[TF2] Man(n) vs Machine?

[koro]

Wow, okay. I wasn't intending what I said to be as harsh as you've apparently taken it to be. I don't plan on playing Mann Up because it's untenable to do so over the long run. I was just wishing we had some Valve dedicated servers that weren't Mann Up only.

[Samwise]

I think given that they've gone with the whole f2p model, it's reasonable for them to make you either find someone willing to run a server for fun or pay them to host a server for you.  Heck, even if it was a game you had to pay for, I don't think you can expect perpetual server hosting without a subscription model to pay for it.

That said, $1 per mission is clearly more than covering the hosting costs, but it's f2p, they gotta keep the lights on somehow.

[Samwise]

Fuck this mode is hard.  At least it is when half your teammates don't know what the fuck they're doing.  You definitely need the "right" classes to stand a chance in hell.  Seems like it's all about engies with wranglers, pyros with airblasts, and medics to stop everyone from dying.

(edit) HAHAHA -- striker, controller/defender, leader.  Same as it ever was.

[K9]

This mode is fun, had a bast tearing shit up as a heavy.

[Simond]

One of the good things about MvM is some of the, um, not-optimal weapons in the normal game suddenly become actually quite good for robot-killing.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUluEqXLYr4

[K9]

I haven't yet tested the griefing potential of the medic's "share my flask buff with my heal target" using the "return to spawn" flask, I imagine it's only a matter of time though. Being able to use it to keep a heavy full of ammo using the ammo flask is pretty swanky though.

One of the good things about MvM is some of the, um, not-optimal weapons in the normal game suddenly become actually quite good for robot-killing.

I actually really like this.

[Ingmar]

Group queueing for this is buggy as fuck.

[Shannow]

Demoman does nicely for killing the veritable buttload of scouts that come at you.

[Samwise]

Had a round last night where I played as Pyro the whole time and mostly kicked ass, but then the last wave came out and it was mostly heavies (with knockback) and snipers.  Couldn't get close enough to anything to kill or airblast it.  And of course when I switched classes, I didn't have any upgrades, so was at a huge disadvantage then.

Be nice if there was some kind of respec option, maybe being able to just pay a few hundred bucks to refund all your previously spent money and allow you to pour it into another class's weapons.

[Ingmar]

Yeah something like that would be nice. Also... I think it might be tuned a hair too hard for random users. Multiple difficulty levels a la ME3 multiplayer would be nice.

[Sjofn]

I had fun as a medic, but we never managed to beat the last wave of the map we were on. 

[Wasted]

Group queueing for this is buggy as fuck.

Yep, I've tried twice to play this with a couple of friends and haven't been able to get a game yet.  The second time when we did get into a game it booted us all straight away with some error message about the server version being out of date.

[K9]

It would be nice if they allowed some flexibility in refunds, and possibly upped the cash drop rates a little.

[cironian]

Just beat the first advanced mission for Decoy ("Disk Deletion"). Took a lot of tries, strategy adjustment, and luck, and even then we were hanging on by the skin of our teeth at the end. The final wave had the second tank spawn at the same time as packs of giant bots each with 3 uber medics in tow.

There really needs to be some counter to those uber medics, as it is a small mistake by a single team member can put you in a situation where you can only watch an invulnerable bot march the bomb all the way to the goal.

[Ingmar]

Yeah they're weird - I blew some clear across the map from the heavy they were ubering and neither they nor the heavy lost the uber. It was WAAAAAY outside the range where a normal player medic would lose the medigun connection with his target.

[Ingmar]

I think it might be tuned a hair too hard for random users. Multiple difficulty levels a la ME3 multiplayer would be nice.

No, it just turned out we were on SUPER HARD LEVEL ones. The normal ones are really easy.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, pro tip: Do not pick "any map" unless you are prepared to potentially be on wtfhard maps. :P

[fuser]

Been playing quite a bit and honestly the community is going to kill the game.

It's crazy on hard modes because if heaven forbid you fail once you might be a scape goat. Been booted without warning a few times, been yelled at because i'm a class not using a weapon for a map, then blamed for the failure because I re-equipped.

It's worse then WoW heroic LFD.

[Samwise]

I still have yet to complete the first mission.  Last few times I tried, each attempt fell apart because one person would leave, nobody new would join, and since the difficulty doesn't scale based on the number of people you have, it quickly becomes impossible and pretty soon everyone else leaves in frustration.

At least I'm not using up my one ticket.   

[Dren]

Played this with my son over the weekend.  Had issues with it:
1.  Cash drops at the feet of the kills.  Melee classes would just scoop everything up.  Is that split evenly with team?  Seemed like I was getting very little.
2.  No time given to even get new equipment unless you die.  By that point the bomb is at the door.  Be nice if there was some time between waves.  Or, is there a way to buy stuff while in the field?

Otherwise, it was pretty fun.  I think we got on a hard map because...it was hard.  We would get to the medic-tank wave and fail every time (4-5 times.)  We didn't have anyone blowing them apart.  I could have switched, but I'd lose my upgrades, etc... We'll do some more games this week sometime.  Great game for mindless coop chaotic fun. 

[koro]

1. The whole team gets the full amount of cash from a pickup, regardless of who gets it. Scouts even have an expanded pickup radius for that purpose.

2. You're not meant to really buy more gear in the middle of a round or between waves, aside from maybe a couple extra canteens if you're quick about it; it's why your cash totals are reset to what you had at the beginning of the round if you lose, so you can try out new gear options. If you have an Engineer, keep in mind that their teleporters are two-way in MvM, making getting to and from spawn a breeze.

[Ingmar]

They actually have to buy an upgrade to make them 2 way. Also it means you need to be very careful when you're strafing around, we've had people accidentally teleport a bunch of times which can really screw things up.

[Samwise]

The very first mission (Disk Deletion, I think?) is by far the hardest of the ones I've played.  It took me maybe twenty tries to find a decent team to finish that one; since then I've finished two more, each on the first try.

Scout is my new favorite MvM class now that I've seen how to play it correctly.  Once you've got Mad Milk with all the upgrades the team doesn't even need a medic, and all the fast robots get slowed down enough that they're easy to deal with.

[Sjofn]

2.  No time given to even get new equipment unless you die.  By that point the bomb is at the door.  Be nice if there was some time between waves.  Or, is there a way to buy stuff while in the field?

There IS time to run back, buy new upgrades, and get back to where you want to be between waves. If people whine you need to hit f4, just ignore them. :P The only class this is probably really annoying for is the demoman, from what I've seen.

And yeah, try a normal map. They're much more forgiving, and the stupid queue isn't actually much longer (if longer at all) when you queue for a specific normal map.

[Ingmar]

I just ignore the whining, I'll hit F4 when my sticky bombs and I are good and ready.

[Simond]

And yeah, try a normal map. They're much more forgiving, and the stupid queue isn't actually much longer (if longer at all) when you queue for a specific normal map.

Or don't queue at all, if you're doing non-Mann Up games. Just go to server browser and put 'mvm' in the search.

[luckton]

Finally got time to play around with this on my Engineer.  Dominating scout bots with the turret is just .  Combined with +building health, faster rate of fire, and faster wrench attacks, I can barricade myself and the turret just doesn't die.

[Samwise]

So I finished the full Tour.  Here's the skinny on the loot rewards for Mann Up Mode:

1) You get a random loot drop at the end of each mission.  Seems like it's a standard drop with a small chance of getting a metal hat; I got one metal hat and five normal weapons from my six missions.
2) You get a random Strange Botkiller weapon at the end of the tour.  ("Strange" means it has a kill counter on it, "Botkiller" means it has a robot head on it.)

I have to say, I'm impressed by how well they're straddling the "achievement" and "pay for toys" gap -- I've never felt the slightest urge to buy stuff from the in-game store, but I feel completely okay with having paid $6 for my Strange Botkiller Medigun.  I think it's the e-peen factor and the fact that simply paying the $6 isn't enough, you have to have gotten through the stupidhard missions in order to get the cool-looking gun.

It also helps that at no time after finishing a mission have I thought "I paid too much for that".  It's definitely more entertainment than a dollar would get you in an arcade.

[K9]

How does the matchmaking work, did people stay in for the whole tour? I'm tempted to give it a go, but worried I'll end up with a bunch of mouthbreathers who can't complete anything...

[cironian]

How does the matchmaking work, did people stay in for the whole tour? I'm tempted to give it a go, but worried I'll end up with a bunch of mouthbreathers who can't complete anything...

After completing one of the six missions, you get kicked from the server. So unless you manually form a party before each mission, you'll be playing with different people.

[Samwise]

How does the matchmaking work, did people stay in for the whole tour? I'm tempted to give it a go, but worried I'll end up with a bunch of mouthbreathers who can't complete anything...

That is frequently the case, especially on the long/hard/frustrating missions, but you only get "charged" (i.e. use your ticket) if you actually complete the mission.

[Samwise]

I'm playing on community ("boot camp") servers so I can play the "normal" maps.

$1 for the Mann Up tickets is definitely worth it not to have to play with these goddamn mouthbreathers.  Holy FUCK.