Nextbox infinity anticipation station

[HaemishM]

The whole box won't work if Kinect is disabled. So you either accept that MS will see you through the camera or you have a non-functioning console (or you simply won't buy such crap)

DING DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNAR LADIES AND GENTS!

Fuck this shit. From the Wii U to the PS4 to this fucking piece of shit can go fuck itself in the Kinect-hole. It's almost like Microsoft wants me to go buy a PC for games. 

[koro]

The whole box won't work if Kinect is disabled. So you either accept that MS will see you through the camera or you have a non-functioning console (or you simply won't buy such crap)

DING DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNAR LADIES AND GENTS!

Fuck this shit. From the Wii U to the PS4 to this fucking piece of shit can go fuck itself in the Kinect-hole. It's almost like Microsoft wants me to go buy a PC for games. 

Well, you won't be buying a PC for Microsoft's games. 

[Polysorbate80]

The whole box won't work if Kinect is disabled. So you either accept that MS will see you through the camera or you have a non-functioning console (or you simply won't buy such crap)

I envision splicing in some extra cable and parking the Kinect out in my chicken coop.  I wonder what it would make of that?

[Fabricated]

Or just put a cap over the fucking lens.

[HaemishM]

Well, you won't be buying a PC for Microsoft's games. 

I am literally heartbroken. 

[Paelos]

So what's to stop me from taking a pic of my living room with me in it from my TV, hanging it in front of the camera like a carrot on a stick, and calling it a day?

Hell, we could manufacture the devices here on F13 and make millions.

[Trippy]

So what's to stop me from taking a pic of my living room with me in it from my TV, hanging it in front of the camera like a carrot on a stick, and calling it a day?

Hell, we could manufacture the devices here on F13 and make millions.

Kinect 2 can distinguish between living things and inanimate objects. Seriously.

[Paelos]

Welp, fuck that system then. It's getting none of my money.

I really wanted a console this time. 

[Jeff Kelly]

I wasn't being glib.

Microsoft has stated that the XBox One wil not work without Kinect. Certain people of the press have asked MS employees at the event if the Kinect camera can be disconnected or disabled and MS spokepersons have told them that the XBox One requires Kinect and simply will not be usable without.

It doesn't matter if you put a cap on the lens or a post-it or something else. You want an XBox One? You better like having a camera and microphone pointed at you at all times or you won't even be able to play games.

Ridiculous? Yes. Alas it's true.

Don't have a living room large enough or uncluttered enough for Kinect to work? Tough luck, you should probably work more to be able to afford a bigger house then.

That this will essentially hamper sales is just the ironic cherry on top of that fail cake.

[Jeff Kelly]

This essentially decides if I should buy an XBox One. Even if I wasn't bothered by the always on console with hi-def camera and mic I wouldn't be able to use the new XBox.

My living room isn't large enough for the old or new Kinect to work at all. So I would buy a console that would just refuse to work at all.

It's ridiculous because there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't be able to use the new XBox without Kinect but I probably won't buy a bigger apartment just so that I will be able to use a certain kind of game console.

[Trippy]

They've said the Kinect 2 will work in small rooms like bedrooms. So you can "authenticate" on it fine if it's not in a living room, you just might have trouble using it as a motion controller.

[Kageru]

Well, you won't be buying a PC for Microsoft's games. 

yes... when the "high-end" of ports to PC is a mobile game you know they actively want to avoid games on windows. Other than those which drive their agenda of turning it into a tablet OS.

It somewhat flies in the face of more cross-platform games now that libraries and middle-ware are more mature and they need the widest possible market to deal with escalating development costs for the big name titles. But I guess microsoft figures they are the ones wielding the whip and writing the contracts if you want it on the platform.

[Jeff Kelly]

What Microsoft US considers small might not be a small room in other parts of the world. Kinect 1 requires (according to the instruction manual) an 8 by 8 foot space in front of the console to accomodate two players and a 6 by 6 foot space for a single player.

Thats 1,8m by 1,8m of obstacle free space in front of the TV for a single player or 2,4m by 2,4m for a two player setup. This might be a medium sized room in the US. I don't know anybody over here who has rented or owns a house or apartment and has rooms that are large enough to accomodate a 2 by 2 m space in front of the TV that doesn't have any furniture in it. My whole living room is not much larger than what KInect requires as free uncluttered space.

A room large enough to accomodate for 8 by 8 feet of unencumbered space would be a fucking large room anywhere in the EU and would be a prohibitively expensive room in Japan etc.

They'd have to reduce the requirements by quite a margin to make it usable anywhere else than just US suburbia.

[Jeff Kelly]

To give you an impression, in Germany apartments/houses have on average 65 m^2 of space, thats 700 square feet. If I assume a five room arrangement (2 bedrooms, kitchen bath, living room) then the 64 sq ft. required by Kinect is more than half the area of a single room. It's ridiculous.

They'd have to reduce it to 2 by 2 or maybe 4 by 4 feet to have any chance of it working in many if not most EU households or probably anywhere where population density is high and you don't have a whole fucking continent for just 300 million people.

But that's just a single detail in a grander picture.

I simply don't get Microsofts approach to the new XBox. The whole TV angle is US only basically. Hell nearly all of the non-gaming features presented at the event are US-only or only make sense in the US.

How can this be for a device that heavily relies on global sales and global reach to have any chance to be successful?

It's probably great that I can update my fantasy football team while watching ESPN if somebody explained to me what a fantasy football team or ESPN was and why I should care. It's probably great for Americans that the XBox will work with cable boxes but over here we don't really use dedicated receiver boxes any more. My cable and satellite reception is built into my TV and has been for maybe ten years now because we use standards that all TV providers use.

I can plug an external hard drive into my TV and DVR the shit out of my programmes so why do I need an XBox for something my current and previous TVs already did?

It's great that I can use voice commands or gestures to operate my TV if it had worked anywhere at all ever oh and also if most TVs over here wouldn't already support that.

It seems to me that MS has solved a problem that even US citizens aren't having anymore and that would have been great ten or fifteen years ago. But today? With the internet and phones and tablets chewing off more and more of the viewing market and internet streaming services now being shipped on fucking everything including refrigerators and toasters who really cares anymore if a game console can somehow also display traditional TV?

What's the angle? The XBox is all 'traditional media, yo motherfuckers' long after the general public has already moved on or cared about any of that shit.

Everything about that thing is so nineties, including Skype. Hey the XBox can now video chat. If MS is that desperate that they have to include their failed purchase of Skype as main feature of a new console launch then what? Touting a feature that hasn't been new for a decade and even at its heyday wasn't that popular to begin with smells of 'we can't really think of anything sensational either'

Oh they've also fucked Indie developers again. Indie developers will only be able to publish on XBox live arcade as it was on the 360. Any other sales channel requires a publisher or has to go through Microsoft games.

At least that was something Sony has down with Vita and PS3/4 in that they opened up their system for small dev houses and indie developers which has the chance of giving them a real edge next cycle.

If you enjoy small indie games like Fez, Journey and so on you should probably buy a PS4.

So can anybody that's smarter than me explain MS's strategy to me? Is there any or is MS so mired in their own failed policies (like the conecept of a set top box) that corporate policy trumps actual product development and they just cram every failed technology or service in there as some sort of hail mary pass?

[Kageru]

(beaten, but I agree.)

There's already articles confirming numerous features won't exist in Australia, and they haven't even got to releasing the details yet. Outside of the US it becomes much more just a game platform and I would hope the games do not mandate kinect control. Of course it also becomes a quite expensive games platform due to the extra crap you might well not want.

Another article stated they do have a house with rooms for what they consider "asian" and "euro" living rooms so I assume that means they at least consider it. But their focus is almost certainly the traditional large house, US style, living room.
 

[Phred]

The whole box won't work if Kinect is disabled. So you either accept that MS will see you through the camera or you have a non-functioning console (or you simply won't buy such crap)

Wonder what would happen if you put Vaseline on the lens or hung gauze over it. Just to muddy the reception a bit.

[Trippy]

It's probably great for Americans that the XBox will work with cable boxes but over here we don't really use dedicated receiver boxes any more. My cable and satellite reception is built into my TV and has been for maybe ten years now because we use standards that all TV providers use.

It should work if your TV has an HDMI out. You would plug the output of your TV into the Xbox One and then plug the output of the Xbox One back into your TV and then you will get all the fancy Xbox One overlays you can't use on your TV. Though of course if you need to, like, change channels, you can't do it through the Xbox One, cause it's not really Media Center device like a PC with a TV tuner hooked up to it is.

BTW this is what Google TV does (pass through overlays) and it failed miserably.

[Phred]

Well, you won't be buying a PC for Microsoft's games. 

I am literally heartbroken. 

This is why I still hate Microsoft and mock those who tear up and put on the white armor whenever they see the dreaded M$. Microsoft has such a good thing going with their operating system business but they are willing to shit all over their customers to try to leverage themselves into a completely different market. Suck it up XBox owners it's what PC gamers have been living with for years. I just hope they can't bribe enough companies that might make games I want to play to make them XBox exclusive because MS themselves have pretty well ruined every game publisher they have bought to the point where I haven't purchased a MS branded game in over 10 years.

[Jeff Kelly]

Why should any TV have HDMI out? Its whole purpose is to display things that are coming in over several inputs. Why should my TV output its signal over HDMI just so that the XBox can process it and then input it again over another HDMI port?

We heard you like TV so we put TV into your TV so that you can TV while you TV maybe?

[Trippy]

Why should any TV have HDMI out? Its whole purpose is to display things that are coming in over several inputs. Why should my TV output its signal over HDMI just so that the XBox can process it and then input it again over another HDMI port?

We heard you like TV so we put TV into your TV so that you can TV while you TV maybe?

That's a good question. I know there are high-end AV receivers that can matrix between multiple HDMI video inputs but looking at some of the higher end TVs I don't see any that have HDMI out for video. So I guess that won't work. So for somebody like you it's just a game/media console with no TV, which is probably for the best.

[Merusk]

It's probably great for Americans that the XBox will work with cable boxes but over here we don't really use dedicated receiver boxes any more. My cable and satellite reception is built into my TV and has been for maybe ten years now because we use standards that all TV providers use.

Time Warner, one of the biggest cable providers here, requires a set-top cable box for Digital Cable channels, regardless of your TVs capabilities.  So.. yeah, American problem.

[Trippy]

That's not true, you can use a CableCARD with Time Warner Cable service.

I use a CableCARD with my Comcast service to record digital channels on my PC.

[Jeff Kelly]

What's cable card? Is that some kind of interface card for PC?

How it usually works in the EU: Digital broadcasting is standardized and uses DVB (digital video broadcast) for cable, satellite and terrestrial distribution. The content encryption is also standardized. So while some cable TV providers still require you to buy their own boxes (for inexplicable reasons) most give you the option of just getting the chip card handling the decryption for their service.

You can then just use any TV or receiver that supports encrypted programming and simply put the smart card in there. Most mid to high end TVs come with built in support for digital and HD programming for cable, satellite and terrestrial and also support content encryption. Programming guides are also standard since its a feature of the DVB standard and so broadcasters can and do stream program guide info with their programming.

My TV supports:

Tuners for cable, satellite and terrestrial TV both analogue and digital and HD
Dual tuner setup so that you can record one program while you watch another
support for encrypted programming
Program guide feature
DVR feature if you plug in an USB flash drive or hard disc
internet connected via ethernet or wifi with youtube support
Can be remote controlled over WIFI or LAN with a smartphone app.

It will also work with any cable provider or TV subscription service anywhere in the EU. Thats a market including 22 different countries.

That TV is not even high end, it cost maybe $800 to $900 when I bought it two years ago.

So what problem is the XBox One actually solving for me?

[Trippy]

What's cable card? Is that some kind of interface card for PC?

No, it's a standard here in the US for viewing and recording digital cable programming. Normally you would plug the card into a TV that supports one so you can watch cable without needing a set top box. I have this card for my PC so I plug the CableCARD in there and can watch and record digital cable programming through Windows Media Center.

So what problem is the XBox One actually solving for me?

Fantasy football overlays, duh!

[HaemishM]

Don't worry, Jeff, it isn't just the Euros that don't need the XBone. Most of us Americans don't need that shit either.

[Chimpy]

I think the initial sales of the box by the non-gaming nerd public will probably still be decent. But I forsee a TON of returns because of the whole Kinect etc shit being unfeasible for people. Queue "refurbished XboxONE!" sales on Newegg etc within a month of the release date.

[Jeff Kelly]

Don't worry, Jeff, it isn't just the Euros that don't need the XBone. Most of us Americans don't need that shit either.

I know, man! I just try to make sense of the whole presentation.

Sony got ( somewhat justified) called out for not showing hardware but what they presented was solid. Switch to off the shelf hardware to make for easier development. Explicitely stating that it's a game console first but no media center or set top box. Offering the best performance setup for games. Focusing on indie developers, tighter integration with PS Vita etc.

The focus is to offer the best gaming experience and to open up the platform to as many potential developers as possible. Also to set up eventual download or internet distribution of games with preloading, downloading and background downloading built in.

One might disagree with Sony's focus or how well it will sell but at least it seems like they have a strategy and that they are comitted to it. A big improvement from the PS3 days.

They were even able to announce more games than MS and developers seem to like the capabilities of the PS4.

I still don't get what MS wants to achieve with the Xone. It feels like it was designed by commitee as if every department of Microsoft had the opportunity to integrate its pet project into the new device.

Kinect is an abject failure? Doesn't matter, make it mandatory for the next console and people have to love and use it.
We don't know what do do with Skype so let's make it the default audio and voice chat etc.

It's like MS bundled all of the unloved tech into a single device just so that people have to use them when they want to game.

The XBox One has achived critical mass by integrating all of the second rate Microsoft technologies nobodiy loved. It's the suckolarity.

[Jeff Kelly]

Ah, cable card is basically a proprietary US only version of a conditional access module with common interface.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_access_module)

Then why does the XBox not simply add a cable tuner and cable card slot and act as a a cable box? Any third rate assembled-in-china receiver I can buy over here in the German equivalent of best buy for $50 has a common interface slot that can accept any kind of conditional access module.

Shouldn't be a problem for MS if they so desperately want to add TV capabilities. The best thing? Would probably work in most other parts of the world as well.

[bhodi]

The Xbone is going to fail and fail hard, for all the reasons stated. Plus, ipad and casual games have been eating the fuck out of console marketshares for the last few years with no end in sight.

I feel like microsoft has really lost it's way, and they're trying to force a product on an indifferent market. I'm sure there will be plenty of buzz at release, and you'll get the standard lines of people waiting outside to grab one, but I expect things to turn sour very quickly.

[Jeff Kelly]

Where does that leave us though?

PC gaming is essentially dead even considering Steam and suffers from rampant piracy.
The Wii U bombed hard.
Handheld gaming has essentially always been Nintendo only.
AAA titles need a potentially large number of sales to be profitable and can't reliably attract those kinds of sales even on the current gen with a combined installed base of probably 120 million.

The two remaining next gen offerings potentially bomb as hard as the Wii U but at least need years to get to any sort of installed base current AAA titles need.
There are no triple A titles on iPad/iPhone or Android.

So what's next? If even titles selling 4 million+ copies are considered failures because costs have exploded this generation how can any studio justify the risk of going for the next gen with a vastly smaller installed base?

MS sold 70 million xboxes over its 8 year cycle and you now need to motivate 8% to 10% of that installed base to buy your game to turn a profit. With development costs for the next gen probably being higher how will a studio be sble to recoup those costs?

Is it really a great idea to focus on consoles if Samsung and Apple sell more potential gaming devices per year than MS sold in nearly a decade?

What's next in gaming?

[Morat20]

Microsoft would have been better off simply upgrading the 360, keeping the setup compatable enough to port the libraries of 360 stuff, and selling better integration of netflix and hulu with a smarter, better kinect control system. Basically not gone for "game changing" and more "Xbox 360 2.0". Keep the console market, keep the price cheaper, don't rock the boat.

The better, smarter Kinect that wasn't so goddamn intrusive and without the 'always on' big brother vibe, with an Xbox marketed as a console with a bunch of "And we've really taken steps to make Neflix, HBO and everyone else that wants in work even better!" and just let game makers and stuff decide what to tie in and how, and they'd have had a lower price point and fewer pissed off potential buyers.

They're not going to get the TV market or the social media users -- they're gonna see "game console" and ignore it. And the gamers are seeing a lot more price for a bunch of new shit that just pisses them off.


As for cablecards -- Time Warner doesn't like to advertise those (or at least didn't) and the only reason they -- or any other cable company -- offers them in the US is because Federal law requires it. Don't remember when, but I think it was either an FTC ruling or a Congressional law passed 15 or so years ago, around when DVR's started showing up.

Cable companies were trying to throw their weight around, make DVR's accessible only through their own hardware. (IE: If you had cable, you used the cable company's shitty DVR, not Tivo or whatever).

[Kageru]

It will fail or succeed like all other consoles. On how much "must have" content microsoft can buy or pressure into being console exclusive. They just take that for granted. And with microsoft having huge amounts of cash from their desktop monopoly, the big game companies like EA being terrified of open competition on the PC and a lot of gaming consumers buying what they are told they probably are not to worried. And then once you've bought the box they can convince you to subscribe to all their services and discard other smart-TV boxes.

A lot of it is going to depend on how good and how exclusive the game releases announcements are.

Of course it would amuse me infinitely if the removal of the discount represented by used games (not to mention pirates), a smaller and less keen installed base and massively increasing costs cause them to bleed money. Especially since they're going to have to pay to fight for TV content. But it's always risky to over-estimate the sophistication of the average console gamer.

[Kageru]

Where does that leave us though?

PC gaming is essentially dead even considering Steam and suffers from rampant piracy.

Not really, there's quite a lot of energy on the steam side, it's growing new IP rather than focusing on glossier retreads and steam has proven that reasonable prices and convenient DRM is very viable and diminishes piracy. Consoles self-destructing would be very positive boost, as would a steam-box making buying a gaming PC for the living room much simpler. Even if much of the growth is on mobile those games can easily cross over to PC.

But big retail, microsoft, and the big game companies really don't want this. So they'll do all they can to retard it. I mean that's basically the essence of this machine.

Whether or not the insane budgets of triple-A titles can continue to grow is certainly an interesting question, and that will be decided on this box, but really I'm not sure I'd be sad about that.

[Lakov_Sanite]

How well is microsofts tablet doing?

[Jeff Kelly]

MS is simply no longer in the position to get significant amounts of exclusive content.

Mostly because traditional media is also struggling and can no longer afford to limit its visibility or accessibility by getting into exclusive deals.

They can no longer afford to not be on all major platforms especially when the platforms they'd lose attract vastly more potential customers than the one they'd sign an exclusivity deal for.

MS would need to pay serious money to offset even the potential sales on PS3/4 let alone iOS/Android.

Take Tomb Raider or Dead Space for example, those games had been released for 360, PS 3 and PC and even that wasn't sufficient to attract enough sales.

Content providers and game devs basically need every set of eyeballs they can get to offset the loss from their crashing traditional business model.

Also MS is bleeding insane amounts of cash because the PC sector is going under and is severely affecting sales of Windows licenses, the only business unit apart from office that makes MS any kind of serious money.

This will preclude most kinds of exclusive deals so the XBone will have to succeed by its own merits.