Dark Souls 2

[grebo]

I think my most common death is being stunlocked because I'm a hair of a second too slow on the shield button.  I have 20 in adp but I block too slow all the time.  Also plenty of just ending up in the wrong place/being surrounded, randomly backing off ledges, backed into a corner and can't see shit because camera is retarded, randomly missing the guy I'm swinging at even when he's targeted, just stupid deaths from frustration and trying to run by everything..

But seeing the next bonfire finally sure is nice, even though I know it's just a gateway to more traps, death and attrition.

My guy has bandit armor from +6 - +9, dragonrider shield and either the halberd+10 or the craftsman hammer +3 depending on which hits harder.  Also I don't mind using my long bow +6 whenever possible.

It's possible I suck at this, but I'm still going to finish it.

[jakonovski]

Finished this last night, took me 65 hours. I don't know if it was any easier moment to moment, but it certainly was more forgiving with respecs and all.

I hoarded all my stuff and leveled specific weapons or scepticed miracles for the bosses that gave me trouble. Lightning Spear for the Old Iron King (and most things afterwards, lol), Smelter Sword for Duke's Dearest Freya (also worked great for the final battle!). Heide Lance took care of all the shitty armoured late game enemies, but was unable to hit certain enemy types due to some weird bug. Shield wise it was weird, the super early Old Knight's Shield turned out to be the best shield in the game.

edit: armor wise, I wore the Archdrake chest for the whole game. Great weight/stat ratio! Then it was just Jester's Cap once I got it, and Alonne for the rest. I tried the +crit gloves, whatever they're called, but it never procced for me.

[Falconeer]

Shield wise it was weird, the super early Old Knight's Shield turned out to be the best shield in the game.

That was weird to me too. Nothing topped the Tower Shield, if anything because nothing else in the game has 100% physical damage mitigation and 70 stability. And that sucked, cause there are so many beautiful shields in the game but I was stuck with that basic moving wall.

[jakonovski]

I had high hopes for the spell deflecting shields, but I never managed to get them to reflect stuff back to the enemy. Seemed it just went randomly wherever.

[Yegolev]

Nothing topped the Tower Shield, if anything because nothing else in the game has 100% physical damage mitigation and 70 stability.

I'm using the Drangleic Shield, works fine for what I'm doing.  I stopped adding carry weight once I could wear the Drangleic set, which is the best mid-weight armor that I have found at my admittedly early stage.  I've tried a few other weapons but nothing beats the Drangleic Sword, either.  I figure at some point I'll stop putting points in STR/DEX/END/ADP and do VIT until I can wear something ridiculous, but not 100% on that.

Hmm, so where am I?  Two bosses down in FFG, the easier boss in Heide, those three skeleton dudes, and I'm almost ready to stab me a Hutt on Earth Mountain or whatever it is.  Yeah, I know, so don't listen to me.

[Falconeer]

I'm curious to know if any of you has tackled the super high level optional

[Falconeer]

It's hard to say that the Souls game have an interesting story although it is not hard to say, in my opinion, that the lore is simply fantastic. Maybe it's because I am a fan of the untold as opposed to the excessivley manifest, but I think that even when the end result can be utterly disappointing (I was so unsatisfied at the end of Dark Souls 1), it's only by paying attention at all the details that one can reailize how rich and unique the setting really is.

Dark Souls 2's story is certainly more organic than Dark Souls 1's (and it made me think a lot about the other discussion we are having in a different thread about Blizzard's lore and how stories in recent games are often worse than what they were when games left a lot to imagination and speculation), but it is almost as hard to find and follow it as an easter egg. Dark Souls 2 has a very light-to-non-existent story at first look, while the actual point is to actually hide it from all the players who wouldn't care about it anyway, while providing an extra puzzle game inside the game for those interested in putting all the pieces together scattered around in items descriptions and cryptic dialogue's lines. While the original design this might have been based on a lack of resources, I think it gives a lot to think about on the matter of storytelling when we realize how much can still be achieved through written words (seriously, half ot it is in the item descriptions) and blanks for the players to fill instead of expensive cutscenes or obvious and pedantic NPC blabber.

I think this video sums the experience up very well: ** MASSIVE ULTRA SPOILERS IN THIS VIDEO - Don't watch it unless you have completed the game at least once. **

[Falconeer]

Coming out tomorrow on Steam and even though I was terrified of the porting, I checked things and seems like the game is 100% faithful to the console version with the added bonus of higher textures and framerate. So I caved and decided to re-buy it cause having it on Steam will make it easier for me to replay it in the future.

One thing that might not be public knowledge (we discussed it in the previous pages):

- The torches were supposed to play a huge part in the original concept of the game due to the advanced lighting system. There were going to be plenty of areas where not having a torch would have made you blind, actually forcing you to choose between having a shield in your left hand or... being able to see! What happened is that From Software literally downgraded the graphics of the game to make sure the framerate stayed consistent on the console versions, and as a result they had to completely drop their original light/dark design and make the game brighter (!) across the board. This is particularly visible in some comparative videos between the build shown more than a year ago and what we have now. Texture are much less refined, but most importantly light is a completely different story.

In this videos (Part 1 and Part 2) it is clearly visible how some enemies just appear out of the dark, while things are never really hard to see in the launch version. Let's not forget the development codename for this game was Project Dark.

From Software had to publish some sort of an aplogy for the downgrade, mentioning how they had no choice.

Bottom line. The PC version looks better, but the lighting is the same as the console version.

[Velorath]

- The torches were supposed to play a huge part in the original concept of the game due to the advanced lighting system. There were going to be plenty of areas where not having a torch would have made you blind, actually forcing you to choose between having a shield in your left hand or... being able to see! What happened is that From Software literally downgraded the graphics of the game to make sure the framerate stayed consistent on the console versions, and as a result they had to completely drop their original light/dark design and make the game brighter (!) across the board. This is particularly visible in some comparative videos between the build shown more than a year ago and what we have now. Texture are much less refined, but most importantly light is a completely different story.

I think that gameplay idea is a bit shit anyway because it ends up favoring certain builds over others.

[Margalis]

Tomb of the Giants was one of my most disliked sections of DS1. I'm happy with torches being more optional. Having one hand constantly taken up by an item that serves very little gameplay purpose and restricts your available options sounds annoying.

A game where you have to constantly carry a torch in one hand sounds fine, but not in Dark Souls.

[lesion]

I am immensely terrible at this game. It's...pretty sad.

[Falconeer]

Coming from Dark Souls 1 the first few days in DS2 are devastating for your ego. You have to relearn a lot. It only lasts a few days though.

High Definition is glorious. It takes away some of the blurry gloomy magic of the consoles version, but it's crisp as hell and it really plays the same so far. I am playing it with the PS3 pad and seems like this is a very well done port for once.

[apocrypha]

I managed to get 20 mins in this morning, but was using mouse & keyboard and it felt awful. When I get time later I'll try with a controller.

What's considered an "easy" starting class? If I pick something like warrior will that leave me without ranged options?

[murdoc]

Holy Hell, the mouse and keyboard are awful. I also love how the PC version just has all the controller icons - I have no idea which button is 'A' but thanks! Guess I will be playing this with a controller.

[apocrypha]

Can confirm, much better with controller.

Thread with known PC issues (so far): http://steamcommunity.com/app/236430/discussions/0/558754259718155271/

[Yegolev]

What's considered an "easy" starting class? If I pick something like warrior will that leave me without ranged options?

I found starting as a sorceror to be kinda brutal compared to melee.  On the other hand, the knights at Heide's are easy.  On the original hand, FFG is not so easy.

[lesion]

Coming from Dark Souls 1 the first few days in DS2 are devastating for your ego. You have to relearn a lot. It only lasts a few days though.

Good to know, thanks.

[jakonovski]

I think the key lessons in combat are as follows:

[Khaldun]

Really, I bought this for PC, so I didn't not FUCKING EXPECT that it would be "you needs controller". If PC = don't make it controller-or-you-die.

[Zetor]

I'm amused that they managed to make keyboard/mouse controls even WORSE than DS1 in many ways... that's quite an achievement! 

[Falconeer]

Dark Souls 1 on Steam had a big red box in the store page saying "WARNING! YOU NEED A CONTROLLER TO PLAY THIS!". Surprisingly enough they removed such warning from Dark Souls 2 and replaced it with "Improved Mouse+Keyboard controls!", which doesn't make any sense simply because this game HAS to be played with a controller. That's really unfair.

That said, if you didn't spend the last 5 years on the moon and you happened to be interested in the *Souls games you'd probably know that there's no way these can be played without a controller, no matter what the marketing baits say.

[Velorath]

Playing a Souls game with a mouse and keyboard to me would be like trying to play a racing game with a mouse and keyboard. It's probably technically possibly but I have no idea why somebody would want to do it.

[Ginaz]

Hmm, if I can't play it with a M&K then I guess I won't be playing at all.  I tried playing Demon's Souls on the PS3 with a controller and quit a few hours in because I hated playing it with a controller.  I then tried Dark Souls on the PC with M&K and it was completely unplayable.  Oh well, more time for Hex I guess.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hmm, if I can't play it with a M&K then I guess I won't be playing at all.  I tried playing Demon's Souls on the PS3 with a controller and quit a few hours in because I hated playing it with a controller.  I then tried Dark Souls on the PC with M&K and it was completely unplayable.  Oh well, more time for Hex I guess.

You are really, really missing out.

[Zetor]

Playing a Souls game with a mouse and keyboard to me would be like trying to play a racing game with a mouse and keyboard. It's probably technically possibly but I have no idea why somebody would want to do it.

I played through DS1 with kb&m (see lack of controller below) because my friends kept telling me how awesome a game it is (and yeah, it is). The dsfix and dsmfix mods made it bearable, and I played a caster so I could just soul spear my way through half of the game anyway. It was still an inferior experience (camera turning speed was completely crap, for one, which made backstabbing unnecessarily difficult), but I completed it without an overly large number of deaths (probably because I played a sorcerer, not because I managed to git gud).

Now DS2? They've been saying in their PR releases that they designed it to be a proper kb&m experience this time... and then they went ahead and fucked some things up even worse than they were in (unmodded) DS1! If it was just about failing to take advantage of the kb/m features (there's a full keyboard available, why can't I use it to select individual items/spells instead of just scrolling through them? why can't I directly jump to the equipment or stats screen whenever I want? etc), I'd shrug and move on... but they really managed to screw things up on a basic level here. I won't post the laundry list, but the clownshoes are pretty big.

FWIW, It's still possible to play with kb&m (I just got past the forest of fallen giants), but with the exception of a few UI elements, it's even more frustrating to play than DS1 was. That is not a good thing when you're claiming that your game is kb&m compliant. As for why I don't want to use a controller -- there are a few reasons, the biggest one being that I don't have one. Even if I went out and bought a controller for a ridic amount of $, I'd then have to learn an entirely new control scheme from scratch (the last controller I used was the NES) and I doubt I'd be using the controller in any other PC games either. So yeah, kb&m or no sale.

e: to be fair, mouselook actually works OK, and it's way more responsive than it was in DS1 + dsfix + dsmfix. When it comes to using the mouse to do stuff, however... yea.

[Falconeer]

I am the fiercest defender of the mouse in pretty much all instances. It's just such a good gaming tool, in all possible situations. That said, Demon's Souls and its sequels have been thought and designed to work fantastically well with a PS3/XboX controller and I dare to say that the control scheme played a good part in the success of the series. After some adjusting, the controller begins to melt with your fingers and and starts to feel like the weapons you are wielding, and it creates a perfect symbiosis between the player and the game that is rarely achieved in anything else. Bottom line: if a game ever needed to be played with a controller, it's this one.

The problem is that they allow people without a controller to buy it, because they like money. They should not. It should just prevent you from buying it unless the system detects you have a controller plugged in. As I said, it's misleading and unfair that they let people think this can be enjoyed with keyboard and mouse. I don't know, can you play football with ballerina shoes or can you climb a mountain with hush puppies? Probably, but you really shouldn't and someone should let you know that before you buy (And we have been).

[Lakov_Sanite]

A controller is just a peripheral, why avoid ever using one unless you just hate yourself?

[Zetor]

A controller is just a peripheral, why avoid ever using one unless you just hate yourself?

I listed plenty of reasons in my post. To me the question sounds more like: why would I want to spend money (to buy) and time (to familiarize myself / build muscle memory / etc) on a controller that I have never used, and will never use in the first place unless I just hate myself?

edit to be somewhat more constructive: seriously, over here it's quite common for people to not own any consoles, never mind console controllers for the PC. The PC master race cares not for your trinkets!  (or more likely, people in Eastern Europe are too poor to afford anything beyond a PC...)

[Falconeer]

edit to be somewhat more constructive: seriously, over here it's quite common for people to not own any consoles, never mind console controllers for the PC. The PC master race cares not for your trinkets!  (or more likely, people in Eastern Europe are too poor to afford anything beyond a PC...)

Just to clarify: I understand and empathize with what you say up here. That's why I don't blame you for not having a controller, seriously. I blame them for selling a game that NEEDS a controller telling people it doesn't. That's a lie.

[Typhon]

I wonder if I wait long enough will they get the game working with my xbox controller without having to unplug every other peripheral.   Given that I see that DS 1 had these same issues, I'm guessing 'no' is the answer.

 

[jakonovski]

A really cool article, provocatively titled "Is Dark Souls 2 the Worst Game Ever Made?" (includes some spoilers)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelthomsen/2014/04/25/is-dark-souls-ii-the-worst-game-ever-made/

[Lakov_Sanite]

In that review he states "I hated the first dark souls" an that is all you need to know about it.  That reviewer is so full of shit he might be a boss in dark souls three called crapulous. The whole thing smacks of taking down the popular game a peg for no reason but it gives him cred.

[jakonovski]

I don't think the point of that article was to initiate an internet slapfight on what are the best gamezzz.

edit: I think his point was that he's the type to play DS games obsessively, and thanks to the gameplay, setting and cyclic nature of it all, he ends up feeling bummed out after those hundreds of hours. Which I can totally identify with, when it comes to certain multiplayer shooters. The article is written in a very hard to read manner, but I think that's an attempt to emulate what playing the game feels like. In any case I find it amusing.

[Lakov_Sanite]

There was no point in that article at all.  He is just defecating all over his keyboard

[jakonovski]

There was no point in that article at all.  He is just defecating all over his keyboard

Jesus, take a chill pill dude. And read my edit for actual content.