Marvel Universe (Thar be spoilers ahead.)

[Khaldun]

Yup. It'll be interesting to see if the comics feel obligated to re-do Hawkeye as the MCU version, because that's what they've been doing with other characters (not always a great strategy, imho).

[jgsugden]

There is every chance they kill off Hunter and Hawkeye's family in the next few years to set those two up.

I really think this is Marvel looking at what the CW did with Flash and saying they need a show that is less spy, more superpowers. Of the various Marvel shows MAoS is the least like the comics. New characters, fewer powers, etc... 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Aside from rare cameos of second/third tier characters there has not been any movie to tv crossover. You really think they are gonna somehow get Jeremy Renner full time on network tv? We are about to be three seasons into shield, soon two seasons into DD and Carter with zero cohesiveness between the tv shows and movies.  It's incredibly sad but I think at some point people are going to have to accept there is a tv universe and a movie one because beyond lip service never the twain shall meet.

[Khaldun]

I think to some extent they see the films as "the big time"--as spectacle--and don't want to water down the spectacle with the ongoing serial elements that the TV work invariably has. But at the same time both WB and Marvel/Disney are now treating the comics as a kind of vast "bank" of future intellectual property value and I suspect that the TV shows will be the place where they do the most work to take value out of that bank. The films require risk-adversity, so you're not going to mess around with a villain that might be hard to adapt or that could be easily ruined with a lame 'take'. That's what the second set of Spider-Man films showed, actually--that it's hard to take characters like Electro and the Rhino and the Lizard and make them able to hold up cinematic-level spectacle. But TV means that first you can bury a villain who comes off as lame and second that you can probably get more exciting performances from a wider range of actors to really make your bad guys interesting. If you get a Tennant or a MacLachlan, suddenly a potentially ho-hum character like Killgrave or Mr. Hyde becomes memorable enough to pull viewers and interest in--but you're not risking a gazillion-dollar tentpole franchise film on a quirky performance.

Heroes I assume they're going to be more careful about just tossing into Agents of Shield or anything else, because they're potentially something to build a later franchise around. Though that's been the glory of the DC TV shows--they're just tossing almost anything in to The Flash besides the "big three".

[jgsugden]

Aside from rare cameos of second/third tier characters there has not been any movie to tv crossover. You really think they are gonna somehow get Jeremy Renner full time on network tv? We are about to be three seasons into shield, soon two seasons into DD and Carter with zero cohesiveness between the tv shows and movies.  It's incredibly sad but I think at some point people are going to have to accept there is a tv universe and a movie one because beyond lip service never the twain shall meet.

More likely to see Mockingbird go to the Movies than Hawkeye to do a substantial TV turn, although Renner and Padalecki doing a turn on Netflix is not impossible (12 hours versus 22, more adult), either.

The TV will continue to respond to the movies, but Feige *recently* said it is going to be harder and harder to have movies that do not recognize what has taken place on TV.  For example, MAoS has a can of worms in the projected number of Inhumans being released upon the world within a year.  I don't think they ignore that in Civil War - but do not reference it directly, either.  Instead, they'll talk about the greater number of metahumans out there.  I think the movies will grow to a point where seeing the TV enhances the movie experience, but is not requrired - while TV will grow to include more and more crossover with the peripheral - and perhaps even central - movie characters.  If Paltrow was on Glee, why not MAoS?  Downey Jr. said he'd appear on MAoS in the right story - but not just a cameo for the sake of cameo (and likely not cheaply - but would he do a few days work for a million?). 

There has been less transition between TV and movie than I'd hoped.  However, with Daredevil and Jessica Jones setting high standards, characters being introduced on TV that have strong comic ties to movie characters (Mockingbird to Hawkeye, Kingpin to Spiderman, etc...) I think the long term liklihood of character crossover is getting bigger, even as the business rift between tv and movies has widened.

[HaemishM]

Holy shit, I had never ever heard of Lance Hunter from the comics. I thought he was completely made up for the show.

[Margalis]

It seems pretty clear to me that there is a pecking order with the movies first, Netflix second, and network TV a distant third. Even when Shield did the Inhumans stuff they didn't even use the well-known Inhumans, as far as I can tell.

Basically ABC gets the table scraps. I don't think too much thought is going into it beyond "super heroes are big and these shows will at least make some money so why not? (Shrug)" And they use F-list characters because presumably everything else is reserved for the movies (both Marvel's and Fox/Sony), Netflix, etc.

I still think it would be a better idea to have the network TV be something like a Damage Control comedy. Or maybe an X-Files type thing. Basically a show that has normal humans in it, set in a superhero world. A big problem with Shield is that it's kind of a superhero show, but not really - the heroes are lame, the FX are lame. Instead of being a show about superheroes or a show about normal humans existing in a superhero world it's a show about super-lame superheroes.

Holy shit, I had never ever heard of Lance Hunter from the comics

Same, though I did look him up later. He makes Paste Pot Pete look like Superman. He's not even scraping the bottom of the barrel, he's the sludge sitting underneath the barrel.

[eldaec]

I have no issues whatsoever with the idea that in MCU-earth there are people who don't regularly meet other specific people.

Really don't feel the need to have Captain America dropping in on every third episode of Jessica Jones.


Also, the netflix stuff is obviously being firewalled off like the old 'MAX' comics so they don't have to deal with complaints about kids desperate to see that new show that has Thor in it despite also having rape and drugs.

I really don't see that Agents is getting table scraps, it has Coulsen and regular cameos from Nick Fury for a start - and gets to do the movie tie in episodes.

And I don't get how you can complain that Agents isn't about normal humans in a super hero world, then in the next paragraph dismiss Lance Hunter, who plays... a normal human trying to exist in a super hero world. Shield needs more Lance Hunters, and fewer half assed superheroes.

[HaemishM]

I'd actually prefer more full-assed heroes, but I'll take the half-assed heroes/villains as well. I actually really like Agents of SHIELD for what it is. I mean, it's not as good as Flash or Arrow, but I'd put it a little above Supergirl.

[eldaec]

There is every chance they kill off Hunter and Hawkeye's family in the next few years to set those two up.

I really think this is Marvel looking at what the CW did with Flash and saying they need a show that is less spy, more superpowers. Of the various Marvel shows MAoS is the least like the comics. New characters, fewer powers, etc...  

They already put MCU Hunter in Mockingbird's comics. More likely there is no more Mockingbird and Hawkeye in the comics than they put MCU Hawkeye and Mockingbird on screen together.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'd actually prefer more full-assed heroes, but I'll take the half-assed heroes/villains as well. I actually really like Agents of SHIELD for what it is. I mean, it's not as good as Flash or Arrow, but I'd put it a little above Supergirl.

Watching flash and to a lesser extent arrow, just shows how much wasted potential agents of shield really is.

[HaemishM]

Hawkeye and Mockingbird haven't been together in the comics for years. She was dead for awhile until it was revealed that was a Skrull and the real Mockingbird is alive and well. I wish I was kidding. They still got divorced though.

[Khaldun]

Yes and for It's Comics Everybody stupid reasons. (Basically, she got stuck in the past, was mind-controlled and raped by a costumed Wild West character called Phantom Rider, shook off his mind control and knocked the guy off a cliff to his death on purpose, and then when she got back to the present, Hawkeye was mad at her for killing Mr. Rapey and they got divorced.) Of course they also got married for kind of stupid reasons too, so I think if you were doing a slightly more grown-up and smart rewrite of their history you'd just say that they're both volatile people--that she's a secret agent prone to keeping secrets and he's a self-defeating and stubborn horndog.

[jgsugden]

Only time will tell... but with the recent discussions of so many characters being in Infinity, I would not be surprised to see cameos by Mockingbird, Powerman, etc... in it. Cap III is going to show us how minimal they're wiling to be with major characters.

[Khaldun]

My guess is that if Infinity War follows even some of the original Infinity Gauntlet storybeats, at some point half of creation is going to croak it. So it's very possible to have "67 characters" involved, but most of them will probably appear long enough just to disappear--expect a big scene where Coulson, Morse, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Sif, etc. all "die".

My guess would be that post-Civil War and post-Ragnarok you have some status quo that feels like it's totally inadequate to the task of dealing with cosmic-level menace, that we get some Avengers in isolation trying deal with Thanos setting out to hoover-up the gems, maybe alerted by the Vision (or an attack on him). They fail, lots of cameos of universe-wide death, and the survivors band together for Part II. Probably a line-up of Thor, Cap, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Hulk, Spider-Man? Something like that. I wouldn't expect any of the Defenders to actually be included in IF II as active protagonists. Maybe there will be the usual scene of Earth-bound scrub heroes fighting fires and rescuing people or whatever.

[eldaec]

Jessica Jones had crack addicts, rape, mental illness, and far too much blood. A corporation like Disney doesn't do that with characters, then put them in a family film.

Someone from Agents is possible I guess, but I suspect the 67 characters quote was about merging the existing film guys. You have original avengers, new avengers, asgard people, guardians, ant man, black panther, strange, Bucky, spiderman, Fury, Hill along with Thanos and some number of named subsidiary villians to demonstrate how Thanos is stronger than what we've seen previously. CA 3 is likely to add a whole new layer of Shield bullshit that also has to be tracked.

That is already way too many characters. At a stretch maybe Coulson will show up, but I can't imagine anyone giving enough of a shit about Mockingbird to even bring the subject up in a committee.

[Khaldun]

I seriously cannot imagine that you will see more than 10-15 characters doing much of anything substantive. Everything else on that list will be Easter Egg-level appearances designed to dramatize the universal threat.

[jgsugden]

I seriously cannot imagine that you will see more than 10-15 characters doing much of anything substantive. Everything else on that list will be Easter Egg-level appearances designed to dramatize the universal threat.

I think that Cap III will give us a good idea what we can expect.  The 60+ characters mentioned for Infinity will probably be used about as much as Scarlet Witch is in Civil War.

I imagine that a few characters will drive the story, but that we'll see a lot of them doing stuff in a couple of shots, probably in response to a global invasion scenario.  We'll see.

[Evildrider]

There is no way all those characters are getting lines in the movie.  It's going to be a bunch of cut scenes of a bunch of characters in action and then brought back to the core group.

[Ironwood]

I would use Scarlet Witch in Civil War.

A Lot.

[Merusk]

This is as good a place as any for this.

This YouTube vid is 7 years old now and still sadly relevant to the Marvel vs. DC movie approach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av6fWfmugds

[jgsugden]

Marvel's Most Wanted Synopsis is available: Here

Not the premise I'd been thinking we'd see, but it makes sense, I guess.  Still seems like a spy show more than a comic show.  More Alias than Flash.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Oh look, buddy cop procedural drama with sexual tension. SO fucking refreshing to see that on tv. 

Hey, networks....could you fucking not?

[Evildrider]

But they aren't cops... and most cops aren't on the run.   

Never thought I'd see Dominic Fortune in a movie or tv show though.  Although I guess it kinda works here.

[jgsugden]

I'm disappointed.

ABC needs a real super hero Marvel show.  MAOS, Agent Carter and Most Wanted seem to be three versions of the same show.  They need to walk in different waters.  NY Street heroes seem to have been claimed by Netflix.  So be it.  Marvel needs to do a Flash quality series with a real set of heroes.  

Go family friendly with Power Pack.  A low power Avengers West Coast concept could work.  How about Ms. Marvel?  Cloak & Dagger?  Heck, get the rights back and do Fantastic Four (I think the family dynamic works better with more episodes rather than a 2 hour movie).  Just not another spy show.

[Lakov_Sanite]

But they aren't cops... and most cops aren't on the run.   

Never thought I'd see Dominic Fortune in a movie or tv show though.  Although I guess it kinda works here.

Two people solving crimes week to week, one person will be the wise ass/rebel and the other straight laced. The two people don't literally have to be cops for the formula to be applied just look at castle, bones, lucifer, the tattoo one, blacklist on some episodes more than others.  Saying buddy cop just implies they go around solving crimes/saving people but this is as formulaic as it gets.

[Evildrider]

But they aren't cops... and most cops aren't on the run.   

Never thought I'd see Dominic Fortune in a movie or tv show though.  Although I guess it kinda works here.

Two people solving crimes week to week, one person will be the wise ass/rebel and the other straight laced. The two people don't literally have to be cops for the formula to be applied just look at castle, bones, lucifer, the tattoo one, blacklist on some episodes more than others.  Saying buddy cop just implies they go around solving crimes/saving people but this is as formulaic as it gets.

Except that every show you listed actually involves a cop partner.  lol 

TV in itself is formulaic.. If you are going to be that broad.  I just said they aren't cops.. which they aren't.  I'm not saying it's not uninspiring though.


As for more supers on TV.  Outside of what Agents of Shield is doing with the Secret Warriors stuff, I don't see Marvel doing a full fledged superhero TV show outside of like Netflix.  Marvel is even more protective of their characters than DC is and with their "combined" tv/movie universe I'd rather they have it that way.  It's better than the bullshit of pulling characters and shit away from TV shows like DC has done.  Flash kinda breaks that mold but only because it was put out before the movie was announced.  Arrow is still dealing with that crap.

Oh don't forget incoming Damage Control TV Show, we could at least have the Wrecking Crew on there.

[HaemishM]

I don't really get why this show has to be a Marvel show. It seems to be wasting all that good material Marvel has to mine for something that Agents of SHIELD is already doing well enough.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I don't really get why this show has to be a Marvel show. It seems to be wasting all that good material Marvel has to mine for something that Agents of SHIELD is already doing well enough.

They won't be mining shit.  This is marvel because of the brand name recognition and will have even less to do with the marvel universe than shield(which is already really fucking atrocious). Sure they could make another procedural drama but where's the hook?

 The hook is setting it tenuously in the same universe as captain america so you can have one line about "oh remember when captain america stopped the red skull? well this bad guy is the red skulls third cousin twice removed."  then they will have a cameo from Paul Rudd's lanky russian friend in ant man.

[HaemishM]

That's where I think Marvel's TV division is really missing the boat. I don't know whether it's the movie division getting a veto on adding anything that the movies or Netflix might want or lack of imagination/budget on Agents of SHIELD the show, but they really are not utilizing the Marvel brand well. I mean, despite the idiotic firewall between movie and TV properties on the DC side, the DC TV shows are doing a damn good job of just putting all sorts of shit from the comics into the show. FFS, tonight's episode of the Flash is going to have KING GODDAMN SHARK. KING... FUCKING... SHARK. A giant, talking, walking, land shark. And it will be glorious.

I mean, give us Paste Pot Pete, or the Circus of Crime, or the fucking Wrecking Crew. SOMETHING. The Inhumans is a good start but at this point, no one is wearing costumes and it feels very Heroes - which is not a good thing. I still like Agents of SHIELD but I'm just not sure where Most Wanted would fit in there at all as something different. At least Agent Carter had the different time period and an exploration of the MCU past. This is just... another SHIELD.

[Velorath]

I have to assume that they have more planned for this show than what they've said, because I can't see what kind of ratings they would be estimating if their sole plan is to take two characters from a show that doesn't have the highest ratings to begin with.

If that's the only hook they've got though then I'm perfectly happy to avoid adding another show onto the pile of stuff I'm already struggling to keep up with.

[Margalis]

Yeah I don't get it. It really seems like they are mailing it in with the network TV shows.

[Khaldun]

The only other thing that might make sense is if it's actually a successor/replacement for Agents of Shield, e.g., that they're going to fold AoS in a season or so and then just cut it back to a more spy/cop thing with relatively minimal superheroics. That strikes me as possible just because there seems to be some inter-corporate tension over the Inhumans on AoS.

[jgsugden]

I think it is a comfort zone issue. ABC is scared v to b try something new that could fail like Constantine did for NBC. They're sticking to the formula they see as 'working'. I've been hoping that Flash would open their minds, but so far not so much. DC tv has generally done powers better than Marvel, and the presence of King Shark bodes well for us to getting to the real monsters of these universes soon on tv... probably on DC series well before Marvel.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Which is the wrong lesson learned because constantine was also following the procedural buddy formula which is one of the reasons it fell flat.