Blizzard AMA on Reddit

[Hutch]

Reddit Thread

Summarized and organized by topic on Wowhead

I kind of hate Reddit, so I'll read the Wowhead version.

[cmlancas]

Love this post.  I think CSRs are starting to find value in transparency.

[koro]

"Why doesn't Blizzard do more to promote player interaction?"

I think it's a fair criticism that too often your response to seeing another player (even of the same faction) is negative because it means more competition rather than positive because it means more cooperation.

We're concerned that just turning off mob tapping would lead to everyone just joining the raid in that zone to share experience. This was common back in the farming furbolg days, and we don't see any reason why players wouldn't still gravitate towards the most efficient way to level. However, there are some other ideas we can explore to encourage cooperation without mandating it.

This answer speaks volumes to me. Back in the "farming furbolg" days (AKA vanilla), leveling took far longer and the majority of the players never got to 60. Today leveling is considered utterly trivial, so who cares how someone manages to get to 85 or 90? It's not like soloing to the cap really teaches you much about your class anyway.

[cmlancas]

They said as much in a different part of the Q&A.  They cited the L90-only zone, pet battles, and increased raid participation as stuff to do at 90.

[Venkman]

I kind of hate Reddit, so I'll read the Wowhead version.

Not to derail, but has reddit always been like that? I only started paying attention when Anet was posting there. But damn if that interface isn't Netscape Mail Newsgroup UI circa 1997. Is there a better front end for it I could be using?

[Hutch]

I kind of hate Reddit, so I'll read the Wowhead version.

Not to derail, but has reddit always been like that? I only started paying attention when Anet was posting there. But damn if that interface isn't Netscape Mail Newsgroup UI circa 1997. Is there a better front end for it I could be using?

It looks like they attached a special css file to the Blizzard page.
Here's one that looks more typical.

I'm not a regular; I only follow links from more legible places. But if there was a better front end, would it still be Reddit?

[Amaron]

Kind of underwhelming frankly.  Everything since RIFT has added something new to the mix.  They don't seem to be interested in copying any of it though.  For the first time ever they're completely behind on a lot of QoL features.  Their core content has been outdone on many levels yet it's business as usual. They appear to be letting the game wind down on purpose almost.

[Evildrider]

Kind of underwhelming frankly.  Everything since RIFT has added something new to the mix.  They don't seem to be interested in copying any of it though.  For the first time ever they're completely behind on a lot of QoL features.  Their core content has been outdone on many levels yet it's business as usual. They appear to be letting the game wind down on purpose almost.

Titan will save them!

[Kageru]

Did they say anything interesting from a game design perspective? Even the summary exceeds my interest in Blizzard / WoW at the moment.

Sort of impressive really how completely cataclysm ejected me from the ride. I'm almost sort of thankful.

[Hawkbit]

I came back for the free 7 day thing, and it simply fails to grab me anymore.  I almost wonder if P1999 would grab me more than this, now.

[Ratman_tf]

"Why doesn't Blizzard do more to promote player interaction?"

I think it's a fair criticism that too often your response to seeing another player (even of the same faction) is negative because it means more competition rather than positive because it means more cooperation.

We're concerned that just turning off mob tapping would lead to everyone just joining the raid in that zone to share experience. This was common back in the farming furbolg days, and we don't see any reason why players wouldn't still gravitate towards the most efficient way to level. However, there are some other ideas we can explore to encourage cooperation without mandating it.

GOD FORBID THE PLAYERS GET TOGETHER TO PLAY AND HAVE FUN!!!

[Ironwood]

Um, that's a rather limited view of mob tapping.  It helps a LOT more than it ever hurts.

[Merusk]

That whole answer just doesn't parse for me.  Furbolg-raids were about sharing rep, not XP as Xp gains in raid groups suuuuuuuuuuck.  The Blizzdev answer makes no sense when he talks about leveling.

Nobody wants to return to overland-grind reps, either.

If player-interaction is down it's at the behest of players who wanted the opportunities for the "interactive" bits removed in the first place.

[Ironwood]

What interactive bits have been removed ?

[Paelos]

Um, that's a rather limited view of mob tapping.  It helps a LOT more than it ever hurts.

A good example of removing mob tapping is that quest in the Hyjal area where you fight elites with all your NPC buddies. Anybody in that area can help out because the mobs are untapped. It makes the thing like a really fun spontaneous raid cross-faction.

[Ironwood]

And they can't help ?

[Pennilenko]

No what he is saying is that when it makes sense blizzard can selectively remove mob taping. Like in that hyjal area.

[Ironwood]

Ah.  Righto.

For things of that nature though, it just makes sense.  It's almost like Public Quests, which I gather were implemented in other games and worked quite well.  The Hyjal shite I've never really got on with because frankly, it's a grind.

I'm still curious as to what interactive bits have been removed.

[cmlancas]

Ah.  Righto.

For things of that nature though, it just makes sense.  It's almost like Public Quests, which I gather were implemented in other games and worked quite well.  The Hyjal shite I've never really got on with because frankly, it's a grind.

I'm still curious as to what interactive bits have been removed.

World bosses were pointless at the end of 4.x.  I actually watched a DK solo the one in Deepholm.  I'm not sure he removals we're referencing are hard and fast interactivity cuts.  Instead, I think it's most of the population growing out of the content (rep grinds, world bosses, world pvp, rare spawn hunting)

[Merusk]

I'm still curious as to what interactive bits have been removed.

Complaints I've seen couched as WRT player interaction removal but disagree with.  Please note not all of these were in WOW but have been brought-up as being "problems" in WOW that limit / removed "player interactivity":

1) Removal of elite mobs that required grouping during leveling
2) Removal of the need for other people at all for leveling (EQ-grinding)
3) The LFG tool - Yes you interact but you don't have to KNOW people.
4) The LFR tool - See above but really masking the fact that butthurt assholes can't be the only conduit for raid access now so fewer people are putting up with their shitty feifdoms and running LFR on their own schedule instead.  (I love raiding but  I understand the attitude of those who have been burned by assholes.  I put more time in to finding a good guild than most do.)
5) Removal of grind-for-rep
6) Removal/ insignificance of world bosses
7) Gear resets that remove the required "player interaction" to advance.
8) "removal" of world PVP (ganking)
9) No new "significant" world PVP zones (Wintergrasp 2.0) where people 'must' go
10) Removal of the need for profession xyz to spam instead of dropping items on the AH (Most frequently enchanting)
11) Removal of rare crafting items that required 'player interaction' to acquire.  (only raids drop certain mats/ patterns so only raiders can build and sell them)

[Ingmar]

12) fuckstupid group-required attunement

[Amaron]

Titan will save them!

It seems like that's what they are actually going for.  Rather than update WoW they plan to let it slide and bring in Titan.

[Merusk]

Titan will save them!

It seems like that's what they are actually going for.  Rather than update WoW they plan to let it slide and bring in Titan.

Well, they could recode a shitton of the backed to create these unnamed QOL items, possibly irritating the remaining player base that is already bitching about 'catering to the casuals' and losing them.  or they could test things incrementally in wow and steal proven ideas for the new game that will have a fresh user base.  Makes sense to me.

[Amaron]

Well, they could recode a shitton of the backed to create these unnamed QOL items, possibly irritating the remaining player base that is already bitching about 'catering to the casuals' and losing them. 

I wouldn't call QoL stuff casual.  For instance overflow servers.  There's plenty of bullet point items that aren't really casual either.  Investigation missions, companions, jumping puzzles, dynamic events etc etc.  They're just flat out BEHIND now.  Plenty of it could be created with their current systems anyways.

[Fordel]

Game is just old and probably a fucking nightmare to bring up to date at this point.

[Goreschach]

We're talking about a code base that at this point is literally a decade old.

[Merusk]

Oh, are we talking about features from that game nobody's played and one month in was on life support?  Yeah, no wonder features aren't implemented from it.  

Seriously though
*  fuck jumping puzzles.
* Evidently overflow servers went in along with the cross-server zones, Blizzard just doesn't have the pop in a single zone to show them.  We'll see how that works out in the panda starting zones.   (I'm expecting bad things...)
* Investigation missions don't look like anything special, sorry.  They're "find the hidden widget" but relabeled.  Those have been in many games for a few years.  
* Dynamic events I would guess aren't possible with their code.  Phasing causes enough hiccups as it is, piling something like that on top might just break shit. The closest they come here is the mobs marked with a "!" so multiple people can attack them and still get credit for completion.
* Companions - Um.. why?  I thought they would be a great idea pre-TOR.. but:
                  1) Devs balance classes around using them, turning everyone in to a pet class.  I  see that the folks who originally complained this is exactly what would happen were right.  Which sucks, because once you make them integral to class balance like that it really hacks some players off.  Not everyone wants to be a pet class.
                  2) The devs aren't willing to trivialize their 'group only' content enough to make them worthwhile in dungeons.  (Plus this would be another "player interaction" thing.. )  
                  3) It doesn't make sense for WOW in particular.  Another property, perhaps, but this far in you're just shoving things in to do it.  Yes, shockingly, LOLLORE or LOLSETTING can be a real reason NOT to do things sometimes.

[Amaron]

The reality is millions of people have played these games and now consider some of this stuff a new base line.  Nerd raging that they like such things isn't going to change that.   They still won't go back to WoW.

[cmlancas]

The reality is millions of people have played these games and now consider some of this stuff a new base line.  Nerd raging that they like such things isn't going to change that.   They still won't go back to WoW.

While I admit some of those things sound cool, my initial draw in WoW was a cool world to explore that had interesting class gameplay.  I wanted to share the dungeon/raid experience with other people -- completing that first class set so my Priest was all blue (and subsequently trying to add white pieces to it).

This might be egocentric, but isn't the core issue "is it fun?" rather than "why not implement X mechanic?"  One seems to apply across the board and the other seems like it hits a niche.  I'm not saying these are mutually exclusive, though (but more on that in a bit).

All of what I've seen so far (in MoP beta videos and forum posts) points to devs focusing on an interesting world people want to share with their friends.  While people share that they liked TBC as the golden age of WoW, I think it really points to having something to do.  I think devs have acknowledged that:  if you weren't raiding in TBC, you might've been levelling an alt, which didn't take five days to max.  The challenge now is providing you something to do while simultaneously inviting you to level 90 in two weeks.

Maybe that is through some of the mechanics you mention.  For me, it's about the lustre of purples being purple again.  I miss the days when epics were epic, not just something you purchased from a vendor.  Truly building a character and whatnot.

[Merusk]

The reality is millions of people have played these games and now consider some of this stuff a new base line.  Nerd raging that they like such things isn't going to change that.   They still won't go back to WoW.

The only thing I remotely nerd raged about were jumping puzzles.  Because seriously, fuck those.  I stopped playing platformers years ago for a reason and I'll avoid MMOs that implement them.

Sorry I insulted your personal Jesus of a game but the fact is it wasn't popular enough.   People still pine for mechanics innovations from other games that nobody's done since, too.  Talk about AC, DAoC, SWG, Conan, AO, CoX and the litany of other MMOs from the past and you can find something that was changed but never carried forward to other games. 

Since there's plenty of fodder across the past that hasn't been picked-up how can it be that because mechanics from a game that was released 2 months ago and failed haven't been picked-up suddenly others are dated?  The question is what features has the public - not an insignificant forum of gaming pundits - wanted implemented and what can be implemented reasonably in to older games.

It'd be a wild stretch to say EVE sucks because it doesn't give you a companion ship, investigation missions or put jumping puzzles on the stations. (It sucks for other reasons!  )

[Amaron]

Sorry I insulted your personal Jesus of a game but the fact is it wasn't popular enough. 

Most of the examples I gave come from GW2.  I only gave 1 example from TSW and I don't even like that game.  I've no personal investment in any of the points actually.  Overall these 4 games (RIFT,SWTOR,TSW,GW2) have simply made WoW boring to even contemplate.  Even an expansion targeted specifically at someone like me isn't appealing.  Looking around at the other WoW die-hards (which included me at one point) this isn't a unique outlook.

[Ingmar]

The reality is millions of people have played these games and now consider some of this stuff a new base line.  Nerd raging that they like such things isn't going to change that.   They still won't go back to WoW.

Not all of those things are thing that should go in every game, though. Investigation missions would just be weird and out of place in WoW as one example, you need a game that's built to accomodate them, which is necessarily going to be different from WoW in terms of its rewards structure etc.

[Kageru]

I think the reason I'm done with WoW is it feels like I've beaten the game. In EQ it was kill all the gods. In WoW it was kill Arthas. After that you can tell they've run out of villains and themes anyone cares about. So you can have pointless expansions with villains you need to google for and still don't remember them, or an expansion based on a joke character.

Either way, sooner WoW dies sooner we can see titan and if they learnt something or fell prey to second system effect.

[Simond]

In WoW it was kill Arthas.

Funny how a character created for the final game in a trilogy became the be-all and end-all in so many players' eyes.

[Venkman]

Features in other games not getting picked up by WoW doesn't mean those features deserve the dustbin of history. It just means they weren't important enough to prioritize, or exceed a worthwhile level of effort.

WoW doesn't need jump puzzles, investigation, story, or anything else that is along the non-combat vector. But SWTOR did to differentiate. TSW did to help justify their modern setting. GW2 did because they quickly nailed the hella-fun combat system but wanted to introduce a setting nobody but GW1 diehards were familiar with.

WoW is successful enough to not need to reinvent itself. It's got a long way to go before it becomes #2 to anything. And that really only happens if the genre sheds millions of players. Unless we think GW2 is hitting 8mm units sold...

And I'll say again, I'll believe Titan is coming when they saying something official.