Looking forward to Battlegrounds. But...

[Train Wreck]

Part 1
Part 2

There are a lot of things about the system that I like.

1)  If a player's corpse is looted by an enemy, they will not be able to res at it.  Instead, everybody that's present at a graveyard will res at once, during set time intervals.  This represents reinforcements arriving en masse.

2)  Graveyards will be contested spawning points that will effectively function as staging areas.  Besides players, they will also be guarded by elite faction NPCs.

3)  Several quests are available in the zone that will contribute to the overall battle.  Repairs are speeded up, and faction guards are powered-up, by delivering supplies from the mines (also contested and guarded by elite faction NPCs), or overrun by neutral scum such as gnolls.    Engineers can be rescued to build powerful NPCs that run rampant amungst the enemy.  The ultimate quests result in summoning uber monsters of raid-boss power (such as the Ancient of War).

4)  If you manage to destroy the enemy base, it will erupt into flames.  With no proper staging area, the losing faction will be limited to conducting guerilla tactics until their base is rebuilt.  Everybody that participated with the winning faction recieves honor points.


I only have a couple dissapointments from what I've read.
1)  It is clearly designed for players around lvl 55+.  I doubt I'll be able to participate for awhile, though it gives the players looking for more end-game content something to do.  (Battlegrounds for lower levels are in the works, but no other details have been given.)

2)  There is a limit on how many players can be in the battlefield at once.  In a population of about 6,000, only about 100-200 will be able to participate.  So much for being able to hop in for an hour and mixing it up -- you might be waiting in line for far longer than you have time for.  It seems strange to make a significant addition available to only about 2% of the people online.

[MrHat]

Part 1
Part 2

There are a lot of things about the system that I like.

1)  If a player's corpse is looted by an enemy, they will not be able to res at it.  Instead, everybody that's present at a graveyard will res at once, during set time intervals.  This represents reinforcements arriving en masse.

2)  Graveyards will be contested spawning points that will effectively function as staging areas.  Besides players, they will also be guarded by elite faction NPCs.

3)  Several quests are available in the zone that will contribute to the overall battle.  Repairs are speeded up, and faction guards are powered-up, by delivering supplies from the mines (also contested and guarded by elite faction NPCs), or overrun by neutral scum such as gnolls.    Engineers can be rescued to build powerful NPCs that run rampant amungst the enemy.  The ultimate quests result in summoning uber monsters of raid-boss power (such as the Ancient of War).

4)  If you manage to destroy the enemy base, it will erupt into flames.  With no proper staging area, the losing faction will be limited to conducting guerilla tactics until their base is rebuilt.  Everybody that participated with the winning faction recieves honor points.


I only have a couple dissapointments from what I've read.
1)  It is clearly designed for players around lvl 55+.  I doubt I'll be able to participate for awhile, though it gives the players looking for more end-game content something to do.  (Battlegrounds for lower levels are in the works, but no other details have been given.)

2)  There is a limit on how many players can be in the battlefield at once.  In a population of about 6,000, only about 100-200 will be able to participate.  So much for being able to hop in for an hour and mixing it up -- you might be waiting in line for far longer than you have time for.  It seems strange to make a significant addition available to only about 2% of the people online.

Hrm, I always assumed there would be more than 1 BG going at once.  Instanced zones and the such.  You enter, and are thrust into one that is 20 v 20, then more people enter and it's 30 v 20, but they can't get more than that.  But who am I to speculate.

[Train Wreck]

I could have missed it, but I didn't see anything that implied it was instanced, though you do have to go through a red portal.  My impression was that the portal was to alert you that it's a battleground though, not an instance.

They will have several battlegrounds going eventually.  Alterac happens to be the first, and it is designed for lvls 55+.  I'm surprised they are releasing it in this way, as it is sure to cause a mad scuffle just to participate.  They allowed their servers to become overloaded, and it looks like they want the BG to initially be the same way.

[Paelos]

I can see why they wouldn't want it an instance based on the fact of keeping up with one overall BG. It would make it mean more that way. I also think they will limit it to about 200 a side, scaled up. Depending on the lesser populated side, it would only let in +10 players on the other. My opinion is the Alliance gets screwed there, which may lead to more of a balance in order to play in the BGs if they are fun enough.

[Jobu]

I only have a couple dissapointments from what I've read.
1)  It is clearly designed for players around lvl 55+.  I doubt I'll be able to participate for awhile, though it gives the players looking for more end-game content something to do.  (Battlegrounds for lower levels are in the works, but no other details have been given.)

I am going to LOVE logging in with a lower range character so the highbies can bitch and moan at me. Like when Counter-Strike servers all jump on the guy with 300 ping.

[Ironwood]

I for one will be owning NO-ONE with my Dial-up.

In other news, I fetch water from the well and wash my clothes by the stream.  *Sigh*


Edited to add - I am, however, impressed by my 55 latency from work.  It's like having the server next to you.

[Threash]

Funny it never crossed my mind that battlegrounds would NOT be instanced.  Everything ive read so far points to that.

[HaemishM]

They are instanced in the sense that they are sort of separate from the game world (requiring you to go through a portal) and can only exist for one set of players (i.e. whoever is the first 100-200 players into it on that server).

[MrHat]

They are instanced in the sense that they are sort of separate from the game world (requiring you to go through a portal) and can only exist for one set of players (i.e. whoever is the first 100-200 players into it on that server).

I still think that there will be multiple instances of it if more than 100-200 people want to play..

[Paelos]

They are instanced in the sense that they are sort of separate from the game world (requiring you to go through a portal) and can only exist for one set of players (i.e. whoever is the first 100-200 players into it on that server).

I still think that there will be multiple instances of it if more than 100-200 people want to play..

I'm wondering how they would accomodate people that want to play together? Raid groups?

[MrHat]

I queue system that you enter with your group/raid group.

When the new instnace has 50 people to split between both sides then it gives you a message saying: "Alterac needs your help!  Are you ready for your portal to the Battlegrounds?"

Of course, I could just be hoping for something that is simple and easy to use, and lets us do other things while waiting.

[sinij]

I queue system that you enter with your group/raid group.

WoW where you queue to log in, queue to play battlegrounds... its looks more and more as a ProgressQuest to me.

Graveyards will be contested spawning points that will effectively function as staging areas.  Besides players, they will also be guarded by elite faction NPCs.

I don't see how anyone ever would recover past initial wipe. You only need few mages and warlocks camping enemy GY to never let anyone res.

[HaemishM]

And then the whining can begin in earnest!

[MrHat]

I queue system that you enter with your group/raid group.

WoW where you queue to log in, queue to play battlegrounds... its looks more and more as a ProgressQuest to me.

Read the rest.

[Paelos]

And then the whining can begin in earnest!

That was back during launch when "OMG LAG IS SO BAD I CANT READ MY MAIL!!!1"
or "OMG SERVERZ BLOWS IM NOT INGAME WHR R U GMS?"

There is an unlimited amount of whining looking simply for direction.

[jpark]

I am pretty impressed by the description of Battlegrounds.  It will be interesting to see if Blizzard can continue its design/refinement momentum and deliver pvp that most will enjoy.

Linking to the the major strategic themes of WCIII appears to add a lot to the whole setting.

[Sky]

WoW where you queue to log in, queue to play battlegrounds... its looks more and more as a ProgressQuest to me.

I've never seen a queue and I've been playing since the end of November.

WoW = Progressquest? Damn, you're reaching now.

I don't see how anyone ever would recover past initial wipe

Round over, next round?

Where's the problem, most people are bitching about the fact that wow pvp can become an endless zergfest, and you bitch the opposite. This is why devs should not listen to message board feedback, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Train Wreck]

I don't see how anyone ever would recover past initial wipe. You only need few mages and warlocks camping enemy GY to never let anyone res.

You can't camp an enemy graveyard because once you defeat the guards, it becomes *YOUR* graveyard, and the enemies spawn somewhere else.  Also, the ressurections are on a timer, so everybody that died pops back at the exact same time.  Even if somebody did try to camp an opposing faction's graveyard, they could have their hands full immediately.  In fact, the better their side was at killing the opposing faction, the more overwhelmed they will be if they're at the other faction's graveyard when the res trigger goes off.

The way you recover from a wipe is that your entire base, complete with guard towers, gets repawned at once.  If you've ever been by yourself in the middle of an empty dungeon, only to have every mob respawn at once, you would know how effective this is.

[Paelos]

Timer ressurections are a brilliant move. I thought I'd add that. Even better would be an amount of deaths each player could have in the BGs before hitting the bottom of the queue to get in.

[Dren]

If they actually get everything implemented as they describe, the BG's will be wildly popular.  The problems brought up above are from lack of reading as far as I'm concerned.  The concepts are brilliant.

The queue to wait for 50 people will be 1-2 minutes.  That's what it takes currently to log in during primetime for me.  The number of people logging in and out every second is stagering to me.  My prediction is that BG's will be very popular and the queues will be satisfied very quickly.  Now, that is assuming there will be more than just one instance of BG.  If there is only one and only 50 people can do BG's at any given time, it will suck.

[jpark]

My prediction is that BG's will be very popular and the queues will be satisfied very quickly. 

Especially if you are Horde.  Since the alliance seem to be a much more popular choice.

[MrHat]

I hope that battlegrounds helps us avoid the 35yard dance:

[Kageru]

The 35 yard dance, that's a good way of putting it. And I doubt it. Given that ranged should dominate melee (especially since magic ignores armor) and you can't cast most spells on the run I'd expect skirmish lines like that to be the norm. In addition certain spells like blizzard and frost nova should be massively effective at breaking any attempt at an organised charge. The fire from massed hunters, especially the multi-shot skill they have, should be potent and very easy to focus.

[Strazos]

That's what flanking rogues are for....but in this case, you have to flank really wide...so people can't see...then slowly sneak up...

Also, warriors with Intercept should be able to help this a bit, especially if they pop rage potions right as they hit the enemy lines, then bust out debuffs, whirlwind, etc.

I can definately see warriors having a nice role in these BG's.

[Kageru]

Stealth is awesome. But there's going to be a lot of really bored tank classes (warrior, pallies) who would just adore an exposed melee target without healing or ranged support. So as soon as you attack someone expect to be the focus of attention. The main thing rogues will do is encourage `clusters' of people, much like a raft circled by sharks.

I watched a warrior do the bloodrage -> intercept into melee with the opposing clump. He was instantly stunned, almost certainly by the paladin instant cast one, and was dead before it broke. Admittedly he was a tauren and they tend to attract an awful lot of attention on the battlefield. The serious PvP warriors are probably either undead or gnome. But the real essence of it is that charge removes you from your support (including healing) and puts you in the center of the enemy who have support. And given the number of ways (placed for PvE levelling mostly) of incapacitating a foe that's a suicide move unless your group is superbly organised... which most won't be. It's just much better to stay within your support and let your damage do the travelling.

But we'll see when, if, they actually come out. The PvP dynamics should be interesting to observe. Although I'll chant my mantra again, trying to balance PvP and PvE with the same ruleset is just asking for trouble.

[Phred]

I forsee a major problem with lack of collision detection, same as DAoC. It's hard to set up a front line to protect casters when someone can waltz right through your front line. It's funny that EQ is the only game where they've managed to get player collision detection right.

[Paelos]

Didn't FFXI do collision detect?

[trias_e]

Protecting casters was usually about snares/kiting in DAOC and it'll be the same in WoW.  I don't really think thats a problem, except it does devalue warriors a bit.  I don't think that player collision would make it really possible to stop people from getting to casters either:  You'd have to have really huge collision detection.  Not to mention thanks to Charge it would be useless anyways (at least considering warriors).

Speaking of snares though, they nerfed my 320 mana 8 second AE instant snare =(  (Imp Bliz).  But, it definitely is better in PvE now, so I can't complain too much.

[Chenghiz]

I'm just waiting to see that huge firing line of hunters opening up, like in that promo video.. Wow, what a sight it will be. I'm really pumped for battlegrounds, but I probably won't make it in time (only 36 right now).

[MrHat]

I'm just waiting to see that huge firing line of hunters opening up, like in that promo video.. Wow, what a sight it will be. I'm really pumped for battlegrounds, but I probably won't make it in time (only 36 right now).

Well, I was killing a paladin (was on last life) when all of sudden my health started dropping because 3 hunters decided to gangbang me.  Was frightening to turn around and see that.