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Author Topic: Theros  (Read 1878 times)
schild
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on: August 27, 2013, 11:43:38 PM

In a surprise twist, I think I hate this set.

First of all, they tried to fix Chroma. It's still a stupid fucking mechanic. "Devotion" (which isn't actually a keyword) is stupid. You don't reward people for playing less colors or paying attention to mana symbols on cards.

Second, enchantments. Christ. So this is an "enchantments matter" block. Well, enchantments are a pretty shitty part of Magic. They're either fucking amazing (Rancor, Spreading Seas, Enchantress's Presence, Unstable Mutation, Oblivion Ring/Detention Sphere, etc.) or totally shit (99.999999991% of them). Now they've decided to make them, uh, ...



So, when you play it for the Bestow cost, it's an enchantment. If the creature it's on is destroyed ... it becomes a creature. If you Doom Blade the creature it's targeting on cast, it enters the battlefield as a creature even though you cast it as an enchantment (as per Matt Tabak, rules nazi). Jury is out on Essence Scattering it as an enchantment or Negating it as a creature. If you naturalize it.. I uh.

what

i don't care anymore

this set is stupid

Oh, and all the other keywords are a convoluted fucking mess also.

Hex can't come soon enough. I think I'm out of standard for a while.
Ingmar
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Reply #1 on: August 28, 2013, 12:17:02 AM

Huh, chroma was definitely not on my radar as a possibility for the tweaked mechanic. I'm really not bothered by the idea of a block that encourages mono-colored play, though I exclusively play limited these days so if constructed goes all wacky, well, whatever. Probably important to know that it makes mana bases much cheaper in dollar terms if you are playing mono-whatever, that might make things a little more accessible.

I kind of like bestow. I don't really see why the jury is out on countering it, if you counter it, it's never in play so straight to the graveyard it goes. I'm 99.9% sure it can't change type once it goes on the stack, just once it resolves, so you just counter whatever type of thing it is cast as.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #2 on: August 28, 2013, 05:50:50 AM

When you combine the "enchantment creatures" with the "enchantment artifacts" in this set, it really feels like a trying too hard to make enchants not suck, set.
Heroic and Monstrous have at least some small chance of not sucking, but the whole enchantment theme just leaves me cold.
Chroma redone doesn't bother me mechanically other than it's a clear attempt to push mono colored decks which is less appealing having just gone through a great period for 3 and more color decks.
Most people are predicting overall this will be a slow down to standard in both speed and color use.
Which is too bad, b/c i like the greek flavor and art overall.

Maindecking Naturalize seems like a good idea now.  Ohhhhh, I see.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Aza
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Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 12:08:49 AM

From the perspective of Limited/Draft play, this set has been fun. The commons and uncommons feel more balanced than is typical, and the format is slowed down compared to RTR. Agro and 6+ drop slower (control/creature) decks all seem like viable strategies. Devotion is good in 2 color decks, and really only Mythic Gods would push you to even considering mono. Between Heroic, Bestow, Monstrous, combat tricks, and harder to use removal, there are lots of interesting choices to make.

I can't speak to Constructed, but this set is exactly what I like to see in Limited, and i certainly hope to see this type of strategy diversity in future sets.

PS. you can blow up bestow cards (and they don't become a creature) as enchantment auras if they are being cast on a creature.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:12:41 AM by Aza »
schild
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Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 12:29:22 AM

I have not played Standard in 3 months. I own a single Theros card (Foil Thassa for Zur.dec in EDH). I have basically nothing to say about Magic at the moment due to Hex.
Aza
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Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 01:02:01 PM

Magic is making a concerted effort these days on improved balance and unique gameplay mechanics, it's also getting more popular - as far as revenue and players go (like card games and board games is on the whole). I hope HEX is as good as we dream, they are definitely offering mechanics that are unique from Magic, but I'm pretty worried about balance, which could ruin the experience if they aren't smart about it.
schild
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Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 01:11:47 PM

It'll take them a few sets to balance Hex. I suffered Jund and Caw-Blade, I can suffer whatever bullshit Hex puts up for a couple sets.
Ingmar
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Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 10:50:13 PM

Theros is weird, but I think I like it as an environment overall. It didn't instantly grab me with awesomeness like RoE though.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 06:25:07 AM

From the perspective of Limited/Draft play, this set has been fun. The commons and uncommons feel more balanced than is typical, and the format is slowed down compared to RTR. Agro and 6+ drop slower (control/creature) decks all seem like viable strategies. Devotion is good in 2 color decks, and really only Mythic Gods would push you to even considering mono. Between Heroic, Bestow, Monstrous, combat tricks, and harder to use removal, there are lots of interesting choices to make.
I can't speak to Constructed, but this set is exactly what I like to see in Limited, and i certainly hope to see this type of strategy diversity in future sets.
PS. you can blow up bestow cards (and they don't become a creature) as enchantment auras if they are being cast on a creature.

I will say that the overall impression that the set itself was going to be slow in draft and sealed was very overblown.  Both at the pre-release and the drafts I've done since, heroic aggro is cleaning up and is very very fast.  Give you a small example from one of my draft matches friday night.  Guy i was playing was red-white heroic aggro; had a wingsteed rider (2/2 fly 3 drop) and a phalanx leader (1/1 2 drop) in play both of whom have heroic triggers.  He attacks, use a Dauntless Onslaught (3) and a Coordinated Assault (1) to target each creature twice with pump effects, so 2 properly sequenced heroic triggers and the pumps later, that was a 6/5 and 9/8 swinging in for 15 damage on turn 4, and post turn his creatures were now 4/4 flier and a 3/3.  It's clearly an all out aggro plan, but with the amount of cheap heroic dudes and pumps, it's not hard to do since all those cards are commons and uncommons.  You can also pair white with green for heroic stuff too.  The Blue small White fliers plan still works too with Vaporkin. Nibus Niads, other cheap white fliers and tempo plays from blue.  I would be actively nervous going to a slow monstrous dudes plan if you dont have some cheap removal/bounce for the early game.  You may never get to a late game.

Standard is still very much an open book right now.  The first week i went 4-0 with a Wr mid-range deck but i don't think that was any indication of anything since the majority of my matches were against RDW type decks.  God's Willing is my favorite card to play.  It's like a 1 mana white counterspell with scry 1.  :)

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Aza
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Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 04:29:30 PM

I do agree with you here, red/white has some intense agro potential, and it probably has better odds than slower stuff out there in Draft. If you get some big butts, pretty much with any blue, on the battlefield you can really shut down agro though. Personally I have had success with agro and good slow and evasive (and sort of control) decks.
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 05:55:01 AM

PS. you can blow up bestow cards (and they don't become a creature) as enchantment auras if they are being cast on a creature.

Forgot to mention in my other post, but this actually isnt true.  With standard auras, yes if you destroy the target of the aura before it resolves, the aura fizzles and goes to the graveyard.
For Bestow creatures, if you attempt to cast them as an aura and their target is removed before it resolves, they simply enter the battlefield as creatures that cost you more to play.  They specifically designed it this way to "make auras better".
From the rules set FAQ

Quote
702.102a Bestow represents two static abilities, one that functions while the card with bestow is on the stack and another that functions both while it's on the stack and while it's on the battlefield. "Bestow [cost]" means "You may cast this card by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost." and "If you chose to pay this spell's bestow cost, it becomes an Aura enchantment and gains enchant creature. These effects last until one of two things happens: this spell has an illegal target as it resolves or the permanent this spell becomes, becomes unattached." Paying a card's bestow cost follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2eg.

702.102b If a spell's controller chooses to pay its bestow cost, that player chooses a legal target for that Aura spell as defined by its enchant creature ability and rule 601.2c. See also rule 303.4.

702.102c A spell's controller can't choose to pay its bestow cost unless that player can choose a legal target for that spell after it becomes an Aura spell.

702.102d As an Aura spell with bestow begins resolving, if its target is illegal, the effect making it an Aura spell ends. It continues resolving as a creature spell and will be put onto the battlefield under the control of the spell's controller. This is an exception to rule 608.3a.

Unless you mean you can counterspell them as enchantments while they are being cast which you can.


"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
schild
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Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 11:03:30 AM

Bestow creatures turning into the creature when they hit play because their target is nuked is one of the dumbest fucking rules decisions Matt Tabak and crew have ever come up with. Just straight stupid. I pretty much lost my shit when it was announced to function that way and its one of the driving factors for going ALL IN on Hex. (I've played Magic once in the last month and it was Legacy).
Aza
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Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 04:22:03 PM

I have enjoyed Bestow quite a bit, myself. Going back to my opinion that there is room for agro AND slow/control decks in this format mainly is due to Bestow. Bestow presents major flexibility in creature creation/enchanting. You have good early game and late game choices with the same card, and it allows you to hold out to build your power level, or play a Bestow creature quickly to keep an agro deck at bay. As any good MTG player knows, auras are typically too risky and you'll get blown out if they are destroyed, I think the new Bestow rules were made the way they were to make the aura strategy legitimate in this format. I'm personally glad Magic is trying new mechanics and like this one a lot.
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