Damn pick-up groups. Damn them to Hades.

[Trippy]

[Paladins have 1 tool, Seal of Fury, and it doesn't work well at all. Even after stunning a mob that is pissed at someone else, it goes back to beating on them after the stun wears off rather than turning on the paladin.

Seal of Fury is a Pally's main aggro tool, though it's much more effective used in combination with other spells. From your description talking about stuns you might be confused with Seal of Justice or perhaps Hammer of Justice. Seal of Fury causes melee damage from the Pally to cause additional aggro. However if you judge it (which BTW acts as an aggro increaser itself) then subsequent Holy damage spells cause additional aggro and a Pally has a number of ways of doing Holy damage (Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Command, Holy Shield, Holy Shock, Consecration, Aura of Retribution, Exorcism, Holy Wrath).

[Ironwood]

Conversations like these are a part of why I don't bother grouping. It gets old so fast, I really don't care about the intricacies of aggro management..I just want to play a game and have fun.

But I guess after you've been playing the same game for so long, you have to have something to talk about.

Speaking of which, I started a hunter (orc) on Saturday morning.  He's now lvl 14 with a tiger called Hobbes.  I have spent so much time catassing this weekend it's not real - and the important point here is that I didn't notice the time go by and I had a HUGE amount of fun playing the hunter.

What a great class.

[Phred]

[Paladins have 1 tool, Seal of Fury, and it doesn't work well at all. Even after stunning a mob that is pissed at someone else, it goes back to beating on them after the stun wears off rather than turning on the paladin.

Seal of Fury is a Pally's main aggro tool, though it's much more effective used in combination with other spells. From your description talking about stuns you might be confused with Seal of Justice or perhaps Hammer of Justice. Seal of Fury causes melee damage from the Pally to cause additional aggro. However if you judge it (which BTW acts as an aggro increaser itself) then subsequent Holy damage spells cause additional aggro and a Pally has a number of ways of doing Holy damage (Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Command, Holy Shield, Holy Shock, Consecration, Aura of Retribution, Exorcism, Holy Wrath).

Nope, I'm not confused. I meant that unlike EQ, stuns appear to carry very little agro. I've tried judging seal of fury then using seal of righteousness, and seal of command. None of these will pull agro off a priest who did a big heal or a mage who got a crit nuke in my experience. Seal of Command doesn't appear to count as holy damage for the purposes of agro with judged seal of fury or the agro it adds is very low. Either way even after hitting for 350 with Command I've never seen a mob come off the mage occasionally I duo with if he's overagroed early in the fight with a crit nuke.

Somehow I doubt the damage from consecration is going to generate significant agro unless the mob is currently unagroed. Exorcism of course only works on undead, and Holy Wrath; sorry, I can't see buying all the useless baggage in the holy tree to get that.

[stray]

I can't see buying all the useless baggage in the holy tree to get that.

Holy skills aren't any more useless than skills in Retribution. It's just that you're thinking of the Paladin class in only one way.

If you're so concerned about the Paladins ability to pull mobs off of people, then Holy Shock generates more aggro than any other skill in all 3 trees. You're never going to be a Warrior, no matter which way you build, but that method is more reliable than any other available to you.

[Phred]

I can't see buying all the useless baggage in the holy tree to get that.

Holy skills aren't any more useless than skills in Retribution. It's just that you're thinking of the Paladin class in only one way.

If you're so concerned about the Paladins ability to pull mobs off of people, then Holy Shock generates more aggro than any other skill in all 3 trees. You're never going to be a Warrior, no matter which way you build, but that method is more reliable than any other available to you.

I'm farily happy with my build actually. This all started with my response to the poster who said why bring a warrior for an instance tank when you can use a paladin and I pointed out where paladins fell down on the job compared to warriors.