2013 NBA

[ghost]

Okay, so the NBA player's union is just now suspending Billy Hunter?   

[ghost]

I don't know if any of you guys are paying attention, but Lebron is having a fucking amazing streak here lately.  The guy is shooting almost 70% from the field in February. 

[Threash]

Yeah, he's been scary good lately.  If he keeps this up Miami repeating is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[Paelos]

Don't look past the Spurs this year.

[ghost]

The Spurs won't win the title.  They are typically badass during the season because they have a good system and a good coach, but they don't have the talent to hang with Miami or New York or even the Lakers once the playoffs hit.  I'm seriously bearish on their postseason prospects.

[01101010]

I hate the NBA and basketball in general, but this gif is too hilarious to pass up not posting it somewhere...

https://i.minus.com/ibfGACq50lur2k.gif

[HaemishM]

It's the face at the end that makes it. It just screams "DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMNNNNN!!!"

[Paelos]

Bye bye streak.

I don't hate the Heat, but I do hate what ESPN has become these last 5 years, and they were knob gobbling too much about this thing. Their announcers can barely mumble their approval with the amount of Heat cock in their faces.

[Threash]

I don't hate the Heat all that much either but after they were blatantly handed the Orlando game a few weeks back i wanted their streak to end before breaking the record.

[ghost]

Jay Z is selling his 1/15 % stake in the Nets.  Apparently his total investment was about $350,000.  Why was he ever even associated with the Nets?  I don't think that even qualifies you as "part owner".  That is minor shareholder status, at best.

[Paelos]

He was involved to say he owned part of the Nets, and because managment wanted a celeb in the stands to drive up ticket sales. The NBA thrives on celebrity on and off the court. That's what makes it a terrible product from a basketball standpoint.

[ghost]

That "celebrity" that you're talking about really rankles me.  The sad thing is that we're seeing some of the best basketball that we've ever seen in the NBA. 

[Paelos]

That "celebrity" that you're talking about really rankles me.  The sad thing is that we're seeing some of the best basketball that we've ever seen in the NBA. 

It's debatable. From a scoring/entertainment standpoint? Yes, it's the best in a long time. From a pure talent depth standpoint? It's the worst in a long time. The league is concentrated around stars, and the parity of the league is completely laughable.

[ghost]

There is better basketball being played, all around.  The teams actually play defense.  There are plays other than the pick and roll.  I feel that the entertainment value has lessened.  Showtime era was entertainment.  Jordan was entertainment.  There was no defense in either of those eras unless the Pistons or Jordan/Pippin were playing it.

[Nebu]

Stockton, Payton, DJ, Olajawan, Dumars, Mutombo... The Jordan era was OUTSTANDING for defense.  If you look at the top NBA defensive players of all time, many were from the Jordan era.

[ghost]

Stockton, Payton, DJ, Olajawan, Dumars, Mutombo... The Jordan era was OUTSTANDING for defense.  If you look at the top NBA defensive players of all time, many were from the Jordan era.

Yes, but it wasn't a great era for team defense.  Each of those guys was excellent by themselves, but only the Bulls and Detroit were teams that I would consider truly excellent defensive teams.  Hell, any guy from last year's Memphis team would be a top 10 defender in the Jordan era.

[Paelos]

Half the teams in the league give up 98+ a game on average this season.

That number a decade ago was half the teams giving up 94.5+ on average. If anything I can argue defense is unchanged/worse.

[Nebu]

Half the teams in the league give up 98+ a game on average this season.

That number a decade ago was half the teams giving up 94.5+ on average. If anything I can argue defense is unchanged/worse.

This.  Especially if you add in that zone defense is now legal. Ghost, remember that you had to play man-to-man only in the Jordan era or get called for a technical (after a warning).  There wasn't much team defense for that reason beyond playing simple help defense.

[Threash]

Stockton, Payton, DJ, Olajawan, Dumars, Mutombo... The Jordan era was OUTSTANDING for defense.  If you look at the top NBA defensive players of all time, many were from the Jordan era.

Yes, but it wasn't a great era for team defense.  Each of those guys was excellent by themselves, but only the Bulls and Detroit were teams that I would consider truly excellent defensive teams.  Hell, any guy from last year's Memphis team would be a top 10 defender in the Jordan era.

That's basically the result of rule changes that have made it damn near impossible to stop someone one on one. 

[Paelos]

The continuation rule in the NBA alone has led to more scoring.

[ghost]

PPG is a very misleading stat.

And the 80s were the pinnacle of the era when it was impossible to stop someone one-on-one.  Hell, a quarter of the teams in that era shot above 50% for the year.

[ghost]

You know, the most interesting thing about Jordan was that he was a defensive nightmare.  He really changed the focus of the superstar player back to being a defensive stopper.  The league has been pretty tight on defense since that time, particularly in his second run of championships. 

[Paelos]

In a vacuum, yes. In a combination analysis of league parity, not so much. When taking into account the changes in PPG along with the fact that only 8 teams have won a championship in the last 25 years?

The league has moved towards scoring and stars. Defense is important, for sure, but not a prerequisite for winning (see Dallas).

[ghost]

I think you're wrong about league parity.  We are exactly where we were in the Jordan era and in the Showtime era-  2 to 3 really good teams, the rest stink.  The mid-late '00s stunk, partially because there was parity.

But then again, you and I disagree on the point that parity means that play is good.  I much, much, much prefer to see standout excellent teams rather than a mishmash of crap

Edit-

The NBA has never been a league that could be considered to have parity.

[Paelos]

No, it's never had parity, and that's part of the issue holding it back as a product. The best parity product in the US is the NFL.

[ghost]

But, again, why give a shit about parity?  People want to see MJ and Pippin dominate, not Dirk Nowitzki eke out a lucky win in a down year.  And they don't want to see the Tampa Bay Buccaneers or the Carolina Panthers win, either. 

[Nebu]

Nobody watches the last place team.  They watch winners.  The more winners you have in your league (parity), the more people will fill the stands.

[ghost]

I'm not sure that the NFL is even comparable to the NBA or MLB if you're simply considering people in the stands.  MLB has 81 home games, the NBA has 41 home games and the NFL has 8.  The NFL has an almost exclusively weekend schedule whereas the others do not.

The other side of this is television deals.  Who is in the stands is becoming more and more irrelevant.  Hell, half of baseball stadiums are barely filled during the week, yet MLB still rakes it in hand over fist.  People want to watch winners on television, which means the big teams.  Nobody wants to watch Bucks-Bobcats, and I doubt many people will be tuning in to see Jacksonville play Detroit. 

[Ingmar]

Scoring is up because someone finally sat down and did the math and realized that hitting 34% of your 3 point shots is better than hitting 50% of your 2s. Want scoring to go down? Move the line back again and take away the corner 3.

[ghost]

The best teams are hitting up to 40% this year. 

[El Gallo]

No, it's never had parity, and that's part of the issue holding it back as a product. The best parity product in the US is the NFL.

Dunno about that.  5 of the 32 teams have won half the super bowls.  Almost half the league has never been in one.  The Steelers, Pats, Ravens, or Colts have been in every super bowl since 2000 except for one.  It certainly has the best revene-sharing, but it's not clear that it cashes out as parity, at least at the top.  

To get back on topic: it's too bad we won't get to see if Kobe could pull the team together for a playoff run.  Go Spurs. 

[Paelos]

Well in the NFL in the last 20 years, you've had 12 different teams win Super Bowls.

The NFL is a much different sport after the salary cap, and if we use 1993 going forward, that's well representative of the shift. These past two decades under the cap have been the most equal in terms of representation in the Super Bowl trophy list. I believe 22 different franchises have been in the big game in that time frame.

[Ingmar]

I'm pretty sure I ran through this recently and discovered that MLB actually has the best competitive balance now, but I was counting world series/finals/superbowl appearances, not just winners. It was a couple years ago though so maybe the repeat appearances of Cardinals/Giants/Rangers/Tigers in the last 2 let the NFL pass them.

The NBA is the worst and will always be the worst, because you just don't need very many dominant players to be on one team to become essentially unstoppable.

[ghost]

I hate competitive balance.  I could give a shit if the Memphis Grizzlies or the Jacksonville Jaguars or the Kansas City Royals ever win (or sniff) a title.  I want to see the big boys duke it out, the Steelers and Cowboys and 49ers and Yankees and Cardinals and Red Sox and Celtics and Lakers. 

[Paelos]

Balance is only good if it involves a traditional team versus an up and coming team in the championship. If it's two newbie teams, then it sucks. Fans don't like that.

When you really come down to it, fans want the two best teams in the game. That's why the Super Bowl this year wasn't the marquee matchup. Most fans wanted Denver and not Baltimore in the finals. SF or GB could have made it and people would have been happy, but they absolutely didn't want the Falcons, even though their record was better. The reason was that everyone knew the Falcons record, just like the Houston Texans, was mostly a smokescreen of shit teams.