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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: To what extent should RP servers be enforced? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: To what extent should RP servers be enforced?  (Read 40151 times)
Samwise
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sentient yeast infection


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Reply #70 on: March 04, 2005, 01:55:54 PM

So humans can fight each other, but it's only if they belong to a guild that has formally declared war, otherwise an invisible force field prevents them from doing so?  I don't see how that's really any more believable.  Your statement can easily shift from "all humans in WoW are the magical kind that never fight amongst themselves" to "all guildmates in WoW are the magical kind that never fight amongst themselves."  Sure, you can draw the line in all sorts of different places, but the only way avoid the "they magically never fight" syndrome is to allow full open PvP.  Which would potentially make for a very un-fun game for those that don't enjoy massive gankfests. 

Even FPSes for the most part have "no friendly fire" as a default option, because outside of clan matches, every FF server inevitably devolves into a massive teamkill circle jerk at each spawn point.  I can't even imagine how you'd combine that with MMOG-style combat and a world consisting of not a dozen but a thousand retards, and then have something resembling a fun game.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Train Wreck
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Posts: 796


Reply #71 on: March 04, 2005, 02:13:39 PM

The non-role-players respond to the RP h4t3.  "If you say something on the boards in-character, I will ignore your entire post."

Poster is shocked to find that the world still lives on without him.
HaemishM
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Reply #72 on: March 04, 2005, 02:18:47 PM

I want pain and suffering damages in the amount of $300,000 just for reading the first few posts of that march of morons.

Calantus
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Reply #73 on: March 04, 2005, 04:45:32 PM

I want pain and suffering damages in the amount of $300,000 just for reading the first few posts of that march of morons.

Seconded.

Also, I never read "in character" board posts/threads. It just really really pisses me off.
schild
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Reply #74 on: March 04, 2005, 04:47:58 PM

Because of the two comments above this, I went ahead and read the first page as well. I'll finish this post when I stop crying...


...blood.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #75 on: March 04, 2005, 04:53:57 PM

You people suck ass for making me read that.

In other news, I'm glad you're not all retarded. With minor exceptions.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Shockeye
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Reply #76 on: March 04, 2005, 04:56:29 PM

You people suck ass for making me read that.

In other news, I'm glad you're not all retarded. With minor exceptions.

Will you stop dragging WUA into threads?
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #77 on: March 04, 2005, 05:04:31 PM

In the words of Schild:

Don't shit on my fun.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Shockeye
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Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


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Reply #78 on: March 04, 2005, 05:19:37 PM

In the words of Schild:

Don't shit on my fun.

In the words of Boog in the words of schild:

I hate fun.
stray
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Reply #79 on: March 04, 2005, 05:25:04 PM

If you ask me, out of everyone in this thread, WUA makes the best points.

And I'll be damned if I say it, I guess, but in most threads I've read with him in it, he seems to make a lot of sense. I really don't get the hate.

Then again, I'm probably the only one around here that likes Boog too.
Shockeye
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Reply #80 on: March 04, 2005, 05:32:27 PM

If you ask me, out of everyone in this thread, WUA makes the best points.

And I'll be damned if I say it, I guess, but in most threads I've read with him in it, he seems to make a lot of sense. I really don't get the hate.

Then again, I'm probably the only one around here that likes Boog too.

Why do you hurt me? What did I do to you? You're making me cry, but I have to be manly with other people near me so I'll just quiver my lower lip a bit.
schild
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Reply #81 on: March 04, 2005, 05:39:33 PM

Enjoy Olive Garden. HAR HAR. :-D
Shockeye
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Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


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Reply #82 on: March 04, 2005, 05:42:52 PM

Enjoy Olive Garden. HAR HAR. :-D

They have a Zoo Keeper machine there, douchetard.
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #83 on: March 04, 2005, 08:21:43 PM

So humans can fight each other, but it's only if they belong to a guild that has formally declared war, otherwise an invisible force field prevents them from doing so?  I don't see how that's really any more believable.  Your statement can easily shift from "all humans in WoW are the magical kind that never fight amongst themselves" to "all guildmates in WoW are the magical kind that never fight amongst themselves."  Sure, you can draw the line in all sorts of different places, but the only way avoid the "they magically never fight" syndrome is to allow full open PvP.  Which would potentially make for a very un-fun game for those that don't enjoy massive gankfests.

It's been long since proven that full-on gankage sucks.  (Cue trolling by Sinij.)  However, by instituting guild wars, you allow groups of like-minded players to implement their own group PvP in whatever context they wish.  If two uberguilds want to compare penis sizes by ganking each other, they can.  And if two roleplay guilds want to have a war in support of their own personal fiction, they can do that as well.  We've done player-run events in UO where certain people have been "captured" and a guild has to set them free by fighting their way through the opposing guild's guards, or one guild will be running a "convoy" of pack horses from one town to the next and the opponents have to stop it, things like that.  A bit contrived, sure, but there's just enough game mechanics there to let the roleplayers make up their own content.

Quote
Even FPSes for the most part have "no friendly fire" as a default option, because outside of clan matches, every FF server inevitably devolves into a massive teamkill circle jerk at each spawn point.  I can't even imagine how you'd combine that with MMOG-style combat and a world consisting of not a dozen but a thousand retards, and then have something resembling a fun game.

I'm part of a group of three or four major guilds, and maybe half a dozen minor ones, that all have a large ongoing roleplayed war.  There are certain "gentleman's agreement" type rules governing when you can kill someone, and with rare exception these rules are followed, since a guild of asshats will quickly see their wars terminated, leaving them with nobody to fight.

PS:  Hey Schild, I wouldn't do so since a PM is private by definition, but can you imagine how many folks would crap in their pants if I were to post the contents of our PM dialogue from a couple months ago?   :-D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2005, 08:50:46 PM by WindupAtheist »

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
schild
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Reply #84 on: March 04, 2005, 09:06:17 PM

PS:  Hey Schild, I wouldn't do so since a PM is private by definition, but can you imagine how many folks would crap in their pants if I were to post the contents of our PM dialogue from a couple months ago?   :-D

You mean when I asked you about maybe writing for us? That was long before you became a raging UO-fanboi asshole.

Everyone has a couple bad ideas, that was one of mine.
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #85 on: March 04, 2005, 09:49:42 PM

I'll stop being a UO whore as soon as someone puts out a fun and functional game that doesn't want me to chose an immutable race/class combo at character creation and then level them.  I really will.  But that aside, where have I used it to level unfounded criticisms in comparison?  Am I wrong in, for example, this thread?  If so, where?  If I alternated my "other game" comparitive references between UO, and say... Asheron's Call, would it still be objectionable?

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #86 on: March 04, 2005, 11:03:58 PM

I'll stop being a UO whore as soon as someone puts out a fun and functional game that doesn't want me to chose an immutable race/class combo at character creation and then level them.  I really will.  But that aside, where have I used it to level unfounded criticisms in comparison?  Am I wrong in, for example, this thread?  If so, where?  If I alternated my "other game" comparitive references between UO, and say... Asheron's Call, would it still be objectionable?

References had nothing to do with your points. It's the general attitude you blew in the previous months. Even if you wanted to be rational now, that's fine, you're still clinging to a fossil and you know it.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Calantus
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Reply #87 on: March 04, 2005, 11:30:38 PM

I'll stop being a UO whore as soon as someone puts out a fun and functional game that doesn't want me to chose an immutable race/class combo at character creation and then level them.  I really will.  But that aside, where have I used it to level unfounded criticisms in comparison?  Am I wrong in, for example, this thread?  If so, where?  If I alternated my "other game" comparitive references between UO, and say... Asheron's Call, would it still be objectionable?

Nobody gives a shit that your pet game is UO. It's just that you're a rabid fanboi. You could be a rabid fanboi of WoW and people would still tell you to STFU about it.
Jayce
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Reply #88 on: March 04, 2005, 11:38:48 PM

Am I wrong in, for example, this thread? 

Yes.  But I'm so tired of throwing words at the problem that you win.

Congrats, you win the argument through word count.

Witty banter not included.
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #89 on: March 05, 2005, 02:01:21 AM

Quote from: Calantus
Nobody gives a shit that your pet game is UO. It's just that you're a rabid fanboi. You could be a rabid fanboi of WoW and people would still tell you to STFU about it.

No.  My long-standing position has been that UO is a "broken down old whore" and that my continued interest in it is more of a sad commentary on the "Let's remake Everquest!" state of the industry than anything else.

Quote from: Paleos
References had nothing to do with your points. It's the general attitude you blew in the previous months. Even if you wanted to be rational now, that's fine, you're still clinging to a fossil and you know it.

It's a fossil!  Oh noes!  Tell me, when the New Big Game comes out totally lacking in guild war/alliance features, and without even a crappy "instanced apartments" excuse for player-owned territory, am I supposed to NOT conclude that MMOG design has gone backwards?  I mean, as an example, you know what sucked in UO?  Boats.  Man, they're still choppy lag-inducing pieces of shit to this day.  But has anyone done a system like that better over the last seven years?  Has anyone even TRIED?  Nope, but you can play the shiniest dikuMUD... like... EVER!

Quote from: Jayce
Yes.  But I'm so tired of throwing words at the problem that you win.

Really?  Let me recap.  You asked what I would do differently, and I threw six ideas at you off the top of my head.  Go back a page and read, three of them you thought were either "good ideas" or "damn cool" and the others you responded to with ambiguous comments about trash-talk concerns, possibly confusing newbs, etc.  Yeah motherfucker, if you're gonna pick someone to have won that exchange, it was me.  It certainly wasn't you with your "players can just ignore all quests" idea.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #90 on: March 05, 2005, 02:25:12 AM

You people suck ass for making me read that.

In other news, I'm glad you're not all retarded. With minor exceptions.

Will you stop dragging WUA into threads?

Should I vanish soon, it's probably because I just sent Shock a PM asking him to quit with things such as the above.  Calling names is fine if there's a point to go with it, but this is just admin-trolling.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Calantus
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Reply #91 on: March 05, 2005, 03:16:58 AM

The thing about you though Windup is that you make posts in these kinds of threads that wouldn't seem out of place in the politics forum. I did have the terrible insight just earlier that you remind me of a just-before-a-ban Bruce or Geldon, but I'll spare you the comparison. Oops, too late. :P
stray
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Reply #92 on: March 05, 2005, 04:03:23 AM

The thing about you though Windup is that you make posts in these kinds of threads that wouldn't seem out of place in the politics forum. I did have the terrible insight just earlier that you remind me of a just-before-a-ban Bruce or Geldon, but I'll spare you the comparison. Oops, too late. :P

Unlike Bruce, WUA can actually argue and/or make a point (Whether or not you like that point is not the point here though  smiley). He can also stick to the issue at hand, and not make the thread about his sex life.

Unlike Geldon, WUA is articulate. Rude maybe, but still articulate (and btw, Geldon isn't banned. At least I hope not??).

Anyways, without Raph around all the time, I appreciate the posts Windup makes. Somebody has to defend that side of argument from time to time.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 04:07:10 AM by Stray »
Train Wreck
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Reply #93 on: March 05, 2005, 07:52:07 AM

PS:  Hey Schild, I wouldn't do so since a PM is private by definition, but can you imagine how many folks would crap in their pants if I were to post the contents of our PM dialogue from a couple months ago?   :-D

By definition, it is no longer private when you brag about it publicly.

This makes you sound like a major douchebag.  Go play some UO.  It's crawling with people like you.
Jayce
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Reply #94 on: March 05, 2005, 08:08:32 AM

Really?  Let me recap.  You asked what I would do differently, and I threw six ideas at you off the top of my head.  Go back a page and read, three of them you thought were either "good ideas" or "damn cool" and the others you responded to with ambiguous comments about trash-talk concerns, possibly confusing newbs, etc.  Yeah motherfucker, if you're gonna pick someone to have won that exchange, it was me.  It certainly wasn't you with your "players can just ignore all quests" idea.

And it wasn't you either with your "WoW's problem is that it's not UO" argument.

Somehow, despite all the problems you have with it, WoW has accomplished something seemingly impossible in this space: a game that is fun at the beginning, end and middle. "Not the sort of thing that WUA likes" is not directly equivalent to "MMOG design has gone backward".

And for the record, I think that you're articulate and all that - I'd rather debate you than Bruce any day.  But I am tired of this topic.  We are never going to agree, that seems fairly clear.  We're to the point of talking at each other instead of to.

Witty banter not included.
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #95 on: March 05, 2005, 09:24:19 PM

Quote
And it wasn't you either with your "WoW's problem is that it's not UO" argument.

No, it's problem is that while it has lots of content, the player has very little input into the course of content-consumption or the customization of their character.  And that's it.  I use UO as a counter-example in instances where it fits (character customization) and leave it aside when discussing things like branching quests.  Now if everyone wants to call me a n00bz0r for not having played more games, fine, whatever.  If someone wants to point out where something from a game I've missed alters the argument, great.  And if they want to call me an asslicking polesmoker as they do it, they can knock themselves out. But I'd appreciate it if the board in general would quit trying to strawman me as coming into threads and randomly spamming "tihs game sux uo pwns."

Quote
Somehow, despite all the problems you have with it, WoW has accomplished something seemingly impossible in this space: a game that is fun at the beginning, end and middle. "Not the sort of thing that WUA likes" is not directly equivalent to "MMOG design has gone backward".

See, I'm almost one of those "virtual world" idealists.  Almost.  I don't want a PK madhouse, but I think these games would be much better if the designers could work just a little more "world" into their "virtual."  There's a happy medium in there somewhere, and I play my tired old game because it's a former PK madhouse that's been nerfed up into that middle range.  Anyway, yes, I have a strong opinion on what makes an MMO fun, and I'm arguing about it on a messageboard.  Again, stop the presses.   tongue

Quote
And for the record, I think that you're articulate and all that - I'd rather debate you than Bruce any day.  But I am tired of this topic.  We are never going to agree, that seems fairly clear.  We're to the point of talking at each other instead of to.

Meh.  I don't think anyone is really gonna argue that branching quests and more faction options are bad.  It's just a matter of whether you think they're a better investment of development resources than... say... a new uberdungeon or two.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Jayce
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Reply #96 on: March 06, 2005, 08:18:56 AM

Quote
And it wasn't you either with your "WoW's problem is that it's not UO" argument.
But I'd appreciate it if the board in general would quit trying to strawman me as coming into threads and randomly spamming "tihs game sux uo pwns."

I do get that you are comparing it to games LIKE UO, not UO itself.

My point is that obviously someone ... or many someones... enjoy WoW style gaming over UO style gaming. If you think that's a sad commentary on the world, fine.  To branch off into metaphor, if you like art-house movies over blockbusters, fine.  Go to the art-house movies.  But don't expect Jerry Bruckheimer to start making heartfelt dramas that have multiple layers of meaning.  Enjoy your fine and sensitive tastes and let rest of the world enjoy its explosions.

To use a metaphor a little closer to the point: 

There is a style of acting called Improv (bear with me). That's where, given a character, the actor responds in a non-scripted way to other people who have been given characters to work within. 

What most actors do, though, is given a script that specifies each and every word she will speak.  However, somehow even this acting is still classified as "creative work", even though the actor is "sliding on rails" toward a prescripted destination.

Both styles of acting are valid, enjoyable, fulfilling, and all that kind of stuff.

Witty banter not included.
stray
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has an iMac.


Reply #97 on: March 06, 2005, 09:52:38 AM

What most actors do, though, is given a script that specifies each and every word she will speak.  However, somehow even this acting is still classified as "creative work", even though the actor is "sliding on rails" toward a prescripted destination.

Both styles of acting are valid, enjoyable, fulfilling, and all that kind of stuff.

Yes, the end goal of scripts and/or scenes are prescripted, but improv still exists. Scripts and plays are written in a way so as not to be so fleshed out. Individual ideas and spontaneity still come into play in character development and how the characters relish within scenes -- with the goals and outcomes being guiding posts. I hate to ruin your analogy, but it's not as rigid as you think. Script acting is not the opposite of improv - it actually uses a lot of it. It's improv with direction.

The opposite of improv would be a situation where a director or writer wants the players to abide solely by his or her vision...That's never considered a good thing really (except by the one person in charge, of course).

edit: No, this is not a derail. Yes, this is still very much about MMOG's  tongue
« Last Edit: March 06, 2005, 10:18:42 AM by Stray »
Jayce
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Reply #98 on: March 06, 2005, 01:18:45 PM

I hate to ruin your analogy, but it's not as rigid as you think.

Don't worry - in fact you just made my point for me.  You've hit on WHY it's still considered creative work even though the script is worked out before the first actor ever says a line.

Witty banter not included.
Kail
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Reply #99 on: March 06, 2005, 01:37:54 PM

My point is that obviously someone ... or many someones... enjoy WoW style gaming over UO style gaming. If you think that's a sad commentary on the world, fine.  To branch off into metaphor, if you like art-house movies over blockbusters, fine.  Go to the art-house movies.  But don't expect Jerry Bruckheimer to start making heartfelt dramas that have multiple layers of meaning.  Enjoy your fine and sensitive tastes and let rest of the world enjoy its explosions.

Personally, I'm not saying that Warcraft is t3h 5uc|< or anything; I think it's a great game.  However, it's not something you can roleplay in very easily.  Lots of people like World of Warcraft, and that's fine.  It does a lot of things well.  One of the things it does not do well is encourage roleplaying.

I'm going to have to agree with what I think Atheist is saying here (feel free to correct me): specifically, that if you want a game where it makes any kind of sense to roleplay, you have to pull away from the very scripted, very linear form of Warcraft and towards a more open, "Virtual World" style game.  For roleplaying to have any meaning in a massively multiplayer environment, you need to give players the ability to differentiate themselves from each other, which World of Warcraft does not do.  Yes, you can refuse to do quests, but there is no positive action you can perform that will establish your character.  There is nothing you can do to establish yourself as a hired assasin type character, for example, you can only refuse to do things which contradict that concept.  You can't do anything assassin-ish, you can only refuse to do things that an assassin wouldn't do.  That doesn't establish your character as an assassin, it just establishes you as a guy who doesn't like to do FedEx quests, or whatever.

I'm not saying that World of Warcraft is bad in any objective sense.  A lot of people like it.  I like it.  But it is not a game in which you can do a lot of roleplaying.  If you want a game where you get a lot of roleplaying, you're going to have to open the setting up somewhat, or everyone will end up playing the same character.  This (as I see it) means less focus on the setting as a "game" in which everything is fair and balanced (and thus very, very tightly controlled), and more focus on the setting as a "world" in which players have the freedom to do a lot of different things (even if those things annoy other players).  This would invariably annoy some players.  Some people won't like it.  Some people will love it.  Does that make it worse?  Does that make it better?  I don't know about that.  But Warcraft definitely doesn't do it.
stray
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Reply #100 on: March 06, 2005, 03:03:11 PM

I hate to ruin your analogy, but it's not as rigid as you think.

Don't worry - in fact you just made my point for me.  You've hit on WHY it's still considered creative work even though the script is worked out before the first actor ever says a line.

Hmm, I don't see it as being all that comparable. It's probably best to drop the analogy and not get into it any further though....As much as I'd love to discuss the similarities of acting to virtual worlds.

So...Glad I could help. I guess  smiley
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #101 on: March 07, 2005, 01:51:33 AM

I'm going to have to agree with what I think Atheist is saying here (feel free to correct me): specifically, that if you want a game where it makes any kind of sense to roleplay, you have to pull away from the very scripted, very linear form of Warcraft and towards a more open, "Virtual World" style game.  For roleplaying to have any meaning in a massively multiplayer environment, you need to give players the ability to differentiate themselves from each other, which World of Warcraft does not do.  Yes, you can refuse to do quests, but there is no positive action you can perform that will establish your character.  There is nothing you can do to establish yourself as a hired assasin type character, for example, you can only refuse to do things which contradict that concept.  You can't do anything assassin-ish, you can only refuse to do things that an assassin wouldn't do.  That doesn't establish your character as an assassin, it just establishes you as a guy who doesn't like to do FedEx quests, or whatever.

TEH WINNAR!

But another frustrating thing is that WoW's strengths (tons of content, ease of use, high production values, friendliness toward casual play, etc.) don't preclude what we're talking about in any way.  There's no reason we can't have both, in theory.  But UO is way too old and creaky to have the production value, and WoW seems to have just not bothered with the "fluff."

I see my chocolate, I see my peanut butter, now someone fucking put them together.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
Calantus
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Reply #102 on: March 07, 2005, 02:12:08 AM

I see my chocolate, I see my peanut butter, now someone fucking put them together.

By the way, I see this all the time and I have to say that it's a disgusting combination and all devotees should be shot for gastronomic deviancy.
Alkiera
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Reply #103 on: March 07, 2005, 12:33:00 PM

I see my chocolate, I see my peanut butter, now someone fucking put them together.

I agree with you there.  I never got into UO, my only experience with it was the player shard that was made by someone who posts here, which eventually closed.  And I didn't play long, because a) the UO client is clunky, b) there was next to no documentation, and c) I couldn't be bothered to take a long time figuring out the interface for a game I wasn't enjoying initially anyway.

I've played lots of level-up games.  I'm tired of level up games.  I think an ideal game for me at this point would be one that lets you set skills up before hand, like a modern UO that lets you spend 500 points up front, no skill higher than 75% or so.  With character mods a la Shadowbane, spend some points to get some bonuses or penalties or some such.

Then, the game is not about rabidly trying to gain the last 200 points... it's about the quests(complex branching ones, with options  like you mentioned), it about working for one side/faction or another.  Some skillsets might push you toward one group or another, having clerical skills wouldn't be useful unless you'd spent some time helping out the church.  Perhaps the mages guild would offer to teach you newer spells in exchange for doing some research for them.

But most of all, the majority of the game is not about advancement.  The quests might give some money as a reward, but primarily would be done for 'faction points' or whatever with that group.  For in-character reasons... not because you're 10% from level 14, and want to level tonight.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Sogrinaugh
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Reply #104 on: March 18, 2005, 09:49:23 AM

The quest chain i have enjoyed most so far in this game, is exactly what WUA has been talking about.

In desolace, thier is a tuaren chick in ghostwalker post that wants you to weaken the centaur tribes by first gaining thier trust and then betraying that trust in the worst possible way, to "weaken" them.

The thing is, since nothing you do will ever ultimately weaken the centuar tribes as a whole, the thing that actually made these (mutually opposing, but not absolutely exclusive if you're really willing to grind) quests interesting is that for the first time you can AFFECT HOW NPCs ACT TWORDS YOU.  By killing tons of magram centuar, the gelkis will see you as an ally and turn green.  Then Uthek the Wise (gelkis leader) begins to trust you more and more, as you complete increasingly difficult tasks for her.

One quest in particular she asks of you, is *extremely* time-inefficient in terms of leveling, it involves you going to another continent in a place thats fairly innconvient to reach, especially for a horde on a pvp server, but i and several people i had been questing with really wanted to due it because it was cool to be gaining an ally, for our actions to actually have some effect other then generating a lootable corpse.

It was tremendously disappointing when this quest chain came to an end, and the fact that, as far as i know, thier is nothing else like it in the game.

I dont think alot of WUA ideas are outside of WoW's design contraints, it really is more a matter adding more of specific elements that are already present, but underdeveloped.
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