Orange is the new Black

[Engels]

Netlix original series. Think Oz with writing like the Wire, but with a bit more 'unintentional' comedy thrown in.

From Netflix:

From the creator of “Weeds” comes a heartbreaking and hilarious new series set in a women’s prison. Piper Chapman’s wild past comes back to haunt her, resulting in her arrest and detention in a federal penitentiary. To pay her debt to society, Piper trades her comfortable New York life for an orange prison jumpsuit and finds unexpected conflict and camaraderie amidst an eccentric group of inmates.

Now, the first two episodes are a bit bland, sorta like the Wire, because they're still setting the scene and making introuductions. Then shit gets real very quickly.

The scope of characters and the depth with which they treat them is the tops. Walking Dead comes somewhat close, but not really.

Kate Mulgrew is in it too, playing a terrifying prison inmate.

[Mrbloodworth]

Really enjoying this show.

[schild]

The first episode was almost unwatchably bad.

[Surlyboi]

Laura Prepon's tits.

That is all.

[MahrinSkel]

Laura Prepon's tits.

That is all.

Only time you get to see them, there's no nudity after the first episode except a printed photo of some crazy chick's bearded clam.

--Dave

[Tebonas]

I've watched the first five episodes now, and while I don't dislike it all that much, I've stopped because it sets up major plot twists by main characters being plain dumb. I dread watching the next episodes and seeing that out-of-character retardedness come to fruititon.

Oz this is not.

[schild]

This show is not for men. Like, at all.

[satael]

I managed to watch the first 2 episodes. The flashbacks in this show managed to be the opposite of the one's in Oz; they were not interesting, informative and there were too many of them.

[Tebonas]

Also, all that fake danger. Really, everybody there is a cuddly bunny, and the only danger to the main character exists because she is an annoying person. Those inmates are basically saints to not even have hit her once.

[Engels]

I think ya'll are taking this a bit too seriously. Its not Oz or the Wire in its level of violence, no. But that's somewhat the point. That's not how women do violence. I'm still enjoying it, even if the stakes are not as high as Oz.

If the accusation is that its not 'realistic', well, its based on a 'true story' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Kerman) and the time served was in a minimum security prison. Hence things are not going to be as violent as Oz.

Also, 'this show is not for men'?  Don't get me wrong, I don't think that's being misogynist or anything, but to me that's like saying that Band of Brothers is 'not for women'. Sure, men and women will yawn at some parts of both shows, but I always hope one can look past the gender and see the people.

[schild]

but to me that's like saying that Band of Brothers is 'not for women'.

Yea, no, it's not like that at all.

[Engels]

Well, care to elaborate? Or is this proof by authority?

[schild]

Band of Brothers is a miniseries based on events people actually cared about (you know, World War II) that painted a sanitized but reasonable picture of war for that particular unit.

Orange is the New Black is about a girl no one actually cares about going to a prison (for a pitiful situation that barely qualifies as a crime) that isn't that dramatic and is more like a really, really shitty sorority house where girls are a little grosser than they are in reality and nothing actually interesting happens. It's would be on the Oxygen network if they could've done it without nudity. Also the flashbacks are specifically designed to appeal to women, and I know this because they put me to fucking sleep and the fiance is practically riveted by them. Sample size: Man and Woman watching it at the same time.

Just because a story is true doesn't mean its interesting or worth putting on film. But when they decide to do something like that, they certainly need a target demographic when they pitch it - and that demographic was pretty clearly not men.

[Engels]

I'm giggling a bit here at your assertion that women aren't as gross as portrayed in the series. Also, the show isn't interesting yet your fiance is riveted. Because she is a woman. Not because its interesting. Its actually boring as fuck and your fiance is a bore. 

[schild]

Oh women are super gross. Im saying this is mildly grosser. Also,  didnt say she found it interesting. Sex and the City is an awful piece of shit, but women cant seem to stop watching it for whatever reason. Same with the real housewives of wherever. Its a raging case of "whatever" to me. Thanks for being insulting for no reason though, that was classy.

[Numtini]

There's an assumption that women's shows are for women only and male shows are for everyone.

Having said that, from the advertising, it's definitely not being marketed as a chick flick sort of show. Most chick-media is about wish fulfillment and I don't see a lot of that in a show about going to prison. I'll check it out.

[schild]

There's an assumption that women's shows are for women only and male shows are for everyone.

Having said that, from the advertising, it's definitely not being marketed as a chick flick sort of show. Most chick-media is about wish fulfillment and I don't see a lot of that in a show about going to prison. I'll check it out.

I can't really think of any "dude' shows other than, I don't know, Ice Road Truckers? Duck Dynasty? /shrug. I feel like shows for women are far more pointed in the fact they're made for women, to the point of being exclusionary when it comes to men. Like the prior example of Sex and the City. What is a "dude" show?

As for the second bit, I agree, but it certainly shouldn't get anyone to subscribe to netflix, man or woman.

[Numtini]

I can't really think of any "dude' shows

That's what it's like to be on top. Your shows are everyone shows. Women's shows are for women.

[schild]

I can't really think of any "dude' shows

That's what it's like to be on top. Your shows are everyone shows. Women's shows are for women.

Or you could, like, name one.

[HaemishM]

Just stop before this goes into politics.

[Engels]

Thanks for being insulting for no reason though, that was classy.

Aw, I didn't mean it like that. I was poking fun at the way you expressed it, I knew exactly what you meant. "Gotcha" forum posting, so to speak. I didn't mean anything by it. Thought it would show, but apparently not, so I apologize.

That said, Numtini is somewhat expressing my point. Sex in the City may be pretty much exclusively geared towards women, but I don't find this show particularly 'girly'. I don't find the drama and power struggles portrayed particularly the province of women, and the humor in it doesn't seem to be 'women humor'.

Beyond the humor or the target demographic, I find that the show is honestly exploring issues that aren't often given too much air. The desperation of a transsexual to maintain her hormone treatment despite the jail system cutting her supply in half. The bonds formed between people within the jail threatened when one of them is released. The racial dynamics between blacks, Latinos and 'other', for lack of a better term. The appalling and insidious abuse of power by the chief guard, etc. Considering that our nation has the highest per capita inmate population of any country, ever, it seems a bit relevant to us. Maybe even as relevant as, oh, I don't know, World War II.

[schild]

While part of what you're saying is true, the show does a boring-ass job of portraying any of that.

Again though, outside of The Wire (not even Oz), I find it hard to attach myself to a lot of shows like this due to where I spent a number of my formative years and college years. Which were high crime cities that white people who Summer in the Hamptons would call "real."

Also, this fucking show just bores me. That's its real crime. It may be tackling issues worth tackling, but it's doing so in a way that I just can't give a shit. I still want to know the male equivalent to Sex and the City though (so I can watch it).

[MrHat]

While part of what you're saying is true, the show does a boring-ass job of portraying any of that.

Again though, outside of The Wire (not even Oz), I find it hard to attach myself to a lot of shows like this due to where I spent a number of my formative years and college years. Which were high crime cities that white people who Summer in the Hamptons would call "real."

Also, this fucking show just bores me. That's its real crime. It may be tackling issues worth tackling, but it's doing so in a way that I just can't give a shit. I still want to know the male equivalent to Sex and the City though (so I can watch it).

Makes for good tv while painting.

[Engels]

I still want to know the male equivalent to Sex and the City though (so I can watch it).

Perhaps Spartacus. Or just about any WW2 documentary a-la- History Channel. I don't imagine many knitting circles gather around to watch "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe". However, I don't think that's Numtini's point. I sorta think she means that 'regular' TV is made by a male driven culture so it doesn't -have- to be male specific. Women are culturally used to having to watch stuff that has a strong male heterosexual bias, so it doesn't -seem- 'male only', but truth be told, if things were more equal in our society, the general tenor of shows would likely be different. I think that's what Num's saying, but she can clarify if she chooses.

Society does seem to have some blinders on about this. Case in point, RR Martin's quip during an interview regarding female characters

[Numtini]

Perhaps Spartacus. Or just about any WW2 documentary a-la- History Channel. I don't imagine many knitting circles gather around to watch "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe". However, I don't think that's Numtini's point. I sorta think she means that 'regular' TV is made by a male driven culture so it doesn't -have- to be male specific. Women are culturally used to having to watch stuff that has a strong male heterosexual bias, so it doesn't -seem- 'male only', but truth be told, if things were more equal in our society, the general tenor of shows would likely be different. I think that's what Num's saying, but she can clarify if she chooses.

You put that a hell of a lot better than I did and yes, that's what I'm getting at.

If you don't like the show, based on ten minutes after which I turned it off, it's not because it's a chick show. I saw nothing of that. It's because it's just not very good.

[MediumHigh]

Well most shows are made to target heterosexual men anyway, hasn't been true since Will and Grace. Sure shows like the Soprano or the Wire hasn't been made for female audiences, but that's a really niche market to begin with and make up a decimal point behind that second zero of tv.

I'm gonna let a season roll by before I decide to watch, this may end up in the same bin as weeds, which is breaking bad if Walt was a soccer mom.

[schild]

The Sopranos and The Wire were made for humans from 18 to 45. They were not even remotely gender specific.

As for a previous post, Spartacus was a pretty good example (maybe, dunno, haven't seen it myself, but I'll buy that). But WWII documentaries aren't made for males. They're made for people that like history. That history-obsession is a male dominated trait doesn't make them targeted towards men. What's so male about them, rather than "history" about them?

[Korachia]

The Sopranos and The Wire were made for humans from 18 to 45. They were not even remotely gender specific.

As for a previous post, Spartacus was a pretty good example (maybe, dunno, haven't seen it myself, but I'll buy that). But WWII documentaries aren't made for males. They're made for people that like history. That history-obsession is a male dominated trait doesn't make them targeted towards men. What's so male about them, rather than "history" about them?

If I was a feminist, my argument could maybe sound something like:

These WWII documentaries (and other documentaries) always focuses on the dramatic events of history and especially military history. This area is by its very nature heavily influenced by male dominated values and perceptions.  Furthermore they often fall into the "great man theory" of explaining history. "Heroes" and "vilians" are the main and most important driving forces of history. So the focus is naturally on Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon and so on. Hence male-centricism, for where is the history about the everyday ordinary lives of the people (and especially vulnerable groups, such as women and children) living in that era? While there is a few documentaries on this, they are far and wide apart. How many documentaries have you seen about the general insecurity of women in WW1 and what role male (masculine) identity played in the heavy raping of women? Properly not many. Instead there is a host of documentaries focusing on great personalities such as Hindenburg and Ludendorff and often there is many masculine underlying values involved in the perception of them. Try and spot them the next time around you watch a documentary.

What I would sum it down to is that our perception of history is quite male centric. We are drawn to the dramatic events and the great men of them, instead of ordinary everyday history and life of the common (wo)man.

You might not buy this line of argumentation (which I myself do not do entirely), but it is food for thought.    

[Numtini]

I'm still trying to figure out who Orange is supposed to appeal to. The only thing I can think of really is progressives who are very concerned about the prison system. There is some Lifetime-esque "OMG suburban white woman in trouble!!!!" stuff going on, but it's just not whitewashed enough. Naked tits, other than at a spa, just aren't part of that genre.

[Paelos]

Just stop before this goes into politics.

Fuck that! Full steam ahead! 

[Hayduke]

I still want to know the male equivalent to Sex and the City though (so I can watch it).

Wasn't it called Entourage?  Hell it was even on the same network.

[Samwise]

I'm still trying to figure out who Orange is supposed to appeal to. The only thing I can think of really is progressives who are very concerned about the prison system.

That would be my sister, in theory, but her complaint about this show was that she thought it made light of what people in prison actually go through.  I'm not sure if she actually watched the show before passing that judgement, though.

[Engels]

I'm not sure if she actually watched the show before passing that judgement, though.

There's a bit of that going around. And seriously folks, give it till the 3rd episode to pass judgment. I know that in the first episode the main character is cringe-worthy, and that's sort of the point. I know, I know, people say this about a bunch of shows I can't be arsed to watch, but at least I'm not asking to wade through 2 entire seasons 'before it gets good', like I've been asked to do with Breaking Bad.

[Nevermore]

Breaking Bad is awesome from the very beginning.  

[Samwise]

Yeah, I actually like the first season of Breaking Bad the best.  Less fantastic, more relatable.