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Author Topic: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice  (Read 282976 times)
Ragnoros
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Reply #805 on: August 06, 2014, 11:05:41 AM

I don't agree.  When Rousey is cleaned up, she is really good looking and her physique is way closer to Amazon Warrior than Carano's.  Hair would need to be black, obviously.

Cant comment on her acting, but physique... (slight nsfw)


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Cyrrex
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Reply #806 on: August 06, 2014, 11:49:20 AM

Can we please not use the star wars prequels as examples of why things will be bad.

There is so much wrong with each of them that you can't reasonably claim that the reason any aspect if them was bad was because of one specific thing.

Sorry I touched you in your bathing suit area.  It was just a random example, and I thought it was apt because it was somebody that many consider to be a great actress who totally couldn't pull of the physical part of a role.  It matters.

Lynda Carter, ironically, is another great example.  She gets a pass, however, on account that she was unbelievably gorgeous.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #807 on: August 06, 2014, 11:51:37 AM

Ragnaros, I am unsure what you are trying to say with that Rousey picture, but that is hands down one of the worst photos I have ever seen of her.  Awkward stance, and that is from a weigh-in were she is all drawn out and dehydrated.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
HaemishM
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Reply #808 on: August 06, 2014, 12:12:58 PM

I think he's saying she looks good yet still muscular. I mean, that's what I'm saying when I look at that pic. Also, schwing.

Hoax
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Reply #809 on: August 06, 2014, 12:56:19 PM

The problem with this movie is going to be DC is trying to be more like Marvel movies and they just aren't smart enough to even halfway pull it off. As others have noted Marvel would have put Affleck Batman and/orWonder Woman in their own movies first. This just isn't setup in any kind of sensible way. On top of that DC is run by people who think comics are stupid and comic movies are stupid and the people who care are the worst. So predictably all their movies are shit.

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Margalis
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Reply #810 on: August 06, 2014, 05:08:18 PM

Re: Whedon Girls: The guy writes and casts women he wants to bone. It's that simple.

 rolleyes

You think he casts them for what - their acting ability? Eliza Dushku, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Summer Glau...stellar actresses!

I suppose you could be a bit more charitable and say he casts women he thinks the audience wants to bone. The point is he doesn't mind casting women who look hilariously ridiculous fighting as long as they look hot doing it. Those are his priorities.

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Khaldun
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Reply #811 on: August 06, 2014, 06:21:14 PM

I think Summer Glau is pretty good at playing the characters she's been cast to play. And looks fairly convincing fighting.
Margalis
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Reply #812 on: August 06, 2014, 06:52:10 PM

She's definitely the best out of those 3. SMG never learned how to throw a punch in all her years doing Buffy.

To me "she's a sexy high schooler / hooker / leather chick who looks hot and has grrl power" is already a little tiring, then you throw in not being good at acting or stage fighting and I'm out. (I forgot Cobie Smulders and that SHIELD chick!)

I'm kind of curious how Scarlett Johansson was cast. I assume it was run by Joss, by I also assume he wasn't as involved as in the casting of parts particular to Avengers or SHIELD. He clearly has one type and she's not it.

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Nevermore
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Reply #813 on: August 06, 2014, 08:23:27 PM

I think Summer Glau is pretty good at playing the characters she's been cast to play. And looks fairly convincing fighting.


She's a classically trained ballet dancer.

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Ragnoros
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Reply #814 on: August 06, 2014, 09:32:03 PM

I think he's saying she looks good yet still muscular. I mean, that's what I'm saying when I look at that pic. Also, schwing.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #815 on: August 06, 2014, 09:56:00 PM


Lynda Carter, ironically, is another great example.  She gets a pass, however, on account that she was unbelievably gorgeous.
It was also the 70's, we had much lower standards when it came to fight choreography.  Half-assed wrist blocks were closer to real fighting than most Americans had ever seen on TV.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #816 on: August 06, 2014, 10:49:31 PM

Very true.  But still, she was also stupidly good-looking.  Hell, I think she might still be.

Summer Glau is also waif-like, but she pulls it off by virtue of actually being athletic.

I don't know much about what gives Joss Whedon a boner, but the casting of Scarlett Johansson is not terribly mysterious.  Right around that timeframe was when she was routinely be called "the most beautiful woman ever, ever".  I may have added those last two words myself.  Anyway, casting her wasn't exactly going out on a limb.

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eldaec
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Reply #817 on: August 06, 2014, 11:16:38 PM

She's definitely the best out of those 3. SMG never learned how to throw a punch in all her years doing Buffy.

To me "she's a sexy high schooler / hooker / leather chick who looks hot and has grrl power" is already a little tiring, then you throw in not being good at acting or stage fighting and I'm out. (I forgot Cobie Smulders and that SHIELD chick!)

I'm kind of curious how Scarlett Johansson was cast. I assume it was run by Joss, by I also assume he wasn't as involved as in the casting of parts particular to Avengers or SHIELD. He clearly has one type and she's not it.

I seem to remember Emily Blunt was the original casting fwiw.

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Velorath
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Reply #818 on: August 07, 2014, 02:55:08 AM

Re: Whedon Girls: The guy writes and casts women he wants to bone. It's that simple.

 rolleyes

You think he casts them for what - their acting ability? Eliza Dushku, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Summer Glau...stellar actresses!

I suppose you could be a bit more charitable and say he casts women he thinks the audience wants to bone. The point is he doesn't mind casting women who look hilariously ridiculous fighting as long as they look hot doing it. Those are his priorities.

At least you're willing to very marginally backpedal from suggesting he's just casting women he wants to fuck. Of course, I'm not sure "he casts hot chicks on TV shows" is quite the searing insight you seem to think it is. The phrase Whedon Girls is kinda retarded also considering Charlie's Angels and Wonder Woman predate Buffy by a couple decades.

Also, Summer Glau didn't really do much in the way of fighting in Firefly until Serenity (where, as others mentioned she did a good job). Gina Torres was the tough female character on the show and looked convincing in the part.
Cyrrex
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Reply #819 on: August 07, 2014, 04:28:54 AM

Yeah, her Serenity character was totally different as far as that was concerned.  I seemed to also remember her being a pretty convincing terminator.  That is actually quite a feat, the more I think about it.

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Margalis
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Reply #820 on: August 07, 2014, 04:39:56 AM

At least you're willing to very marginally backpedal from suggesting he's just casting women he wants to fuck.

No, I'm saying someone could say that to be more charitable. That someone isn't me. 

Maybe Tarantino casts Uma Thurman because he thinks audiences really want to see Uma Thurman. Sure.


Quote
The phrase Whedon Girls is kinda retarded also considering Charlie's Angels and Wonder Woman predate Buffy by a couple decades.

Joss Whedon has what, 5 shows, as well as a bunch of movies, that reflect the same casting tendencies. If you want to say he makes Charlie's Angels level shlock I agree 100%.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #821 on: August 07, 2014, 04:47:55 AM

I must be dense, but I don't understand what those casting tendencies are you are referring to and more importantly what would be so unusual about such a thing if it is true.  The reasons that all of these movies are filled with attractive women is because we all want to bang them on some level.  It would seem odd if the directors that cast them didn't also want to bang them on some level.  If Joss Whedon prefers a certain kind of female, then it is also not terribly unusual that he would cast that kind of female.  And as far as I can tell, the women he picks tend to be pretty popular with the rest of us as well.  Hollywood owes a lot of its success to casting attractive people.

Maybe I just really don't get the point you are making.

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tazelbain
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Reply #822 on: August 07, 2014, 07:28:07 AM

I think its cognitive dissonance of casting waives as martial arts bad asses.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:44:33 AM by tazelbain »

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Hutch
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Reply #823 on: August 07, 2014, 07:41:09 AM

Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow originally appeared in Iron Man 2. I don't think Whedon was involved by then.

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HaemishM
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Reply #824 on: August 07, 2014, 08:03:04 AM

Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow originally appeared in Iron Man 2. I don't think Whedon was involved by then.


This. If anything, blame Jon Favreau as opposed to Whedon. I'm pretty sure the Josster had little input.

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Reply #825 on: August 07, 2014, 01:53:43 PM

I think its cognitive dissonance of casting waives as martial arts bad asses.

Which again, is pretty common. Right now Guardians of the Galaxy, a movie that most of us here seem to love, cast Zoe Saldana as the "most dangerous woman in the Galaxy". She also previously stared in Colombiana written by Luc Besson, who directed movies such as La Femme Nikita and The Fifth Element, which involved waifs Anne Parillaud and Milla Jovovich being badasses. Michelle Yeoh was never trained for martial arts prior to doing movies, and much like Summer Glau, was a trained dancer. Prior to Gina Carano doing a bit of acting, was there some pool of good actresses who are physically intimidating who were being underutilized?

Also, that dissonance was at least half the point of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The premise of the movie and the show is essentially that she's incredibly unlikely person to be the sole defender of humanity. Charisma Carpenter was looking fairly fit in Angel, especially as the show went on (another former ballet dancer as well as aerobics instructor and NFL cheerleader, so someone who obviously works out quite a bit). I still haven't seen a lot of Dollhouse so I can't really comment there. Firefly, as I said earlier, had Zoe as the badass not River (Summer Glau). Aside from shooting three people in one episode, River generally just got to hang out in the ship and be crazy. The martial arts badass in Agents of Shield is Ming-Na Wen, who maybe isn't the most physically imposing person but I'm not sure casting someone who is 50 years old fits in with the casting tendencies Margalis is talking about.
Evildrider
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Reply #826 on: August 07, 2014, 02:50:47 PM

Ming-na is buff bro.

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Reply #827 on: August 07, 2014, 05:23:49 PM

This thread has gone a lot of places since I last posted.  So I guess I'll keep tangents going.   awesome, for real
I don't agree.  When Rousey is cleaned up, she is really good looking and her physique is way closer to Amazon Warrior than Carano's.  Hair would need to be black, obviously.

Cant comment on her acting, but physique... (slight nsfw)


First, seriously, while she has a nice stomach, that chick is just not that attractive.  Especially compared to Gina Carano, whom I feel as a better physique.  Which actually makes me ask, why do you think she has a better physique for the role of Amazon Warrior than Carano?  Especially for the role of wonder woman (of which Carano seems to have two key advantages  why so serious?).  Just curious.

My experience with Whedon is mainly limited to Firefly and his avengers stuff, but at least from that, I don't understand the Whedon Girl complains.  Summer made herself a very convincing fighter, and as others have said, the other main women on the show looked rather buff.  Only people who do wrestling and need the weight have to have physique like Carano or Rousey when fighting (which is all UFC seems to be).  Fast martial arts fighters (which in reality is more show than practical) don't, so very thin girls can easily make a convincing show in film of being an ultimate fighter.

The dissonance you guys complain about changes when we deal with comics.  Yes, Superman has always been drawn muscular, so we expect that.  But its because he was always drawn that way and what we are expecting to see in a film (along with red underwear and cape), since his sick triceps aren't what allow him to pick up buildings and throw them into space.  But it works the other way on women, since most women superheros (until recently) have always been drawn pretty damn slim/sexy.  So its what we expect.  A buff as shit wonder women causes me a much greater dissonance than a thin one, because most of pop culture remembers her as just a hot chick with big boobs running around in a swim suit.  Only in newer comics (like the one I showed above) do they seem to really try tone/muscle her up.  Linda Carter, for better or worst, is a big reference for people.  Hell, after arguing in this thread and wondering if I was crazy, I showed some co-workers (mainly in 30's to 40's age range) that promo picture that got released.  All 5 of them reacted roughly the same: "Wow, they really made Wonder Woman masculine!"   awesome, for real

So yes, when casting for the characters of Black Widow or Wonder Woman, they are casting correctly as far as what people are expecting to see physically.

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Margalis
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Reply #828 on: August 07, 2014, 05:33:51 PM

I think its cognitive dissonance of casting waives as martial arts bad asses.

It's more the cognitive dissonance of casting bad actresses with the same body type in most roles regardless of how suitable they are.

I'm not saying every tough girl in movies has to be played by Ronda Rousey. But it's nice when a person cast actually fits the role to some degree, in looks or demeanor or being able to act appropriately.

In La Femme Nikita the female lead does a great job. No, she's not a body-builder or martial arts experts, but she pulls off the role. That's she's a rabid unhinged person who gets molded into an assassin is at least somewhat believable in the context of the movie.

Sigourney Weaver wasn't super ripped in the Alien films but she worked. Linda Hamilton was in good shape for T2 but she wasn't a martial arts expert. These women weren't real life badasses but they were good actresses.

Cobie Smulders is not convincing as a SHIELD higher-up. SMG is not convincing as an ass-kicker. SHIELD hacker chick is not convincing as a brainy hacker chick. Some of that is how they look, but a lot of that is how they act - not well. It's like these dozen interchangeable CW shows that are filled with good-looking bad actors. Being good looking or having a certain body type isn't an issue. The issue is when people are cast regardless of talent because of those attributes.

It's not "is this a tough person in real life?" This is acting. The question is "can this person act like a tough person onscreen?" Or "can this person act like a hacker?" Or a scientist, or whatever the role calls for. Tara Reid and Denise Richards didn't work as scientists because they are dumb in real life and, more importantly, don't have the acting ability to play a not-dumb person.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 05:37:35 PM by Margalis »

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Velorath
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Reply #829 on: August 07, 2014, 05:48:57 PM

Dushku maybe isn't a great actress, but SMG did get nominated for a Golden Globe one year for Buffy.  She's certainly not my favorite, but I wouldn't call her a bad actress. Especially since we're talking about a show on the WB. I'm not sure what young Academy Award winner you think they could have snagged for that role. Aside from that, I'm not sure where all these horrible actresses Whedon cast are.

Edit: Ok, Skye kinda sucks also.
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Reply #830 on: August 07, 2014, 07:09:13 PM

I think Whedon tends to cast mediocre people and get the best out of them, a lot like JMS did. I can understand the critiques of Whedon Girls, but overall, he's better than most.

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Reply #831 on: August 07, 2014, 07:29:33 PM

Buffy doesn't count either, she was supposed to be a cheerleader who gets supernatural strength.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #832 on: August 07, 2014, 10:38:08 PM

This thread has gone a lot of places since I last posted.  So I guess I'll keep tangents going.   awesome, for real
I don't agree.  When Rousey is cleaned up, she is really good looking and her physique is way closer to Amazon Warrior than Carano's.  Hair would need to be black, obviously.

Cant comment on her acting, but physique... (slight nsfw)


First, seriously, while she has a nice stomach, that chick is just not that attractive.  Especially compared to Gina Carano, whom I feel as a better physique.  Which actually makes me ask, why do you think she has a better physique for the role of Amazon Warrior than Carano?  Especially for the role of wonder woman (of which Carano seems to have two key advantages  why so serious?).  Just curious.


Again, that is a terrible photo, but I assume you are not judging her solely on that one.  Anyway, I also think Gina Carano is attractive and probably would fit the WW bill fairly well (I have no idea how well she acts, but she'd have the physical parts down).  My preference for Rousey is based do some degree on the fact that she simply gives me tingly feelings in my special place.  But mostly it is because she is a true to life bad ass.  Carano still comes across to me as a delicate princess.  I know this sound a bit too much like Internet Tough Guy (and I will admit that I am possibly wrong), but I would wager money that I could destroy Gina Carano.  On the other hand, I would wager zero dollars if I had to take on Rousey.  Partly because my boner would get in the way, but mostly because I actually think she would beat the shit out of me.  No, I don't actually want to fight any women.  The point is, Rousey is both very good looking in my opinion, has a crazy physique, and actually kicks a serious amount of real-world ass.

Interestingly enough, there still seems to be a chance that they will fight each other IRL.

   

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Teleku
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Reply #833 on: August 08, 2014, 12:40:18 AM

Yeah, sorry, does sound a bit internet tough guy, haha.   tongue  I don’t know if you also do MMA fighting as a hobby and are ripped, so maybe you can actually make a call like that.  But I personally make the assumption that any man or women who have gotten themselves up to the level of being a professional competitive fighter can kick the shit out of me, since I’m not.

Anyways, just different strokes it seems, and we could tangent off forever on this.  I’ll let this very serious thread resume its course.   awesome, for real

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Cyrrex
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Reply #834 on: August 08, 2014, 01:10:32 AM

Yeah, sorry, does sound a bit internet tough guy, haha.   tongue

What's the point of a thread about a Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman movie where we can't debate which female actresses/MMA fighter are most suitable for the part and which ones we couldn't whoop IRL?   awesome, for real

I shouldn't talk anyway, I have a pretty significant back injury I am still recovering from.  I couldn't even beat up my wife at this point.  Maybe in a week or two.

Still pretty sure I could take Carano if I were healthy. 

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #835 on: August 08, 2014, 05:35:53 AM

I couldn't even beat up my wife at this point.  Maybe in a week or two.


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Reply #836 on: August 08, 2014, 08:25:42 AM

I think Whedon tends to cast mediocre people and get the best out of them, a lot like JMS did. I can understand the critiques of Whedon Girls, but overall, he's better than most.
If you're referencing B5, I'd say that calling the cast mediocre is off base.  There were some great actors on that show.  There would have been even more but for the studio influence.  I'm not saying there were not bas ones as well - but at least half the main cast he intended were really great actors.

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Reply #837 on: August 08, 2014, 08:39:16 AM

I think where you could say that JMS got better performances than you might otherwise have expected through good writing and direction would be Boxleitner, Mumy and Furst. Jurasik and Katsulas actually frankly breathed more life into their characters than the scripts demanded, and more or less compelled JMS to build even better plotting around them as a result.

I think that happens when any decent showrunner/director meets up with any decent ensemble cast: some people push forward and make their characters more than anybody thought they would be going in.

If you want somebody who REALLY can't do that, Snyder strikes me as pretty much the definition of that kind of director. Because his stuff is so visual but shallow--he really doesn't have a feel for the soul of what he's doing in any film, even the ones that aren't awful.
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Reply #838 on: August 08, 2014, 08:42:34 AM

Yeah, I'm not counting on Synder to get a great performance out of Oscar winning actors, much less the people has has cast in this movie - especially if he is writing the screenplay.

He's like McG only he has a modicum of directing talent, just not much soul. Like a less technically savvy James Cameron.

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Reply #839 on: August 08, 2014, 08:43:37 AM

Every character in man of steel was bland and unremarkable.  SvB is going to suck balls for that reason alone, it doesn't really matter who they cast as what.

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