Magic: The Combattening - Hearthstone

[Quinton]

And, of course, Magic Draft/Sealed gives you some headroom above the 40 cards that are going into your deck to work with, gives you the ability to adjust for the 2nd or 3rd game in a match, and so on.  Yeah there are random factors but you are given a lot more in the way of tools to compensate for them.

[Rokal]

The second part of your post throws the first part of your post out the window. In Magic, you're on basically even terrain. This system doesn't even make sense. There aren't pods. There isn't a "known" card pool. There isn't any influence. There isn't even a proper tier list of players because it's absurdly random.

This is the Zynga version of CCGs. Cardville.

You can influence the table in a Magic draft, but your card pool is still largely determined by luck. You may open shittier packs, and be passed cards in a shittier order than the rest of the table. You can overcome bad luck in what your potential card pool ends up being vs your opponents by building a better-balanced deck, having a better mana curve/land ratio, and by playing better. Same is true for Hearthstone Arena (well, minus land ratio). If the luck/RNG of Arena bugs you I don't understand why luck/RNG that is inherent to drafting in Magic doesn't also.

My biggest problem with Hearthstone is that the legendaries/rares seem completely out of balance with the rest of the cards in the game. It's not that other players I'm matched again might have more legendaries/rares than me, it's that those cards are disproportionately powerful compared to everything else. Magic does a better job of making cards with equal costs/purposes, but different rarities, have strengths and weaknesses so that there were plenty of situations where the common was the better card.

[Paelos]

I mean I'm still shocked people are comparing the two. They aren't the same at all and that's a good thing.

I get that people will try to pretend that HS is high level, and I'm sure you can shave the random factor out a bit similar to high level poker players, but at the end of the day you're subject to the draw.

[Thrawn]

If the luck/RNG of Arena bugs you I don't understand why luck/RNG that is inherent to drafting in Magic doesn't also.

It's already been explained a few times in various ways here...

In Magic drafting skill matters much more than luck, in Hearthstone arena luck matters more than skill once you aren't playing against terrible people anymore.

[Severian]

Bobby Kotick: "Hearthstone has potential to become Blizzard's fourth "mega" franchise, following World of WarCraft, StarCraft, and Diablo"

I agree with His Satanic Majesty, this will be a huge success.


P.S. Hearthstone is not Magic. It is known.

[MrHat]

Gave this another go because "skill game." First arena run was RNG addled but still won 3 games. 2 Rares, lol. Second arena run, 4 epics, 2 rares? Why do people genuinely like this again?

Same reason people like Dice in their boardgames.

[schild]

Gave this another go because "skill game." First arena run was RNG addled but still won 3 games. 2 Rares, lol. Second arena run, 4 epics, 2 rares? Why do people genuinely like this again?

Same reason people like Dice in their boardgames.

Buttheads like dice.

[Simond]

On a side note: Magic draft pools haven't been luck-based since roughly Time Spiral.

All the cool kids quit playing MtG after Ice Age.

[Paelos]

Buttheads like dice.

It kills you that this is going to be successful, doesn't it. 

[schild]

Not at all. Farmville was successful, why wouldn't a shiny, watered-down hilariously unbalanced card game be successful? Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things. And the latter is a very profitable card game.

On a side note: Magic draft pools haven't been luck-based since roughly Time Spiral.

All the cool kids quit playing MtG after Ice Age.

Wrong, they quit after Fallen Empires, came back for Ice Age / Necropotence and quit because of Chronicles a month later.

[Ironwood]

Bobby Kotick: "Hearthstone has potential to become Blizzard's fourth "mega" franchise, following World of WarCraft, StarCraft, and Diablo"

I agree with His Satanic Majesty, this will be a huge success.


P.S. Hearthstone is not Magic. It is known.

Except some have already decided not to put any more money in that shitdicks pocket.

But I think this will be rather large nonetheless.  I'm not going to generalise from my own thoughts to the rest of the world like some.   

[Paelos]

ATVI stock jumped a ton this week, FYI. The company posted net revenues over $2.2 Billion in just the fourth quarter.

Soooooo, Kotick's not going anywhere. And as much as people may hate the guy, I'm impressed by the fact he's running one of the few actual businesses in the gaming industry, unlike the rest of these unwashed fuckups.

[Ironwood]

What's that got to do with anything ?

[Paelos]

You referenced Kotick, and I'm pointing out that people that say they aren't putting money in that shitdicks pocket are either lying or aren't making a dent.

[Morat20]

I'd like to reiterate -- I suck at this game. Massively. Not sure why. My drafts on Arena never seem to work out (0-3 my last try), the decks I make end up sucking, so obviously I'm doing something wrong.

I cleared out the practice normal and expert, that wasn't too bad (well, Priest v Priest on expert sucked so much I switched to Hunter to kill the Priest), but against people?

I learned a few neat tricks (like silencing your own minions to get rid of negative traits, that sort of thing) but by and large I just get crushed in Arena and my win/loss in casual and ranked isn't worth writing home about.

[MrHat]

Did you try using that tier list?

Arena is about not drafting bad card and trap cards.

[Morat20]

Did you try using that tier list?

Arena is about not drafting bad card and trap cards.

Trap cards?

Eh, mostly it's half MtG reflexes when building decks (my brain still insists you can't attack and defend in the same turn, that you can pump health past thirty, etc) and drafting for the arena and part just not having a consistent feel for the classes I'm being offered.

Mage I understand. Priest I'm coming to understand. Hunter I'm still a bit iffy on how to focus it. So I keep getting like, none of those classes on Arena. And getting slammed on casual by people whose EVERY FREAKING MINION HAS TAUNT and I've got nothing for direct damage.

[Ironwood]

You referenced Kotick, and I'm pointing out that people that say they aren't putting money in that shitdicks pocket are either lying or aren't making a dent.

It's like you didn't read the next line.  Premature Ejaculation there.

[MrHat]

Did you try using that tier list?

Arena is about not drafting bad card and trap cards.

Trap cards?

I meant cards that require some sort of synergy to really work well.  Just no way to plan for it.  You just have to pick the best card out of 3 for 15 goes, then fill out whats left in your curve.

[Morat20]

Ah, gotcha. I sorta crushed a guy today in casual as a druid with a similar thing. All my cards came up perfect.

Also got some sort of Legendary out of a pack. Something something Dragon that something something Dream.

[Mosesandstick]

Ysera? She's green.

[Rasix]

Ah, gotcha. I sorta crushed a guy today in casual as a druid with a similar thing. All my cards came up perfect.

Also got some sort of Legendary out of a pack. Something something Dragon that something something Dream.

Ysera is some serious bullshit.  Enjoy.

[Morat20]

Every time I've managed to play it, I've had it one-shotted it. It's pretty sad. :)

Stupid Power Word: Death and other insta-gib cards.

[trias_e]

The playerbase is pretty damn weak after open beta started.  Even bad drafts should go at least 3 wins generally speaking.  If you're constantly getting less than 3 wins, I highly, highly recommend watching Kripp or Trump stream some arena.  Trump has full runs nicely archived on his youtube channel.  Here's one with a bit more explanation than usual:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaz4pQkFpmg

Ysera is very good because, even if it gets 'insta-gibbed', you still get at least one card out of it.  Almost all of the good legendaries all give some effect the turn they are played (or when they die), because removal is quite likely.

[Ironwood]

Ah, gotcha. I sorta crushed a guy today in casual as a druid with a similar thing. All my cards came up perfect.

Also got some sort of Legendary out of a pack. Something something Dragon that something something Dream.

Ysera is some serious bullshit.  Enjoy.

Yup.  I thought dream cards were just a fancy way of saying 'more cards' until I looked them up.  It's a massive bullshit fest. 

There's an 11-1 trump arena run with a Deathwing where he uses it twice tho - for the skilled players, it would seem legendary bullshit is mostly redundant.

[Morat20]

Alarm-o-botting Ysera out was hilarious. Just for the record. :)

Right now I'm basically filling up the basic decks. Don't like Warlock that much. Hunter's kind of fun, especially with a beast-heavy deck.

[trias_e]

The only thing better than alarm-o-botting ysera is alarm-o-botting deathwing (note alarm-o-bot does not trigger battlecry)

[Morat20]

That is a useful arena video. I can see at least some of the errors I'm making with card choices and deck design. The flow of the game is a bit different than I was building for.

[Rasix]

Well, with Ysera against folks with Hex, Poly or other removal, you have to try and bait it out earlier.  A turn six boulderfist ogre or even a turn 3/4 yeti might get one of them out of the way.  When I had my arena deck with Onyxia, she was taken care of in a turn most of the time. 

Hunter might be a bit hard in arena if you go for a beast deck.  Your ability to do that is somewhat hampered by RNG.  However, hunters have some great value cards if you're able to pull them.

I've had various amounts of luck with just about every class in arena, save priest or warlock who I haven't played yet in that format.

[Ironwood]

I find the trouble with Beast decks is removal.  Many, many, many of the beasts are just shittily fragile.  I've had a whole wall of beasts just consecrated or flamestruck out of existence.

[Paelos]

I tried Priest in Arena and died horribly. I got 1 win, but on the whole I don't think the deck holds up well.

[Ironwood]

For those of you thinking of trying the 'priest can now damage instead of heal' don't bother.

It really doesn't work with the rest of his cards.

[Mosesandstick]

The first game I played that card I used the ability incorrectly, killed two of my minions and healed my opponents. And then I didn't know how to concede.

The second game I facerolled with it and velen

[cironian]

Yeah, it pays to double check. Yesterday I played some minion with a healing battlecry who got charge by another minion on the field (or the other way around, not quite sure). Anyway, I targeted the enemy hero and healed him instead of attacking.

[Job601]

Shadowform is tough to fit into decks, although when you get it going it's the best hero power in the game, but Auchenai Soul Priest is an amazing card that can really turn a game around.  The Soul Priest -> circle of healing combo is a 2 card 4 mana flamestrike.  Definitely a non-bo with Holy Nova, though.