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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Game Design/Development  |  Topic: MtG: What is the core? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: MtG: What is the core?  (Read 9511 times)
schild
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Reply #70 on: September 17, 2013, 10:29:31 PM

I run 3x Cruel Ultimatum in my Modern Grixis build. That stupid deck is 17-3 and took down a 1k. Ive played modern... 3 times and only because i like snapping back Cruel Ultimatum.
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #71 on: September 18, 2013, 10:51:30 AM

So, lets talk power and cards.
How do you experts, judge how good a card is (lets say, in a set) and how important to that level of power is a complete playable x4 set?
Are the two related? Are some cards powerful even as a single copy?

New players often hear about "the rule of 9" which basically just means, pick 9 cards that work well together, jam 4 of each, add 24 lands and you have a deck.  So that the general starting point for folks, but it doesnt take long to start realizing that "rule" is nothing of the sort and often leads to worse decks.  As Ingmar said, evaluating how many of a given card best works in your deck is incredibly context sensitive.  For a blitz aggro deck that wants to consistently vomit out it's hand by turn 3, using 4 of's might still make sense, but even they might have some 2-3 of cards, especially in the sideboard.

Judging how good a card is can't be done completely in a vacuum.  At a minimum you are comparing it's cost/power to other cards in the same format, but even that doesn't tell the whole story.  Take a simple grizzly bear - 1G for a 2/2 vanilla creature.  If you compare that to a 2G 2/2 creature, it's better b/c i'ts cheaper for the same exact card.  That's easy.  But compare that to a GG 2/2.  Normally, the 1G is "better" b/c you can cast it more easily so it can fit in more decks that use multiple colors.  But, now we need to know what fits our deck better.  For example, in the upcoming Theros block, there is a mechanic called "devotion" which cares about the number of colored mana symbols on the cards you have in play.  Generally, the more matching symbols you have, the more powerful your devotion related spells will be.  If you are utilizing that in your deck, picking the GG 2/2 creature over the 1G 2/2 creature is better b/c it helps advance your plan, despite that fact that double color spells are much harder to splash into a multi-color deck.  But that also means you are probably aiming for a mono color or light splash two color deck rather than full commitment to 2+ colors.  And of course, knowing what sort of lands are available to support multiple colors, how many lands you are running, where this card fits on your curve, what format you are playing, etc all play a role in card selection too.

Short answer, it always varies and many times the correct answers on not only which cards are "better" but also how many copies you want is only revealed by repeated play testing.  Which is another reason so many people just netdeck so they don't have to do that work themselves...  Ohhhhh, I see.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
schild
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Reply #72 on: September 18, 2013, 10:55:46 AM

4x Squadron Hawk
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Batterskull
4x Mana Leak
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Day of Judgment
4x Sword of War and Peace
4x Batterskull
4x Gideon Jura
LAND

Sometimes the Rule of 9 is just fine.

So rarely though. SO RARELY.

Because really, that deck was: 4x Jace the Mind Sculptor, other shit, Lands.

As for how one judges how cards are good. It's simple, just know every single other card in the format. A card is only as good as the meta, so judging a single card on its worth is kind of useless. This is why I haven't posted a single Hex decklist - and won't until we have a full spoiler. I haven't even looked at some of the recent cards because they don't matter... yet.
Megrim
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Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.


Reply #73 on: November 15, 2013, 06:17:26 PM

Ok, so I played in a pretty casual draft with my mates, using the latest release (Theros?). Now I got smashed pretty badly, coming third last and one question which came to mind was: how do you guys go about reading the particular, style for lack of a better word, of a set? I know Schild has talked before about formats being "solved", so is knowing the cards in the set, and the combinations of play that are expected prior to drafting, a big part of drafting well?

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #74 on: November 18, 2013, 07:03:13 PM

Ok, so I played in a pretty casual draft with my mates, using the latest release (Theros?). Now I got smashed pretty badly, coming third last and one question which came to mind was: how do you guys go about reading the particular, style for lack of a better word, of a set? I know Schild has talked before about formats being "solved", so is knowing the cards in the set, and the combinations of play that are expected prior to drafting, a big part of drafting well?

Absolutely.  Knowing what draft archtypes generally exist and work well in a given set is very important, if  you dont know the key cards for a given deck style you can easily end up with a pile of cards that just dont work well together.  For example, in Theros draft you can attempt a very fast red-white heroic deck, which means valuing the heroic dudes and enabler spells much differently that if you are going a more control oriented blue/X build, or giant green monsters, or mono black seeking to abuse multiple Gray Merchants...

Also not that sealed and draft do not play the same even with a single set.  If you get a chance go watch the video Ben Stark and LSV did for Grand Prix Oakland for some nice general strategies on sealed and how it differs from draft.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Megrim
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Posts: 2479

Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.


Reply #75 on: November 19, 2013, 03:40:51 PM

I'll give that video a go when I get home from work, thank you; I think that I enjoy draft for than I would sealed for a couple of reasons. I don't want to collect physical cards anymore, and I like the challenge posed by the draft format and the unpredictability of it. And, quite accurately, my hardest losses were to something + white aggro (seriously, who thought Gods Willing was a good idea?!  huh).

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Xilren's Twin
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Posts: 1648


Reply #76 on: November 20, 2013, 07:46:28 AM

Forgot to mention, Limited Resources is a regular magic podcast that is devoted entirely to draft/sealed.  Nice to download and listen too when you are doing other stuff.

One of the guys who hosts it recently posted an article on booster draft basics on the mothership too (he has a regular column on limited there).

Also, here's a article on star city on some Theros draft deck types.  Most of the big magic sites have a lot of videos of drafts and articles on card evaluation for each set that comes out.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
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