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Author Topic: Elite: Dangerous  (Read 662534 times)
Pennilenko
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Reply #700 on: November 23, 2014, 04:10:18 PM

Screw the track IR, I am going to go with Voice Attack and an Oculus Rift.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Sir T
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Reply #701 on: November 23, 2014, 10:04:37 PM

I've decided I'm not buying this till the new year, mainly as any problems with always online will be ironed out by then.

Hic sunt dracones.
apocrypha
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Reply #702 on: November 28, 2014, 01:41:10 AM

The latest newsletter contained, among other things, a player-submitted screenshot of Jupiter:



Is it just me or would you not have chosen a shot that actually looked like Jupiter rather than every single other ringed planet in the game?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
DraconianOne
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Reply #703 on: November 28, 2014, 02:46:52 AM

The latest newsletter contained, among other things, a player-submitted screenshot of Jupiter:



Is it just me or would you not have chosen a shot that actually looked like Jupiter rather than every single other ringed planet in the game?

You're right, it doesn't look anything like Jupiter at all. In fact, it distinctly looks more like Saturn to me...!  why so serious?

What you may be missing, however, is the other information in the picture. I think that yellow star just to the top and left of centre is Betelgeuse because that nebula looks awfully like Barnard's Loop. That would make that the constellation of Orion as seen from our solar system.

Personally I think that's damn clever!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

EDIT: in fact, I'm sure it is - because that looks distinctly like Orion's Belt in the middle of the nebula. Two bright stars near each other (Alnitak and Mintaka) with a slightly dimmer star (Alnilam - although I don't think it should be that dim) in the middle.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 02:51:11 AM by DraconianOne »

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Falconeer
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Reply #704 on: November 28, 2014, 02:56:57 AM

The Jupiter rings have raised more than one eyebrow. Still, they exist in real life and while they are not that bright right now Frontier can claim that in 1000 year our system's planets will look a bit different from what they know now. Similarly, Mars has been terraformed and in the game it now looks pretty much like a smaller Earth, and Saturn's rings are surprisingly fainter than what we are used to see in pictures.

Anyway, yeah, I don't complain but I would have chosen much more familiar looks for our solar system, considering is the only familiar one out of 400 billion. Seriously, the astronomical aspects of Elite Dangerous are hardly a thing to moan about.

If you don't mind some spoilers, here's a quick trip through our system, with a final landing on Abraham Lincoln starport.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 03:48:38 AM by Falconeer »

DraconianOne
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Reply #705 on: November 28, 2014, 03:16:34 AM

The Jupiter rings have raised more than one eyebrow. Still, they exist in real life and while they are not that bright right now Frontier can claim that in 1000 year our system's planets will look a bit different from what they know now. Similarly, Mars has been terraformed and in the game it now looks pretty much like a smaller Earth.

Anyway, yeah, I don't complain but I would have chosen much more familiar looks for our solar system, considering is the only familiar one out of 400 billion. Seriously, the astronomical aspects of Elite Dangerous are hardly a thing to moan about.

If you don't mind some spoilers, here's a quick trip through our system, with a final landing on Abraham Lincoln starport.

Now I've learned something! :D

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #706 on: December 01, 2014, 10:35:05 AM

I could have sworn that Betelgeuse is a red giant?

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Lantyssa
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Reply #707 on: December 01, 2014, 11:27:18 AM

If you say it three times fast, it shows up and swallows your planetary system whole.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
DraconianOne
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Reply #708 on: December 01, 2014, 02:53:28 PM

I could have sworn that Betelgeuse is a red giant?

It is but to the naked eye it's more yellow-orange. Here's a photo of Barnard's Loop (and the Horsehead Nebula) with Betelgeuse quite prominent in the top left and Rigel the bright blue-white star in the bottom right (click for bigger version)


A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Thrawn
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Reply #709 on: December 03, 2014, 05:16:11 PM

Been starting to look into this more, reading up on it, reading most of this thread, watching videos, etc.

I'm getting the impression that it's very pretty and has made some great progress and has some great ideas but currently I'm just not seeing much actual fun or much replay value in the Beta 3 game play videos I've watched.  They mostly are all the exact same videos of someone maybe buying something, undocking, flying around a bunch, maybe shooting an NPC some, docking again, repeat for hours.

Am I missing something or is this game just not worth the $50 even as a launch title yet?

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Malakili
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Reply #710 on: December 03, 2014, 07:56:42 PM

So, I decided to go ahead and get this a few weeks ago.  The question you need ask yourself, to an approximation, is - am I willing to pay 50 bucks for an updated version of Freelancer.  They've added some things in the gamma patches to add more missions and the random signals in space that you can go check out, but I haven't actually done those yet so I can't comment on them or their replayability.

For my part, I'm enjoying cruising around in a spaceship.  The game is well put together and enjoyable for what it is.
Thrawn
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Reply #711 on: December 03, 2014, 08:55:24 PM

am I willing to pay 50 bucks for an updated version of Freelancer. 

That would be an easy sell for me then.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Falconeer
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Reply #712 on: December 04, 2014, 12:33:33 AM

To me it's worth a 100 buck even in its present state but to lots of people it is not worth a 20 for exactly the reasons you mentioned, Thrawn. The thing is, stuff is gonna be added, but right now as we said multiple times it is very much like a trucking simulation with some dogfighting. Granted, it's all amazingly executed but definitely leaning on the dry side of things. I still tell all my friends to not get it now and wait and treat this as an Early Access game despite the official release scheduled for next week.

apocrypha
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Reply #713 on: December 08, 2014, 08:01:01 AM

Frontier just confirmed that there won't be another wipe coming before launch. So lots of beta backers will be starting off on launch day with millions of credits and high-end ships already.

Seems like another nail in the coffin of multiplayer in the game to me.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Pennilenko
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Reply #714 on: December 08, 2014, 08:10:19 AM

I think this needs to be repeated. There are many interviews where Braben explains that the point of multiplayer is almost entirely intended to be for small cooperative groups.  They have never given any kind of nod towards competitive multiplayer other than maybe some kind of leader board or the occasional new article on the bulletin board.

People looking for anything remotely resembling competitive pvp or twitchy Eve have hitched their hopes to the wrong game.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
apocrypha
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Reply #715 on: December 08, 2014, 08:17:04 AM

Tell that to the vast numbers of people on the official forums who continually tout pirate-style gameplay as the Best Thing Ever. I don't understand putting in systems like player interdiction and then not properly supporting the resultant gameplay that will emerge.

And if small group co-op is the (or even *a*) goal why are there STILL no actual grouping mechanics beyond sharing the same instance? No bounty sharing, no group content, no group missions, no group travel mechanisms.

Edit: Also, the idea of group jumping isn't happening now: "We're actually pulling away from the idea of drive slaving, for a couple of reasons. Technically it's pretty treacherous. Also, we are grown a little cold on it's actual usage, looking at how the game is played. So, sorry, it's not on the cards. instead, we want to try and make it as obvious and easy as possible to understand where your wing is and how to get to them."
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 08:33:08 AM by apocrypha »

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Malakili
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Reply #716 on: December 08, 2014, 09:24:23 AM

Yeah, the game definitely has its issues.  A friend and I have had some trouble playing together, but at the end of the day we're both still enjoying it.  It's a nice relaxing game to play.

Also, they did wipe not too long ago, so it isn't as if people are going to have months and months of an advantage.  And I'm not even really sure what that advantage even means in a game like this.   Unless I'm playing on the open server, I never have to give two shits about any other player who has been obsessively playing for the month before launch.  I can just play on my own or with friends, and then if we want to go on the open server at some point with our stuff we can.  In that kind of set up, where your single player and multiplayer character are the same I don't really see why a bunch of people playing for a month before you would really make a huge difference.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 09:27:06 AM by Malakili »
Falconeer
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Reply #717 on: December 08, 2014, 10:39:45 AM

I think the lack of a wipe is the nail in the coffin to what I would have liked for Elite Dangerous to be, meaning much more EVE-like. But honetly they have said a million times that it was never their intention to make it competitive and proof of that was that they let in the game the  semi-cheating ability to go solo in your own instance whenever you want and earn money against the AI that you could then eventually use against others when you felt comfortable PvPing. So yeah, lots are sad cause their expectations have been crushed, and you could count me among those who were hoping for more, but on this specific topic they have never lied and have been quite coherent with their original statements. And not even the elimination of the offline mode (while it is still possible to play solo) is not a contradiction of those original plans.

It's an non-competitive space MMO with 100% consensual PvP.


Quote
And if small group co-op is the (or even *a*) goal why are there STILL no actual grouping mechanics beyond sharing the same instance? No bounty sharing, no group content, no group missions, no group travel mechanisms.

They addressed that a lot last Sturday. All the things you listed will be implemented around February. Except for "group travel" which honestly is pure bullshit and I am personally very glad they decided to cut it. What's to like in an automated "follow" function in a game of this kind? They cut it because it doesn't fit the design, and I agree.

apocrypha
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Reply #718 on: December 09, 2014, 12:39:14 AM

Meh, I've heard too much "it's coming" and "wait and let them implement things" from this game's fans now. Releasing without basic group functionality in a game that is repeatedly advertised as multiplayer isn't something I'd handwave away with any other dev team, I'm not about to do it with this game just because I loved Elite when i was 14.

The last month or so has been rife with exploits being used in-game, lots of people have skipped weeks and weeks of grinding (the mainstay of the game) by using them, making 10's of milions of Cr in hours, and none of that is going to be wiped. I don't think that would be acceptable in a single-player game, and Braben and others can use the "it's solo if you want" excuse as much as they like, but then they can't go around trumpeting the wonderful multiplayer massive universe all the time too.

Is the economy affected by other players? If so then it's fucked from the outset because of all the un-wiped exploited cash out there. If not then they need to stop with all the bullshit about a shared galaxy.

It doesn't matter that people have 10's of millions on launch day but we can't have an offline mode? It's one or the other, if it's single-player then advertise it as so. If it's multiplayer then fix the exploits, wipe the servers on launch day and implement proper multiplayer features that a game released in 2014 should have.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #719 on: December 09, 2014, 01:50:05 AM

The last month or so has been rife with exploits being used in-game, lots of people have skipped weeks and weeks of grinding (the mainstay of the game) by using them, making 10's of milions of Cr in hours, and none of that is going to be wiped. I don't think that would be acceptable in a single-player game

What? Single player games have cheats and god-mode codes available since before they launch and there's nothing wrong with it. How would that not be acceptable in a single player game?

Now, this one is not just a single-player game (although it is, always-online mode is to prevent piracy even though they won't ever admit it) but as we said they keyword is non-competitive. I can't stress enough how much I would have liked it differently, but it is what they always said it was going to be (except for a true offline play-from-your-cabin-in-the-woods mode), so I feel I can't really hold a grudge to a fifty years old developer rooted in the pre-internet era.

Group functionalities? They will come soon as they said but personally I don't think they are even needed. For the most part they are the offspring of the same MMORPG generation that has been hurting games across the board for the last five years or so and they would and will make this game feel "artificial". You can still play with friends and do everything together. Sure, some tools will be appreciated but the big big big problem with Elite: D is its lack of life and engaging long term goals, not the lack of auto-follow, party window or shared quests.


Ginaz
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Reply #720 on: December 09, 2014, 02:17:06 AM



Now, this one is not just a single-player game (although it is, always-online mode is to prevent piracy even though they won't ever admit it) but as we said they keyword is non-competitive. I can't stress enough how much I would have liked it differently, but it is what they always said it was going to be (except for a true offline play-from-your-cabin-in-the-woods mode), so I feel I can't really hold a grudge to a fifty years old developer rooted in the pre-internet era.



If it has pvp, then it is competitive.
apocrypha
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Reply #721 on: December 09, 2014, 02:51:38 AM

OK let's change tack slightly with my argument here - what are the benefits to the game and the game's release by *not* wiping?

The only benefit I can see is to butter up the existing beta/gamma testers more. Regardless of whether or not you view the game as single- or multi-player the forums will be filled with annoyed new players who feel that they are disadvantaged further by not having a pre-launch wipe. I regularly see people posting proudly about how they were the first player to reach such-and-such a place. There is (or was, not sure if it's still in, correct me if I'm wrong) a bonus to discovering a system first in the exploration game. There are plenty of players who will insist that open multi is where the "proper" game is and will only play in that mode, as well as continuing to argue that there should be better rewards for open-multi-only players. Even if those arguments are ignored by FD, there will always be a competitive edge to sections of the community.

I can see no reason NOT to do a wipe at this point since it is far more likely to appease (to some extent) a lot more players than not wiping will.

My points about grouping/multiplayer functionality are more about the schizophrenic nature of E:D at the moment than anything else really. Is it single player or multiplayer, well it's kind of both which actually means it's doing a half-arsed job of both options IMO.

And yes, I completely agree that the dead, sterile galaxy and paucity of actual game are far more serious problems but I think they stem from similar places, i.e. a lack of creative vision and a lack of appreciation of how games have changed in 30 years.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #722 on: December 09, 2014, 06:23:32 AM

I think that they should wipe. It's really silly that they don't, and I wonder what's the reasoning too.

I guess I am just not surprised at this point because so many decisions from FD have been quite unusual for nowadays standards. Luckily given the nature of the game the lack of a wipe is not a big deal as it would be even in a more traditional MMORPG where the world feels "used" if you don't get in on day 1.

apocrypha
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Reply #723 on: December 09, 2014, 07:36:12 AM

so many decisions from FD have been quite unusual for nowadays standards.

Amen to that, they're certainly a very strange group of developers.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Daeven
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Reply #724 on: December 09, 2014, 05:52:09 PM

Well I just had a month without decent internet and all I could play was offline stuff, so it is a thing.

I mean, I know it's a thing.  But if you're someone who really wants to play solo Elite, barring this kind of frankly rare scenario these days, you can still do it.  I guess you could just be upset enough with them for the decision that you don't buy the thing in principle but "I have no interest in online play" seems odd when "online play" no longer means "multiplayer" and I get the feeling that people don't want to play multiplayer.

2 Things

1 - I have no interest in ONCE AGAIN explaining different playstyles, environment or personal tastes to you.  YOU are not ME.  It's that simple.
2 - I eagerly awaiting this thing getting released on consoles entirely in offline mode.

FUCK Always Online.  It's a Lie and It's Always a Lie.

You fuckers jumped up and down on me for Diablo 3 for fucking ages and it all played out pretty much as some of us here predicted.  Get Always Online To Fuck.

Also, once NN gets raped, always online is just gonna be another tax.

Know whats really amazing about Always Online mode? Playing via wireless and having the connection drop during your SINGLE PLAYER FUCKING GAME and having the game exit because your SINGLE MOTHERFUCKING PLAYER GAME can't talk to the universe.

Yeah.

I love that.

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

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Lantyssa
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Reply #725 on: December 09, 2014, 06:51:51 PM

It wasn't a problem for Diablo 3! awesome, for real

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Daeven
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Reply #726 on: December 09, 2014, 07:48:31 PM

It wasn't a problem for Diablo 3! awesome, for real

*sounds of explosions in the distance....*

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
apocrypha
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Reply #727 on: December 10, 2014, 03:37:11 AM

There's an effort going on to test the persistent universe by shifting faction control of a system. I'll be keeping an eye on this, interested to see what effect player actions can have!

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #728 on: December 10, 2014, 03:49:50 AM

Brace for disappointment in 3... 2... 1...!

Seriously, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if anything good came out of that. From personal experience, and some Dev posts, I take it all the cool parts about the persistent galaxy and dynamic events are still in their infancy. This is a game that should definitely bear the Early Access tag, and like DayZ for example, should be backed, purchased, supported, and then set aside for actual play and enjoyment not before late 2015. There's simply not enough content right now to prevent burning out quickly and become disillusioned, which would be a pity.

Falconeer
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Reply #729 on: December 10, 2014, 08:32:46 AM

Who the hell makes a Launch Trailer with "no actual footage" in it these days?

Frontier Developments, that's who.

Thrawn
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Reply #730 on: December 10, 2014, 11:01:15 AM

Who the hell makes a Launch Trailer with "no actual footage" in it these days?

Frontier Developments, that's who.

The community response to the video seems to be very negative.  Lots of "Cool video but extremely misleading of what the game actually is." type comments.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Falconeer
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Reply #731 on: December 10, 2014, 11:39:09 AM

That video is an insult, seriously. Pathetic.

To clarify:

- It does not represent the game at all, to the point of not actually showing a single frame from the actual game. I thought that kind of stuff died about ten years ago, maybe fifteen. (Mount & Blade Vikings just did a live-action trailer with no game footage.... still...)
- The music does not fit with the game one bit. This is not "Need For Sp-ace".

Horrible move by Frontier. Worrisome.

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Reply #732 on: December 10, 2014, 11:59:51 AM

So all those ship flying scenes isn't what the game looks like?
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Reply #733 on: December 10, 2014, 12:03:57 PM

Man, fuck that space station.  I'd take my space-crates somewhere else.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #734 on: December 10, 2014, 01:37:48 PM

So all those ship flying scenes isn't what the game looks like?


Oh it looks great. But it's not that lively, not that colourful, not that fast and agile. It's the difference you can imagine between "concept" and "actual gameplay".



EDIT:

New patch today, they added the Lakon Type 7 and another classic design, the Adder, which in 1993 looked pretty much like this:




and now looks like this:

« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:33:05 PM by Falconeer »

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