I was but I moved back to game design. I was at Wargaming Kyiv until Feb this year when I was made redundant in a studio downsizing. Paul Barnett is currently the Community Director for Wargaming NA. There was a corporate Facebook for WG and he was one of the most prolific posters there. Was kind of weird seeing him pop up again.

Wargaming downsizing???  Did you at least get a complimentary money hat on the way out?

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Reply #858 on: May 12, 2016, 05:16:16 PM

It was mostly confined to the Kyiv studio as I understand it. Kyiv makes Warplanes and also did the mobile and browser games as well as a new project that I was originally hired to work on. That project was cancelled and the casual stuff got moved to Cyprus. That left about 150 people at the studio with nothing to do (Kyiv is a huge studio because it's the central art studio for all WG products). I was moved over to Warplanes for a while but the axe was pretty inevitable and, because WG hires people as contractors rather than employees, there wasn't much in the way of moneyhats. I got paid my notice period but I didn't have to work it. I did have to go back to the office on my birthday to sign the paperwork saying that I was fired however...


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Reply #859 on: May 13, 2016, 03:57:37 AM

What? Who? Wasn't IainC the WAR Community Manager that ended up at Wargaming?
Paul Barnett

Ah so that's who they were referring to with "Mr. Sunglasses". I was wondering why the hate on you. Somehow I had Barnett completely removed from my memory. Heh.

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Reply #860 on: May 13, 2016, 03:17:11 PM

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Reply #861 on: May 13, 2016, 10:43:26 PM


Fuuuuuck I had forgotten how much I can't stand that guy. What a shit show that was.
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Reply #862 on: May 14, 2016, 12:14:18 AM

Jesus, such a punchable pudding chin.

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Reply #863 on: December 20, 2016, 09:58:51 AM

After watching the latest live stream, this is my FFXI replacement.  Finally, someone has a clue how to make an MMORPG. Other than the Darkfall Rise of Agon reboot, this is the only mmo worth playing.
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Reply #864 on: March 22, 2017, 05:11:40 PM

Sadness knows no bounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO3MuXT7GrU

Yes, if you watch long enough (or just skip ahead like I did), you will see characters meditating during combat and pets named Gabanter that just stand beside their owner.

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Reply #865 on: March 22, 2017, 05:18:20 PM

Watching three people sit down doing nothing for most of the fight is far too exciting for me, I'm going to stare at the ceiling instead.

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Reply #866 on: March 23, 2017, 09:50:13 AM

Those are some of the best Tree graphics I've ever seen.

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Reply #867 on: March 23, 2017, 10:02:14 AM

It is literally EQ1 with modern graphics. Right down to the same yellow glowy hands for a shaman and looting interface. Even the goddamn run animations are the same "arms akimbo with stick up your ass" that I remember from EQ1. Holy shit.

"Pay me $20 a month for a game experience you can play for free at Project 1999!"  why so serious?

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Game looks good for now...but sorry to say it healing looks very very bad in general, very static and boring, sitting and not casting anything to regen mana is not fun, it needs some class mechanics something to make it interesting and unique, I know you guys take stuff from EQ but come on this is 2016, sitting is not fun for a healer like myself...make healing fun and active like for ex bearshaman class from aoc or disciple of khaine from warhammer, invent new stuff or inspire yourself but not copy something that is clearly not fun, healer needs to by active in fights, fight needs to be engaging for all party members not sleep type of combat, sitting for mana regen...that Is a lame excuse for the lack of class mechanics, make healer regen mana with unique class mechanics either melee healer type or ranged, maybe sitting outside combat yes but not while others fight next to you and you are sitting doing nothing, since its pre-alpha I know it will get better and better, good luck guys I will support the game.

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Reply #868 on: March 28, 2017, 07:21:59 PM

Sadness knows no bounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO3MuXT7GrU

Yes, if you watch long enough (or just skip ahead like I did), you will see characters meditating during combat and pets named Gabanter that just stand beside their owner.

The least convincing part is Brad's "doing great, doing great" at the start :(

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Reply #869 on: March 29, 2017, 07:58:12 AM

Jabanti, my trusty Shaman pet from Everquest, there he is hiding. Bad wolf!
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Reply #870 on: April 05, 2017, 01:13:24 PM

This is so miuch better. For real 100% not joking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJJT-PZIUwU

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Reply #871 on: April 05, 2017, 09:14:51 PM

That was a really interesting video. 17 years. Good God.

I'm almost tempted to give it a try now.

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Reply #872 on: April 06, 2017, 01:22:12 AM

Nah. What he mentions as "the most popular expansion" Planes of Power was the one that ended EQ for me. It introduced the fast-travel system that shrank the world, so you could never feel like you were in a remote place anymore. Great for those who only view a game as a set of mechanics, horrible if you enjoyed the game world. It also massively increased the grind, made raiding even more of a full-time job, and was the kind of thing produced after the initial team had all left, when you "listen to the forums" rather than design a game.

I know many disagree, but for me EverQuest 1999-2002 is still #1 on the best things I've ever played. Happy to relive it on Project 1999, but the current game is too bloated and diluted. The sort of thing a person who liked Planes of Power would enjoy. Back to Elite Dangerous for me.

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Reply #873 on: April 06, 2017, 11:27:24 PM

I wanted to try it again until he said that they removed corpse runs. This is not EverQuest anymore.

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Reply #874 on: April 14, 2017, 12:44:24 PM

Perception system. This is gonna work so well.

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