Nextbox infinity anticipation station

[Merusk]

And no cows were slaughtered on that day.  Other than not having played ME3 you're not wrong on any of those, Ingmar.

Original X-Com is loved for the nostalgia and because it was a rare gem at the time.  It suffered from some pretty big flaws, just like the new one. (Though it had some nicer bits I wish the new one had *cough blaster bombs and better map randomization*)

[Fabricated]

The original XCOM was a classic from the days of DOS gaming when apparently everyone who played games was secretly autistic.

The original XCOM was a classic from the days of DOS gaming when apparently everyone who played games was secretly autistic.

Secretly?

Okay yeah you kinda had to be to play nearly anything DOS-era. Myself included; I was (and still am) a big fan of adventure games and my favorites were Sierra's where you had to click on every pixel on the screen lest you miss this one item that you need to beat the game but isn't used until 9 hours later after you've saved a bunch past the point of no return.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Fuck you Gabriel Knight. Fuuuuuuuuck youuuuuuuuuu.

[HaemishM]

Talk about killing sacred cows - I'm about 15-20 hours into my first time playing Baldur's Gate and I haven't touched it in weeks because I want to play something else. I can see the classic nature of the game and it's accomplishments, but holy fuck the lack of modern day conveniences for gameplay is REALLY ANNOYING. It also reminds me how much of a cockpunch games (especially RPG's) used to be.

[jakonovski]

Okay yeah you kinda had to be to play nearly anything DOS-era. Myself included; I was (and still am) a big fan of adventure games and my favorites were Sierra's where you had to click on every pixel on the screen lest you miss this one item that you need to beat the game but isn't used until 9 hours later after you've saved a bunch past the point of no return.

13 yo. me was stuck for weeks on the monkey wrench puzzle in Monkey Island 2. And people wondered how I learned English so fast.

[Paelos]

Talk about killing sacred cows - I'm about 15-20 hours into my first time playing Baldur's Gate and I haven't touched it in weeks because I want to play something else. I can see the classic nature of the game and it's accomplishments, but holy fuck the lack of modern day conveniences for gameplay is REALLY ANNOYING. It also reminds me how much of a cockpunch games (especially RPG's) used to be.

Yeah I made it 5 hours in that game before declaring it one of those rose-colored things people like. The mechanics of the game drove me nuts.

[Miasma]

You must gather your party before venturing forth.

[Paelos]

I enjoyed the Radicalthons of it, much like I enjoy the Dwarf Fortress ones. However, I don't want to play it myself.

[Merusk]

Yeah, if you didn't grow-up playing older RPGs, don't go back and play them.  You don't have the time and patience for it because of modern tastes.

[Fabricated]

My favorite part is that anyone who isn't a fighter can die in one hit until damn near the end of the game even on normal where everyone gets max HP rolls.

[Phred]

To give the industry some credit the 15 minutes EA spent trying to do new IPs/ideas didn't turn out to be all that profitable (Mirror's Edge for example). Gamers are part of the problem.

I tend to go along with a critique I saw on youtube where the author said the game suffered from obvious marketing influences late in the game. How it was clearly designed to be a sand box then marketing forced them to slip in the stupid combat sequences. So it looks like even when they try to do new ip/ideas the old thinking is given too much weight.


Ah found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaY4W_2NIEM

I really like this guy's videos. No obnoxious personality traits or grating voice or poor deliver to much up the message.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, if you didn't grow-up playing older RPGs, don't go back and play them.  You don't have the time and patience for it because of modern tastes.

I did grow up playing those games... but RPG's have moved WAY past Baldur's Gate. For that matter, they've moved well the fuck past AD&D or I should say, the bastardized version of AD&D that was being used on BG1. And what's funnier is that on sandboxy/open world games, I often find myself losing interest without some directed bit of handholding. I don't need linear, YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS PATH FOR THE FUN, MONSTERS HERE sign leading me along by the nose, but I think that was one of the things about Mass Effect 1 that I liked. Outside of the bookend opening and ending thirds, you get to decide which order you play the parts in. Yes, the end result is the same so it's not open-ended but I like a bit more directed experience. My almost 40+ hours of Skyrim are spread across 6-months difference because I'll play it hard for a few weeks then OOOOH SHINEY and play something else for months.

As for indie games... I'm continually amazed at the indie game scene. There are a few clever jewels hidden amongst a veritable sea of 8-bit WE LOVED MARIO fanfics. I didn't play Mario much when it was on the NES, why the fuck would I pay to play it now? I often find it hard to go back to lower graphics standards - I'm absolutely spoiled by the shiney. The game doesn't HAVE to have ultra shiney to be good, but a game has to be really good to make me put up with fucking 8-bit graphics. I didn't ride the Minecraft wave because I just didn't get it. It's TOO sandboxy for me and too 8-bit. All the me-too's trying to get some of that sweet Minecraft money can go fuck off.

If Portal had been 2D sprites, I wouldn't have played it, nor would I have loved it as much. Call me shallow or tasteless if you wish, but them's the facts.

[Margalis]

Your beret is showing. Fuck me that was a really obnoxious set of paragraphs about how other people's tastes are so terrible. While your thoughts may have some merit in relation to the truly BAD taste most people have in well... everything, you still sound condescending as fuck. People like what they like, even if it is utter shit.

You forgot to call me a hipster. 5/10.

[Margalis]

I tend to go along with a critique I saw on youtube where the author said the game suffered from obvious marketing influences late in the game. How it was clearly designed to be a sand box then marketing forced them to slip in the stupid combat sequences. So it looks like even when they try to do new ip/ideas the old thinking is given too much weight.

The weakest part of Mirror's Edge is the gunplay, which was presumably kept to make it more mainstream. Not only is it bad and goes against the spirit of the game but it also put the game in a space where it was compared unfavorably to straight-up shooters.

Dead Space was a decent success until they ran it into the ground by trying to make it more actiony. So out of the two new IPs EA put out as their big new IP push both to some degree were victims of old thinking.

[Fordel]

Where's my indie Link of the past ripoff or whatever :(

-edit-
No, its TO the past?

Isn't it?



I don't remember now!  



-edit 2-

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past


MYSTERY SOLVED!

[HaemishM]

Your beret is showing. Fuck me that was a really obnoxious set of paragraphs about how other people's tastes are so terrible. While your thoughts may have some merit in relation to the truly BAD taste most people have in well... everything, you still sound condescending as fuck. People like what they like, even if it is utter shit.

You forgot to call me a hipster. 5/10.

You'd have been a hipster if you favored 8-bit indie games instead of the big budgie ones. No, you were just being a condescending douche of the regular variety.

[Margalis]

Where's my indie Link of the past ripoff or whatever :(

You mean Binding of Isaac?

As far as indie games having bad graphics, I've of mixed opinion on it. Good art is time consuming and costly, so I certainly understand not having good art. However I think the go-to solution of creating "retro 8-bit" graphics is often flawed for a couple reasons, not the least of which is that the sprite art usually simply isn't as good as it was in that era. Anyone can make sprite art but good sprite art takes a lot of talent to create. I would be much more receptive to retro-styled games if their graphics were at least on par with what they were aping.

8-bit games had very small staffs, if you are making an indie game with an 8-bit aesthetic there's no resource reason why your graphics shouldn't be as good as actual 8-bit games. And actual sprite-based games had all sorts of restrictions on sprite sizes, counts and palettes that modern games don't have, so in theory you should be able to do better.

[Fordel]

I'm totally sincere, do those kinds of games exist? There's like 500,000 hardcore plat formers and shit, but I can't seem to find an old school Zelda style game. The nearest was Bastion combat wise, but it's still not really a Zelda game.


Binding of Isaac, never heard of it, doesn't look like what I am talking about from the steam video though.

[Margalis]

Binding of Isaac is basically a randomly generated Zelda 1/3 dungeon, down to mimicking stuff like the look of the walls, doors and screen transitioning effect. It's just a dungeon though, there's no broader game.

"Indie puzzle platformer with a novel art style" certainly does seem to make up the vast bulk of indie games. You have to wonder if they are actually copying old platforming games or if at this point they are more copying each other. The indie scene is definitely prone to the same sort of me-too-ism that plagues big publishers.

[Jeff Kelly]

Talk about killing sacred cows - I'm about 15-20 hours into my first time playing Baldur's Gate and I haven't touched it in weeks because I want to play something else. I can see the classic nature of the game and it's accomplishments, but holy fuck the lack of modern day conveniences for gameplay is REALLY ANNOYING. It also reminds me how much of a cockpunch games (especially RPG's) used to be.

Do you want to know the best thing? I know this because Chris Avellone or Josh Sawyer told this in an interview. Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale remember how often you have saved/reloaded before as fight and each time you reload MAKE THAT FIGHT HARDER THAN BEFORE.

The feeling that old school rpg developers hated their customers and fans - pretty much true. I have a failed Icewind Dale 2 save where I leterally couldn't finish a particular fight because of that.

[HaemishM]

That so totally makes sense. I'm running through Firewind Dungeon just getting overrun with pockets of fucking kobolds to the point where I'm saving after every fight. Turn a corner - FIREBALL WIZARD OGRE DEAD.

I haven't played since.

[Ingmar]

Firewine Bridge is really the only stupid area like that. It's IMO the biggest 'wtf' in the series. Tiny cramped area, infinite respawns, whyyyyyyyy?

[HaemishM]

So are you telling me it's completely skippable?

[Ingmar]

Yeah, it isn't involved with the main plot at all. If you really want to you can figure out where the respawn points are and park people at them (the kobolds will only respawn if you can't see the place where they'd appear) but there's honestly not much point to it anyway. You just miss out on a little side quest xp from some things. It certainly won't make you miss hitting the level cap or anything.

[Fordel]

Talk about killing sacred cows - I'm about 15-20 hours into my first time playing Baldur's Gate and I haven't touched it in weeks because I want to play something else. I can see the classic nature of the game and it's accomplishments, but holy fuck the lack of modern day conveniences for gameplay is REALLY ANNOYING. It also reminds me how much of a cockpunch games (especially RPG's) used to be.

Do you want to know the best thing? I know this because Chris Avellone or Josh Sawyer told this in an interview. Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale remember how often you have saved/reloaded before as fight and each time you reload MAKE THAT FIGHT HARDER THAN BEFORE.

The feeling that old school rpg developers hated their customers and fans - pretty much true. I have a failed Icewind Dale 2 save where I leterally couldn't finish a particular fight because of that.

They are the DM's that think its them vs. the party 

[Rendakor]

I had a DM like that for many, many years.

[Kageru]

Some of these "retro" games aren't really competing with the old classics since those predate a lot of the gamers. But I think it's mostly about art resources.

I think a more important way to view it is that if there is going to be innovation it won't happen on the Xbox. The target market, vendor interest, retail interest and publishing model are all based on big hit games and a broad demographic. And that demographic is easily seduced by the shiny. The model of steam / greenlight allows a lot more possibility for strange things to bubble up. Or if it is good enough, like a minecraft, just having an open platform is enough. Certainly looks like there's enough attempts at something different to me with gunpoint, kerbal space program, a player generated TF2 expansion, a player generated horror mod, FTL and prison architect on the featured games page.

Most games are identical if you look on them from a thousand feet up. You push the button and things move on screen. Having enjoyable mechanics done well with a new twist, story or content to consume isn't really a tragedy.

[Jeff Kelly]

I agree even though greenlight is pretty much considered to be a failure by developers

[Ingmar]

I agree even though greenlight is pretty much considered to be a failure by developers

[citation needed]

I need an emote for that.

[Kageru]

You shouldn't, because it's meaningless. It makes sense in a formal literature of which "my belief is that developers think" is not.

Gabe has pretty much said Greenlight is flawed, but better than the system they had previously. The difference is the intent, they want a system where games with interesting qualities or a motivated community can make it into broad distribution. And his comments on making the store-front available so gaming communities can have their own store fronts and acceptance guidelines is a very interesting approach.

The focus in xbox-land? "Callowfdooty". A proprietary platform demands block-busters to sell millions of their TV controller.

[koro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifa9Q7ATfVA

Here, have an Xbone UI preview.

[Jeff Kelly]

The title caption reads Wired but the video feels like an infomercial. The reporter guy is even setting up the PR people and giving then cues to base their PR on 

[Margalis]

[citation needed]

I need an emote for that.

Uh...basically all developers hate Greenlight, there is a ton of negative writing about it everywhere. It's horrible.

It's a bad concept executed poorly, and far worse than what Sony and Nintendo offer. I could go into detail but it's easy to find critiques all over the place. The "strength" of Greenlight is that PC development is easy and cheap and that getting onto Steam is a big deal. The actual system itself is atrocious.

The focus in xbox-land? "Callowfdooty". A proprietary platform demands block-busters to sell millions of their TV controller.

Anyone can make an XBox game with XNA and self-publish it. It's trivially easy to get on Xbox vs on Steam.

[Paelos]

Might be actually helpful to link something when you mention that it's everywhere.

[01101010]

If I see another god damn article discussing the hand controller I am going to open my 6-demon bag. Seriously... just stop it.