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Author Topic: Elite: Dangerous  (Read 662401 times)
Falconeer
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Reply #665 on: November 18, 2014, 02:37:23 PM

I'm impressed that you actually copied all that in and formatted it all. That's dedication.  awesome, for real
After all this time, I expect no less from him.

I have a few obsessive compulsive things. Nothing major, but they are there.

apocrypha
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Reply #666 on: November 19, 2014, 02:26:06 AM

Two things notably missing from that Q&A. First any explanation of why the decision to renege on the offline mode was communicated so late, and secondly any form of apology for it. The closest he comes to that is to say he's "sorry that people are so upset about it, but it was the right decision". Classic non-apology.

Also, refund requests are simply being denied by the looks of it:

Quote
The cancellations and returns policy on our site states that digital products are non-refundable once they are downloaded and played by the customer. As such, we are unable to offer you a refund on this purchase.

I’m sorry that we cannot assist you further in this instance.

Sincerely,
Support

That's from this thread. There's someone in there who bought the game 6 days ago and has had their refund request denied.

I think that there would've been much less uproar if the game as it is was any good tbh. I think there's a lot of people with early backer's remorse who can use the cancellation of offline mode to say that's why they want a refund, rather than just because the game is shit. And that might be an unconscious thing, for sure.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #667 on: November 19, 2014, 02:47:17 AM

Also, no mention of external cameras. It is important.

Anyway, if they fix grouping AND add some meaingful stuff when it comes to the "background simulation" and the feeling that the universe is alive, I will consider the game good even in its infancy stage. And I don't consider that an impossible task for launch, although I don't really believe they'll make it. I don't have any doubts about how awesome the game will be in a year or two, but at the moment this is just another rushed release, or an "early access" in disguise.

Falconeer
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Reply #668 on: November 19, 2014, 03:14:13 PM

Newsletter #50 is out two days ahead of the usual, and in full damage control mode they tried to reveal a few good things about the upcoming version 3.9 and the road to release in a month.

In short:

- Progression through the Elite ranks will come through combat, trading and exploration.
- Overhaul of the Unidentified Signals, making them more varied and interesting.
- Barter with other player (this is interesting and unexpected... barter goods but no buy/sale so no direct money transfer? Cool I guess?)
- Open Voice Communication between up to 6 members of a group.
- Ship Outfitting and Galaxy Map overhaul.

Then, something cryptic about what the expect for release:

Quote
The 16th December release of Elite: Dangerous will see the Federation, Empire and Alliance start their machinations in earnest, adding a new depth to your experiences in the galaxy. The design team are being tight-lipped about this. All we have heard is that “Hengist Duval is sick”. More on 22 November.

And then there are some new cool screenshots that deserve to be seen.




Two more...


Malakili
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Reply #669 on: November 19, 2014, 03:21:29 PM

Screenshots without any gameplay context.  How compelling. why so serious?
DraconianOne
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Reply #670 on: November 19, 2014, 03:26:08 PM

I do like that Python (if that's what it is)  awesome, for real

As a side note, on Saturday I was planning on taking my son and his friend to the National Museum of Computing which is just up the road from us in Bletchley Park for a free coding class.  Just found out that they are planning an Elite day on that day with the option to play Elite on BBC B, C64, Amiga and even the NES. DRILLING AND MANLINESS  

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Falconeer
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Reply #671 on: November 20, 2014, 05:44:27 AM

Split ranking for Combat, Trade and Exploration coming with today's patch.


DraconianOne
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Reply #672 on: November 20, 2014, 06:03:50 AM

I notice the little "Rebuy Cost" field in there too.  Is that new - certainly didn't see it last time I played.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
DraconianOne
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Reply #673 on: November 20, 2014, 06:17:08 AM

re Wipes:

This posted by Michael Brookes

Quote
There is definetly a wipe for Beta 3.9 and the start of gamma.

Contrary to what I've said before there may be a wipe for launch. This is being discussed here at the moment and would be due to code and galaxy changes between now and the end of gamma. I'll post when a decision has been made.

Michael

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23758&page=165&p=1037177&viewfull=1#post1037177

Hope they tell us in good time because, honestly, enjoying pissing around in SWTOR again and I'm not going to start playing E: D again if it's all going to get wiped in a month.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Falconeer
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Reply #674 on: November 20, 2014, 06:34:29 AM

I don't mean no disrespect, but you people (those of you who did) are crazy and have been crazy to play around with this so much before launch. You all know I am obsessed with it, and still I forced myself not to put more than 10 hours, max, over the last 6 months. Unfinished is unfinished, and I can only blame myself if I burn out over unfinished content before release.

DraconianOne
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Reply #675 on: November 20, 2014, 06:48:14 AM

Who are you talking to?


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Falconeer
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Reply #676 on: November 20, 2014, 06:59:24 AM

I am sorry I included you because I thought the only people worrying about a wipe are those who played long enough to amass anything worth time or money. Same if you were going to start now. December 16th won't probably change much, but I stand by my point that considering how things are evolving it is a good idea to wait until the very last pre-launch patch before investing any real time in E:D.

DraconianOne
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Reply #677 on: November 20, 2014, 08:06:57 AM

Oh yes, totally agree. Hence my previous post - previously they had hinted that they would try to avoid a wipe between Gamma and release (although that seems silly to me) and if that was going to be the case then I'd be tempted to start playing more. But if they're not sure then I'm not going to bother and carry on playing something else for a month.

As an aside, another cryptic but enticing quote from Brookes on the forums:

Quote
Quote
Quote Originally Posted by vjek

How many new ships are currently planned to be added to the game between now and December 16th?

Keep your eyes peeled for a future newsletter.

Michael

So going by yesterday's newsletter, Orca and Python today and then some more added in the run up to official release? That would be nice.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Falconeer
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Reply #678 on: November 20, 2014, 03:26:45 PM

Patch 3.9 is here.



NEW CONTENT/FEATURES

- Permits needed to access systems within excluded regions or specific systems requireing permits (like Sol)
- Missions can give permits as rewards
- Mission branching added
- Major faction missions added
- Added many new mission templates
- System states generate Unedintified Signal Sources and missions
- Multiple user voice comms support added
- Rare goods added
- Added imperial starport variants
- Add custom Earth and Mars to Sol
- Trade Route data for the current system is provided for free upon connecting to the Station Services
- Major faction (Imperial and Federation) missions added
- More variety for USSs added

Full Patch Notes

apocrypha
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Reply #679 on: November 20, 2014, 11:58:21 PM

Saying nothing. Don't wanna be accused of being a fun vampire.  why so serious?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #680 on: November 21, 2014, 12:29:36 AM

I don't think anyone is having that much fun yet anyway. These are good steps, and still not yet enough.

In the meantime, I wanna share this screenshot I took yesterday as I left the little outpost I was docked to. I couldn't help staying there for a good twenty minutes staring at the rising sun as it slowly came up in real time.





apocrypha
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Reply #681 on: November 21, 2014, 12:59:34 AM

Very nice!

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
DraconianOne
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Reply #682 on: November 21, 2014, 02:44:09 AM

The new trade route data function is interesting (in a "haven't yet played it so can't really give a full opinion about whether I think it's good, bad or indifferent").  If you are in a system (presumably docked) then you get the trade data from that system for free for a 24 hour period. You can buy trade data for a nearby system if you want (for about 100cr) and the effect is this (click to view):



The commodities screen now shows whether items are exported or imported to a particular system. Now I still think the UI is a little clunky to look at - no filters for a start - but it's a step in the right direction.  I also notice that the commodity description contains export destinations too.

The outfitting screen unfortunately looks much the same but has been reorganized and it's far easier to see whether there are items available for a particular slot.

Galaxy map system view now shows what services are available at stations e.g. shipyard, outfitting, rearm/repair etc.  Still no way of seeing what is sold where from what little I've seen.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
apocrypha
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Reply #683 on: November 21, 2014, 04:22:01 AM

The commodities screen now shows whether items are exported or imported to a particular system.

Isn't that just a text version of the same information that was visible on the galaxy map as coloured arrows? Or am I missing something?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #684 on: November 21, 2014, 04:24:57 AM

Even if that was the case (and I don't know about it), it would still be a huge and much needed quality of life improvement. We need more of these too. Like the new outfit screen, I disagree with Draconian as I think the steps forward in that department are significant.

Still, need more life, more NPCs, more things to do and more feedback. And external cameras.

DraconianOne
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Reply #685 on: November 21, 2014, 05:06:42 AM

Isn't that just a text version of the same information that was visible on the galaxy map as coloured arrows? Or am I missing something?

It may well be but the fact that it's no longer on just the Galaxy map makes it easier for traders. And no, I don't know if the info is now more accurate than it was nor whether it updates dynamically depending on commodity availability.  But it's definitely much improved in terms of giving traders information.  I haven't looked at the Galaxy map in detail nor to see what, if anything, has been updated about the trade route screen.

Like the new outfit screen, I disagree with Draconian as I think the steps forward in that department are significant.

Still, need more life, more NPCs, more things to do and more feedback. And external cameras.

Oh, I think the changes are significant, I just still don't like the outfit screen UI and think it's unnecessarily complicated.  In some respects. I don't think there's anything wrong with the old 1984 way of showing a list of what's available at the station rather than a list of all your available slots and then it taking multiple clicks to actually see what the station has.  It's ass over tit backwards in its design - but at least you can now easily see which slots might have something available for sale at the station

In terms of more life and things to do, there does appear to be more work done on the missions. One example was of a pilot with a mission geting contacted by a pirate at a USS  and told they were being set up by the mission giver and giving them an option to deliver their cargo to a different destination for more reward. Another player said he took an assassination mission and in one of the possible target systems, overhead (read!) some NPC comms chatter giving hints about the target's location.

As for story, I haven't got a clue if there's anything in there at the moment but that teaser in the newsletter this week, "Hengist Duval is sick" apparently refers to the Emperor on Achenar. I missed out on that piece of Elite lore because I never played FFE.

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calapine
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Reply #686 on: November 21, 2014, 12:56:27 PM

No matter how crazy you are, there is always someone worse. € 4000 Elite setup:







Youtube

  • 3 beamers,
  • Track IR,
  • Leap Motion Controller,
  • HOTAS-Joystick Saitek X52 Pro,
  • Logitech G19 keyboard,
  • self-built touch-interfacing consisting of 3 Ventos 10.1 Surftabs
  • GPUs are 2 Radeon R9 290 Tri-X OC.
  • Soundsystem Logitech z 5500 5.1

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Khaldun
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Reply #687 on: November 21, 2014, 01:16:47 PM

So what I still really am not clear on after reading all this is:

1) Is there dynamism to trade? E.g., do commodity prices fluctuate, and do they fluctuate partially based on some kind of supply-demand mechanic? Or is just arbitrary and static--once you figure out a profitable trade route, you just do it again and again and again and again?

2) Is there any kind of "seeded" hand-built content out there in all the procedurally generated content? If you go exploring will you occasionally be surprised by strange artifacts, pirate bases, mysterious signals, weird derelicts, etc etc? Do missions sometimes take a surprising turn, or have a fun/cool scripted element that goes beyond FedEx/kill Foozle?
apocrypha
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Reply #688 on: November 21, 2014, 01:29:55 PM

Again, I've not played since beta 2 so some of this may have changed.

1) Is there dynamism to trade? E.g., do commodity prices fluctuate, and do they fluctuate partially based on some kind of supply-demand mechanic? Or is just arbitrary and static--once you figure out a profitable trade route, you just do it again and again and again and again?

Prices were changing, but not much, what was more common was that supply of a commodity would suddenly dry up at a particular station. However in general profitable trade routes were pretty much static. When supply did run out it would replenish not long later. It's claimed that the market is responsive to player actions, the only evidence of this I saw was the limited supply issue.


2) Is there any kind of "seeded" hand-built content out there in all the procedurally generated content? If you go exploring will you occasionally be surprised by strange artifacts, pirate bases, mysterious signals, weird derelicts, etc etc? Do missions sometimes take a surprising turn, or have a fun/cool scripted element that goes beyond FedEx/kill Foozle?

I found nothing like any of those things in the time I was playing. Except once, at a USS (unidentified signal source) there was a large NPC hauler ship flying around broadcasting that it was buying and selling ores and minerals. There was no way to actually interact with it other than shooting it.

That's it. And I've heard of nothing else from anyone either. If there is any hand-built stuff outside of the proc gen then it's either not live yet or nobody's found it.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #689 on: November 21, 2014, 01:45:10 PM

1) Is there dynamism to trade? E.g., do commodity prices fluctuate, and do they fluctuate partially based on some kind of supply-demand mechanic? Or is just arbitrary and static--once you figure out a profitable trade route, you just do it again and again and again and again?

Pretty much yes, although so far it is all vs. AI as there's no real trade between players. Players trade affect the market prices, but as far as I know players cannot really trade with each other (although they can barter, in space). Latest patch introduced "Rare goods", which is a nice idea since they seem to be pretty rare and as the screenshot says they gain value the further you travel from the place where they are produced.




Quote
2) Is there any kind of "seeded" hand-built content out there in all the procedurally generated content? If you go exploring will you occasionally be surprised by strange artifacts, pirate bases, mysterious signals, weird derelicts, etc etc? Do missions sometimes take a surprising turn, or have a fun/cool scripted element that goes beyond FedEx/kill Foozle?

The answer is... we don't know. Yesterday's patch is the one that shoud start the whole "dynamic galaxy" thing. It introduced what is possibly the foundations of this "seed" system, and they keep saying it will work exactly the way you worded it. Hard to say if this will happen in a month, or a year, or never. Right now, I'd say no it doesn't work, although there are reports since last patch about much more interesting branched missions (including one where you were supposed to deliver some stuff to a station, but you get interdicted by some pirate who tell you that you are being framed and scammed and you should sell the stuff to them instead. Also, reputation got introduced recently and that allows you to take missions you couldn't otherwise get, and at the same time losing the favour of enemy factions and so on. In their dreams, people helping some factions over others will make that faction take over the system and change politics, influencing market prices, storyline and all. But since the patch just launched it's hard to tell if this is already possible. It sounds like a good start, but once again, the whole system seems to be in its infancy.

Tomorrow there's another big patch, and even though they said there won't be many new features they mentioned a few new "goodies". At this point, every new tiny thing piles up to build the stack of what should be a good game at some point. Also, something is up their sleeves for the December 16th launch since they hinted to a "story" bit.


EDIT: Today's patch introduced "Increased the cool down for Frame Shifting to 40 seconds for all ships", which means that if you lose the interdiction minigame and got pulled out of supercruise, you can't just jump back in and escape as easily as you used before.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:49:16 PM by Falconeer »

Venkman
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Reply #690 on: November 21, 2014, 07:50:51 PM

No matter how crazy you are, there is always someone worse. € 4000 Elite setup:

  • 3 beamers,
  • Track IR,
  • Leap Motion Controller,
  • HOTAS-Joystick Saitek X52 Pro,
  • Logitech G19 keyboard,
  • self-built touch-interfacing consisting of 3 Ventos 10.1 Surftabs
  • GPUs are 2 Radeon R9 290 Tri-X OC.
  • Soundsystem Logitech z 5500 5.1

Can someone explain track IR to me? Last time I checked one out (I think it was Track IR), when I turned my head, it would rotate the POV on the monitor. So, a stationary monitor in front of me, Track IR headgear, when I turn my head to the left, the view changes on my screen.

That's very different than me looking left to actually look left. Instead, it's turning my head to the left but still keeping my eyes looking forward. Weird and dumb.

And the above guy's setup? That's cool and all, but why would it need track IR? Just look left?

What am I missing?
calapine
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Reply #691 on: November 21, 2014, 09:35:53 PM

Can someone explain track IR to me? Last time I checked one out (I think it was Track IR), when I turned my head, it would rotate the POV on the monitor. So, a stationary monitor in front of me, Track IR headgear, when I turn my head to the left, the view changes on my screen.

That's very different than me looking left to actually look left. Instead, it's turning my head to the left but still keeping my eyes looking forward. Weird and dumb.

And the above guy's setup? That's cool and all, but why would it need track IR? Just look left?

What am I missing?

People have described it as very nice for things like ArmA, as soldier and when flying a helicopter. When you (slightly) turn your head your character looks in that direction. Benefit of increased situational awareness.

As to what it exactly does in this setup, uhh...not sure, the same way I think. I remember seeing a YouTube of someone fighting with either Track IR or Rift. The pilots view-direction changed when trying to track a close and maneuvering enemy.

Edit: There we go, found it: Click me! I am a video!

Edit2: Made some screenshots for the extra-lazy people.





« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 09:46:23 PM by calapine »

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Kail
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Reply #692 on: November 21, 2014, 10:27:23 PM

I don't know about this specific setup, but AFAIK you can use track IR to do some positional 3D / VR stuff.

Similar to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
apocrypha
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Reply #693 on: November 21, 2014, 11:40:20 PM

The TrackIR actually works really well in E:D. The key is getting the sensitivity set right. If it's too low then it's exactly as you describe Darniaq, you turn your head to move the pilot's viewpoint but you have to turn your head too far and your eyes strain to stay on the monitor. If the sensitivity is too high then you have to keep infuriatingly still and get neck ache.

Get it just right though and it feels very natural. You follow a target on the screen with both head and eyes and the viewpoint shifts with it. It's superb for keeping a target in your reticule whilst dogfighting and it's really good for looking at the left & right dashboard panels in your cockpit.

I would say to get the best experience though that you need a reasonably big monitor. My monitor is a 28" (why are we still using inches for monitor/TV size ffs) and I sit about 2' (60cm) away from it. I tried it on the living room TV/PC setup, a 40" screen at a distance of 7', and it wasn't nearly as good. I reckon using it with a huge display like the guy above would be awesome smiley

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satael
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Reply #694 on: November 21, 2014, 11:40:42 PM

No matter how crazy you are, there is always someone worse. € 4000 Elite setup:

The funny thing is some people have spent alot more than that on another space sim and all they've gotten for it is (or rather will be) virtual.  why so serious?
apocrypha
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Reply #695 on: November 22, 2014, 01:01:43 AM

Plus, it's not like Elite is the only game he can play with that setup. He's still crazy ofc (or rich).  awesome, for real

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Reply #696 on: November 22, 2014, 01:08:29 PM


arnulf2
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Reply #697 on: November 22, 2014, 01:48:20 PM

1.00 Gamma got released. Also backer rewards are available now.
Falconeer
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Reply #698 on: November 22, 2014, 02:02:59 PM

That live stream. Not a single person in the audience was less than 40 years old, which was definitely uncommon for a video game presentation. They also had one guy with a bug mask that was moving like a bug, one with a Napoleon hat, and one that was drinking whiskey from the bottle but was trying not to be caught on camera doing it.  awesome, for real

About the game, they clearly hinted at the Thargoids, they mentioned again a storyline involving the Emperor being sick, and the only real new thing they showcasted was an Imperial Capital ship (Majestic Class) randomly teleporting in and engaging three players in what looked like a boss battle. The fake live action and communication between the players was as pathetic as the Star Citizen's presentations. At least the battle seemed authentic and happening in the same client we have in our hands.

Venkman
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Reply #699 on: November 23, 2014, 09:17:43 AM

[spoiler]
Edit: There we go, found it: Click me! I am a video!

The TrackIR actually works really well in E:D. The key is getting the sensitivity set right.

Ah that makes sense now. From the video I could see if I turned just slightly, a whole set of UI elements can appear in what is otherwise either offscreen space, or would need to clutter my main UI.

Haven't really paid much attention to this tech because I haven't seen a game that really harnessed it. Kinda like why I still have a 16 year old MS Sidewinder kicking around for those occasions when I grab a recent version of Freespace 2.

But Elite is looking pretty awesome. I didn't really care about the totally-offline single player thing they just nixed anyway.

This would give me a reason for a track IR and a new joystick.

Just don't call it a "controller"  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
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