NFL 2013

[HaemishM]

Cowboys can still win out and win. The East is a fucking joke.

This. The East has been a dumpster fire rolling on 3 wheels this entire season. The Eagles got ahead of themselves with all the Chip Kelly praise and got ROUTED by a Vikings team led by Matt fucking Cassel and without both Adrian Peterson and their 2nd string running back. I just... I don't even... how does that happen?

The NFC North is still so up in the air but at least you can blame it on QB injuries. If Rodgers is healthy, Green Bay walks to that division title. Detroit can't stop stepping on their own dicks and I expect them to lose tonight simply because they should win. Chicago can't stop anybody but their offense runs like clockwork no matter who you put under center.

[Hoax]

If you watched the Bengals game you would know that the punter before he got his neck broken by some typical Steelers shit basically doomed that game with back to back to back awful outings, in fact I'd dare say I've never seen a pro punter fuck up 3 times in a row that badly, its like he completely got mindfucked by the initial dropped snap. That combined with the surreal fair catch thing on the kick off between two of those punts was just too much special teams fuck ups for one Sunday. It was just too much to recover from.

Though in general I agree with the sentiment that they are still playing down to opposition there is some solace to be garnered in the fact that on a day that the o-line wr's and run game were all fucking up Dalton never went into sabotage the entire day mode and had a solid game with the rest of the team falling apart.

[K9]

I'm not sure the Ravens can kick their way to a second superbowl win, but I'm willing to watch them try.

[Malakili]

It'll work if they can play the Lions every game.

[Bungee]

Same LOL goes to the Bengals. Looking at the box score, I can't understand what went on in this game. By the stats, the Steelers should have lost.

What?

Other than the rushing stats, Dalton's numbers were better than the Rapist, they had equal number of turnovers, etc.

Pass Comp-Att-Int

25 - 44 - 0

||

20 - 25 - 1

Average Gain per Passing Play

4.9

||

7.1

It might just be my fan glasses, but given the Bengals had to dig themselves out of a 21 point hole makes it even more impressive that Dalton's and Ben's raw numbers are about even what with Cinci trying to air it out 44 times.
Yes, Dalton didn't lose them the game but he certainly wasn't able to carry them either.

[Paelos]

And just like that, the Packers are back in it.

[Bunk]

And just like that, the Packers Bears are back in it.

[Paelos]

Packers just need to win out, same as Cowboys.

[Merusk]

If you watched the Bengals game you would know that the punter before he got his neck broken by some typical Steelers shit

Here's the shit show, aboutthis.  The Punter just reminds us of the injury Palmer took at the same time in the season from the Steelers several years ago, and little to nothing will be done about it.  Nothing more than dollars changing hands in what is becoming a tradition from a shitty bunch of thugs.  Fuck those fuckers and their fans.

[K9]

Arizona are certainly a better-looking team this year.

[Bunk]

Packers just need to win out, same as Cowboys.

Fortunately for the Bears, the Packers don't get to play the Cowboys any more this season...

There's still a good chance that the two teams will be playing to get in on the final week. Appropriate.

[Bungee]

If you watched the Bengals game you would know that the punter before he got his neck broken by some typical Steelers shit

Here's the shit show, aboutthis.  The Punter just reminds us of the injury Palmer took at the same time in the season from the Steelers several years ago, and little to nothing will be done about it.  Nothing more than dollars changing hands in what is becoming a tradition from a shitty bunch of thugs.  Fuck those fuckers and their fans.

There's a dozen illegal hits and other shit any given week and you throw a tantrum because of this? The dude is going to get fined and it's probably going to be higher than his actual check for the game given that he's basically the last LB on the depth chart.

[Paelos]

He hit the dude in the chest. I have a hard time calling that a blindside block.

[HaemishM]

He hit the dude in the chest. I have a hard time calling that a blindside block.

Other than leading with the crown of his helmet, I don't see what's wrong with that block from the Steeler player's perspective. The punter needs to have his head on a swivel in that situation. Instead he's not looking at the guy who just buried him, he's looking at the ball. And I'm not entirely sure leading with the helmet is a penalty in that situation.

[01101010]

He hit the dude in the chest. I have a hard time calling that a blindside block.

Other than leading with the crown of his helmet, I don't see what's wrong with that block from the Steeler player's perspective. The punter needs to have his head on a swivel in that situation. Instead he's not looking at the guy who just buried him, he's looking at the ball. And I'm not entirely sure leading with the helmet is a penalty in that situation.

Pecking around the web, most people quoting the rules state it was a legal block. Leading with the helmet and leaving his feet is probably going to end up in a fine though given the attention the league has for these things now. I mean come on, you are 100lbs heavier than the guy, all you really had to do was stand there and watch him bounce off you. But in the ESPN world, that would not have gotten any coverage for the wow factor. Being a Browns fan, I hate both these teams, but that hit was just flat out unnecessary.

[sickrubik]

He didn't lead with his helmet from what I can see, plants that shoulder straight into his shoulder.

[Trippy]

He didn't lead with the crown. However his helmet did hit his jaw and fractured it.

[Mithas]

I just think it was a dick move. He sought out the punter because he knows he can get a big hit on him. Targeting a player like that on purpose is ridiculous. He could have blocked him just as effectively without trying to hit the highlight reel.

[Paelos]

It's football. For heaven's sake. I mean honestly, I hate the whole macho "put a dress on him" arguments as much as anyone else, but this season has been fucking atrocious to watch, and a lot of this shit is to blame. Nobody knows what they can and can't do on a tackle or a block anymore. Everything is a business decision. There are more fines than ever.

I don't want this to turn into arena football or a season of 4 haves, 4 mehs, and 24 have-nots.

[sickrubik]

I just think it was a dick move. He sought out the punter because he knows he can get a big hit on him. Targeting a player like that on purpose is ridiculous. He could have blocked him just as effectively without trying to hit the highlight reel.

What. Sought him out? It was a block. Show me an overhead angle on that play that shows him avoiding other players to go after him. As for severity, they are both moving in opposite directions at speed.

[Ghambit]

That's a legal block using technique they teach you in pop warner (the blocker even broke-down beforehand).  The failure in technique was from the punter; who should've had his head on a swivel or at least assumed there y'know, just might be a blocker out there.  You come onto the field with the world's best athletes, guys that run 30+mph and weigh over 225lbs, and think you can be like that punter?  You're gonna get your bell rung every time.  As far as I'm concerned he deserved to get knocked the fuck out.  Stick to punting, not tackling.  

Seriously, I cant believe we're having this conversation... especially after watching very relevant playoff-calibre teams get hosed (or not hosed) on calls like these.

A High School story:  idiot mis-coached kickoff returner thought it'd be wise to go head up through a wedge.  Mind you, we had probably a top-5 defense in the entire state (better than St. Thomas Aquinas even).  This scrawny kid w/o a care or any awareness just runs head-up right into our starting MLB.  Kid gets wiped off the face of the earth by a perfect form tackle.  No penalty.  Kid goes away on a stretcher with a ruptured spleen.

[01101010]

Legal or not, right or wrong... the league set the precedent this year with these types of hits - on both sides of the ball. 

[Bungee]

It's an illegal block. Why? Because Kickers and Punters are considered defenseless during the whole time of a special teams play where they kicked or punted. Thus, you can't "forcibly" hit them in the head or neck area, even if the contact started below the neck and head area.

Yes, you read right. Considered defenseless during the whole play. Because they kicked the ball.

Edit: And yes, it should have been a penalty negating the TD and moving the Steelers 15y back from the spot of the foul.

[sickrubik]

Source?

[Ingmar]

How is that not leading with the helmet? The first contact is helmet to face.

[01101010]

Source?

http://www.footballzebras.com/2013/12/15/9594/

Punters and kickers have special protections, and are considered one of the 10 players that are defined in the rules as being in a defenseless posture (this applies from the kick through any return).

[Bunk]

You really seeing it that way? It would help to be able to frame by frame it, but when I focus on just the punter in that clip, here's what I see: His head jerks to the left side of the screen at the point of contact, because the contact point is his chest. Then a frame or two later, whiplash makes his head jerk back. If the initial contact point was the helmet, you would not see his head snap forward first.

It's still pretty easy for your face to impact with the other guy's helmet even without the helmet being the initial contact point, just because of the whiplash effect.

It was an unnecessarily rough hit, but not illegal I don't think. If this is the rule they are talking about: "It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture (including) a kicker/punter during the kick or during the return." - I would interpret that to mean you can't hit the punter if he's just standing there after he kicked it (to prevent players from hunting down the other teams kicker). In this play, the punter was clearly pursuing the play, ready to try to make a tackle.

[HaemishM]

I'm the last guy to come up with the "put on a dress, Sally" arguments, but I have to agree with Paelos. The NFL is putting a shit product on the field, and it's got a lot to do with all the idiotic exceptions and rules to who can be hit, when they can be hit and how they can be hit. The fact that there's even an argument about whether or not a particular position player can be hit on a play is just insane. So if it's a fake punt, can the punter still be hit? And if the punter tries to block someone, does the guy that they try to block get a penalty for touching the punter?

Defensive play has been godawful this year and it needs to be fixed. Whether that's with letting more people get hit or letting people hit more in practice or what, I don't know. I only know that watching some of these games gets painful.

[01101010]

I'm the last guy to come up with the "put on a dress, Sally" arguments, but I have to agree with Paelos. The NFL is putting a shit product on the field, and it's got a lot to do with all the idiotic exceptions and rules to who can be hit, when they can be hit and how they can be hit. The fact that there's even an argument about whether or not a particular position player can be hit on a play is just insane. So if it's a fake punt, can the punter still be hit? And if the punter tries to block someone, does the guy that they try to block get a penalty for touching the punter?

Defensive play has been godawful this year and it needs to be fixed. Whether that's with letting more people get hit or letting people hit more in practice or what, I don't know. I only know that watching some of these games gets painful.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/12/nfl-rulebook-hit-terence-garvin-kevin-huber-steelers-bengals/

Has a pretty nice shot of the point of contact. I am sure there will be sides debunking it and sides holding it up as proof. This should be pretty cut and dry given what has happened throughout the season (see: Gumby Drew Brees).

And the punter/kicker rule is only on kicks and only applies to headshots. You are still able to block the punter. This has nothing to do with hitting anyone, it has to do with where the hit occurs or where it ends up.

[sickrubik]

That page 01101010 linked is pretty good. The screen shot definitely looks perhaps worse, but the angle I don't think gives a definitive proof of anything. To me, I'm still seeing contact with the shoulder first.

Okay that second link looks worse, but yeah, there's probably still some room for debate.

But, definitely fine worthy, given the rule, I would think.

[Ingmar]

In case anyone is too lazy to follow the link:

[Trippy]

I'm the last guy to come up with the "put on a dress, Sally" arguments, but I have to agree with Paelos. The NFL is putting a shit product on the field, and it's got a lot to do with all the idiotic exceptions and rules to who can be hit, when they can be hit and how they can be hit. The fact that there's even an argument about whether or not a particular position player can be hit on a play is just insane. So if it's a fake punt, can the punter still be hit? And if the punter tries to block someone, does the guy that they try to block get a penalty for touching the punter?

Defensive play has been godawful this year and it needs to be fixed. Whether that's with letting more people get hit or letting people hit more in practice or what, I don't know. I only know that watching some of these games gets painful.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/12/nfl-rulebook-hit-terence-garvin-kevin-huber-steelers-bengals/

Has a pretty nice shot of the point of contact. I am sure there will be sides debunking it and sides holding it up as proof. This should be pretty cut and dry given what has happened throughout the season (see: Gumby Drew Brees).

And the punter/kicker rule is only on kicks and only applies to headshots. You are still able to block the punter. This has nothing to do with hitting anyone, it has to do with where the hit occurs or where it ends up.

The punter is still considered a defenseless player during the return. And it doesn't matter where the initial point of contact is. Article 7(b)(1) explicitly has a clause that says: "even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck". As in it doesn't matter if the initial contact with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder was below the the defenseless player's neck. If the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder moves up (or the head/neck moves down) to contact the head or neck that's still a penalty.

Edit: neck

[sickrubik]

I think that's what he was saying, but I'm now a bit confused at the flow a bit.

[HaemishM]

That's an insane rule. There is literally no way for the human body to contort itself such that it can guarantee it won't contact the head on every single contact possibility. It might as well just say "The punter cannot take any part in the play other than kicking the ball because they are porcelain dolls and we will break them."

[Phildo]

I don't remember where I read it, but there was a pretty good article not that long ago about how there's a rise in lower-body injuries due to players being afraid of accidentally sliding up into someone's head during a tackle and consequently aiming lower.