So what's the big deal?

[WindupAtheist]

Once upon a time, The Sims Online and Star Wars Galaxies were looked upon as The Future.  Even if you expected them to suck, you figured they'd make assloads of money.  Well the former tanked miserably and the latter is chugging along in mediocrity, while World of Warcraft conquers the universe.  My question is, why?  The gameplay doesn't seem vastly different than that of the competition, and Warcraft can't be THAT much a better gaming brand for name recognition than Star Wars or Sims.  So why is this game kicking so much financial ass?

[schild]

I'm going to step in here quick and say:

A number of you are going to view the above question as flamebait.

It's not.

I'd like to see some answers as well.

[stray]

Familiarity + New and Shiny + Fantasy-based (for whatever reasons, more MMO gamers prefer that to anything else).

edit: Oh, and I'm sure word of mouth (highest rated MMO ever) and mass migration of guilds helped. Also, marketing and details about WoW started the second it went beta.

[Margalis]

A lot of reasons:

#1: A huge following of Blizzard fans from Starcraft and Diablo - fans from OUTSIDE the MMORPG universe. SOE has nowhere near that sort of reputation, nor does EA or anyone else. Blizzard is a rare video game company with a large number of they can do no wrong fans.

#2: Lack of negative word of mouth. I say this instead of positive word of mouth because it's more accurate.

#3: The same, only better. Not a lot new, but a lot streamlined, simplified, and presented better. It's refinement.


That said, I think the game is boring and I would never consider playing it. It's not vastly different, but it's improved in many small ways.

And I wouldn't compare to SWG or the Sims Online. Sims online was just a bad idea, taking a God game and removing the God from it. SWG a game and a license joined like Siamese Twins.

[Velorath]

Blizzard stuck to a simple formula and polished it slightly.  Then they made it more casual and solo-friendly which appeals to a bigger group of people than the slow grind.  It pretty much comes down to the fact that they had name recognition like Sims and SWG, and they managed to not fuck the game up so badly that it managed to even turn the fanbois away like those two games did.

[Fabricated]

There is one reason and one reason only that WoW is doing so well.

1. Blizzard made it.

[Triforcer]

SWG, the game that was supposed to break 1mil subscribers, failed because it wasn't about Star Wars.  I still can't get over how WoW has the EXACT PVP SYSTEM that I advocated daily on the SWG boards (I was one of the first 100 people in beta 1, that's how deranged I was).  This is all I ever wanted- you join up Alliance or Empire, there are a few safe zones for the newblers, you have it out everywhere else, and eventually there are battlegrounds with PvP rewards.  Raph said daily that a PvP MMORPG like that wouldn't work- and now we have WoW, where a MAJORITY of people are on PvP servers.  SWG was an inherently PvP setting, but they blew it.  Shit, I'd love to run the new (or the old) PvP ruleset by one of my law professors.  The only thing that stops me is they'd probably use it as an exam question and I'd fail.

A few other reasons:

1) WoW has lovingly handcrafted zones and SWG had miles and miles of featureless terrain that looked exactly the same- beyond a certain minimum and beyond a certain maximum, nobody cares if you can make an MMO the size of real-life earth.

2)  Crafting was too complex.  Nobody beyond a handful of people enjoy it when its set up like that.  Give me a pick and plop some ore down around the world.  Put a forge in town and let people make stuff.  The real-world economy is not fun.  WoW style economy is. 

3)  Raph is a great guy who cares alot about making great games.  He's a better person then I am, passionate, and brilliant.  But as someone who watched him on those boards for two years, it was obvious that SWG was his "amends" game to PvE posters who had a friend who once heard about someone's miner being killed in 1997 UO and were thus frightened and needed someone to hold them.  Raph made the game to keep the bad Dread Lord from touching the children in a private place.  You could practically see b0n3d00d and plated3wd in the background of every post he made.  That worry simply made him go to far in the opposite direction.           

 

[Llava]

Let's not forget:

WoW is friendly to people who are just getting into the whole ideas of MMOGs.  It's good for catasses too, but it doesn't slap you in the face with "Welcome to the world, start grinding if you ever wanna do anything cool!"

SWG on the other hand... you can't even be a Jedi without tons and tons of commitment.  Who the fuck makes a Star Wars game where you can't be a Jedi?  Hell, I'm going to make a fantasy game where you can't use weapons or magic- you are an armor polisher.

So that basically means people can reommend it to their friends without having a crisis of conscience.

[Jayce]

they managed to not fuck the game up so badly that it managed to even turn the fanbois away like those two games did.

I think this is the key reason, and you could replace "those two games" with "every game made to date".  It's not innovative or revolutionary or robot jesus, but it isn't fundamentally flawed in some way.  It's casual friendly but also has high-end content for the catasses.  When I log out, nine times out of ten I feel like I have accomplished something.

I can see myself playing this game for years, hopping on my high level characters to PvP then leveling some alt at a glacial pace but still feeling like I was getting something done.

"Not innovative but very solid" beats "innovative (or not) with serious design flaws" any day.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm going to step in here quick and say:

A number of you are going to view the above question as flamebait.

Why would they?  Because of the "not vastly different" comment?  Would anyone here really argue that ANY of the big-gun fantasy MMOGs are "vastly" different from one another?

[SirBruce]

Blizzard had the three main elements which I believe are essential to garner lots of subs in today's MMOG market:

1. A strong retail presence backed with advertising. This means boxes on the shelves, coverage in the magazines, and good word-of-mouth.

2. A fairly high level of graphical quality. This doesn't mean you need to have all the latest and greatest graphical features, nor an insane amount of detail, but the graphics have to look good and have a particular visual style. Note it's possible to create such graphics with low-detail bitmaps, but it's extremely difficult; most artists are not that good.  In WoW's case, its visual *style* is far more important than its actual level of detail.

3. Content, content, content. Your players will eat through content at rates far beyond what you predict. You have to be prepared for that, and maintain a team that's constantly adding new stuff ot the game. Alternatively, you need systems that are complex and varied enough to create their own content -- elements like PvP, random missions/dungeons, and/or complex strategic systems.

In addition, WoW had another very strong element:

4. (Optional) A known brand that has a built-in audience and pre-existing IP. UO and FFXI, for example, built upon previously popular single-player brands. Star Wars and games like The Matrix Online use pre-existing IP known to millions of customers. Even a game like DAoC builds, to a small extent, on the "public domain" IP of Arthurian times. Games like Roma Victor and Imperator Online will be able to use that "generic Roman IP" that audiences are quite familiar with through television and movies.  In WoW's case, this is the bulti-in "Blizzard/Warcraft" fanbase.

From a gameplay design standpoint, none of WoW's systems are particularly innovative.  They took the best parts of all the others games and welded them together; Raph called it a "summation game".  The one particular WoW design element that I think was great was the quest-directed gameplay.  Other games had quests, of course, but for many they seemed to be equal to or less than the addition of new areas, new items, new dungeons, new monsters, etc.  AC2 was the first game I know that had the same kind of heavily quest-directed gameplay, and you've since seen it in CoH, EQ2, and MxO.  WoW really turned it up a notch, though, by making sure there were very few gaps in accessible content at the lower levels (so no tedious levelling to get to the next series of "interesting" quests), and they put the friendly icons and arrows and such on NPCs so you knew where to go and who to talk to.

Bruce

[Calantus]

I'd add a big post but it's already been said. Blizzard didn't do anything particularly interested, they just made sure that they did it well. Another good point is "casual friendly". As far as MMOGs go it's pretty accessable and that means more subs.

[Abel]

The gameplay doesn't seem vastly different than that of the competition, and Warcraft can't be THAT much a better gaming brand for name recognition than Star Wars or Sims.  So why is this game kicking so much financial ass?

The people here make the common mistake thinking that originality and brand name recognition is what sells a product.

It doesn't it.

1) Products don't necessarely sell because they have a big brand slapped on it. Brands can attract attention. Brands can help to differentiate. Brands don't actually sell the product though.
Everyone was "interested" in TSO. How many of you actually bought it ? Not many I think, even many Sims fans apparently weren't attracted to the prospect of playing online with others. Brand name helps jack shit if the product itself isn't attractive. There are many brand extensions that completely tanked to prove this point (in fact, TSO is already a prime example).

2) Why would a game sell more if it's original and different from others ?
 Making games is not some kind of art, it's an entertainment business. Your product, above all, is supposed to be fun and to entertain. 
And having enough funding and knowing how to actually market a game helps a lot too of course.

Pretty much all previous MMORPGs scared customers away by trying things like :
- Adding tons of new ideas but never manage to get them to work properly
- Being overly technical ambitious and end in a bugfest
- Being too time-demanding (this is a major one)
- Thinking that all kinds of restrictions and harsh penalties is smart design
- Having a learning curve that is too steep
- Require you to upgrade your PC
- Release with too little content
- Fail to implement PvP properly
etc

Just like with RTS and hack&slash RPGs, Blizzard figured out what kind of MMORPG would appeal to the biggest number of people and created it.

BINGO !

[Toast]

1. It's not because "Blizzard Made It"
2. The game is legitimately casual friendly
3. World is well-crafted, pretty, and fun
4. Appealing crafting system
5. The parts are not incredibly original, but the combined output is a huge leap ahead for the genre.

[Paelos]

They made an acceptable treadmill. Long enough for the catasses with uber content dungeons, but short enough for the casuals with the rest system that helps them out.

[schild]

5. The parts are not incredibly original, but the combined output is a huge leap ahead for the genre.

This is something I can't help but argue. Blizzard isn't about huge leaps. They aren't easy about baby steps. What they've done is effectively grinded to the core of what makes the EQ era MMORPGS fun. They've put those pieces together and we now have World of Warcraft. Unfortunately, it proves to investors that there's still money left in EQ-Style games and the VCs are going to look at it and say, wow, MUST INVEST IN MMORPGS.

Essentially, through no fault of their own and by creating the most successful purely North American MMORPG - they've stagnated the genre by about 3-5 years. They've done this with RTS games as well. If you don't believe me - just take a look at the landscape. Though, it could be argued, the Red Alert series had a hand in that as well.

[Dren]

5. The parts are not incredibly original, but the combined output is a huge leap ahead for the genre.

This is something I can't help but argue. Blizzard isn't about huge leaps. They aren't easy about baby steps. What they've done is effectively grinded to the core of what makes the EQ era MMORPGS fun. They've put those pieces together and we now have World of Warcraft. Unfortunately, it proves to investors that there's still money left in EQ-Style games and the VCs are going to look at it and say, wow, MUST INVEST IN MMORPGS.

Essentially, through no fault of their own and by creating the most successful purely North American MMORPG - they've stagnated the genre by about 3-5 years. They've done this with RTS games as well. If you don't believe me - just take a look at the landscape. Though, it could be argued, the Red Alert series had a hand in that as well.

However, it can also be argued that big companies coming out with big releases of MMOG's that try to take on too much change and fail miserably do evern MORE harm to the industry.

My feeling is that smaller houses should work on completely different elements to the industry and put out small MMOG's to check them out.  With big ideas for new game elements, keep the launch small.  For "more of the same but done a bit better," go for the big launch to keep the industry alive and attractive for more investors.

In my dreamworld, the bigger companies find the smaller ones doing interesting productive things in their small oferrings and buy them up.  Then, they add those small elements a bit at a time until they have a large launch that has just a bit different over all others.  I don't think we can or should expect a huge game like WoW to come out like it did and offer us something completely different.

Is there any other product offered that has done this? (Outside of gaming?)  Hell it can be argued that MMOG's themselves are just now coming into their own market-wise.  UO may have been a huge leap in content for the genre, but with respect to other gaming platforms, it was nothing.

[chinslim]

Essentially, through no fault of their own and by creating the most successful purely North American MMORPG - they've stagnated the genre by about 3-5 years.

There's no stagnation or setback in building something right and putting a polish and a loving touch on it. WoW is great because of the detail to everything.  They paid for their artists and content writers, and didn't waste too much time on the latest DirectX 10 future-forward graphicial 'innovations' or play designer god and create some kind of self-sufficent virtual world.

[Rasix]

God to love a question driven by people just looking to jump over anything you say.  Well, here goes, in no particular order:

1.  It's immersive and pretty.  The world just draws you in with it's unique and distinctive landscapes.   The graphics, while not mindblowing on the number of polys, are the most effective graphics that we've seen to date in any MMORPG.   They make the game just that much better. 

They also don't bring your systems to it's knees.  THIS IS IMPORTANT.  Not many people want to spend 300 bucks upgrading their video card to play a game that they're going to spend $15 x 12 month if they play it for a year.  You're not going to get people shying away or quitting this game over technical issues unless they're really behind the curve.   

The game isn't overly fucking dark at night also.  This is a big boost for those of us that LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE FUCK WE'RE DOING.

2.  The game displays a great sense of humor and uses cultural references greatly to it's benefit.  From the Indiana Jones sequences in the Ulda'man dungeon to the offhand remarks that can found all over the place, it makes you chuckle, wince, or hit the screenshot button to preserve the moment for later.  This is the first MMORPG that has made me laugh serveral times (and not just because of the stupdity of the players.)  I really like games that can hit my funny bone or can be quirky enough to keep me wanting more (see EarthBound).

3.   The class design, IMO, is inspired.  Best classes in any MMORPG I've ever played.  There's very little hit A and make a sandwich (sorry Paladins).    Every class plays different there's opportunity to have a class play any number of ways due to talents. 

4.  A short leveling curve.  Not tiny, but level 60 in under 12 days played isn't bad for this genre.  Plus, it ramps up as you play, but there's no real gigantic leap up in time needed to level.  Plus there's the quests to keep you going.  Lots and lots of quests.  Unlike some other games, there's no real huge gaps in this and you've always got something on your plate to keep you going.  The game is also digestable in hour chunks.  This is big for us casual types (Ok, maybe I'm not so casual as "time starved").

5.  The game is extremely solo friendly while at the sametime providing enough rewards for grouping.  This isn't apparent early on but there's a benefit to playing by yourself on your own time but also having a group of friends that you can count on.

6.  This is a Blizzard product.  They realized this game would hit it big with people that have been on the outside of the genre looking in.  There's a great deal of people for which this is likely their first MMORPG and Blizzard put together a great MMOPRG for beginners.  The game early on, for about the first 20 levels or so, plays as a giant tutorial.    By the time you've hit 20 you've touched upon all of the skills that you'll need throughout the duration of your stay.  It's important to not throw the noobs into the fire or leave them with a half empty skill set like some other games did.

7.  The game isn't overly punishing.  The death penalty is light enough to the point where you don't want to die, but not heavy enough to the point where you're chucking your monitor through the wall. Failed quests can be redone.  An accidentally sold item to a vendor can be bought back.  Being forgiving is something that's needed in a genre where punishment is sometimes billed as challenge.

8.  Three types of servers.  PVP, RP, and regular.  This gets all of the ganking goons off the regular and RP servers, puts the name nazi and RP asswipes together, and keeps the generally retarded non-homicidal lackwit on his own server. 

9.  The game is not a chore.  I don't log in and wonder why I do.  I don't sit in a dungeon entrance for an hour at a time for a group so I can kill the same frog that I killed for 3 hours yesterday for 4 hours today.  I don't need to be up for 16 hours to be on for the window when the mob I need is going to be up so I can compete with 4 other assholes to kill it.   I don't have to babysit my camels or log on every 4 hours to check my vines.   

10. Due to the above, it's hard not to recommend this game to someone.  My gripes are few and won't be hit or even matter to most people.  I'm sure even if it's not getting all positive reviews, the positivie is heavily outweighing the negative.

11.  If it's not revolutionary, than by most of the above you can see why the appeal is wide.  It has refined the suck out of most of what Everquest and it's followers brought to the table.  It took a lot of my major gripes and eliminated them or wrapped them in a tasty coating. 

If it set back the industry 3 years, so be it.  None of those other cockholsters were making anything I want to play or failing so miserably in their execution that they cause me actual pain.  Fuck'em.  Make a good game that does what it does well.  Quit trying to innovate when you can't fucking code a chat interface that doesn't break.  Quit trying to be new and immersive with a combat system that makes Baby Jesus flip off old ladies.   Quit trying to be the next best thing when you're not good enough to be last year's old news.  Quit mangling cherished game licenses into somethat that I can't recommend to their biggest fanboi.  Aim for what you can hit and THEN HIT IT.   Most of all, stop boring me.  If I want to be bored, I'll just load up Everquest and solo with an untwinked warrior.  That part of the market is cornered.   Make a fun game above all else, sprinkle in some "world", and polish the hell out of what you've got.  That's a winner. 

[Xilren's Twin]

This is something I can't help but argue. Blizzard isn't about huge leaps. They aren't easy about baby steps. What they've done is effectively grinded to the core of what makes the EQ era MMORPGS fun. They've put those pieces together and we now have World of Warcraft. Unfortunately, it proves to investors that there's still money left in EQ-Style games and the VCs are going to look at it and say, wow, MUST INVEST IN MMORPGS.

Essentially, through no fault of their own and by creating the most successful purely North American MMORPG - they've stagnated the genre by about 3-5 years.

Considering how well the "innovative" mmropgs of late have fared, setting a minimum standard to shoot for may not be a bad thing.  It helps clarify the market to both investors AND developers.  I.e. if you want to have any hope of being successful in this marketplace, there are now some hurdles you had better well clear before you can even begin to talk about what makes your particular title "unique" or "innovative".

Things like a techinically stable platform with a clean GUI, decent graphics, solid gameplay in both inidivual elments and taken as a whole are must haves, as is KNOWING your goddamn MARKET DEMOGRAPHIC!; who are your intended customers and what do THEY want, not what do you want to give them...  Games like horizons, and wish failed to me those minimums.  Eq2 seems to be failing some of them slightly and other hugely (that is Smed's idea of a non hardcore game?). Lineage 2, for all the bashing it gets in NA, seems to have hit it's intended market pretty well.  CoH has passed the bar and they too seem to know their customers.

Others have mentioned the individual design elements that help make it an attractive overall whole: casual friendly but stuff for catasses too, solid performance, useful crafting, understandable setting, etc, plus a metric ton of content.  Somewhere I heard that they have over 2000 quests in there and I tend to believe it, plus the huge amount of STUFF makes it a packrats wet dream (there is something inherently appealing of getting random cool stuff dropping from almost any mob: AC did this well too).

So, what's the big deal?  Wrong question, b/c it's not earthshattering or revolutionary at all.  If original EQ never appealed to you, no reason for you to like WoW.  (that being said, I doubt I'll play this 1.5 years; of course, I doubt i'll play ANY new mmorpg that long again and I suspect im far from alone..being first to market with no real competitors is a huge factor in Eq's success).

My question is more like "So what took so fucking long to do EQ right?"

This is market refinement in action at it's finest.  Some people push the market boundries, others strive to understand the market well enough to become the market leader.  So there you have it, WoW is the Walmart of mmorpgs.  Now go back to your UO boutique you snooty elitist bastard. :)

Xilren

[Shockeye]

If it set back the industry 3 years, so be it.  None of those other cockholsters were making anything I want to play or failing so miserably in their execution that they cause me actual pain.  Fuck'em.  Make a good game that does what it does well.  Quit trying to innovate when you can't fucking code a chat interface that doesn't break.  Quit trying to be new and immersive with a combat system that makes Baby Jesus flip off old ladies.   Quit trying to be the next best thing when you're not good enough to be last year's old news.  Quit mangling cherished game licenses into somethat that I can't recommend to their biggest fanboi.  Aim for what you can hit and THEN HIT IT.   Most of all, stop boring me.  If I want to be bored, I'll just load up Everquest and solo with an untwinked warrior.  That part of the market is cornered.   Make a fun game above all else, sprinkle in some "world", and polish the hell out of what you've got.  That's a winner. 

You do realize you are a rabid faboi, right?

Anyway....

I get the feeling that you don't want people to even try making new innovative games. That makes the Shockeye sad.

[Rasix]

I would if they'd stop making stuff that was so goddamn shitty.   Innovation without being good is just stapling wings on a dog. 

[Shockeye]

I would if they'd stop making stuff that was so goddamn shitty.   Innovation without being good is just stapling wings on a dog. 

You do realize you wouldn't have your precious WoW if other games hadn't innovated certain things and failed.

WoW was built upon the successes and failures of previous games in the same genre. Asking game makers to stop trying to innovate UNLESS THEY GET IT RIGHT 100% is silly.

[Riggswolfe]

Once upon a time, The Sims Online and Star Wars Galaxies were looked upon as The Future.  Even if you expected them to suck, you figured they'd make assloads of money.  Well the former tanked miserably and the latter is chugging along in mediocrity, while World of Warcraft conquers the universe.  My question is, why?  The gameplay doesn't seem vastly different than that of the competition, and Warcraft can't be THAT much a better gaming brand for name recognition than Star Wars or Sims.  So why is this game kicking so much financial ass?

Well, the Sims Online was a failure from the start. The game when I played it was boring, laggy, and bugged. (I played in beta.) I figured the last two could be fixed but the first, well, as we say around here you can't patch in fun.

SWG was innovative in some ways. The three big problems it had was:

1) It wasn't Star Wars. Not by a long shot. Wookiees do not = Star Wars.
2) It was boring on the combat side
3) It had the worst grind I have ever experienced. It was even worse than high level AC2.

I still daydream about what SWG might become over time if the right changes are made...

As for why WoW conquers all my theory is it has several things needed:

1) It's fun. Say anything else about it, the game is fun to alot of people. It's the first game I've ever made multiple characters in because "Hey, Class Y looks fun too" instead of "ok, Class Y is the uber flavor of the week and I'm tired of feeling like a gimp"

2) It's accessible. Easy to get into and all that. It gradually trains you to play at the higher levels. As well you don't have to have a monster computer to play it.

3) It's solo and casual friendly. This is something alot of gamers want these days. Hardcore catassers bitch and whine but it is still true.

4) The grind is largely invisible. Sure I sometimes watch the XP bar but not because I'm bored but because I'm looking forward to my next food pellet.

5) The graphics are artistic and fun to look at. Very colorful and each "zone" has its own feel. Music and ambient sounds contribute as well.

6) Loot is fun, yet crafting is still useful. At high levels the loot outweighs the crafting but still for the most part it still works out well.

7) You always have something to do. When I log on each day I'm not going "I need to find something to do" I'm going "out of my 20 or so options which one do I want to work towards"

8) Content. It has a hell of a lot of content. I have a level 60 human paladin and I still have not seen 3 or 4 instances or done any true raids. As well I have seen very few night elf or dwarf quests. Also I dropped and/or skipped lots of quests. There are entire zones I never set foot into except to pass through. There is some whining at the high end but for now I think it's unfounded. There are 5 instances for 60's level characters I can think of off the top of my head. High level crafting to do. Faction to build. Elite pets to get. Rare drops to farm for. Raid material (Onyxia being the most famous), PvP (which isn't that big a draw to me, but is still something for people to do), and weapon and armor sets to attempt to collect/complete.

There is more but I've said enough for now. Did WoW innovate? No. Does it work and is it fun? Yes. That's good enough for me for now.

[Rasix]

I would if they'd stop making stuff that was so goddamn shitty.   Innovation without being good is just stapling wings on a dog. 

You do realize you wouldn't have your precious WoW if other games hadn't innovated certain things and failed.

WoW was built upon the successes and failures of previous games in the same genre. Asking game makers to stop trying to innovate UNLESS THEY GET IT RIGHT 100% is silly.

They're free to try.  But I'm not going to play or pay for something that sucks because it's trying something different.  When your new and innovative experiment sucks, I'm not going to laud you for it.  And you're making too much of an absolute out of my statements.    I'm not being that black and white; I'm just done paying for crap.  There's little room left in this genre for experiments gone wrong.  The new potato chip on the market that's 100% fat free better not give me furious diarrhea.

[Shockeye]

I would if they'd stop making stuff that was so goddamn shitty.   Innovation without being good is just stapling wings on a dog. 

You do realize you wouldn't have your precious WoW if other games hadn't innovated certain things and failed.

WoW was built upon the successes and failures of previous games in the same genre. Asking game makers to stop trying to innovate UNLESS THEY GET IT RIGHT 100% is silly.

They're free to try.  But I'm not going to play or pay for something that sucks because it's trying something different.  When your new and innovative experiment sucks, I'm not going to laud you for it.

The whole MMOG industry is still flawed in making people pay to beta even if they call it "released". Blizzard still has a long way to go to make WoW stable, in my opinion. While the game itself may be a fine piece of cake, the plate is it being served on is being held together with elmer's glue.

[AcidCat]

Make a good game that does what it does well.  Quit trying to innovate when you can't fucking code a chat interface that doesn't break.  Quit trying to be new and immersive with a combat system that makes Baby Jesus flip off old ladies.   Quit trying to be the next best thing when you're not good enough to be last year's old news.  Quit mangling cherished game licenses into somethat that I can't recommend to their biggest fanboi.  Aim for what you can hit and THEN HIT IT.   Most of all, stop boring me.  If I want to be bored, I'll just load up Everquest and solo with an untwinked warrior.  That part of the market is cornered.   Make a fun game above all else, sprinkle in some "world", and polish the hell out of what you've got.  That's a winner. 

Yep, I think you've got it covered here.

[ahoythematey]

I would if they'd stop making stuff that was so goddamn shitty.   Innovation without being good is just stapling wings on a dog. 

You do realize you wouldn't have your precious WoW if other games hadn't innovated certain things and failed.

WoW was built upon the successes and failures of previous games in the same genre. Asking game makers to stop trying to innovate UNLESS THEY GET IT RIGHT 100% is silly.

It's not that we are asking the innovators to get things 100% right, but just 30% right would be nice, and even then that seems like an impossible task.  If it wasn't for the "innovators" typically being the most inept motherfuckers on the planet when it comes to MMO's, I am guessing I and a good deal of others here would have had a 30%-right game, or greater even, that gave us reason enough to stay instead of finding fun in the shiny of WoW.  But bullshit was released, we were burned too hard.  It's sort of like the old adage about technology, where you can choose between old and reliable or new and unproven, but usually not both.  Right now I'm sticking with the former...

[WayAbvPar]

Rasix covered most of it, but just to reiterate-
1) It is extremely casual friendly
2) There is ALWAYS something to do, both quest-wise and character improvement-wise. I constantly have a problem of having too many quests to do, primarlily because I tend to hop around from area to area like a Ritalin-starved Magellan.
3) The loot system- always a chance of something interesting. Almost everything dropped is used by some class or profession.

2 complaints-
1) The avatars are goofy looking. The world is beautiful, but I hate the look of all my characters (trolls being by far the worst).
2) The goddamned random drop quests. I had to kill over 100 yetis this weekend to get Hercular's Rod, while my buddy killed 2. 2!!!!!!!! That kind of shit makes me crazy. Feel free to randomize it, but give me a max #.

I can't believe I am still playing as often as I do. I am enjoying the hell out of it, which is a MAJOR shock to me.

[Morfiend]

I think part of it is just pure luck. The fact that the quests keep the game fun, and interesting. And IMO the game is just "fun". Thats the only way I can really describe it. I log in, and have fun. Even at higher levels, its doesnt feel like a second job like some of these (A lot) feel like.

It was wierd, I am level 59 right now, with about 3 bars to go to 60. And from lvl 55+ I kept waiting for some horrible long grind to kick in. Where I was just like "just a bit more, I can do it". But no, I have been playing the way I always play, questing and having fun, and all of a sudden I am about to hit 60, and I am supprised at how I didnt feel a big grind.

[Viin]

WoW was built upon the successes and failures of previous games in the same genre. Asking game makers to stop trying to innovate UNLESS THEY GET IT RIGHT 100% is silly.

As a consumer, I sure as hell can ask they at they get it 100% (or even 50%) right. Why would I pay for someone else's garbage?

You also forget, there's been YEARS (20?) of design going into MMO games. If they can't get even a portion of it right, now, then they don't deserve our money or our time. Nothing is ground breaking yet - we're just waiting for someone to do it right. And WoW delivers that to a lot of people.

[WindupAtheist]

This is market refinement in action at it's finest.  Some people push the market boundries, others strive to understand the market well enough to become the market leader.  So there you have it, WoW is the Walmart of mmorpgs.  Now go back to your UO boutique you snooty elitist bastard. :)

I almost want to come back to WoW.  Almost.  Spending money on subscriptions to two games seems so wasteful to me though...  I should quit smoking and reward myself with a WoW subscription, I'd be saving money and my lungs...

[HaemishM]

It's a number of things.

1) Content rich at release - Lots of shit to do, in lots of ways, NONE of which is incredibly complex yet it's still fun, even crafting.
2) Fast-paced, strategic combat, very similar to the feeling you get from CoH combat.
3) Soloability - this is a lot more important than people want to realize, but the ability to log on, do shit without needing others is huge for the casual, time-starved gamer. The fact that you are eased into needing other people, as opposed to reaching a certain point and being troutslapped with the forced grouping keeps casuals in it longer.
4) Strong brand with loyal fanbois, both at the corporate level and the game's setting level.
5) Low system requirements, assuring that even UO players can likely play the game at a decent resolution and have a playable frame rate.
6) Bug-low release - no, it isn't bug-free and yes there have been some bad ones, like the server crashing ones. But it was in no way "wipe the file allocation tables of your hard drive" type bad like AO or SB.EXE SB.EXE SB.EXE like Shadowbane.

EDIT: Because I thought of them later.

7) PVP that wasn't an outright gankfest from the get go, but more like the semi-consensual PVP of DAoC.
8) Little to no harshly punitive death penalty

[Toast]

WoW has parallels to achievements in the design industry. Designers take mundane, everyday objects and work to improve them.

They work on things like usability, user experience, look, functionality. Their job is not to throw away the product and re-invent the wheel.  Every once in a while, a great design magically comes together and makes a splash (see I-Pod).

Great design is a force of improvement and refinement, not stagnation. Invention and innovation are important, but so is design.

[Margalis]

Design is nice. A single original idea is nice too though.

I can't get into WoW at all because it doesn't have a single thing I haven't seen in almost exactly the same form someplace else. I'm the type of person that, when I've seen all a game has to offer, I tend to stop playing unless it is REALLY damn good.

I saw all WoW had to offer before it was even in Beta. It doesn't have a single novel element to it. I can just imagine myself playing it rather than actually playing it and save myself some time and money.