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Author Topic: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice  (Read 91105 times)
Ironwood
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Reply #35 on: July 23, 2013, 02:18:48 AM

I thought He-Man Was Marvel, but there you go.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #36 on: July 23, 2013, 02:37:32 AM

Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about whether it was all DC or not.  They just don't fit together in any way.

While we're at it, though, were I magically controllilng Superman I would just have him fly into Castle Grayskull at supersonic speeds and blow it to smithereens.  Instant win!

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Velorath
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Reply #37 on: July 23, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

For better or worse, there's actually a DC/He-Man 6 issue crossover mini-series starting next month.

Edit:

Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about whether it was all DC or not.  They just don't fit together in any way.

For the record, Superman has also met or fought:


Aliens and Predators
Terminators
Muhammad Ali and various other real world people like Orson Welles, Jerry Lewis, Ann Blyth, Antonino Rocca, Ralph Edwards, Perry Como, JFK, and Pat Boone.
The Thundercats
I Love Lucy (George Reeves appearing as Superman on the show)
The KKK
Bugs Bunny
The Quik Bunny (mascot for Quik chocolate milk)

« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 04:16:50 AM by Velorath »
Merusk
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Reply #38 on: July 23, 2013, 05:20:00 AM

Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about whether it was all DC or not.  They just don't fit together in any way.

While we're at it, though, were I magically controllilng Superman I would just have him fly into Castle Grayskull at supersonic speeds and blow it to smithereens.  Instant win!

Except Skeletor wanted to control Greyskull, not destroy it.  The place turned a foppish Prince Valiant into the mightiest man in the universe, imagine what it would do for a faceless necromancer.

As for ridiculous crossovers, here's a few that are just weird

http://www.cracked.com/article_18785_6-comic-book-crossovers-you-wont-believe-actually-happened.html
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 06:48:23 AM by Merusk »

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DraconianOne
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Reply #39 on: July 23, 2013, 06:15:18 AM

Surprised there hasn't been a Superman vs Judge Dredd crossover yet.

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Reply #40 on: July 23, 2013, 11:51:02 AM

Ahahahah, I wonder if this decision was made after the critical panning of Man of Steel.

Seriously; I don't think it is possible to make a really good serious Superman movie. Don't say the 70s ones either; those are camp.

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Ironwood
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Reply #41 on: July 23, 2013, 01:36:37 PM

Well, the quest for peace was quite....

Nope, couldn't manage it.

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Teleku
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Reply #42 on: July 23, 2013, 01:47:02 PM

Batman VS. Predator would be a far more interesting movie.



 why so serious?

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tazelbain
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Reply #43 on: July 23, 2013, 01:55:39 PM

Only way this could be of any value is if Batman is going punish Superman for the events of the first movie.

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jgsugden
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Reply #44 on: July 23, 2013, 04:10:27 PM

I don't get how this can work, honestly.  You're going to introduce a new Batman and give him sufficient power levels to go head to head with Superman?  If you introduce Batman at those power levels, how can he go on to fight the Joker, Penguin, etc... without it being a joke?  Batman is the human side of the DC universe, and you're destroying that humanity right from the start?  They could surprise me and make this work, but I just don't see it.

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Ratman_tf
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Reply #45 on: July 23, 2013, 04:13:08 PM

Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about whether it was all DC or not.  They just don't fit together in any way.

While we're at it, though, were I magically controllilng Superman I would just have him fly into Castle Grayskull at supersonic speeds and blow it to smithereens.  Instant win!

Nearly everything in Eternia is magical. Ramming Superman into Castle Greyskull would likey give supes a crushed noggin.



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Ratman_tf
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Reply #46 on: July 23, 2013, 04:17:33 PM

Wait, He-Man can beat Superman ?

How does that work ?  Eternian Sun not Yellow enough ?

He-Man's strength comes from a magical source, Castle Greyskull. Superman is vulnerable to magic, so yea. If He-Man punched Superman, he'd hurt him.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
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Merusk
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Reply #47 on: July 23, 2013, 07:07:30 PM

Ahahahah, I wonder if this decision was made after the critical panning of Man of Steel.

Seriously; I don't think it is possible to make a really good serious Superman movie. Don't say the 70s ones either; those are camp.

Because there's no conflict.  He's so grossly overpowered that the only source of conflict that can be used is the Hero's Choice. While camp, the 1st Superman showed that even THAT isn't really a problem for Mr. "I can travel through time."

He's a god. Gods are boring unless they're fighting other gods and we have no concern for their squabbles these days.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Evildrider
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Reply #48 on: July 23, 2013, 08:11:09 PM

Wait, He-Man can beat Superman ?

How does that work ?  Eternian Sun not Yellow enough ?

He-Man's strength comes from a magical source, Castle Greyskull. Superman is vulnerable to magic, so yea. If He-Man punched Superman, he'd hurt him.

Yep same reason Supes has problems fighting Captain Marvel.
Ratman_tf
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Reply #49 on: July 23, 2013, 08:19:52 PM

Ahahahah, I wonder if this decision was made after the critical panning of Man of Steel.

Seriously; I don't think it is possible to make a really good serious Superman movie. Don't say the 70s ones either; those are camp.

Because there's no conflict.  He's so grossly overpowered that the only source of conflict that can be used is the Hero's Choice. While camp, the 1st Superman showed that even THAT isn't really a problem for Mr. "I can travel through time."

He's a god. Gods are boring unless they're fighting other gods and we have no concern for their squabbles these days.

Don't forget his Repair The Great Wall Of China vision! That's one specific superpower! I bet he was so happy to finally get to use it.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Venkman
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Reply #50 on: July 23, 2013, 08:35:35 PM

I don't get how this can work, honestly.  You're going to introduce a new Batman and give him sufficient power levels to go head to head with Superman?  If you introduce Batman at those power levels, how can he go on to fight the Joker, Penguin, etc... without it being a joke?  Batman is the human side of the DC universe, and you're destroying that humanity right from the start?  They could surprise me and make this work, but I just don't see it.
I am very much not a comic-book expert. However, I will say with authority you really need to go read The Dark Knight Returns. It actually works.

However, I agree with the others here: this wouldn't be a good premise for a Superman/Batman crossover summer blockbuster movie. You'd need 2-3 movies to establish how much Superman got corrupted and how cynical Batman got along with the pissing matches between them that happen before the final encounter in Crime Alley. And even that fight was Batman getting his ass kicked until the trump card at the end. And even that wasn't what it was all about in the first place.

Too convoluted for the ooo-shiny crowd.

And I agree Bale wouldn't fit this kind of movie. Which is actually the thing I'm more curious about. They can slap together any ol' story and it'd be fine. But they get the wrong Bruce Wayne/Batman or don't establish him well enough, and it probabky doesn't work well.
Tannhauser
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Reply #51 on: July 23, 2013, 09:45:43 PM

It's a strange direction to go.  What does this mean for the JLA movie?  IS there one?  Lex will probably trick Supes into trying to capture Batman and after hijinks, they team up and take Lex's new real estate plan down.

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #52 on: July 24, 2013, 12:13:31 AM

Wait, He-Man can beat Superman ?

How does that work ?  Eternian Sun not Yellow enough ?

He-Man's strength comes from a magical source, Castle Greyskull. Superman is vulnerable to magic, so yea. If He-Man punched Superman, he'd hurt him.

Yep same reason Supes has problems fighting Captain Marvel.

I get the superman is weak against magical sources. I get that he-man's strength comes from magic but....what exactly about a punch is magical? Is superman reall so lame he has DR 100/magic and he-man's fists count as +1?

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Kageru
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Reply #53 on: July 24, 2013, 12:57:30 AM


Silly people using comic book logic.

The superman brand needs to team up with the batman franchise to make money. The content of the movie will just involve someone hitting someone, doesn't really matter who.

Though this conversation is a good example of why Superman is such a boring character and it was so easy to skip the movie.

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Ironwood
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Reply #54 on: July 24, 2013, 03:29:15 AM

Wait, He-Man can beat Superman ?

How does that work ?  Eternian Sun not Yellow enough ?

He-Man's strength comes from a magical source, Castle Greyskull. Superman is vulnerable to magic, so yea. If He-Man punched Superman, he'd hurt him.

Yep same reason Supes has problems fighting Captain Marvel.

I get the superman is weak against magical sources. I get that he-man's strength comes from magic but....what exactly about a punch is magical? Is superman reall so lame he has DR 100/magic and he-man's fists count as +1?


I didn't know about the Magic (not caring at all about Superman) and I was applying this logic to it.  I feel enlightened now.

Kinda.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #55 on: July 24, 2013, 06:50:17 AM

I think the above is right--you'll get a Batman emerging in Gotham City, we'll see a quick sketch of what he's up to via the news reports which will be full of hysteria and fear, Lex Luthor will beg Superman to capture this sinister vigilante, Batman will prepare some kind of Superman defense (probably some kind of recreation of Krypton's atmosphere as per Man of Steel) while trying to convince Superman that Lex Luthor is the real bad guy here and he's up to something that could threaten the world etc., they'll team up after a bit more superhero-misunderstanding silliness and go after Luthor, who will have something going that needs both of them to defeat it. (Something for Supes to fight plus some sort of fortress or facility that Batman has to get into.)  I really doubt they're going to throw us anything surprising or artful here.
jgsugden
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Reply #56 on: July 24, 2013, 11:21:10 AM

I don't get how this can work, honestly.  You're going to introduce a new Batman and give him sufficient power levels to go head to head with Superman? ...
I am very much not a comic-book expert. However, I will say with authority you really need to go read The Dark Knight Returns. It actually works. ...
I have read it.  And seen the animated adaption (about a week ago).  I think we both nailed why this wouldn't work in this movie: TDKR relies upon the established characters.  It is only because we know who and what the Batman is (and in the case of TDKR, was) that we can accept his plan.

And, 1/2 the story has already been told in the recent Batman trilogy, anyways.  Batman coming out of retirement?  III.  Joker's gambit?  II.  Heck, the best argument to have Bale come back for this movie would be to complete the entire DKR storyline with the established characters.

I believe you can make a good Superman movie.  I don't believe they nailed the forumla, yet, but I did see some things I liked in this most recent version.  I just don't see how they'll improve the situation by introducing Batman in such an 'unBatman-like' situation.  I believe DC is so buried in trappings that take time to accept, they'd be much better off introducing the DC world slowly before doing any cross-overs. 

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Merusk
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Reply #57 on: July 24, 2013, 12:03:20 PM

I'd agree that Bayle's Batman was almost there, but he's out of the game too young.  There's no way you can establish a history between him and Supes having happened to give it enough of a men-at-odds feeling.

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Tannhauser
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Reply #58 on: July 24, 2013, 12:26:22 PM

You use the first act to set up their teamwork.

The movie opens on a toy factory.  Bats is investigating and he overcomes deadly traps and confronts the Toymaker.  Toy jumps in a big robot and laughs.  Bats is overpowered.  Suddenly Supes blows in and takes out the robot and they both capture Toymaker.  Supes has heard of Bats and takes him to the FoS where Bats studies Superman carefully.  Meanwhile LL, who was bankrolling Toymaker, is disturbed by the team up.  His plan to control Metropolis and Gotham City is at risk.  He invites the press (Clark and Lois) to tour his new factory to fight other superpowered invaders like the Kryptonians.  Lots of tension.  Lex notes how strongly Lois defends Supes.  Her glowing stories in the DP make him realize that she may be a friend or even lover to Supes.  He puts her in a dangerous position and Supes promptly shows and LL watches the sexual tension.

Bats, meanwhile, is disturbed by Lexcorp moving in on Gotham City after Wayne Industries recent issues.  He fights goons and goes up the food chain by detective work.  His home life is dull as we compare it to Supes and Lois' glamorous blossoming relationship.  'Robin' is anxious to measure up to the old Bats so he is going on a tear.  Finally LL  meets him and turns him against Supes.  Look what Supes did to save Lois!  He endangered a whole city for a single life, etc.  Lex brings up the horrible damage Metropolis suffered and the death of Zod.  A couple more staged incidents make Bats decide to help LL restrain Supes.

The big 'fight'.  Supes is no match for Bats and LL's brains.  Bats goes off satisified and LL tortures Supes and plans to do a cell transfer so LL can be like Supes.  Of course he'll kill Supes after the transfer, so he won't have an equal.  Bats, who never believed LL, saves Supes and they team up to bring down a powered up LL while Supes is still weak.

Supes and Bats bond and they decide that a team of heroes can do even more.  They hint that they'll create a league that will enforce justice. 

That's what I'd do.
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Reply #59 on: July 24, 2013, 01:24:10 PM

We are getting into some dangerous fanfic territory here people.

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Ironwood
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Reply #60 on: July 24, 2013, 02:12:40 PM

Yeah.  Let's not do this.  Like at all.

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Merusk
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Reply #61 on: July 24, 2013, 04:42:53 PM

Her glowing stories in the DP make him realize that she may be a friend or even lover to Supes. 

I read this far, far dirtier than anything BUT a fanfic, so... yeah.

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Margalis
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Reply #62 on: July 24, 2013, 05:01:01 PM

The movie opens on a toy factory.  Bats is investigating and he overcomes deadly traps and confronts the Toymaker.  Toy jumps in a big robot and laughs.  Bats is overpowered. 

A movie where Batman is overpowered by "the Toymaker" does not sound like a winner to me.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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Reply #63 on: July 24, 2013, 05:19:22 PM

For better or worse, there's actually a DC/He-Man 6 issue crossover mini-series starting next month.

Oh I think definitely worse.

jgsugden
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Reply #64 on: July 24, 2013, 07:08:06 PM

Yeah.  Let's not do this.  Like at all.
Fine, but you're missing out on my pitch involving their adventures in Bat-bondage and Super-furry.   

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Venkman
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Reply #65 on: July 24, 2013, 07:15:54 PM

I don't get how this can work, honestly.  You're going to introduce a new Batman and give him sufficient power levels to go head to head with Superman? ...
I am very much not a comic-book expert. However, I will say with authority you really need to go read The Dark Knight Returns. It actually works. ...
I have read it.  And seen the animated adaption (about a week ago). 
Was the animated movie good enough to watch? I saw it come up on netflix at some point.

Otherwise: totally agree.

And on the fanfic: as much as I enjoy reading the ideas, all those roads lead to disappointment. It's fun, and yes, we all know this is about money and they're trying to catch up to Marvel without having nearly enough individual character successes to do it and whatnot. And I think many of us have wanted a Batman/Superman movie, and we all laughed with a bit of hope at the movie poster in NYC in I Am Legend.

But they need to pull off quite a bit, including a whole new Batman probably, so there's a lot of ways it can fail.
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Reply #66 on: July 24, 2013, 08:36:45 PM

Actually the Dini-era animated Batman/Superman World's Finest is quite great and really would not be a terrible source material for a live action flick in that it has a Batman and a Superman who don't really know each other well, and it mixes the Joker and Lex Luthor as antagonists in some clever ways. It also has a twist that nobody had thought of until then but which makes a lot of sense--Bruce Wayne quite seriously romances Lois Lane (who is at that point quite diffident about Clark Kent and a bit wary even about Superman in romantic terms). About the only disadvantage to it as a template is that both characters have their individual status quo situations pretty well established, whereas this film is going to have to tell us what kind of Batman we're dealing with and do it fairly quickly.
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Reply #67 on: July 25, 2013, 09:46:18 AM

...Was the animated movie good enough to watch? I saw it come up on netflix at some point.
I enjoyed the book more than the movie, but it was good for DC animation.  They were very faithful, including the trappings of the 80s.  If you don't love women's shoulder pads...

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Ironwood
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Reply #68 on: July 25, 2013, 10:39:03 AM

Yeah.  Let's not do this.  Like at all.
Fine, but you're missing out on my pitch involving their adventures in Bat-bondage and Super-furry.   


I think I'll survive.

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Sir T
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Reply #69 on: July 25, 2013, 10:54:23 AM

Batman VS. Predator would be a far more interesting movie.



 why so serious?

It's been done. And very well too. Batman: Dead End

You can watch it and download it here. Batman: Dead end site

The same bunch also did a mockup of a trailer for superman/ Batman crossover movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsmqc4RhSQY

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
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