f13.net forums - Patch 5.2: Thunder, Thunder, Thunder, Thunder King Ho!

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June 25, 2024, 11:06:33 PM

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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8226552/Patch_52_PTR_Patch_Note_Preview-12_21_2012

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World of Warcraft PTR Patch 5.2

   General

      New Daily Quest Hub: The Isle of the Thunder King.

         Here players can join the assault to conquer Emperor Lei Shen's island stronghold, unlock new questlines and daily quest hubs, participate in special events, earn the right to visit the fabled Treasure Room, lay claim an arsenal of powerful Mogu artifacts for their faction, and more.
         Each faction's finest are spearheading the assault: the Kirin-Tor Offensive led by Jaina Proudmoore and the Sunreaver Onslaught led by Lor'themar Theron. Earning reputation with these new factions offers heroes the opportunity to receive new quests and reputation rewards, including powerful items and an intimidating new mount.
         After both the Alliance and the Horde have eked out a foothold on the isle, players can choose to perform quests that are PvE or PvP focused. PvP quests will direct players against opposing faction NPCs, but slaying opposing players will grant credit as well.
         As the heroes conquer the Isle, they will unlock the powerful Lightning Forge, which will allow Blacksmiths to forge mighty raid-worthy items, as well as classic weapons from the past.
         Players on the PTR can teleport to the Isle of the Thunder King at their faction shrines in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. While the Isle of the Thunder King will be unlocked progressively by each realm based on participation in the war effort, initially only some of the Isle’s features will be unlocked. Future updates will include the Shipyard and the Main Courtyard. Some features, including the Treasure Room, will not yet be available.


      New Raid: Throne of Thunder

         Emperor Lei Shen, the Thunder King, has returned to wreak his vengeance on Pandaria. It falls to the heroes of the Alliance and the Horde to stop the newly resurrected tyrant and his Zandalari allies in the massive new raid: Throne of Thunder.
         Throne of Thunder is a sprawling citadel housing 12 new raid encounters, and players that defeat Emperor Lei Shen in Heroic mode can earn the opportunity to face an additional 13th foe.
         The Raid Finder version of the Throne of Thunder will be divided into 4 different wings.
         Join the Shado-Pan Assault in their singular drive to see Lei Shen, The Thunder King defeated once and for all, and gain access to impressive Valor reward items. Reputation with this faction can be earned only within the Throne of Thunder raid dungeon.
         Please note: During the 5.2 PTR, this raid dungeon will only be available during a limited testing window. Keep an eye on our PTR Discussion Forum for details.


      The Legendary Quest Continues:

         Wrathion must know the origin and source of Mogu power, and Azeroth's mightiest heroes will aid the Black Prince in finding out what it is. The search for information will take players into the depths of the Thunder King's Palace, and pit them against trials of perseverence and skill. Along the way, they'll unlock the secrets to a new headgear enchantment, the Crown of the Heavens.
         Please note: Initially this quest is not available on the PTR, but will be coming soon.


      New World Bosses: Nalak, the Storm Lord and Oondasta

         Nalak, the Storm Lord

            After the Isle of the Thunder King has been conquered, the gate guardian of the Thunder King's citadel will appear: Nalak, the Storm Lord. Players will frequently have the opportunity to test their mettle against him.


         Oondasta

            Found in a place that has been lost in time, the great devilsaur lord Oondasta has been outfitted for battle with weaponry and armor by the Zandalari, and awaits players brave enough (or foolhardy enough) to seek him out on the mysterious Isle of Giants found in the seas north of Kun-Lai Summit.




      Buy The Farm

         Players that have grown attached to working the land at Sunsong Ranch can now purchase the land from Farmer Yoon. Once the farm is owned by a player, it becomes a rest point like an Inn, where the player can bind and instantly log out. Work orders will pour in to the farm from factions across Pandaria, and completing a work orders will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction.
         Please note: The new Sunsong Ranch features are not available on the PTR, but will be coming soon.


      New World Boss System

         All world bosses are now Tap to Faction. This new system offers every eligible player of the same faction that engages a boss the chance to earn loot. Under the new system, players will only be able to earn loot from each world boss once per week, but bonus rolls apply. Bosses will now respawn more frequently as well.






   Classes

      Death Knight

         Death Siphon now heals for 150% of the damage dealt (was 100%).
         Conversion now costs 5 Runic Power plus 5 per second thereafter (was 10 Runic Power plus 10 per second).
         The Bloodworms summoned by Blood Parasite now have 200% more health.
         Unholy

            Reaping now also applies to Icy Touch.
            Summon Gargoyle no longer costs Runic Power.
            Gargoyle Strike now deals Shadow and Nature damage (was Nature only).
            Ebon Plaguebringer now causes Plague Strike to inflict Frost Fever, in addition to its other effects.




      Druid

         Cyclone now has a 30 second cooldown for Feral Druids. In addition, it will now share diminishing returns with Banish, Seduction, Bind Elemental, Hex, Freezing Trap, Wyvern Sting, Gouge, Sap, Hibernate, Paralysis, Polymorph, Ring of Frost, Repentance, and Quaking Palm.
         Symbiosis

            Shattering Blow now has a 1.5 second cast time to align correctly with the Warrior version of this ability.


         Displacer Beast has been redesigned. It now triggers Cat Form and grants 50% increased movement speed for 4 seconds after teleporting, and no longer activates Prowl.
         Cenarion Ward now grants 100% increased healing.
         Frenzied Regeneration now scales 10% more efficiently with attack power.
         Tooth and Claw now scales 10% more efficiently with attack power.
         Mastery: Nature's Guardian now provides 20% more armor per Mastery rating.
         Rejuvenation now costs approximately 9% less mana.
         Revive and Mark of the Wild now cost 55% less mana.
         Faerie Swarm can now snare more than one target at a time.
         Mass Entanglement now has a 30 second cooldown (was 2 minutes).
         Typhoon now has a 30 second cooldown (was 20 seconds).
         The Treants summoned by Force of Nature now deal more damage and healing, and the Force of Nature tooltip will report the capabilities of these summoned pets.
         Soul of the Forest

            Balance: Now generates 40 Lunar or Solar energy upon leaving Eclipse.
            Feral: Unchanged.
            Guardian: Generates 3 additional Rage per Mangle.
            Restoration: Now grants 70% Haste on the next spell cast after the Druid casts Swiftmend.


         Nature's Vigil now has a 90 second cooldown (was 3 minutes), and now increases damage and healing done by 10% (was 20%).


      Hunter

         Bestial Wrath may now be activated when there is no line of sight to the Hunter's pet.
         Silencing Shot now has a 24 second cooldown (was 20).
         Binding Shot no longer has a Focus cost.
         Wyvern Sting no longer has a Focus cost, and its cooldown is now 45 seconds (was 60 seconds).
         Glyph of Marked for Death has been removed, and its effects are now baseline.
         New Glyph: Glyph of Liberation. This glyph now causes Disengage to heal the Hunter for 5% of maximum health when used.


      Mage

         Invocation now removes Evocation's cooldown and reduces its channeling time and duration by 50%. A completed Evocation now grants 15% increased damage (was 25%) for 1 minute (was 40 seconds) after an Evocation is completed. Passive mana regeneration is reduced by 50% only while Invoker's Energy is active.
         Greater invisibility now has a 90 second cooldown (was 2.5 minutes).
         Frostbolt cast by Mirror Images now deals 50% more damage.
         Improved Counterspell has been removed.
         Glyph of Fire Blast has been replaced with Glyph of Inferno Blast. Glyph of Inferno Blast causes damage over time effects spread by Inferno Blast to spread to 1 additional target.
         Blazing Speed can now be triggered at will.
         Cold Snap now heals the Mage for 15% of maximum health when used (was 30%).
         Ice Floes now has a 45 second cooldown (was 1 minute).
         Scorch now costs 3.5% of base mana (was 0.1%).
         Arcane

            Arcane Blast's mana cost has been increased to 1.66667% of base mana (was 1.5%).


         Frost

            Frostbolt now deals 24% more damage, but its debuff no longer increases subsequent Frostbolt damage.
            Water Elemental

               Freeze no longer does damage, and only provides Fingers of Frost on a successful freeze.






      Monk

         New Level 60 Talent: Ring of Peace

            Ring of Peace forms a 8 yard sanctuary around the target for 8 seconds, causing all enemies in the area of effect to be silenced and disarmed.


         New Windwalker and Brewmaster ability added at level 30: Nimble Brew. Nimble Brew removes all stun, fear, and root effects, and reduces the duration of those effects if they are re-applied by 60% for 6 seconds. It has a 2 minute cooldown.
         Chi Wave now does 100% more damage and healing, and no longer costs Chi, but now has a 15 second cooldown.
         Zen Sphere now has a limit of 2 (was 1), now detonates when either the recipient reaches 35% health or the Zen Sphere is dispelled, and no longer costs Chi.
         Chi Burst now does 100% more damage and healing, no longer costs Chi, and now has a 30 second cooldown.
         Path of Blossoms has been removed.
         Deadly Reach has been removed.
         Paralysis is now a physical, non-magical effect, and can no longer be dispelled, grounded or reflected, and its base range has been increased to 20 yards.
         Tiger's Lust and Touch of Karma no longer have a Chi cost.
         Tiger's Lust can no longer be used on targets that have other temporary speed increases active.
         Charging Ox Wave now has a 30 second cooldown (was 60 seconds).
         Dampen Harm can now be used while stunned, and its cooldown will now begin when used, not when the effect ends.
         Healing Elixirs now heals the Monk for 15% of maximum health (was 10%).
         Chi Torpedo now deals 15% more damage.
         Healing Spheres now have a duration of 1 minute. Healing Spheres generated by Mastery: Gift of the Serpent now have a duration of 30 seconds.
         Mistweaver

            Life Cocoon can no longer be dispelled.
            Zen Focus, the 4-piece Mistweave set bonus, is now more responsive.
            It is no longer possible to use Thunder Focus Tea while silenced.
            Healing Spheres will now heal for 50% of their original value if they expire without being picked up. This healing will factor in relevant Mastery.
            Xuen will now fixate on the Monk's original target.


         Windwalker

            New Level 75 Ability: Storm, Earth and Fire

               The Windwalker can summon up to two elemental duplicates that mirror damaging abilities that the Monk uses while they are active. For each spirit summoned, the Monk's damage is reduced: 1 spirit causes the Monk and the spirit to deal 60% of the Monk's normal damage, while 2 spirits will cause the Monk and both active spirits to deal 40% of the Monk's normal damage. Each spirit lasts until the ability is canceled, or that spirit's target dies or otherwise becomes unavailable.


            Combo Breaker is now a passive ability granted at level 15 that grants a 12% chance to make the Monk's next Blackout Kick or Tiger Palm cost no Chi.
            New Mastery: Bottled Fury -- Increases the damage bonus provided by Tigereye Brew by .2% per Mastery per stack.
            Tigereye Brew now increases damage by 1% per stack (was 2%), but is now improved by Bottled Fury.
            Tigereye Brew now gains 1 charge after spending 2 Chi (was 4 Chi).
            Tigereye Brew will now stack to 20, but only 10 charges can be consumed per activation.
            A user interface alert now displays upon reaching 10 stacks of Tigereye Brew.


         Brewmaster

            Mastery: Elusive Brawler now provides 25% more Stagger per Mastery rating.




      Paladin

         Hand of Purity now reduces all incoming damage by 10% in addition to its other effects.
         Eternal Flame's periodic heal now provides 100% more healing when self-cast.
         Judgment now costs 5% of base mana.
         Protection

            The base damage of Consecration has been increased by 789%, and it now scales less efficiently with attack power by approximately 11%.




      Priest

         Power Word: Solace has been redesigned.

            Power Word: Solace replaces Holy Fire. It deals the same damage and interacts with other spells and abilities in the same manner, but is instant, costs no mana, and restores 1% of maximum mana on each cast.


         Dominate Mind now has a 1.8 second cast time (was 2.5 seconds).
         Angelic Feather now has a 6 second duration (was 4 seconds).
         Body and Soul now has a 3 second duration (was 4 seconds).
         Glyph of Holy Fire has been redesigned. It now increases the range of Holy Fire, Smite, and Power Word: Solace by 10 yards.
         Discipline

            Focused Will now reduces damage taken by 15% per stack, with a limit of 2 stacks.
            Spirit Shell no longer benefits from Mastery, and now properly includes the benefits of Divine Aegis and critical effect chance.
            Rapture now provides mana equal to 250% (was 200%) of the Priest's Spirit, but no longer benefits from Spirit provided by short duration bonuses.




      Rogue

         Preparation is now a baseline ability learned at level 68.
         Versatility has been removed.
         New Level 90 Talent: Marked for Death

            Marks a target and instantly generates 5 combo points. When that target dies, Marked for Death's cooldown is reset. This talent has a 1 minute cooldown.


         New Level 60 Talent: Cloak and Dagger

            Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot now have a 30 yard range, and will cause the Rogue to teleport behind the target.


         Burst of Speed now costs 30 Energy (was 50 Energy), can be used in Stealth, and always grants increased movement speed in addition to breaking snare effects, but no longer breaks root effects.
         Shuriken Toss now causes the Rogue to throw shuriken instead of autoattacking for 10 seconds after Shuriken Toss is used.
         Deadly Throw can now interrupt spellcasting when used at 3, 4, and 5 combo points, and upon interrupt prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 4, 5 and 6 seconds respectively (was 5 combo points and 6 seconds).
         Nerve Strike now reduces the effectiveness of healing provided by the target by 25%.
         Shadow Focus now reduces ability energy costs by 75% while stealthed (was 100%).
         PvP set bonuses have been changed:

            Vigor is now the 4 piece set bonus and increases maximum energy by 50 (was 10).
            Deadly Brew is now the 2 piece set bonus, and its effects remain unchanged.


         Combat

            Vitality now increases attack power by 30% (was 25%).
            Blade Flurry now deals 75% less damage.


         Subtlety

            Sanguinary Vein now increases the damage the target takes by 20% (was 16%).




      Warlock

         The Felhunter ability Spell Lock is now an interrupt, and no longer applies a 3 second blanket silence.
         Blood Fear has been redesigned. This ability is now cast on the Warlock, and causes melee attacks that strike within the next 60 seconds to fear the attacker. When cast, the ability has 1 charge, costs 20% health to activate, and has a 30 second cooldown.
         Soul Leech now provides an absorption shield instead of healing.
         Sacrificial Pact now requires the pet to sacrifice 25% of its health to activate (was 50%).
         Kil'jaeden's Cunning is now a passive talent, and its activated ability has been removed.
         The passive damage from Archimonde's Vengeance no longer has a visual effect.
         Grimoire of Sacrifice now increases the damage of abilities by 20% (was 25%) for Destruction, and 45% (was 50%) for Affliction.
         Grimoire of Sacrifice now provides the spell Whiplash instead of Seduction when a Succubus is sacrificed.
         Glyph of Burning Embers has been removed, and its effects are now baseline for Destruction Warlocks.
         Glyph of Soul Shards has been removed, and its effects are now baseline for Affliction Warlocks.
         New Glyph: Glyph of Ember Tap. This glyph increases the healing gained from Ember Tap by 50%.
         New Glyph: Glyph of Drain Life. This glyph increases the healing gained from Drain Life by 30%.


      Warrior

         Shockwave now has a 40 second cooldown (was 20 seconds), striking 3 or more targets will reduce its cooldown by 20 seconds.
         Second Wind now causes a Warrior that has been reduced to 35% health or lower to regenerate 2% of their health per second (was 3%), and now generates 15 Rage over 10 seconds (was 20 Rage).
         Warbringer now reduces the target's movement by 50% for 15 seconds (8 seconds in PvP) in addition to its other effects.
         Shield Barrier now scales approximately 10% less efficiently with attack power.
         Storm Bolt now deals 125% weapon damage (was 100%).
         Enraged Regeneration now costs 30 Rage (was 60).
         Glyph of Death from Above no longer increases the damage dealt by Heroic Leap.
         Arms

            Taste for Blood has been redesigned. It now causes the Warrior to gain 2 stacks of Overpower (maximum of 5 stacks) when Mortal Strike deals damage or the target dodges, and no longer interacts with Heroic Strike. It now requires level 20 (was level 50).
            Slam now deals 220% weapon damage (was 190%).


         Protection

            The base damage of Shield Slam and Revenge has been increased by 150%, but these abilities now scale approximately 10% less efficiently with attack power.




      Shaman

         Elemental Mastery now has a 1 minute cooldown (was 2 minutes).
         Shamanistic Rage is now available to Elemental Shamans as well as Enhancement Shamans.
         Conductivity no longer requires that the target be within the area of effect of Healing Rain.
         Ancestral Swiftness now increases spell haste by 5% and melee haste by 10% (was 5%/5%).
         Glyph of Purge now adds a 6 second cooldown to Purge.
         Stone Bulwark Totem now absorbs 25% more damage.
         Unleashed Fury Flametongue now increases Lightning Bolt damage by 20% (was 30%), and Lava Burst damage by 10% (was 0%).
         Primal Earth Elemental and Primal Fire Elemental now deal 20% more damage.
         Elemental Blast now has a chance to increase the caster's Agility for Enhancement Shamans.
         Glyph of Flame has been redesigned. This glyph now causes the Shaman to heal for 50% of the damage dealt by Flame Shock.
         Flame Shock's duration has been increased by 25%.






   Quests

      Warlocks can now undertake a solo adventure that culminates with the ability to change the color of their Fire spells to appear Fel green. The quest begins for those Warlocks determined or fortunate enough to have laid their hands on teh fabled Codex of Xerrath.




   Creatures

      Zandalari forces have begun scouting the shores of Pandaria, searching for the perfect invasion point. The Zandalari can be found in Krasarang Wilds, Dread Wastes, Townlong Steppes, Jade Forest, and Kun-Lai Summit. Zandalari Scouts can be handled by 1 or 2 players, while elite Zandalari Warbringers will likely require a full party of 5 heroes. Defeat Warbringers to gain special drops, including crafting materials, reputation gains, an achievement, and even the chance to get one of three new rare mounts!
      Galleon now respawns much more frequently, but players can only receive loot from him once per week.
      Dire Horns have been added as a tameable species for Hunters that have learned the required skill. Aspiring Dire Horn owners should seek out clues regarding these auspicious beasts.




   Pet Battles

      Supercharge now provides a 125% damage bonus (was 150%), and its cooldown is now 4 rounds (was 3).
      Sprite Darter Hatchling – Evanescence and Arcane Blast have swapped ability positions.
      Nether Roach is now a real roach and can now survive the apocalypse.
      Battle Pet Bandages now stack to 25 and are Bind to Account.
      Battle-Stones now have a chance to be awarded from PVP Pet Battles.
      Pets whose color schemes change each time they are summoned have returned. Older pets with this behavior now have it back, as well as some newcomers.
      Pet levels will now only display on the map when pets are tracked.
      Taming the World now lists its reward correctly in the Achievements pane.
      Level capped players will now have a chance to each Lesser Charms of Good Fortune after winning a pet battle versus a Pet within 5 levels of the highest level pet on their team. Higher level pets will offer a better chance to earn a Charm.
      Winning a pet battle versus a team within 5 levels of the player's highest level pet will now award player experience.
      Fleeing a pet battle will no longer despawn the pet that was being battled, but doing so will now inflict some damage on the fleeing pet battle team.
      Disconnecting from a pet battle will once again respawn the pets you were fighting.
      Any pet that has been killed in a pet battle will now never respawn.
      A number of new pets can be found on the Isle of Lightning, including Rare spawn drops, wild pets, and raid boss drops.
      Elite Battle Pets have been added to the game world. These rare pets will spawn alone against an entire team. A new quest has been added to track progress as these new pets are hunted down, and defeating that quest will award the new Red Panda pet.
      Please note: Many of these changes have not yet come to the PTR, but will be available soon.




   PvP

      PvP trinkets that clear loss of control effects will now also clear these effects from the player's pet as well.




   Items

      Skyshards are now Bind on Account.




   Sunsong Ranch

      Seed bags have been added, that allow planting of crops 4 plots at a time.
      Yoon's Mailbox has been renamed to Sunsong Ranch Mailbox.
      The yield from special crops has been improved to make farming them competitive with gathering these items out in the world.
      Running the Master Plow across underground Virmen will cause them to pop out of the ground at 30% health and stunned.
      Wild Crops will now occur less often.

So get ready to buy the farm! Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

E: Oh God damn it, SA has the same thread title. Facepalm

More trolls Heartbreak

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Players that have grown attached to working the land at Sunsong Ranch can now purchase the land from Farmer Yoon. Once the farm is owned by a player, it becomes a rest point like an Inn, where the player can bind and instantly log out. Work orders will pour in to the farm from factions across Pandaria, and completing a work orders will earn a reputation boost with the issuing faction.

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Seed bags have been added, that allow planting of crops 4 plots at a time.
The yield from special crops has been improved to make farming them competitive with gathering these items out in the world.
Running the Master Plow across underground Virmen will cause them to pop out of the ground at 30% health and stunned.
Wild Crops will now occur less often.

Best patch ever.

That's an interesting way to put in a faction grind.

I like it.

Nothing on faction grinds? I stopped logging in because I CBF'd with the existing faction grind system. I'd kill for the old tabard system to come back.

I have very little time left until my annual sub runs out (curse you Diable 3) and GW2/TSW is now my MMO hit because they are designed with fun in mind. I really wish Blizzard would quit it with the faction grind to progress shit*

The balances look good, DK didn't git hit too bad and I'm not a frost fan so the Garg change rocks.

One thing I'd love to see is prot pally hit like a blood DK does, but I can live with it how it is.

*My guild died so I don't raid anymore, not even LFR. I've found all I'm logging for now is old content (ICC/Ulduar have to be the most fun raids in the game) and the occasional dungeon run.

Nope they still haven't put it in. I'm hoping since it's early in the PTR they address that. People aren't going to wait for 5.3 to get them back in the game over the daily fumbles.

It's concerning that the headliners for patches have been NEW DAILY HUB. Also, didn't they say a while back that they were done doing raids with 12-15 bosses? I can't recall.

Oh and a side point, I'm not sure how I feel about them bringing back the "inaccessible" 13th boss for heroic mode only.

Someone posted a thing about a non-tabard system in one of the threads recently. So you can't totally grind but you can or something like that.

Quote from: Paelos on December 22, 2012, 01:17:14 PM

To be fair, the 5.1 daily hub/faction is leaps and bounds ahead of Golden Lotus et. al. So if it's another one of those, rather than the 5.0 factions (or, more specifically, GL/Shado Pan/August Celestials because most of the other factions are fine as is) it will probably work out fine.

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Oh and a side point, I'm not sure how I feel about them bringing back the "inaccessible" 13th boss for heroic mode only.

OTOH, Ulduar is pretty much considered The Greatest Raid EVER! by most of the playerbase so deciding to ape it is hardly unexpected.

Yeah I hear that a lot about Ulduar. The problem is I don't think many people actually experienced it in it's original non-nerfed "glory."

Personally, I liked Naxx a lot more, but it's certainly up for debate. I'm just not sure how I feel about 4 more LFR groups, all in the same location. Will it usurp other LFR groups? Will people want to do the previous tier or ignore it? Will the previous tier give JP instead of VP?

EDIT: As an example, I hated the length of a place like Black Temple, and it's linear associations. This seems like heading back to that mentality. Granted that was before raid extensions, but it still forces the farm v. progression mentality if you want to raid it week-to-week. Unless it's not linear, and more winged, in which case I'm fine with that.

I dont know, the "faction grinds" are only bad the first time you do them on a fresh character. And I use the term "bad" losely since the Revered-Exalted grind is now half as long even WITH a new character since you can buy the +rep item for that faction as soon as you hit revered.

Those +rep items REALLY knock the a lot of the "grind" out of the grind for the vast majority of the factions. The only one that is still bad is the Golden Lotus, since they dont really have a lot of quests to take advantage of. The rest of them pretty much fly by. Hell, it took me somthing like 4 days to hit exalted with Order of the Cloud Serpent on my Paladin, and I didnt even bother doing the Archaeology or Fishing profession daily on him. I was revered with Klaxxi on my second day of dailys, and I had only unlocked about half of the paragons. I am not yet revered with shadowpan (because I ran out of quests in Townlong, and havent unlocked the SP dailys yet due to golden lotus), but once I get the shadowpan dailys open, I should be revered with them the next day.

With them adding rep quests to the Farm, as well as bonus rep to dungeons / scenarios through some as yet undetermined method, getting a fresh character to exalted with the faction of your choice is going to be so easy I fully expect to see people start bitching about lack of things to do as we come full circle once again.

I mean, hell, I just hit Exalted with the new Krasarang warfront faction on my main, and I havent even been doing the dailys every day.

You honestly have to stretch to call it a grind now, no matter how you look at it.

I consider having to do them at all... ever... more than once... a grind

Let me earn the rep while I'm doing things I enjoy rather than what Blizzard has delegated as "fun" and I'll be a happy player.

Exactly, you should get rep by doing things you enjoy. That was the point of the tabards. I would like it if they brought the tabards back for all dailies, scenarios, and dungeons.

I would like it if you could wear a tabard that assigned your daily rep to another faction if you were exalted.

Quote from: Paelos on December 22, 2012, 07:13:32 PM

Right, but that only really works if there are no "good" rewards on the reputations, other then larely cosmetic stuff. I completely see where they are coming from in that when you have quality rewards on the factions, allowing you to rep up with the factions essentially as a side effect of doing other things diminishes the sense that you are actually earning those rewards. That was the logic behind seperating the faction rewards from dungeon rewards in MoP.

Again - "logic" maybe (I have my doubts) but "fun"? No.

WotLK was good, hell Cata was good for giving options. Then as usual, they "fixed" fun.

The game is not real life. So why make people do things they don't want to? Give them options instead.

Then again, Blizzard fixates like Sheldon on crack.

Yep, they can't seem to find a middle ground. It's a constant tug-of-war between what's fun and what might keep people subbed indefinitely. I don't think they realize that those ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

Christ, I don't even recognize this game anymore.

Quote from: SurfD on December 22, 2012, 11:21:51 PM

allowing you to rep up with the factions essentially as a side effect of doing other things diminishes the sense that you are actually earning those rewards.

That concept can die in a fire. I am tired of assholes who use digital pixels to validate their self worth fucking over my fun. I already achieved in real life and I worked for the money to subscribe. Nothing in game should have to be "worked" for. The fun, in this case rewards, should be spoon fed to me if that's what I want. If they want to turn it into a job then the game damn well needs to be free. The challenge of anything in game should come from the content. It should be just rigorous enough to be fun and there should be different levels of rigor for the different type of people and it should all reward fantastically well. They need to quit giving a shit what the tiny vocal minority says about having people earn shit.

Quote from: SurfD on December 22, 2012, 11:21:51 PM

Quote from: Paelos on December 22, 2012, 07:13:32 PM

Wut? In Cata the epic faction rewards were better than anything you could get in Heroics; in WotLK they were on par with the epics which dropped from the final bosses of Heroics. I'm not sure how the rewards are better in MoP, other than there being more of them because they stupidly tied the badge rewards to rep.

The revered/ exalted rewards are better than heroic loot. They went back to the BC-Era "Heroics only drop blues" nonsense.

Quote from: Pennilenko on December 23, 2012, 08:28:45 AM

Quote from: SurfD on December 22, 2012, 11:21:51 PM

allowing you to rep up with the factions essentially as a side effect of doing other things diminishes the sense that you are actually earning those rewards.

When you're a hardcore gamer yourself, it's hard to see any other way. They live & breathe this stuff, it shouldn't be a surprise they can't distance themselves from it enough to question, "is it of value to make players spend 8-10 hours a week just grinding quests?"

And here was me thinking I was the only voice in the wilderness.

It's the usual story. The hardcore always forget that when subs drop to a certain point, Blizzard are going to stop developing the game. It might not happen soon, but the writing is on the wall.

If you don't give options then you lose your casual base. As the xpack ages, your casuals haemorrhage because they aren't prepared to follow your vision of "fun".

There is no diversity in this game. Hell, MoP destroyed it even more by bringing every class closer to their counterpart. I can't be assed levelling my Warrior/Druid because the fucking things are now as generic in gameplay as my Pally/DK tanks. They should left DKs to active mitigate and given a reason for people to want to play alts.

MoP was a massive step up from Cata but still two steps backward because they equate grind and "balance" to "fun". As is typical of Blizzard in the last 4 years, they have no fucking idea what fun is.

epeens can DIAF

Quote from: Rendakor on December 23, 2012, 08:47:35 AM

Quote from: SurfD on December 22, 2012, 11:21:51 PM

Quote from: Paelos on December 22, 2012, 07:13:32 PM

Wut? In Cata the epic faction rewards were better than anything you could get in Heroics; in WotLK they were on par with the epics which dropped from the final bosses of Heroics. I'm not sure how the rewards are better in MoP, other than there being more of them because they stupidly tied the badge rewards to rep.

Right, and that is the problem that they are trying to balance. I can seee both sides of the issue. They feel that getting essentially free access to stuff that is better then heroics simply as a side effect of doing said heroics (which already reward you with stuff) is a bit overkill. The problem is that they have not managed to strike a good balance where the risk / reward value works out well. They want you to have to "work" (at least a little bit) for any decent reward that improves your character. The question is just getting the amount of "work" at a nice level where the community does not really view it as a grind or a job, but still values the time or effort commitment involved.

The community will refer to anything that isn't fun as a job. Accessible dungeons, accessible raids, doing stuff with your friends without penalty, bosses out in the world, the original ideas of the token system over RNG. These things were consistently fun.

Adding restrictions on those types of things have caused nothing but problems. Oh and I don't believe LFR is a solution, either. I think in many ways it's taken things backwards because people don't even want to bother with groups. Accessible raiding with LFR difficulty in the "normal" raids would have been fine.

Quote from: SurfD on December 23, 2012, 02:33:42 PM

But making the rep rewards the only VP items available is where they fucked the dog. Don't make me grind dungeons/raids to earn Valor Points, then grind dailies to be able to spend them. I earned currency having fun, then had to "work" to be able to spend it. This is bad fucking design.

Quote

Don't make me grind dungeons/raids to earn Valor Points, then grind dailies to be able to spend them. I earned currency having fun, then had to "work" to be able to spend it. This is bad fucking design.

Yuuuuup. This, and the fucking active defense bullshit they crammed down tanks throats is why I'm getting near done with the game.

Quote from: SurfD on December 23, 2012, 02:33:42 PM

balance where the risk / reward value works out well.

Neck-beard game developers need to throw that concept right out the window. That's the shit that ruins everybody's fun right there. Its a god damn video game. There is no risk. Its just pixels. Reward me and my friends for subscribing to your shitty video game. That is all.

The only risk in WoW is dealing with other people. To design it otherwise is folly.

If you were starting the game from scratch, what class would you pick? I have some time off this week and after playing the 10 day trial I want to give the game a whirl again since I haven't played since WOTLK. Here are the answers to the dumb questions that usually come up with a post like this one (I'm also admitting this post is dumb as well).

Q: What role do you like to play?
A: I don't care, doesn't matter to me. Probably won't play long enough for it to matter.

Q: Just play what you think is fun! (not a question)
A: I don't know what is fun these days even though it's purely opinion based. I'm just looking for various points of view to the original question.

So if you were starting from scratch again, what class would you pick? (Your motivation could be speed leveling, ease of farming, easiest way to find a group or guild; whatever.)

I'd still be playing a fury warrior, because I think it's pretty simple to learn and level. I did enjoy leveling an enchance shaman from scratch recently though. Lots of fun utility stuff, if you don't remember that totems used to be different (or got used to them already).

Druid, Pally or Monk. They have access to all three roles and among them you're bound to find one you'll enjoy. Play one or two to level 10 or so and that'll tell you which ones mechanics you like the best. After that it's an easy swap if you don't like that particular role.

Of the three I'd go with Druid first. Monk is new so you'll get tired of the buff/ nerf cycle while they fine-tune them. Pallies suffer from more short-term buff juggling than druids and don't have nearly the utility of druids, imo.

Deathknight; maybe pally. Have played a warrior since vanilla and enjoy melee dps and occasionally tanking. I very much love farming old shit, and nobody can touch a DK for that overall.

Especially if those motherfuckers go ahead and nerf second wind, thereby fucking over my old-raid farming to make shitheel pvpers happy. They better at least unnerf the bloodthirst glyph.

I'd probably play a monk since they are new and have some interesting new mechanics for their specs. They also get some nice leveling perks. Panda monk would give you the most "new" stuff even if you didn't stick with the game long.

Outside of that, maybe warlock? The changes to the specs and the new talents are pretty neat, and if you happen to make it to 90 there are some warlock-specific quests that would probably be interesting.

As always, really depends on what play-style you like.

Only problem i really had with monks is that they are VERY scarce on abilities at the early levels. I think you end up with a grand total of 5 abilities worth using on your hotbar as a Windwalker monk by level 20, which really makes the early levels seem monotonous. Unless you go Mistweaver at level 10, then you get like 6 new abilities all thrown at you at once to play with.

I'd go DK. The storyline level 55-60 is the best in the game for character progression (plus you don't need to level 1-55). Once you get your tanking tools at about 65 its pretty easygoing to tank your way to 85. Got a quest that is hard to survive on? Blood spec. Unholy is fun for levelling as is Frost.

My monk is only 50 so not much to say there except that it was average fun and the kit is pretty slow to develop especially as brewmaster. Ret pally is fun but prot feels like watching paint dry compared to blood when levelling.

More dailies? I guess I'm done here. Sub expires in a few days (Diablo was a waste of time - Torchlight II FTW) and I just can't be arsed with the mandatory grind. I have other shit to do in my life.

Defence of the Alehouse?

http://www.bluesnews.com/s/137852/world-of-warcraft-patch-on-ptr-to-include-moba

Ok, this is either going to be fun or shit.

What I'd really like them to do is to return AV to its 24 hour/3 day game format - put everything back in including Kozzak

Hey guys, remember the green proto-drake egg lottery?

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94295-primal-egg

awesome, for real

(Also, Org/SW rebuilds continue, a whole bunch of new mounts & pets, a female troll (NPC) model that doesn't look like it's from 1999, +1K MoP faction rep consumables, and more: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3080-Patch-5-2-PTR-Build-16446 )