Hunter S. Thompson. Dead at 67.

[Llava]

where the right tends to make things obvious on the cover, like Limbaugh's The Way Things Ought to Be or Savage's Liberalism is a Mental Disorder.

If you want to hear a counterpoint, highlight below.  If you don't, don't.

Or like those commercials the White House put out and had aired as news segments.

Or movies like "Bless The Child" or that more recent one about the horrors of cloning with Dustin Hoffman.  Just because they're crappy movies doesn't make them exempt.

And I think F9/11 was pretty dang up-front about its bias.  I can think of several instances where Moore himself said "No, it's not a fair movie."  Now you can certainly make a case that there is liberal propaganda out there that's hidden in bite-sized chunks inside nicer things, but I'm confident that I can counter with a conservative example for each one.

[Teleku]

I enjoyed the first 20 issues or so of Transmetropolitan that I read, and from what I can tell, Spider Jerusalem is based on Hunter S Thompson.  Heck, I , a Christian conservative, could agree with most of Spider's writings...  Hunter(in that article), not at all.  Occasionally Transmetro seemed to have political bents, but it was still enjoyable.  If Fear and Loathing is like that, fine.  The article Joe linked was not enjoyable.

Alkiera

Well, if it makes you feel any better, he also labeled Clinton as "one of the greatest facists of our time", and Tim Leary as one of the "worst goddamn human beings on the face of the earth". He was a lot harder on flower power, baby boomers, and 60's counterculturalists more than he was anything Nixonian or conservative (but not to say they didn't get their fair share of viciousness either).

So in other words, he was an angsty teen asshole who hated everybody?  I can't make any judgments, as I've never read his work (I'm interested in Fear and Loathing as well though), but I hope that article Joe linked doesn't represent how most his writing was.  I didn't like it not for the political views, but because it sounded like an insane old man screaming about commies under the bed.  It sounded like Boog and the guy who does that time cube website got together to write political commentary.  Reading that made me long for the well thought out and logical arguments of Pat Buchanan and Michael Moore.

[Llava]

I do have to toss in my two cents and say that the linked article wasn't impressive.  And I hate Bush too.

[Abagadro]

You don't go to HST for rational commentary. You go to the good Doctor for entertaining, psychotic ramblings that have an amazing amount of truth in them.

[Llava]

If that's what that was, I'd have liked it a lot more.  It was more of a rant with only a couple facts to back it up.  Most of it was just him going off on his opinion.  Though it's an opinion that I happen to agree with, I wish he'd done a bit more to support it.  He can flip out as much as he wants after he's proven his point.

[Hanzii]

I think this hits anyone who was a fan hard. He was one of those writers you couldn't help but love, and he lived the way he wrote. I'll be cracking open a bottle of tequila and Fear and Loathing tonight.

This was his last really poignant thing I read. It influenced my vote.

Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush? They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill "gooks". They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are racists and hate mongers among us-they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of these Nazis. And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them.

Heh. Perhaps he didn't loose all relevance years ago after all...
What a man.



One of the Danish journalists that spent some time with him a few years ago described how he had degenerated into a parody of Hunter S. Thompson who very much believed in his own hype and only had one subject left he really wanted to talk/write about: Hunter S. thompson.
He described a man trying very much to be like Uncle Duke from Doonesbury in honor of the visiting journo.
As he wrote: "Parodies of great men are fun in comic books, but not in real life".

[Margalis]

That is a danger when the news reporters become the news makers. (Not that HST was a typical news reporter) Journalism that starts by injecting the journalist into the story often ends up being about the journalist entirely. (If you want a good example, read a Salon movie or book review, which is 90% about the reviewer and 10% about the material)

I don't believe in "Gonzo Journalism" at all. It's not journalism. It's amusement. Then again, most journalism is not real journalism. So I can say that "The Daily Show" is not a serious journalistic show, yet is as serious as Hannity and Colmes, Crossfire, or any nightly news program.

Real journalism is basically dead in the US, killed by post-modernism. (Not just liberal post-modernism either) So barring that, something that makes you think and is entertaining is pretty good. Some would argue that real journalism never really existed, but I would argue back that people don't even try anymore.

[stray]

Post-modernism

Sorry, no offense to you, but I hate that word. The same goes for "modernism" or "pre-modernism".
 

Some would argue that real journalism never really existed, but I would argue back that people don't even try anymore.

"Real" journalism never existed because objectivity does not exist (though I do believe "objective truth" does, but that's irrelevant...for now. We're just talking about perspective).

How much exactly should people "try" anyways? No matter how much, it's ultimately pointless. The best you can ask for (at least in the case of journalism) is sincerity with what they do know. And if that's the case, Hunter didn't really do any different.

[Jayce]

most people here would want to read one by Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, or Michael Savage.

I'm fairly liberal, and I picked up Anne Coulter's book "Treason" or somesuch the other day.

Just sayin'.

[HaemishM]

You don't go to HST for rational commentary. You go to the good Doctor for entertaining, psychotic ramblings that have an amazing amount of truth in them.

Yes. He had a viewpoint, and he espoused it, but the motherfucker was never what you'd call rational. He wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. He ran for mayor of Aspen under the FREAK POWER party. This was not a man so much interested in politics as he was interested in exposing the lies we all tell ourselves about politics.

Read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. It is NOT a political work. He makes just as much fun of the hippies and peaceniks and his own part in that as he does of any conservatism. Read Las Vegas and nothing else and you will have enough of a window on the man to get it. Do not ever read Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, as it will remind you more of the linked article than you'd like.

His writings on politics aren't rational commentary, or exacting, factual journalism. They are skewed musings on politics through a mirror that reflects most darkly, and by the way, the mirror is covered in cocaine and LSD tabs.

[Righ]

So long and Mahalo, Hunter. 

[Margalis]

Sorry, no offense to you, but I hate that word. The same goes for "modernism" or "pre-modernism".

Hey, I hate it too. It's retarded. What's next, post-post-modernism?
 

Some would argue that real journalism never really existed, but I would argue back that people don't even try anymore.

"Real" journalism never existed because objectivity does not exist (though I do believe "objective truth" does, but that's irrelevant...for now. We're just talking about perspective).

How much exactly should people "try" anyways? No matter how much, it's ultimately pointless. The best you can ask for (at least in the case of journalism) is sincerity with what they do know. And if that's the case, Hunter didn't really do any different.

Perfect objectivity does not exist, but there are certainly different shades of gray. People SHOULD try. A real journalist attempts to report the facts as best they can, without color. It's the difference between suicide bombers and homocide bombers. The people saying homocide bombers aren't even trying to be accurate at all.

[Triforcer]

Sorry, no offense to you, but I hate that word. The same goes for "modernism" or "pre-modernism".

Hey, I hate it too. It's retarded. What's next, post-post-modernism?
 

Some would argue that real journalism never really existed, but I would argue back that people don't even try anymore.

"Real" journalism never existed because objectivity does not exist (though I do believe "objective truth" does, but that's irrelevant...for now. We're just talking about perspective).

How much exactly should people "try" anyways? No matter how much, it's ultimately pointless. The best you can ask for (at least in the case of journalism) is sincerity with what they do know. And if that's the case, Hunter didn't really do any different.

Perfect objectivity does not exist, but there are certainly different shades of gray. People SHOULD try. A real journalist attempts to report the facts as best they can, without color. It's the difference between suicide bombers and homocide bombers. The people saying homocide bombers aren't even trying to be accurate at all.

Homicide is defined as the murder of another person.  Homocide bombers murder people.  Get your head out of the ass of Arafat's corpse and don't say stupid shit.  As a sheerly objective measure (homicide is killing other people) homicide bomber is the most accurate term, you just claim it isn't accurate because of your sympathy for the plight of the people of the suicide bomber or whatever.

[Hanzii]

Homicide is defined as the murder of another person.  Homocide bombers murder people.  Get your head out of the ass of Arafat's corpse and don't say stupid shit.  As a sheerly objective measure (homicide is killing other people) homicide bomber is the most accurate term, you just claim it isn't accurate because of your sympathy for the plight of the people of the suicide bomber or whatever.

But that's not how language works, dickweed.
You don't get to change the words and terms that are well established, just because you deem them inaccurate. It has nothing to do with objectivity. We don't use womyn or humyn either.

There's a difference between attempting to be fair and to be immensely biased, but hiding it under slogans like 'fair and balanced' and a slew of "better" words.
There's no real lack of objectivity in reporting today, just to many stupid viewers. But there's a lack of honesty.
At least HST was honest about what he did.

[Triforcer]

Homicide is defined as the murder of another person.  Homocide bombers murder people.  Get your head out of the ass of Arafat's corpse and don't say stupid shit.  As a sheerly objective measure (homicide is killing other people) homicide bomber is the most accurate term, you just claim it isn't accurate because of your sympathy for the plight of the people of the suicide bomber or whatever.

But that's not how language works, dickweed.
You don't get to change the words and terms that are well established, just because you deem them inaccurate. It has nothing to do with objectivity. We don't use womyn or humyn either.

Bullshit.  YOU disagree with the term homicide bombers because it disagrees with YOUR politics.  When someone kills someone else, what is the word the media uses? Murder or homicide.  When someone shoots themself, what is the word used? Suicide.  I don't get called a suicider if I run into an office building, waste 10 people, then kill myself.  I'd be called a murderer.  Why do you get to pretend you harmed nobody but yourself if you worship Allah and strap bombs to your chest?  Woman and womyn is just semantics, but the term suicide bomber diminishes the value of human life.

Homicide bomber is more accurate because it strips away any notion that what the terrorist is doing is noble or justifiable.  He's a murderer, and the term puts him on a plane with other murderers.  Be a man and come out and say you think its justified because of the evil Israeli Jews or whatever. 

[stray]

But there's a lack of honesty.
At least HST was honest about what he did.

Exactly.

As far as "homicide" bombers go...Y'know, that is how language works. Words are meant to signify something, and in this case, "suicide" just doesn't cut it. Yeah, yeah, Fox News is trying to make a political statement by changing of words, but linguistically speaking, I think the word "homicide" is closer to the what the act entails.

Edit: But then again, "homicide bomber" is a bit redundant isn't it?

[Margalis]

Homicide is defined as the murder of another person.  Homocide bombers murder people.  Get your head out of the ass of Arafat's corpse and don't say stupid shit.  As a sheerly objective measure (homicide is killing other people) homicide bomber is the most accurate term, you just claim it isn't accurate because of your sympathy for the plight of the people of the suicide bomber or whatever.

Ok. I am goign to try to have a rational discussion about this, although it is HARD.

Tell me the difference between these 3 things:
Bombing
Suicide Bombing
Homicide Bombing

Now, tell me the difference between these 3 things:
Bombing
Homicide Bombing
Homicide Bombing

See the problem?

A guy who blows himself up is a "homicide bomber." So were the guys who blew up the Ok Federal Building. But there is a large distinction between those: In one the perpetrator knowingly committed suicide.

Suicide bomber conveys extra information. It has nothing to do with me "having my head up Arafat's ass." Seriously, drink the Kool-Aid much? And it has NOTHING to do with sympathy for suicide bombers.

The whole premise if fallacious. People feel sorry for suicide bombers because it conveys a certain conviction or dedication or sacrifice, and they shouldn't feel sorry (or be allowed to decide for themselves) so let's just call it something else.

How about, you tell me what happened, and I'll decide for myself to feel sorry for the person or not? I imagine suicide bombers run the gamut from guys who are just wholly indoctrinated to guys who are fucked in the head. I certainly don't have any great sympathy for them. But regardless, they DID commit suicide. If that makes people feel sympathetic, tough shit, because that's what actually happened.


Let me just quote what you said again, because it is just that fucking dense:

" Get your head out of the ass of Arafat's corpse and don't say stupid shit.  As a sheerly objective measure (homicide is killing other people) homicide bomber is the most accurate term, you just claim it isn't accurate because of your sympathy for the plight of the people of the suicide bomber or whatever."

So here you implied:
a: I have some agenda that is aligned with Arafat. (false)
b: I feel sorry for suicide bombers. (false)
c: Homicide bomber is the best term. (false)

a and b are not even debateable, that's just you going batshit crazy for no reason. As far a c) goes, suicide bomber conveys extra meaning.

Maybe the next time someone reports on a murder-suicide we should just call it a double-murder? You know, so us crazy bleeding heart liberals won't feel all sorry for the guy that offed his wife and then himself.

I don't think it's the job of the news to tell me who to feel sorry for. Thanks anyway.

[Samwise]

At the risk of sliding further into this retarded linguistic sidetrack:

Look.  By and large, when you "bomb" something, your intent is homicide.  A guy who plants a car bomb is a "homicide bomber".  A bomber plane is a "homicide bomber".  The Unabomber was a "homicide bomber".  And somebody who straps a bomb to his own chest is a "homicide bomber".  Okay?

That is what makes the term "homicide bomber" stupid.  It's redundant.  The point of adding a descriptor to a term is to make the term more specific.  And adding "homicide" to "bomber" does jack all to specify anything.

Now, look at my above four examples.  What single word clearly delineates the guy strapping a bomb to his own chest from the other three?  Could it be... SUICIDE?  Why yes.  So let's call that type of bomber a "suicide bombing".  We'll call the type that's planted in a car a "car bomb".  And let's call the Unabomber, oh, a "mail bomber".  Hey look!  We don't sound like retards!  Go us!


Now, going back to that example of "if I run into an office building, waste 10 people, then kill myself," you might be surprised to learn that there is an established term for that.  Murder is one part of the term.  Can you guess the other part?  Could it be "murder homicide"?  No, because that would be 100% redundant and whoever would be capable of coining such a mind-blowingly stupid term would surely have choked to death on his own ineptitude long before being able to set his creation to paper.  The term is "murder suicide".  Because it consists of one or more murders, and a suicide.  How about that.

[Margalis]

Bullshit.  YOU disagree with the term homicide bombers because it disagrees with YOUR politics.  When someone kills someone else, what is the word the media uses?

What is the term when someone kills someone else, then themself?

Murder-suicide.

I don't get called a suicider if I run into an office building, waste 10 people, then kill myself. 

That's where the bomber part comes in. 99% of bombings you hear about on TV kill people or are intended to kill people. And every single fucking one of those reports will give estimated casualty numbers. It's not like the entire news report is "some guy set off a bomb, on to the next story." It's more like "5 are reported dead after a suicide bombing."

Homicide bomber is more accurate because it strips away any notion that what the terrorist is doing is noble or justifiable. 

But here is the problem: HE DID COMMIT SUICIDE.

I don't think that suicide is noble or justifiable, do you? If so, then these people clearly ARE noble and justified, because they ARE killing themselves. You can't deny the reality.

a: People who commit suicide are noble.
b: Some guy killed a bunch of people and himself.
c: I guess he's noble...wait no..that's not right - let's just not say he killed himself! Yay!

You have a faulty premise. You assuming that by giving people accurate information (that somone committed suicide, which they clearly did) they are going to come to a conclusion you deem incorrect. (That we should feel sorry for that person)

Here is a novel concept: When I hear that someone blew up a busload of kids, and himself in the process, I really DON'T feel sorry for that person AT ALL.
---

Again, suicide bomber is a better term because it more conveys extra information. You would have a better argument if the term "homicide bombing" was used in any way OTHER than to refer to suicide bombing. I mean that's just absurd. The term "homicide bombing" was invented to mask the suicide part of suicide bombing.

Not everything that kills people is called homicide. Have you ever heard of homicide arson, or homicide hit-and-run. No. And before fox news invented it SPECIFICALLY TO DESCRIBE SUICIDE BOMBINGS you had never heard of a homicide bombing either. How about a homicide shooting, ever heard that one? I haven't.

This is the funny part: Previously you could describe a bombing as a bombing, or as a suicide bombing. Now if you are a fox drone, you can use bombing or homicide bombing, the LATTER of which replaces suicide bombing. That's ludicrous.

[stray]

Let's shut up and talk about Hunter again...This is stupid.

I cracked out my Criterion DVD of Fear & Loathing earlier to check out the extras (have had it for a year and didn't look at 'em yet). The documentary was kind of interesting throughout, but towards the end there, it started getting really morbid. He was saying things that make me think schild was probably right: That he had nothing else to say. Even in 1979 (when the film was made) he was already questioning himself and his writing. He was even going so far as to prepare for his funeral. 

I guess the 80's and 90's gave him plenty of material, and something to add fuel to the fire. Because if it didn't, it sounded like he was close to putting an end to it there.

Anyways, no point...Just trying to rerail (and btw, if you don't have the Criterion DVD and you're a fan of HST, you should get it. 90% of the time, special edition DVD's aren't worth a damn, but this one is packed full of stuff. It's well worth it).

[Margalis]

Edit: Samwise said most of what I was going to say.

I think the hugely vast majority of people that are concerned with language (as in are avid readers of non-junk, decent writers, linguists, etc) would see that homicide bombing is just a politically motivated ploy and linguistic dead weight.

But really, all that needs to be said can be gleaned by reading Triforcer's post. I object that "homicide bombing" loses information and I have my head up Arafat's ass and can barely live my life between the tears I constantly weep for those poor suicide bombers...the political motivations here are 100% transparent. Did it even occur to Triforcer that maybe I despised Arafat and have no sympathy for suicide bombers? Oh no, I've strayed slightly from the liberal gameplan, damn me!

I hate abuse of language. The term is politically motivated abuse, but it's also just a dumb fucking term. It can join terms like "verbal rape" in the dictionary of stupid fucking nonsense that some dipshit made up to hamfistedly make a point. It offends me that it is so transparently political, but also in that it's just ugly useless language.

We should take the Fox News memo writers and drop them off on an Island along with Noam Chomsky and that bitch that runs the Feminist Majority and nuke them. (That's a perfect example of language abuse, the "Feminist Majority." Just the fucking name is horrible abuse. That woman is probably the most disagreeable, dishonest bitch I've ever met by far.)

No wait, Triforcer, forgive me:

Homicide nuke them.

[Cheddar]

Back on topic please?  We have 2 threads in the Den already derailed.  I hope Mr. Thompson found what he was searching for, he will be missed.  Another fallen hero  :-(

[Abagadro]

Yes, I will miss his book-literature as well as his magazine-periodical pieces.  He was quite the human-man and enjoyed taking his drug-substances and shooting his gun-firearms.

[Roac]

Homicide is defined as the murder of another person.  Homocide bombers murder people.  Get your head out of the ass of Arafat's corpse and don't say stupid shit.  As a sheerly objective measure (homicide is killing other people) homicide bomber is the most accurate term, you just claim it isn't accurate because of your sympathy for the plight of the people of the suicide bomber or whatever.

What a tool.

Comedians have poked fun at language for years, some making careers out of it.  You slow down in a speed zone, and all that.  Language is full of oddities, some of them somewhat amusing.  In this case though, it's not cute, it's not clever, and a lot of the people using that phrase are trying to be socially manipulative.  People understand just fine what the original phrase means, and the only reason to change it is to try and earn attention for themselves and change focus.

[HaemishM]

We'll have no more twatflapping about homicide bombers and suicide bombers. Take that discussion here.

Talk about Hunter S. Thompson and his death. Be respectful of him and his family and his fans, of which I am obviously one.

[Hanzii]

We'll have no more twatflapping about homicide bombers and suicide bombers. Take that discussion here.

Talk about Hunter S. Thompson and his death. Be respectful of him and his family and his fans, of which I am obviously one.

I can't be respectful.
Going by the way Triforcer thinks language works, I can blame HST for murdering a really good writer and one of the last intelligent Americans. The bastard.

I do however respect you, so I'll shut up now and go to the library and pick up some of his newer stuff... I might be mistaken in what I wrote in my first post.

[schild]

Hey Rube is the only thing of his I haven't really read in depth. It's supposed to be great.

[Sky]

Somehow I've never read the guy's work. Just put a reserve in for Fear & Loathing.

[Hanzii]

I just did something I find immensely respectful.

I created a hunter named Sthompson... unfortunately he couldn't be an undead.



(and just to crosspollute all the HST threads: No Way, I haven't met/fought any from Bat Country - this is the euro servers)

[schild]

I almost resubbed to make Stockton, the hunter. But I think I'm just going to make him a superhero when new clothes are put in with Issue 4 in CoH. Gadgets etc, hopefully they'll have hawaiin shirts in and MAYBE if they have the balls, cigarettes.

[OcellotJenkins]

Update

Another Update

[Righ]

We used to fire some pretty big cannons in the Sealed Knot and ECWS, much bigger than the 12-pounder Napoleons. It would be lovely and more fitting to see HST take flight from one of Rodman's guns however.

[HaemishM]

I really hope they manage to pull off the cannon thing. I can think of no more fitting sendoff for the man.

[Shockeye]

Says he wanted her to come home

ASPEN, Colo. -- The widow of journalist Hunter S. Thompson said her husband killed himself while the two were talking on the phone.

"I was on the phone with him, he set the receiver down and he did it. I heard the clicking of the gun," Anita Thompson told the Aspen Daily News in Friday's editions.

She said her husband had asked her to come home from a health club so they could work on his weekly ESPN column -- but instead of saying goodbye, he set the telephone down and shot himself.

Thompson said she heard a loud, muffled noise, but didn't know what had happened. "I was waiting for him to get back on the phone," she said.

Hunter Thompson, famous for "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" and other works of New Journalism, shot himself in the head Sunday in the kitchen of his Aspen-area home. He was 67.

His son, daughter-in-law and 6-year-old grandson were in the house when the shooting occurred.

"The way he chose to do it was not a surprise, but the timing was a total, total surprise," Juan Thompson said Wednesday in an interview with The Associated Press.

Anita Thompson, 32, said her husband had discussed killing himself in recent months and had been issuing verbal and written directives about what he wanted done with his body, his unpublished works and his assets.

His suicidal talk put a strain on their relationship, she said.

"He wanted to leave on top of his game. I wish I could have been more supportive of his decision," she said. "It was a problem for us."

Juan Thompson said the "gonzo journalist" was not acting out of pain or desperation but probably decided it was time for him to go.

"One thing he said many times was that 'I'm a road man for the lords of karma.' It's cryptic, but there's an implication there that he may have decided that his work was done and that he didn't want to overstay his welcome; it was time to go," the 40-year-old son said by telephone from his father's home.

"He was not unhappy, he was not depressed, none of the things you would associate with someone who took his own life," he said.

Juan Thompson said his father had been in pain from a hip replacement, a broken leg and back surgery, but "I really don't believe it was motivated by pain."

Thompson was cremated Tuesday in Glenwood Springs. A private memorial service will be held March 5 in Aspen, with a public commemoration planned for spring or summer.

Thompson's family is looking into firing his ashes from a cannon, as he had wanted.

"It's a realistic possibility," the son said.

[Big Gulp]

Hey, I'm not going to look down on anyone for killing themself, but doing it while your son, his wife, and your grandkid are home, and while you're on the phone with your wife?

You sir, are a douchebag of the first order and I hope you rot in hell.