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dd0029
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Reply #140 on: May 19, 2014, 03:11:18 PM

Is air just the way to go? You cut out the funneling from walls and circumvent two types of defense. The big negatives are no healers and most anti air is aoe so clumping can be a problem.
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Reply #141 on: May 19, 2014, 03:34:11 PM

What spells do you toss in the mix there, and what level are those? I tried mass balloons a couple of times and my experience wasn't great. My suspicion is that they only work above a certain critical mass.

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Reply #142 on: May 19, 2014, 03:48:04 PM

Air has a ceiling of effectiveness.  My air units are completely maxed on upgrades, but there are a lot of villages I just can't crack.  It's good for farming lower level villages, not for cracking top players (I don't even usually attack the top player in our wars because he'll often have a maxed Xbow or something else that I know is going to give my air guys a lot of trouble).

As far as it goes, though, balloons+minions is a great army IMO because the balloons can tank the wizard towers, which are the minions' main weakness (because it's AoE -- air defense isn't, fyi), and because of the aforementioned relatively low cost and training time (it takes about the same amount of time for 2 dark barracks to produce 80 minions as it does for 4 barracks to produce 16 balloons, all of which perfectly fills my 4 maxed camps).  It all synergizes very well.

For spells I keep a lightning on hand to deal with large clumps of archers (if present), and otherwise load up on heal.  Helps keep my balloons alive long enough to reach the wizard towers, and can keep my minions alive under fire from wizard towers or low level Xbows.  I used to throw a rage or two into the mix, but it takes longer to create (as does Freeze, which I still want to experiment with), whereas heal is only half an hour, so again, more attacks, more loot.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Strazos
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Reply #143 on: May 19, 2014, 05:33:33 PM

What sort of targets do you need to be hitting, regularly, to make all of that profitable?

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Reply #144 on: May 19, 2014, 05:37:18 PM

This is going to sound like a glib answer but I don't have a better one: targets that yield more loot than you spend on hitting them are profitable.  That's the entire definition of "profit", the difference between what you put in and what you get.

You know how much your troops and spells cost.  When you're picking a target you can see how much loot is available.  You can eyeball the village layout and guess how much of that loot you'll be able to get before your guys die.  (You also get a league-dependent loot bonus on a victory, so factor that in too.)  The math isn't complicated.  Most of it comes down to being able to do that eyeballing and anticipate how the attack is likely to play out, and you get that from experience.

The frequency with which you attack doesn't factor into the profit per attack.  But if your attacks are on average profitable, then more attacks mean more profit.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 05:39:13 PM by Samwise »

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Reply #145 on: May 19, 2014, 06:18:55 PM

I should note that I try to be conservative with my spell usage -- I'll drop a lightning if I pull a bunch of archers from the clan castle, because otherwise I'm going to blow through a third of my troops just dealing with that, but otherwise I save it.  Same for heals, I'll usually drop one heal on my balloons as they start taking damage so they can do more of it, but I try not to blow through a bunch of spells just because I have them.  Again, that's where experience comes in; you develop a sense for how much further into their base a heal (or rage) will let your guys push, and you can guess from that how much more loot you might get (if any) and make a quick decision accordingly.  I'll often drop a quick last minute heal if it makes the difference between zero stars and one star (loot bonus is 50k, easy choice there), or if I think it'll get my minions to last just long enough to take out a gold store with 100k in it.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Miguel
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Reply #146 on: May 20, 2014, 07:47:21 AM

This is going to sound like a glib answer but I don't have a better one: targets that yield more loot than you spend on hitting them are profitable.  That's the entire definition of "profit", the difference between what you put in and what you get.

I've moved to this model and have been having a lot of farming success.

140 level 4 goblins = 11.2K goop
4 level 4 wall breakers = 10K goop

So 21.2K invested is easy to net 4x profit by looking for bases with 100K each gold and goop.

I'm finding at 1100 trophies, lots of bases that are still in "square" configurations where there is one or two square enclosures for everything.  2 wall breakers for the first (outer) wall, and two for the second (inner) wall.  I can generally grab 80% of the resources with 140 goblins just running past all of the defenses.

No spells needed.

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Reply #147 on: May 20, 2014, 08:45:35 AM

Yup, that was exactly my strategy for a long time.  You eventually get to a point where you hit defenses that shred your goblins faster than they can run past, but before that starts happening goblins are fantastic.

You can also mix them in with other troops (e.g. barb/archer/giant), which sometimes works really well because the tougher troops will tank the defenses and the goblins will keep them from wasting their time on the resources.  But sometimes it doesn't work at all because your army spreads itself too thin.

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Reply #148 on: May 20, 2014, 02:49:00 PM

My last two upgrades to mortar level 5 and tesla tower level 2 are in progress.  As of then, I'll be maxed at TH7 for everything except walls.

Is it better to wait another month and gather the 32M+ gold needed to bring all of the wall segments to level 7 before I jump to TH8?  Or should I go ahead and ungrade to TH8 so I can start working on DE and getting the hero up and running?  The latter sounds like the better plan, especially since my research is maxed and I'd like to get researching on level 5 troop upgrades.

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Reply #149 on: May 20, 2014, 04:54:11 PM

Upgrade the TH for sure.  That way you can get your builders working on the cheap stuff now (like more mines/collectors if that TH level unlocks any) and still work on the walls as available gold permits, since wall upgrades don't tie up builders.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #150 on: May 21, 2014, 05:21:32 PM

Teslas max at tier 3 at TH7, FYI.

I need a few million more gold to finish my air defense, and I guess max my resource storage, but that's it.

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Reply #151 on: May 21, 2014, 05:34:09 PM

Remember that if you wait to upgrade your TH until everything else is blocked by it, you can't build anything else the entire time the TH is upgrading.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
TheWalrus
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Reply #152 on: May 21, 2014, 09:05:21 PM

Walls, bitches.

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K9
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Reply #153 on: May 22, 2014, 02:48:56 AM

I'd argue that you should jump ahead to TH8 before upgrading everything to the max so you can unlock the dark elixir drill sooner rather than later.

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grebo
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Reply #154 on: May 29, 2014, 11:49:06 AM

I'd argue that you should jump ahead to TH8 before upgrading everything to the max so you can unlock the dark elixir drill sooner rather than later.

I'd actually argue the opposite because farming is sooo much easier at TH7 until you get your guys leveled up again(which is damn expensive).

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Reply #155 on: June 05, 2014, 03:10:25 PM

At my level, air is appearing to be the best method. Wall breakers are so goddamn unreliable, you'd have to pack so many that it would cramp your army strength to be able to make a dent. I can't understand their AI enough to aim them effectively. The next closest wall after the one I've punched through doesn't seem to matter, they'll run far to the side to hit something else. Boggles the mind.

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Reply #156 on: June 05, 2014, 03:40:49 PM

Wall breakers used to be way stupider -- they would simply attack the nearest wall.  You could distract them by scattering empty wall segments around the perimeter of the map.  You kids don't know how good you have it.

Their logic now, as I understand it, is they path to nearby buildings and look for one where the path is blocked by a wall.  Then they target that wall.

My technique with them (and I'll be honest, I've used mostly air for months so I'm a little rusty on land attacks) is to drop them just as my other troops have cleared out the buildings in the current "cell" of the base.  That way the next batch of breakers will open up the next "cell" rather than opening up a new hole in the same cell (associated with a different building).

fake edit: Okay, I just watched your replay.  Your breakers did exactly what they were supposed to do, opening up the nearest closed cell.  What you could have done differently is drop fewer breakers per batch -- your giants were tanking, two breakers per batch would have been sufficient to crack those cells and then leave you reserves to start cracking the inner wall.

Another option is to look at the wall layout when deciding where to stage your assault from, thinking in terms of which cells you're going to be opening up with each wave of breakers, and which cell you want to get into.  If you'd gone in from the top corner, your first two waves of breakers would have cracked the two corners on that corner cell, and then they probably would have gone on to the corner on the inner wall, opening the whole thing up.

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Reply #157 on: June 06, 2014, 11:51:20 AM

Nah I get that they went where they were programmed to go. Still think it would be easier if they just "aimed" for the center of the map and went for closed spaces. Easier steering. But I'm no programmer, and it frustrates me that my pixels won't do what I want.
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Reply #158 on: July 07, 2014, 11:29:34 AM

How does everyone go about accruing larger amounts of resources?  Here's what's been happening to me over the past few weeks:

1) TH destroyed, 12 hour shield activated.
2) Six, level 11 collectors = 18,000 goop/gold per hour, over 12 hours equals 216K
3) Shield expires, and my base gets raided for 180K in resources
4) Net up about 30-40k every 12 hours, which is about 100K per 24 hour period

So after two weeks, I'm up to perhaps 1.5M each, and now I'm getting attacked even more regularly as the amounts in storage increase (mostly TH9 and TH10 people with highly upgraded troops).  Most of my builders are idle because I can't save up enough for TH8 upgrades due to the above.

If upgrading just my wizard towers to level 4 is going to take 2 months of accruing, then it seems rather pointless to keep going.

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Reply #159 on: July 07, 2014, 11:40:57 AM

1) Make the TH an easier target than your resources.  That will sharply decrease the average amount you lose in a raid.
2) Move up the food chain.  Resource collectors are grass, and people who subsist on them solely are sheep.  Be a wolf.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Aiwass
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Reply #160 on: July 07, 2014, 01:25:06 PM

I'd argue that you should jump ahead to TH8 before upgrading everything to the max so you can unlock the dark elixir drill sooner rather than later.

Your TH level also dictates the % of available loot compared to your opponent. I saw a massive decrease in loots after rushing two TH upgrades (7-9).

1) Make the TH an easier target than your resources.  That will sharply decrease the average amount you lose in a raid.
2) Move up the food chain.  Resource collectors are grass, and people who subsist on them solely are sheep.  Be a wolf.

Best to do in spurts so you are constantly "online" while building armies being invulnerable to attack and all.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 01:26:41 PM by Aiwass »
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Reply #161 on: July 07, 2014, 03:47:52 PM

Raising the TH level decreases the % but also raises the cap, so it's a two edged sword -- once you start holding a certain amount of loot the higher TH is causing you to lose more even though the % is lower.  OTOH if you don't raise your TH level you probably can't store that much loot in the first place, so whatever.

Staying online constantly works but is a pain in the ass and I don't recommend it.  I maintain that the way to do it is to just accept that you'll be attacked and try to make sure that each attack raises your shield while costing you as little as possible.  The better your defenses, the less often you get attacked but the more devastating each attack is likely to be, since the only people attacking you will be the ones with expensive armies, and they'll want to steamroll your entire base to make it worthwhile.  The "exposed TH" cheese means you get a lot of attacks from people with cheap armies who are looking for a quick easy win rather than total destruction.

I very seldom lose more than a couple thousand gold/goop per attack on me (not counting the expense of re-arming traps and such which is usually another 20k each).  Each successful attack I make gets me 50k gold/goop on loot bonus alone, so as long as I loot enough to cover the cost of the attack I'm coming out ahead, even if we assume I receive one attack for each one I make.  The most difficult thing is picking my attacks wisely so I don't waste resources (and a shield drop) on fruitless attacks -- experience has taught me that it's always better to keep looking for that one juicy easy target than to take a chance on a big score and wind up with nothing.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 04:52:20 PM by Samwise »

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Aiwass
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Reply #162 on: July 07, 2014, 09:27:13 PM

Im stuck at the upgrading troops to level 6 hump. I cannot for the life of me save the 6 + mil goop. I believe the game is available on the PC and its way easier to stay perm online. Well quasi perm I think after 7hrs of connection it will boot you.
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Reply #163 on: July 07, 2014, 10:27:17 PM

Miguel, don't forget about pitching trophies. I usually pack stuff on till my base gets whopped by someone way out of my league. This happens to me around 1200 trophies. Then I load all 4 barracks with goblins and sink that bitch down to around 400 trophies. Doesn't hurt to have some breakers in case you see a fatty you wanna loot from. Couple rules for safety. Dont attack a guy that can come back and wreck your day. Try and pay for troop and attack expenses on the way down. Dont feel bad for ditching trophies. It keeps the assholes away.

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Reply #164 on: July 08, 2014, 07:47:29 AM

Im stuck at the upgrading troops to level 6 hump. I cannot for the life of me save the 6 + mil goop. I believe the game is available on the PC and its way easier to stay perm online. Well quasi perm I think after 7hrs of connection it will boot you.

Divert all your gold to your walls, use an exposed TH layout.  That'll minimize the looting -- if you're fat with goop AND gold it's hard to pass up, but if your gold is low people who are focused on it will skip you.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #165 on: July 08, 2014, 09:59:20 AM

I've been staying down in the silver II/ III range and have an ultra-vulnerable Town Hall.  It's only got Level 2/3 walls around it.  Meanwhile my resources holders are stuck in the middle of my tightest defenses.  You have to steam roll my entire base to get at them.  In the last few weeks I've had that happen all of three times.  Most folks get a one-star or two star win by razing my TH and mines and then fuck off.

The only draw-back being I have to remember to check-in every 12 hours so they don't get all my shit from my mines and pumps.  When I go 2-3 days without checking it out

Check out lower-case "M" merusk.  Upper-case is my son.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 10:04:34 AM by Merusk »

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Aiwass
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Reply #166 on: July 08, 2014, 10:45:13 AM

Im stuck at the upgrading troops to level 6 hump. I cannot for the life of me save the 6 + mil goop. I believe the game is available on the PC and its way easier to stay perm online. Well quasi perm I think after 7hrs of connection it will boot you.

Divert all your gold to your walls, use an exposed TH layout.  That'll minimize the looting -- if you're fat with goop AND gold it's hard to pass up, but if your gold is low people who are focused on it will skip you.

I leave my TH exposed and booby trapped (often lower level attackers will receive no stars). I think I need to just drop rank after I get around 2-3mil. I hover in crystal 3 even when farming.
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Reply #167 on: July 08, 2014, 12:21:07 PM

Which one are you in Bat Country? Assuming you are of course...

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Samwise
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Reply #168 on: July 08, 2014, 01:16:09 PM

Think he(?)'s not since we don't have anyone in Crystal 3.  I checked because I wanted to see how much gold was in storage so that (in all likelihood) I could smugly say "you missed the part about diverting all your gold into walls while you hoard elixir".   awesome, for real

I've just recently finished all my DE lab upgrades and am on track to finish my current round of tower upgrades, after which point I'll be following said plan and maintaining a low gold balance so I can rack up the 6M+ elixir needed for each of my several remaining lab upgrades.  Would be there already if the new Tesla levels (a bargain at 5M each, have two of them in progress already) hadn't moved my goalposts, but I'm excited because the tougher Teslas will make my decoy TH that much more lethal.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Aiwass
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Reply #169 on: July 09, 2014, 01:14:51 AM

I just became aware of this thread I am in a random clan that are awful. Joined them because they have won a great many wars and win. half mil in resources every 48hrs isnt bad.
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Reply #170 on: July 09, 2014, 10:14:45 AM

Miguel, don't forget about pitching trophies. I usually pack stuff on till my base gets whopped by someone way out of my league. This happens to me around 1200 trophies. Then I load all 4 barracks with goblins and sink that bitch down to around 400 trophies. Doesn't hurt to have some breakers in case you see a fatty you wanna loot from. Couple rules for safety. Dont attack a guy that can come back and wreck your day. Try and pay for troop and attack expenses on the way down. Dont feel bad for ditching trophies. It keeps the assholes away.

What is the game mechanism behind this?  If the trophy count is low, do you no longer show up when high level attackers do "Find a Match"?

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Reply #171 on: July 09, 2014, 11:28:27 AM

What is the game mechanism behind this?  If the trophy count is low, do you no longer show up when high level attackers do "Find a Match"?

I'll quote myself:

If you find that you're frequently getting matched against people who are much stronger than you, you probably have too many trophies, since matching is done solely on the basis of trophy count.

The "level" you get from XP from doing random stuff doesn't affect anything as far as I know; trophy count is all that matters for determining who you get to attack and who gets to attack you.  More trophies = harder opponents and more loot.  Fewer trophies = easier opponents and less loot.  It's very easy to game your trophy count, so find the balance that works for you.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
K9
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Reply #172 on: July 10, 2014, 05:59:44 AM

I'm pretty sure trophy count also matters for whether you make the cutoff for clan wars - if you are in a clan of say 37 people, only the top 35 by trophies will be matched for wars. I got this recently since I was de-levelled for farming and wound up missing out on a war. My clan is a bit full of overlevelled trophy hunters though, I'm something like 40th by trophies, 5th by base value (which is how I assume the bases are ranked on the war screen?)

The new change to heroes makes them more of a pain to deal with during attacks. You can't really pull them anymore, and the AI is so bad on troops that they'll happily bimble around the enemy base whacking at walls before worrying about the giant Barbarian King chopping them to pieces... Thank fuck they haven't applied the same logic to clan castle troops.

With respect to farming, I leave my TH(8) in a corner of my base, completely undefended. Every 12 hours I get an attack that kills the TH and I loose 1000/1000 gold/elixir and get a 12 hour shield in return. Occasionally when I have stored up larger amounts of resources someone will take a poke and hit my base, but my layout has my gold and dark elixir stores at the heart, with walls and defenses all around. I rarely get hit for more than 50%, and largely I get to keep most of what I harvest from my extractors. Clan Wars can also be a decent source of income, depending on how terrible or not your clanmates are.

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Reply #173 on: July 15, 2014, 09:45:20 AM

Just FYI spending gems on boosting barracks/spell factory is a great way to pile up the gold quick.  You can train up a full army of crap troops or balloons/minions every 8 minutes and constantly attack never going offline while watching tv or knitting or something.

I did this last night and got 3 million golds in the 2 hours.  Think I'll employ this as regularly as my bushes allow.  Best use for gems I've seen yet.

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Reply #174 on: July 31, 2014, 03:02:02 PM

In case anyone didn't notice, there's a special 7 day boost for 1 gem available for all mines and extractors. They're doing it to celebrate the second anniversary. Seems like a no brainer to me.

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