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Author Topic: Elite: Dangerous  (Read 662382 times)
Pennilenko
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Reply #595 on: October 30, 2014, 12:41:27 PM

I dare you to post that on the official forums. I'll share my popcorn with you as we watch them meltdown.

Edit: The official forums are an echo chamber of people pretending ED is perfect.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 12:46:55 PM by Pennilenko »

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
apocrypha
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Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!


Reply #596 on: October 31, 2014, 01:02:34 AM

Hah, yeah, I should post there more. It's felt pointless though because as you say, if you are critical there it's like you're speaking another language.

It's the crowdfunded closed beta curse - your beta testers are invested and inherently biased in favour of support, so the crucial voices of objective criticism get drowned.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #597 on: November 01, 2014, 01:45:14 PM

And you know what? Where the fuck are the external cameras. I don't want any stupid in game advantage, I just wanna take nice screenshots and look around as I can do in any fucking truck simulator AND any space game. I am tired of excuses.

5150
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Reply #598 on: November 03, 2014, 08:37:42 AM

Finally got to play this in anger over the weekend, random observations...

I get binned out with 'cannot connect' errors wayyyy to much for a game this close the launch (not sure if this is private group related as my group mate gets binned at the same time)

Reconnecting in the middle of the system when I had just docked and crashed opening the market is not cool.

Too many idiots blocking docking tunnels

Game is going to get boring real quick (this is partly my fault due to grinding safe trading runs until I can get a bigger ship, then rinse/repeat)

Ship upgrades need some explanation, what do they do and why is this one more expensive than that one but has the same name?

As an aside, can someone tell me about fuel scoops. I saw a screenshot on a previous page and asked if works like old elite (i.e. fly at sun and it works automatically)? I'm assuming you have to turn it on (like the cargo scoop) but do you have to drop out of supercruise (or fly so close you drop out automatically due to proximity?)
DraconianOne
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Reply #599 on: November 06, 2014, 04:07:04 AM

This doesn't change the fact that I have a hard time believing all that stuff will ever be realized in any way, and I don't trust Braben more than I trust Roberts. For example they said multiple times the game would have launched with 25 ships and considering it only has 11 with sixty days to go it's obvious that he didn't keep that promise. But based on what I've seen so far and the way these two guys advertise and push their work, I just prefer Braben's way of doing business and videogames.

I'm far less skeptical than you about this because I'm pretty sure they're keeping stuff back.  They teased the Orca in a newsletter #46 which they usually do when they they're going to release something shortly afterwards, and back in September they showed plans for a load of ships, some of which weren't in the game at the time but are now and also missing some that were in the game at the time.  I don't know about the full 25 - I'm not even sure there's a complete list of the full 25 - but I don't think there being at least 20 ships in by launch is outside the realm of possibility.

EDIT: A recap:



Top row, l-r
Python ?
Federal Dropship
Asp
Orca
Lakon 7

Middle row l-r
? ? ?
Eagle
? ? ?
Viper
Hauler
Cobra Mk III
Lakon 6
Dolphin

Bottom row
Sidewinder

Missing but in-game:
Anaconda
Lakon 9
Imperial Cutter

So 17 ships that I reckon Frontier have definitely built, 11 of which are in the game. I reckon they've got more that they've developed too but we just haven't seen yet.


Edited again to correct Hauler image
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 07:10:22 AM by DraconianOne »

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Yoru
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Reply #600 on: November 06, 2014, 11:21:39 AM

Not splitting the above as it's back on-topic. However, fair warning: I will continue to split/den any posts veering back towards the Elite v. Star Citizen pissing match.
Falconeer
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Reply #601 on: November 07, 2014, 06:10:22 AM

Sneek peek of the next ship to be added, most likely the Python.



Ironwood
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Reply #602 on: November 07, 2014, 06:16:49 AM

Not pointy enough

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
DraconianOne
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Reply #603 on: November 07, 2014, 07:05:21 AM

Not pointy enough

None of the major ship manufacturers are prepared to risk a major Health and Safety lawsuit after that unfortunate incident on Mongo.

Edit:

In the original concept art, there used to be a cockpit right on the nose

« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 07:15:03 AM by DraconianOne »

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Falconeer
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Reply #604 on: November 07, 2014, 07:16:28 AM

Right. Where's the people now that they chopped the cockpit off?

Falconeer
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Reply #605 on: November 07, 2014, 10:18:17 AM

Official Launch, December 16th.

http://instagram.com/p/vGxLl9KNBt/

(Instagram, really?  Ohhhhh, I see. )


EDIT: And here is a brand new video where they hint at all the things that will be developed after launch for future expansions.

- Walking in stations and hangars
- Walking inside ships
- Getting out of your ship in space
- Planetary landing
- Land vehicles and planets exploration

Will they ever make it? I doubt it, but this is the long term plan.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 10:35:48 AM by Falconeer »

apocrypha
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Reply #606 on: November 07, 2014, 12:46:15 PM

I'm sure it's no surprise that I think releasing on 16th December is a mistake. The game is so, so unfinished, and the scale of changes they'd need to make in the next 5 weeks to have a successful launch dwarfs the changes between betas 2 and 3.

There is STILL no grouping system, no way to play with friends reliably! They have sworn that will be in for release but to launch with such a key system untested is, simply, lunacy.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Falconeer
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Reply #607 on: November 07, 2014, 01:00:47 PM

Honestly, I'd bet grouping and playing with friends WILL be in the final release in a month. It's everything else that won't be and will make me wait a good 6 months before I'll start emotionally investing into a career.

Sir T
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Reply #608 on: November 07, 2014, 02:28:35 PM

December 16th confirmed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29939113

Talks about it and Star citizen, Star Citizen gets a 2016 release date.

Hic sunt dracones.
Yoru
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Reply #609 on: November 10, 2014, 04:08:50 AM

Will they ever make it? I doubt it, but this is the long term plan.

When are they planning to add fun?  why so serious?


No, seriously, I picked this back up during beta 3 and managed to fly for about three star systems before logging out to go read a book instead. I find the new interdiction mechanic extremely annoying (although I can see why some would like it), and the game is just as information-opaque as ever.  Flying around randomly, trying to find the ship and parts I need to try out the new systems isn't fun.

So far, I'm kinda chalking this one up as "a lot of potential wasted on a rushed release/poorly-staffed content team".  They've got the technical bits and placeholders in, but they don't seem to ever flesh any of their systems out.
Falconeer
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Reply #610 on: November 10, 2014, 04:28:20 AM

In a way, they might never add it because what they (Braben and his most loyal fans) consider fun is not necessarily what me or you consider fun. I am more into what they are doing than you (I like truck driving simulations), but as I wrote multiple times this one needs more to avoid being, yes, a wasted opportunity.

Yet, they might not change much because the design is supposed to be like this. Even with planetary landing and walking in stations, chances are it will always be an explorative and meditative game -as were the originals- more than what we are used to expect and desire these days, which is at least a bit of curated narrative and vague purpose.

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Reply #611 on: November 10, 2014, 06:36:54 AM

Honestly, what I think I really want out of this is certainly something different from what they're going to produce.  They have a very fun dogfighting system, but it feels like I need to grind for X hours doing trade milk-runs before I can do Y amount of dogfighting - and the magnitude of X in comparison to Y means that I'm going to fight conservatively, because getting blown up probably means doing another X hours to trading to get back to Space Lazorz.

I think a session-based World-of-Tanks style game could be very easily built off the back of the dogfighting simulation they've got, but that's certainly not in the cards.

--

I think my biggest problem is the enormous cognitive dissonance in the game's "open/responsive world" cladding and the 1980s super-gamey systems beneath the surface.  They've happily incorporated the "atmospheric tedium" you get from open worlds, but without any of the trappings that make it feels like a living place.

Aforementioned example: I want to buy a nicer ship, of a specific type. Somehow, we have a game world where merchants don't advertise; there's no messages from "Crazy Stan's Used Cobras" on my news ticker which might tip me off as to where to buy ships or modules, nor can I ask an NPC for help -- I just have to kinda derp around like a clueless, pre-Internet tourist who forgot to buy the Lonely Planet guide to New Dongistan 5.  I can kinda apply some knowledge of the design ("okay, ships and modules are usually sold in high-tech systems, let's see where those are... ah, 7 jumps away. Now for a 30 minute cruise and a 20% chance they'll actually sell the thing."), but that's about it.

Or I consult a wiki.

Shit, just add some kind of shitty menu where I can go talk to the Space Information Booth. "Hey I want to get into mining, where can I buy a mining laser?" "I hear they sell them at Alpha Dickslap C, pilot."
Falconeer
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Reply #612 on: November 10, 2014, 06:53:44 AM

Aforementioned example: I want to buy a nicer ship, of a specific type. Somehow, we have a game world where merchants don't advertise; there's no messages from "Crazy Stan's Used Cobras" on my news ticker which might tip me off as to where to buy ships or modules, nor can I ask an NPC for help -- I just have to kinda derp around like a clueless, pre-Internet tourist who forgot to buy the Lonely Planet guide to New Dongistan 5.  I can kinda apply some knowledge of the design ("okay, ships and modules are usually sold in high-tech systems, let's see where those are... ah, 7 jumps away. Now for a 30 minute cruise and a 20% chance they'll actually sell the thing."), but that's about it.

Or I consult a wiki.

Shit, just add some kind of shitty menu where I can go talk to the Space Information Booth. "Hey I want to get into mining, where can I buy a mining laser?" "I hear they sell them at Alpha Dickslap C, pilot."


Perfect example, I agree 100%. I wouldn't like the game if the Information Booth you mentioned gave me dead on answers every time, but I would definitely enjoy pointers, or random deals like Crazy Stan's stuff, and ultimately a limited (range?) player economy. I agree 100% that while the whole "loneliness of space, and its mystery" is awesome and part of the concept, it all lacks life *at the moment*. Hell, it doesn't even lack "soul", no, it really just lacks life. And even though I've read all the design documents multiple times, I am not sure in what way and when it'll be finally introduced.

Sir T
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Reply #613 on: November 10, 2014, 11:15:16 AM

it reminds me of one of the things X3-Terran Conflict lost over the previous X games was the "bulletin board" that you could look at in stations. It was the way you got missions but you got a lot of "fluff" info as well. They replaced that with simply communicating with the stations with TC, but they never replaced that "heavy pirate activity in system X" thing you got from the boards which did give you a sense of a living universe out there.

Hic sunt dracones.
Pennilenko
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Reply #614 on: November 10, 2014, 01:33:15 PM

I think I must be part of the group Braben is designing for. I am pretty satisfied with what E:D is so far. I occasionally fire it up, grab my hotas and play space truck driver, while exploring different systems and markets. I am not sure Frontier really even gives a crap trying to provide anything other than what they want to play themselves. I don't know how I feel about that.

There are really good ideas here about how to improve information systems for players though, and I would really like some of them to be incorporated. There definitely needs to be some sort of system for providing players with more information. However, if they release it in its current state, I am fine with that and will play it a ton, while i earn my space bucks driving space my space truck.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Falconeer
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Reply #615 on: November 12, 2014, 12:32:35 AM

A cool infographic showing what you can do and how in Elite: Dangerous so far.



Ironwood
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Reply #616 on: November 12, 2014, 03:20:29 AM

That's interesting, but I'm going to go ahead and agree that it's just not enough to my mind.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
DraconianOne
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Reply #617 on: November 14, 2014, 04:40:20 PM

Today's newsletter was a masterclass in marketing doublespeak.   Ohhhhh, I see.

- "We're going to have 30 ships!" (But won't have them all in at launch!)
- "We're making sure it's absolutely as polished as it can be!" (There aren't as many features as we hoped)
- "There'll be a rich and dynamic online universe!" (But that offline solo game we mentioned isn't going to happen.)
- "We'll be as communicative and transparent as we've always been!" (But we're still not going to be completely straight with you.)
- "Here are some extra bonuses for beta players, including a free ship!" (Please ignore the fact that we're not ready for launch! Also, the free ship won't be ready for a while.)

Still, more salient news is one more patch (3.9 - current version is 3.05 so definite last beta patch before "Gamma") is released next Thursday, two days before the preview release. There will be some new features added but tight lips on what they are (although bringing back a separate key for Supercruise is happening).

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Kail
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Reply #618 on: November 14, 2014, 05:58:30 PM

- "There'll be a rich and dynamic online universe!" (But that offline solo game we mentioned isn't going to happen.)

Argh, nooooo!  Can someone elaborate on this?  It won't be playable offline at all, or just no "story mode" or what?
Falconeer
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Reply #619 on: November 14, 2014, 06:05:45 PM

- "There'll be a rich and dynamic online universe!" (But that offline solo game we mentioned isn't going to happen.)

Argh, nooooo!  Can someone elaborate on this?  It won't be playable offline at all, or just no "story mode" or what?



This is what they have written in the newsletter, and it's obviously super vague. So, no one really knows what it all means and most importantly WHEN it'll happen.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Quote from: David Braben
Going forwards, being online lets us constantly both curate and evolve the galaxy, with stories unfolding according to the actions of commanders. Exploration is also a key factor, too, and it is important that what a single player explores matches what other players explore whether single or multiplayer – a complex, coherent world – something we have achieved. Galaxy, story, missions, have to match, and it does mean the single player has to connect to the server from time to time, but this has the added advantage that everyone can participate in the activities that can happen in the galaxy.  A fully offline experience would be unacceptably limited and static compared to the dynamic, ever unfolding experience we are delivering.

DraconianOne
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Reply #620 on: November 15, 2014, 12:44:13 AM

This is what they have written in the newsletter, and it's obviously super vague. So, no one really knows what it all means and most importantly WHEN it'll happen.  Ohhhhh, I see.

They elaborated more on the forum. Fair play to Michael Brookes, he's dealt with most of the fallout from this but the bottom line is no, there won't be an offline mode.

Quote from: Michael Brookes
The problem is that the galaxy mechanics all sit on the online servers. The data set and processes are huge and not something that would translate offline without considerable compromise to the vision. Trust me we didn't sit down and think what would annoy people the most! It's a choice we've had to make and so we've taken it.
(Source)

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Ironwood
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Reply #621 on: November 15, 2014, 06:28:46 AM

Fail.  Pass.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
apocrypha
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Reply #622 on: November 15, 2014, 07:12:07 AM

See this just strikes me as the worst of both worlds.

On the one hand you can't play offline, single-player because connected yadda yadda. And on the other hand when you play it online, multiplayer, there's no actual grouping tools so you're just playing it single-player but with griefers.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Pennilenko
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Reply #623 on: November 15, 2014, 07:13:17 AM

I'm not upset about no offline. However, I will be furious if they remove online solo mode.

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cironian
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Reply #624 on: November 15, 2014, 10:31:07 AM

I'm not upset about no offline. However, I will be furious if they remove online solo mode.

That would be a huge surprise, seeing how that and closed group mode are presented as major features and are working fine.
Ceryse
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Reply #625 on: November 16, 2014, 09:01:30 AM

Fail.  Pass.


This. I'd been looking forward to the game, but have zero interest in online play. Thankfully I haven't put any money/time into this game.
Falconeer
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Reply #626 on: November 16, 2014, 09:55:11 AM

As happy as I would be if they removed solo play (at least, they should remove the ability to jump from offline to online and vice versa), I doubt this is what is going to happen. Too many old Elite players are into this for the "classic" solo offline experience. It's too soon to pass, I am sure they'll explain later what they meant and that somehow the offline solo experience would be there. Hell, lots of people backed this on Kickstarter based on it, so I realy can't see how can they just remove it.

Malakili
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Reply #627 on: November 16, 2014, 10:00:03 AM

Fail.  Pass.


This. I'd been looking forward to the game, but have zero interest in online play. Thankfully I haven't put any money/time into this game.

Are people still cranky about this sort of thing? You can barely play the single player campaigns in most games without signing into something these days. 
Sir T
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Reply #628 on: November 16, 2014, 10:28:13 AM

Well I just had a month without decent internet and all I could play was offline stuff, so it is a thing.

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Malakili
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Reply #629 on: November 16, 2014, 10:41:27 AM

Well I just had a month without decent internet and all I could play was offline stuff, so it is a thing.

I mean, I know it's a thing.  But if you're someone who really wants to play solo Elite, barring this kind of frankly rare scenario these days, you can still do it.  I guess you could just be upset enough with them for the decision that you don't buy the thing in principle but "I have no interest in online play" seems odd when "online play" no longer means "multiplayer" and I get the feeling that people don't want to play multiplayer.
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