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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: 2.0 Class Change Articles 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: 2.0 Class Change Articles  (Read 2363 times)
Ingmar
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on: April 22, 2013, 11:44:09 AM


The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Zetor
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Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 12:28:56 PM

So alacrity is pretty much WOW haste now (and hit rating soft caps, too, though that's not just a WOW thing)? Not a bad decision, it sucked pretty badly before IMO. Also good to see they finally admitted that shields not working on most of the damage in pvp [and a lot in pve] may just need a bit of an adjustment.

Operative: keeping up water shieldstim boost on my operative was a pain, good to see that change. Kolto Infusion is now Space Regrowth (though I -did- find some uses for it in particularly heavy burst fights even before this). Also yay dodge (though that energy cost seems heavy, I'd much prefer making it free with a short-ish cooldown on it instead)! I can't play games without an active dodge like that (this means playing a mage and monk in WOW), GW2 has spoiled me. Also, Surprise Surgery?  why so serious?

Sage: I'm not sure I 'get' the new Resplendence. You build up stacks, and they automatically get used when you cast Salvation (the aoe heal) OR Sacrifice (force regen skill)? What if I need to use Salvation to top off the group after an AOE, but I don't need it to cast faster... and want to save my charge for NS?

Trooper: Holy crap, finally the same energy system as BHs! Also digging Hold the Line as baseline [dohoho]. New Adrenaline Rush sounds like Second Wind, and definitely a lot more useful than 'that cooldown which doesn't actually do much' before. That throwaway "generate 2 cells and heal 2.5% whenever taking damage from an aoe" ability sounds pretty freaking crazy, in a good way. Ditto with the self-heal from Shoulder Charge for tanks.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:31:00 PM by Zetor »

koro
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Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 12:47:07 PM

Of course, while Alacrity may be a lot more useful now on paper, you have to build an absolute ton of it into your gear to even really notice a difference. Warrior/Knight tank gear comes with one or two pieces with Alacrity on it, for instance. That's not enough of a difference in the global cooldown for the game itself to bother showing.

Even now, nearly everyone I know in the raid scene is gearing out of the Alacrity that comes on their gear thanks to the current raid encounter design, which is heavy on insane DPS checks. Enough Alacrity to make more than a rounding error's difference in activation/GCD times or resource regeneration will lower your overall DPS, and that's borne out through damage parses our DPS have done.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:50:37 PM by koro »
Zetor
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Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 12:50:48 PM

I was more thinking about the 'haste = more energy regen' aspect. Is that noticable, or is it also "fraction of a fraction" level stuff?

e: never mind, answered! I r slow. Maybe they'll bump up the coefficients a bit similarly to the way WOW fudges with the mastery numbers... otherwise it seems silly to play up the importance of a stat that's useless for anyone but healers (who'd probably still like faster cast heals in some burst situations, I assume)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 01:44:27 PM by Zetor »

PalmTrees
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Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 05:28:53 PM

Don't like the changes to my madness sorc. They moved the double zap on shock to another line, didn't have points to get it back. Took out the instant cast on whirlwind, really miss that.

The things they gave us suck.The damage proc is there I suppose, can't ever tell if it's working. With my dot's there's always numbers flying around. Useless alacrity proc, can stack up 4%, whoo! You just can't get enough alacrity to notice a difference. The rating to percentage returns are just too small and you're also taking percentages of tiny numbers so any benefits are too small to see.

Still plays ok, just not as good as before.
Ingmar
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Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 05:42:49 PM

I like several of the changes, especially 15 charges on death field. No instant whirlwind is bad, but that was kind of bullshit anyway honestly.

I assume their current task is figuring out how the fuck to nerf operatives.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
koro
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Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 07:10:55 PM

It's not even so much Operatives in general as it is a single Operative ability (Exfiltrate) and how it works in very specific circumstances (Huttball and Voidstar). They can't add a cooldown to the roll - which is the preferred nerf for a lot of folks - without making it essentially useless in PvE. They can't make it so that Exfiltrating past the fire causes you to take damage from it because their engine is shit and can't work that way.

You can only really fix it in Huttball so that you could either: a.) not be able to Exfiltrate while holding the ball, or b.) the 50% slow effect from carrying the ball applies like a normal player slow and halve the roll distance.

That still leaves Voidstar being basically an instant-win for the attackers if they breach the first door.
Ingmar
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Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 10:17:11 PM

Operative/Smuggler healers are currently broken or near-broken in PVP without Exfiltrate, IMO.

EDIT:

Re: Voidstar I think the way to fix THAT is rule changes to Voidstar. The door cascade problem didn't exist to nearly the same degree in the WoW equivalent battleground; changing the doors to something like a health bar rather than an all or nothing bomb would, I think, make the warzone play much better. There's too little chance to get back on defense when doors go down for dead defenders right now. Another change that might help would be teleporting defenders farther back if they're stuck up in the respawn area when the doors go down.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 10:20:19 PM by Ingmar »

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sjofn
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Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 10:52:18 PM

I think it's the non-healer operatives/scoundrels that are really broken with their new ability, one tree has a talent that makes kolto pack instant-cast and free after a roll (it's space rejuv now, so definitely nice if it's free and instant!), and the other has a talent that reduces the cost and gives it a chance to proc Dodge (which purges all hostile removable effects for everyone now). I mean, the healers are broken too, just for different reasons.

I am going to be really sad if/when they nerf the healers somehow, I really enjoy being immortal.  why so serious?

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Fordel
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Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 11:04:31 PM

Don't like the changes to my madness sorc. They moved the double zap on shock to another line, didn't have points to get it back. Took out the instant cast on whirlwind, really miss that.

The things they gave us suck.The damage proc is there I suppose, can't ever tell if it's working. With my dot's there's always numbers flying around. Useless alacrity proc, can stack up 4%, whoo! You just can't get enough alacrity to notice a difference. The rating to percentage returns are just too small and you're also taking percentages of tiny numbers so any benefits are too small to see.

Still plays ok, just not as good as before.

How are you speccing that you can't get double zap?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ingmar
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Reply #10 on: April 22, 2013, 11:18:38 PM

I seem to recall not having enough points to get it at 50 anymore? I could go look I guess.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
PalmTrees
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Reply #11 on: April 22, 2013, 11:41:21 PM

My spec is 3/7/36. Need the 36 to reach the top of the madness line. Double zap used to be in madness so I got it as I went up that tree. Since they moved it out I'd have to spend some of the 3 or 7 to get it back but I don't want to lose that stuff. So, no more bzzt, bzzt for me  Sad Panda 

Ingmar
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Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 02:02:49 AM

Sounds like you are buying Reserves, you should really be able to skip that as Madness with the force lightning mana return, no?

I guess the double zap is probably not a massive DPS increase anyway.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Fordel
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Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 05:08:47 AM

Double Zap isn't a boss rotational thing, just a farm trash and pvp burst thing.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Jherad
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Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 06:58:46 AM

My one problem with exfiltrate (over and above the obvious problems in voidstar - we lost a match with nearly 5 mins still left on the clock the other night) is that as a ranged DPS class (commando) I have no way to kite a skilled DPS operative now, if electronet is on cooldown (1m 30secs, lasts 9 secs). It doesn't matter at what range I engage them, they can cleanse every snare/root I have and can instantly close any gap I open without cooldown. I know the energy cost is supposed to be extreme, but it doesn't appear extreme enough to prevent them from using it multiple times in a fight without impacting their burst.

The commando/merc changes are nice. I'm hoping they are nice enough that the class is finally considered an optimal pick for RWZs. I think the cooldown on electronet could probably be lowered a bit - especially as most people have now figured out that the main component can be removed with the CC breaker, and assassins can negate the entire dot with their tech shield.
Velorath
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Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 03:04:30 AM

I tend to take breaks from this game for many months, and the hardest part of getting back into it is always when I log in and get the message about my characters' skill points being refunded.  It's already hard enough after a long break to remember what every button on my Sith Juggernaut's 5 or 6 hotbars do (to the point where I haven't played that character since the first time I took a break from the game) but now I've got to research builds on 4 characters before I can get back into things. They really need to cut down on the buttons in this game.
Ingmar
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Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 10:33:04 AM

They got rid of those buttons that only work on silver-or-below NPCs, at least?

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Jherad
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Reply #17 on: April 25, 2013, 01:11:14 PM

Yep, those were removed as the new class changes came in. Still a *lot* of buttons to push, particularly as a PvPer.
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