Ender's Game

[Setanta]

I liked the book minus the Peter/Valentine bits. I don't know that I'll see the movie.

What really worries me is that I read that Old Man's War is going to be turned into a movie. I can see them fucking that up royally (I'd be happy to be wrong).

Ender's Game was going to be an average the second that the "secret" was leaked - in this case, the trailer.

[Trippy]

I am really starting to hate chosen ones.

I liked Ender's Game when it first came out but after reading the beginning of Seventh Son I realized what was going on with the whole Mormon chosen child schtick that was his thing back then (dunno if he's still writing that same sort of stuff now).

[naum]

From a FB friend (who is female and a school teacher):

Ender's Game was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Horrible writing and horrible acting. If you love the book, don't see it. If you have never read the book, don't see it. If you breathe oxygen, don't see it.

[Trippy]

The Rotten Tomatoes score is currently at 64%.

[Ghambit]

This movie has been out over 2 days and none of you bastards is reporting back.  Wtf good are you?   I can't wait any longer... seein it tonite.

[Mrbloodworth]

This movie has been out over 2 days and none of you bastards is reporting back.  Wtf good are you?   I can't wait any longer... seein it tonite.

I was about to ask if the movie was any good?

[Khaldun]

I've already decided that this is a Netflix film for me at best.

[Teleku]

Yeah, having seen middle'ish reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, and not much here (except for the par for the course beret discussions of the book  ), I'll probably go see Gra Endera tomorrow at my local Kinoteka.

[Venkman]

Is it really worth jumping on the premiere weekend of a movie with a lot of skepticism just so we can fight through the teenagers with nowhere else to go and risk a bad movie besides?

What really worries me is that I read that Old Man's War is going to be turned into a movie. I can see them fucking that up royally (I'd be happy to be wrong).

Hmm. Assuming they cram the series into a flick rather than just the first book, that could be an interesting business proposition. Last Vegas, the Reds, Old Mans War plays into these kind of Baby Boomer "second/third act" empowerment flicks. But unlike those two, a properly done OMW (heh) could have a pretty wide appeal. I'm sure they'll play down the politics, maybe tone down the green skin/science a bit (since though it's cool, even BrainPal is something we assume we'll have in our lifetimes).

But all that's just based on the idea somebody might make a movie someday.

In parallel, yes I can see them fucking it up all sorts of bad, doing shit like just drugging up people that keeps them old but allows them to cast like Clint Eastwood or some shit.

Actually, that maybe wouldn't be too terrible. Imagine a geriatric Expendables 

[Thrawn]

It was better than I expected, but just ok, it packs so much in trying to fit everything big from the book that most of the scenes don't feel well enough explained or deep enough.  Stuff that in the book was a big deal doesn't seem as important in the movie because you don't have the attachment to it or know the thoughts of the characters.  A friend I saw it with who hadn't read the book said the movie was ok, but that he enjoyed it much more after I explain some of the scenes and missing explanations to him.

[MahrinSkel]

Actually, that maybe wouldn't be too terrible. Imagine a geriatric Expendables 

You mean, Expendables 2? 


--Dave

[Hammond]

It was just ok and some of the parts felt fairly rushed / cut short. We tried to get into Bad Grampa but it was sold so this was our fall back. My buddy that went with me never read the books and he thought it was ok. I had hoped for some better special effects but for a sci-fi movie it really didn't deliver except the last space battle.

[Ghambit]

I liked the film and thought it was worthy a night out to the theatre.  Doubly-so if you've got a kid at home (for the life lessons).  The only notable acting job was Ender.  I thought everyone else was fairly mediocre, even Ford.  The shrink-lady was good too though.

Was it the best sci-fi?  heck no.  But definitely better then a mere netflix night.

[SurfD]

I enjoyed it.   As expected, they completely axed the Valentine + Peter political sideplot, which would have really contributed nothing to the movie being that it was all about Ender.   Stayed really faithful to the book.  Hit pretty much every major point regarding Enders progression through battle school to command school and ended well.  About the only thing I could really complain about was that while you do get some sense of Ender's development into a commander, it all came across as very rushed to fit it into the time frame of the movie.    If they ever did a director's cut, I think the movie could use a good 10 or 15 more minutes of "Battle School" training montage type scenes, where you get to see Ender's progress both before and after Dragon army is formed and the way his approach to things causes a big shift in the way things are done by the armies.  

[MediumHigh]

I liked this movie. In much the same way the nerd I am is just simply happy to see a movie like this made. It's a safe, safe, safe, adaptation of a book which could have been an hour longer if translated to film (and still not show the peter + valentine rise to power...by blogging). Instead this is the family friendly abridged version and it's not a bad thing, though kinda edging on the lazy side.  Those who came to see a 10-12 year old leave behind broken bodies in his wake, deal with the oppression of loneliness, get picked on, tortured physically and emotionally and ultimately rise above that....err no. But if you want to see Ender be awesome, get yelled at for no reason, and well have his tender "never really wanted to hurt anybody" moments, than this is your movie. Oh and they make him hella creepy in this one.

[Ghambit]

After seeing Thor, I thought this was better.

[Abagadro]

Heh. 62 percent second weekend drop. This thing is officially a bomb.

[WayAbvPar]

Heh. 62 percent second weekend drop. This thing is officially a bomb.

Maybe they can package it with the Atlas Shrugged series and then we can gas the whole theatre.

[Ironwood]

Oh, not sure that's fair.  I've boycotted it, but the subject matter's not quite the same !

[NowhereMan]

It's not a classic by any means but I thought it was a decent adaptation of a book (and considering the source material and being a Hollywood film it's probably a pretty great adaptation). Again saw it with someone who didn't know the story and I think they got more out of it with some gap filling from me but we both enjoyed it well enough. The nature of the film though (no immediate life or death danger, child stars in a non-child movie, etc.) means it was probably never going to be particularly successful. I could see it being the sort of thing that people would happily watch on television but aren't likely to take themselves to the cinema to see.

[dd0029]

The middle was a decent adaptation. I thought the mind game stuff went way better than it really had any right to. The setup and the conclusion were pants on head though.

[Hoax]

This was the worst movie I've seen in some time.

All I really feel the need to say is that they have Mazer Rackham flying an F-22 (or something, I don't care what kind of jet it was) in Earth's atmosphere when he defeats the Bugger's first invasion.

But beyond the fact that they got basically the entire book wrong. The movie just sucked. The special effects were only special for the final segment of the movie. The battle school fights were passable visually but really failed to convey much of what was going on, why it was going on or how Ender was special. The pacing was poor, most of the scenes had very little emotional impact and heaven help you if you don't know why those scenes were being shown. This had to be as bad as Half Blood Prince in terms of movies where you are fucked if you haven't read the book.

Just, yuck, really fucking awful movie. No idea why people were calling it ok.

[Khaldun]

My wife and daughter just watched this, knowing nothing about the book, and were like, "Eh, it's ok", but they were 100% confused about:

1) why is Ender special at all?
2) why do they need kids? why not just let the fleet command itself? or why not train adults?

Which as other folks noted here, is largely a result of the pacing of the film.

But it's also a bit of a result of the book itself, and why it doesn't really stand up when you re-read it as an adult. It's really just The Last Starfighter with a bunch of extra bullying, sadism and self-pity thrown in, as far as that goes--"only you can save the universe, and all the bullies will hate you because they know it."

[Setanta]

I can't remember if I posted here but anyway, this is what my Year 9 class and I thought:

Took my Year 9 English class to see this today as we studied it as a text this year. Most read it cover to cover, others had read some/most of it as it's a mixed ability class. I'll relay their views:
Ender/Valentine/Petra/Graff/Mazer were great interpretations although the film would have worked without the latter because he got minimal airtime/purpose
The actors who played these were spot on as were the supporting cast
Bean didn't reflect Ender the way he did in the book
Anderson = pointless character
Battle school was underwhelming and stifled the rise of Ender from despised to revered leader. Instead it just showed him to be perfect. Bozo and team then Ender vs 2 teams leading to:
Dink - WTF? Dink is the only one who actually had an idea about the adults and their games and shows that Ender is not perfect in the book - doesn't happen in the film
Bozo is smaller than Ender? Was this part all supposed to be comedy?
The mind game - a good interpretation but limited. It did the job - just
Petra doesn't crack in the final battles. This is pivotal in the audience understanding that something is wrong.
Valentine/Peter shouldn't have even been introduced for all they contribute to the film - this from a kid that struggled through the Locke and Demosthenes parts of the book yet was pissed off that it was missing.
Final battle was well done but lacking in impact when Ender realises it wasn't a game. Not the actor's fault, just the lack of depth in script.
Location change for finale was acceptable given movie constraints and the scene with the queen was good.

We'd talked about Card's views and controversy as a class and judged the text on its merits, not the shortcomings of the author. Many liked the book, some didn't. Interestingly those that liked it were from all levels of ability. One of my less academic students was proud of the fact that he read it and enjoyed it.

Overwhelmingly the consensus was that the film was enjoyable yet didn't do justice to the book. They liked it, but liked the book more (even the ones that "didn't like reading it")
As excursions/lessons go, it was a good day - popcorn was ok

[Hoax]

But it's also a bit of a result of the book itself, and why it doesn't really stand up when you re-read it as an adult. It's really just The Last Starfighter with a bunch of extra bullying, sadism and self-pity thrown in, as far as that goes--"only you can save the universe, and all the bullies will hate you because they know it."

I dislike Card the human being as much as the next guy if not more but get the fuck out of here. 

[Khaldun]

I just re-read it recently and really it is ultimately not at all clear even in the book:

a) why it's got to be kids except for Card's hand-wavy, vague ideas that in his future there is a sort of unspecific eugenics that is breeding kids who are so much smarter than everyone else that they can do stuff ordinary military guys can't do;
b) which is further expressed with the Peter and Valentine stuff that almost everyone now agrees is just kind of  , since no amount of eugenics is going to create kids who can take over world politics with two blogs
c) the alleged greatness of the kids in Battle School is mostly expressed or explored in terms of a physical game that has tactical components--when there really is almost nothing about the kids that is alleged to be physically extraordinary, it's supposed to be about their minds and personalities. And really none of them besides Ender, Bean, Petra and Dink seem to be in any sense beyond being ordinary bright kids, if that. None of them besides Ender and his friends seem to have much in the way of tactical insights or emotional intelligence. Ender is made extraordinary in a program that's supposedly built around recruiting extraordinary kids by making almost all the other kids fairly ordinary.

Now the book does do a much, much better job than the movie at giving some legs to Ender's genius (tactical, emotional, etc.) and I suppose you could argue that the whole program was essentially a stupid failure under Ender showed up, which is pretty much what Colonel Graff *does* argue on multiple occasions. But that undercuts a lot of the limited world-building that Card does. In the end, it really is just a very elaborate kind of power fantasy meant to stroke the egos of bullied young geeks. (Certainly that's why I liked it back in the day.)

Speaker For the Dead is another matter--that's where Card really transcended his own limitations and made much of Ender's Game payoff in a distinctive way.

[Trippy]

It's been a long time since I've read the book but I thought there was an element of anti-orthodoxy to using children -- as in they weren't already indoctrinated in traditional strategies and tactics like the adults were.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Yeah, I think it was kids because of the flexibility of their thinking versus stuck in traditional modes of thought like adults.  Similar to how learning a second (or third, etc.) language is much easier when you're under age 10 rather than when thought processed have settled after that age.

[Soulflame]

Also, I think there was some belief that adults would realize at some point that it wasn't a game, whereas Ender didn't know until he was told.  Which probably would have prevented the adult from being able to give the command to destroy the planet.  Of course, this brings up the question of why an adult was able to carry out that command...

[tazelbain]

The movie emphasizes genocide that I don't remember the first book did. I am going go with whole point was try and absolve humanity of guilt of genocide that "needed" to happen. "Look, we didn't want to murder an entire race of sentient beings, but the genius kid did it. Whelp, that's the way the cookie crumbs."

[Soulflame]

Speaker for the Dead quite explicitly did go into xenocide, and humanity felt guilt over wiping out an entire alien species.  Of course, that was Andrew's doing.  Him and his silly book.

But yes.  In the movie, the powers that be of humanity felt it was "us or them".  Humanity didn't know once the alien queens discovered that each human was a separate thinking creature, they resolved to never attack humanity again.

[Ironwood]

Which was just bollocks, really.

[Soulflame]

That may well be.  I mean, the queens should have realized that we're a bunch of nasty hairless apes that won't tolerate a competitive species flying around space.  Particularly one that had made two decent attempts at genociding us.

[Ironwood]

I found the whole idea of 'race figures out motives doesn't bother to figure out communication' essentially ridiculous later on.

Especially when we see that it's so fucking easy to have mind to mind contact as long as you're THE CHOSEN ONE.

 

[Khaldun]

It's actually kind of ambivalent in the book. There is one sense in which Graff and the others are saying, "Look, we don't know what we need to defeat the Formics, because we're too old-school. Only Mazer Rackham was able to get beyond our limits the last time, this time we need a bunch of people who can think completely differently." Ok. That's how Graff justifies just leaving the Battle School kids to make up their own rules and do their own thing, but you know, that freedom is pretty limited--they're still being told what to do and when to do it, under standard military discipline, most of the time. So this doesn't entirely make sense. In one reading, that's where the genocide comes from: they don't know Ender is going to do that, because they don't know anything about what he's doing to do, only that he will do whatever is needed to do to win. The reason Ender uses the Little Doctor from this angle is something that Graff and the others didn't know in advance: that the Formics would gather up around their home planet in such enormous numbers that there is no way for the fleet to win otherwise. Remember, Ender thinks it's a cheat--that this is another example of the teachers trying to make it impossible for him to win. So he does the only thing he could.

But yeah, if you read the scene carefully in the book, Mazer and Graff both seem kind of unsurprised by the use of the Little Doctor to commit genocide, so you have to wonder: were they just setting Ender up to do something that adults would have either refused to do or would have at least wanted to debate? Which also then does raise a question that's never answered precisely in the original book about how the control systems that Ender's group are using actually work--are they orders translated by ansible to military commanders who have choices about whether to obey or not, or are they actually in some sense controlling the fleet semi-directly? Card can't spill the details because we're supposed to believe, like Ender, that this is one more training exercise.