Early Impressions: Power sets

[Segoris]

I didn't check before if they were applied in the same way, and they are. That said, they are two perfectly identical abilities (neither is an upgade or downgrade). Remember - Fatal Flourish just has a bugged tooltip which is being fixed (as stated on the test patch notes) since it currently only stacks to 5 stacks, as intended.

[Falconeer]

Oh, the "10 stacks" is not true? Then it's really silly. It made little sense if they were 10, it makes no sense at all with 5. I assume they'll fix it at some point. Anyway, since the tooltip is wrong, I'd say it's the result of some nerfing/boosting they did in the beta and forgot to update the text. Clearly something is still off.

[Sky]

While Dark Potency is a nice low hanging version, you're going to end up with Fatal Flourish if you're blade...and even if you aren't Incision is just way too awesome of a synergy not to get after Fatal Flourish.

FF using Aff to buff Pen feeding into Incision using Pen to Afflict....

Otherwise, yeah...just get Dark Potency.

[calapine]

Well, they said multiple times that even "starter" abilities are supposed to be potentially useful in any deck at any point. If a certain passive ability ("Dark Potency"), can simply be replaced/upgraded with a 51AP investment (Fatal Flourish) to the point you will never ever have a single reason to use it anymore, I think it's a flaw in their design idea. No matter how few reasons you might have to prefer one over the other, one skill should never be just a flat upgrade to any previous one with the only difference being in the AP cost (again: given the design they quote all the time).

Wait, they don't stack? I am using both :/

[Lantyssa]

I wonder if they both trigger, so you can build up 2 stacks at once?  Seems wasted, but at least that'd be something.

[Segoris]

Yeah, would be completely wasted imo. Maybe if they stacked to 10 and had a chance to fall off if you glance or miss or something, but neither ever falls off (except when their duration runs out) so there's no urgency to rebuild them quickly

[Lantyssa]

Yeah.  And since I've got the passive that causes every hit to apply affliction, all my attacks trigger this, too.

[calapine]

Naysmith
Funcom Customer Support

Fatal Flourish is only intended to stack 5 times (instead of 10 times as its tooltip states). We apologize for any confusion this has caused. These abilities are essentially the same as you already suggested but they also stack as you stated. Having both of them equipped will allow you to gain two stacks of the Penetration Rating buff with each application of Affliction. If you have any further questions or concerns regarding Fatal Flourish feel free to reply to this thread.

 Thanks,
 Naysmith

I just tested this...It's true (one hit applies 2 stacks of penetration buff), but kind of pointless as you reach your max 5 stacks on the 3rd shot already.

[Ginaz]

I've been playing around with the Witch Hunter build (sword/hammer) and I'm liking the damage it can do.  Single target dps seems higher than with the Puritan shotgun/hammer build.  Only downside so far is engaging ranged targets is very limited due to using only melee weapons.

[Sky]

I just tested this...It's true (one hit applies 2 stacks of penetration buff), but kind of pointless as you reach your max 5 stacks on the 3rd shot already.

Nice, that was an important component of my Pen build along with Incision.

Dammit, now I want to play my sword guy again :) Guess I could add in blade to Bryn, I've found Elemental kind of underwhelming for her crit build; I'm mostly just using Thor's Hammer to dump the resources I'm building. Maybe time to put in some sword/pen. Which is mightier?

Oh ho ho!

[Ghambit]

So of late I've been getting discouraged with my ele/chaos build.  It's just lacking the punch of something like my blood/fist build and isnt as survivable as I'd like it.  Solution?
Passive skill-bridging via non-equipped weapons!  I didnt realize this was even possible until I checked on it today.

In theory I could apply a hindrance state that'd trigger from something that gives a weakened state or vice versa.  Here's a good post on the theory:

http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=27633

For instance I could bridge say pistols to apply a weakened state (for chaos) via crit trigger, which applies afflict/hindrance for elementalism.  You then pop actives accordingly.  So on a chaos hit I'd get a weaken/impair, and if I happened to crit I'd get an afflict/hindrance.

Ideally you'd go for say a hit trigger off a ranged ele ability that'd trigger the states for chaos... which looking at the table seems like Fist would work for the impairment.  Crit definitely gives more bridging opportunity, but then of course you'd need the gear to pull that off.

Assuming you find a route that works, you then dump the crap actives necessary to apply the states directly.  For chaos this would be escalation.  Leaving a slot open for something else.

[Ghambit]

edit: yah, the above isn't gonna work with ele/chaos w/o dipping into the outer wheel.  Fail.

[Ard]

This is so Segoris can yell at me again before I start stocking up the 380 ap I need for this build.

Elem/Blood affliction chain
http://www.drakkashi.com/secretworld/wheel.php?28=0&42=4&26=4&24=4&30=3&40=6&41=3&42=5&43=2&44=5&43=0&19=0&28=3&27=0

The core idea of the build is a constant blast of aoe chains that reapply afflictions and do mutliple dd's to every afflicted target. 

Use Open Vein as a builder, which chains and applies an affliction to every target, which also gets hit with a dd from salt in the wounds and I hope molecular explotation.

Blaze is used to touch of criticality chains, which should touch off a chain reaction chain also.  Wiith luck, vital fluids might allow you to mass spam Blaze without having to continue reusing a builder, due to all the afflcitions being reapplied.  Anima Charge is there to jump start Blaze without builders.

Molten Earth is strictly there to pin things in one area, and can be followed up with Liquidation for afflictions, with all the perks.  They're both insta-cast, and don't require builders, so it's kinda reasonable.

Infection is interesting for corpse explosioning things, but it has a cast time.  Bloodshot I'm iffy on, but it's an instant cast blood consumer.

I considered Phantom Purge and Grounded for pvp to add in a chain purge and additional dd in each chain, but I don't have room for the passives the way it's set up right now.

I have no clue if any of this will work the way I think it will, or if it'll even be better than a raw aoe build.

[Lantyssa]

Since you're already going for Salt in the Wound, consider swapping something like Vitality out for Bloodsport.

Gross Anatomy is one I'm considering eventually to pair with Bloodsport.  Its affliction duration is short, so it should trigger that frequently.

[Ard]

Bloodsport's place is taken by Chain Reaction.  They do effectively the same thing in this case, but chain reaction is better since everything activates off of chains and it does more damage, and doesn't break off of glancing.

Gross Anatomy I looked up, and it looks like it's a massive underwhelming mess.  I couldn't get a clear answer, but it looks like it only procs on a DoT ending after it's full length, and not on it being reapplied, which more or less means it never goes off.  I still plan on testing it at some point, but it's at the end of a tree i'm not currently planning on going down, and I'm already in a 380 ap hole for this build.

Vital Fluids is there so I can potentially spam Blaze non-stop to burn down a single target faster while maintaining a massive aoe.  If Vital Fluids ends up not working out, I'm probably going to replace it and Molecular Exploitation with Phantom Purge and Grounded for Fusang.

[Ghambit]

Only the rewards are unique. The outfits you get. So if me (Templar) and you (Illuminati) have the same identical set of Actives and Passives, the same deck, I might get a reward and you don't (or the opposite).

But efficience-wise, they are absolutely the same. So yeah, different factions reward different decks/sets. But you can still obviously have the same "deck", just not the Deck Outfit (Reward).

This is false.  The builds/decks are different between factions.  For instance, a Dragon "Wu" concentrates on afflictions whilst an Illum "Thaumaturge" concentrates on penetration; though both are blood/fist. 

It's a nice touch that adds a bit of polarity between "classes."

[Sky]

That's what he said. If he's a Dragon blood/fist with an affliction build, he gets a Wu outfit, where your identical Illuminati doesn't get a reward for the same build.

[Falconeer]

What Sky said. Builds are the same. The only difference is that some builds get you an outift reward if you are with certain faction while you can do the same build with other factions and simply not get the (cosmetic) reward. I can make a Templar "Wu", it just won't have the Wu outfit, but will have the same identical set of passive and active abilities.

Every build is a "deck". Faction Decks are just guidelines that get you a cosmetic reward.

[palmer_eldritch]

Here's a build using passive abilities from a range of weapons:

http://thesecretsandbox.com/Deck?abilities=,4,25,203,209,197,199,187,149,302,116,200,553,1015,1017

To work, this basically depends on getting a penetrating hit or two in. Then it just becomes a buffing machine with me getting stronger and the mob getting weaker every shot. When Deadly Aim and Breaching Shot are both up, it kills things quickly (only single mobs though - although I would imagine the exact same passive setup would work for ranged abilities if I just swop them in). Without them, it depends on me getting a lucky penetrating shot or two.

I could make it more reliable by swopping Incision for Bloodsport (so that I "inflicted" an opponent on every hit, not just on penetration), but Incision does more damage and you seem to penetrate a fair bit.

[Sky]

I'm pretty sure this is Bryn's current Pistol/Ele build, crit-based.

http://thesecretsandbox.com/Deck?abilities=,197,17,23,21,19,139,25,20,22,198,200,227,71,134

I'm slowly phasing out Above the Law, but it's nice easy aoe slow burn for triple-dots and adds. I'm also very close to dumping Elem as an active, which I'm mostly using for Thor's Hammer to have a secondary resource dump. Drone kit also on the fence, it's again mostly just some passive dot with a tiny bit of heal (I only dumped maybe 2 or 3 skill ranks into the support/survival/heal/whatever line of pistol: 5 ranks into dps).

Self-healing was decent in Kings, but I've dropped most or all of my self-heals and right now going to grab the Survivalism self-heal to replace Drone Kit. The little dribbles of self-heal on crit and pen + drone kit just aren't cutting it anymore, I end most fights half-dead in SC.

[Nebu]

I've been playing pistol with two heals from the fist line.  I'm starting to think that self heal specs really kill dps and just aren't worth it. It does help a great deal in minimizing downtime between fights when I solo, but I'm pretty conflicted about dumping any and all heals from my hotbar.

Any thoughts?

[Ard]

Turn the Tables, third ability in the top misc category.  Okay self heal that doesn't scale with stats at all, so it's usable in a dps build.  There's also potentially Expulsion in the blood line that scales off of attack rating, but it's elite, and deep into blood.

[Segoris]

IT'S TIME TO YELL AT ARD!

So using bloodsport in place of chain reaction could cause you to lose critical damage bonus from Blaze (ONLY if Blaze is used after the previous attack glances) and one proc of molecular explosion. However, I'd be curious about the dps loss/gain compared to applying afflicted over the course of a fight when applying affliction from the use of Blaze, Molten Earth, and Bloodshot considering how rare it is to glance a target later on. It could be close and I'm guessing BS would be an increase (small, but still an increase). Quite possibly so marginal it's not worth debating to a point where it comes to personal preferance of choosing A) Apply affliction less or B) apply affliction more with a chance of having it be canceled for one attack on a rare occasion

The changes I would make would be switching Vital Fluids (depending on how Molecular Explosion and Salt in the Wound play off each other and how they scale as they may be less valuable than VF and if VF can proc more than one on a single chain cast) and Splatter for Live Wire and Dark Potency/Fatal Flourish (DP in this case as you won't need to invest in Blades which I doubt you have at this point based on our chats). LW is a 1500+ hit we'll average it out to be about once every 10s or faster since this is an AE-chain build, and DP will add penetration which as long as you're hitting a mob pen is the best stat to have imo. The reason I've switched my mind on Splatter is that I thought chain abilities only hit 3 targets for some reason, but on the deck builder website linked they show all chain abilities hitting 5 targets. Outside of the last boss in Darkness Wars I can't recall a time I had more than 5 enemies. If chains hit 3 targets then splatter is a must have like I thought last night

I don't see much value in Anima Charge when using consumers that only use 2-3 resources given how fast resources are built (and it's value is even lower if VF can proc multiple times on a chain attack even with your intended purpose for having it). It may be worth it for a full 5-target chain finisher, but I'd give it up for some option of a different finisher (such as Electrical Storm for an Ele Chain finisher which gives you 2 chain finishers, or Magnetic Wipe for a purge when needed). Since this is an AE build, I'd also drop Molten Earth and pick up Cold wave. Longer cooldown and slightly shorter duration but it hits 5 targets (just as your chains do) as opposed to 1 target.

Here's what I've come up with (again, this is only if Vital Fluids can not proc more than once on a single chain, if it could I'd keep that in place of Dark Potency. It's also based on the +dmg on affliction application and what not being worthwhile instead of placing things like +15% crit damage bonus)
http://www.drakkashi.com/secretworld/wheel.php?28=0&42=4&26=4&24=4&30=3&40=4&43=1&42=5&43=2&44=5&43=0&19=0&24=3&43=6


I'll take a second look at this when I'm home and can see how these abilities scale though. Overall I really like the build for AE Leveling/AE Instance Trash

[Segoris]

I've been playing pistol with two heals from the fist line.  I'm starting to think that self heal specs really kill dps and just aren't worth it. It does help a great deal in minimizing downtime between fights when I solo, but I'm pretty conflicted about dumping any and all heals from my hotbar.

Any thoughts?

Basically - healing skills scale off the +healing stat, dps skills scale off the +attack stat. This is why if you want to hybrid a character you need to use a hybrid gear setup to go with the hybrid skills you're using. I started as Ele/Blood so I could use a couple heal/shields to lower downtime, what I realized was that Tacos are cheap as fuck and killing things fast enough brought about much less downtime than trying to have any healing abilities or gear compared to straight DPS build that is equipped to do Single Target, some AE, and a little CC

However, as Ard points out - Turn the Tables is an ability that doesn't scale on anything, it just performs it's healing as stated. If you have a spare active ability it is the best heal for dps/tanks (outside of things like Karma and/or fuel the fire)

[Sky]

Yeah, Turn the Tables is what I was referring to earlier, because of the whole lack of +heal talismans on Bryn.

And what's all this talk about tacos?

[Ard]

There are tacos for sale in the london darkside that increase out of combat healing regen.

Also, Seg, every single normal hit in my build adds affliction in an aoe due to chain reaction.  Blaze + Criticality trigger it, as does the builder Open Vein.  There's no real gain with bloodsport over it as far as I can tell, and only a downside.

[Segoris]

Tacos are found in London in the Underground or something like that. There is a demon vendor who sells tacos for 100<coin> each. They are usable outside of combat and increase hp regen to basically give a complete heal in less than 10s or so

Currently - they only stack to 10, next patch they can stack to 100 which will be awesome.

[Miasma]

I didn't realize that's what tacos did.  I thought people were just eating them for that absurd achievement.  The health regen itself seems okay I just think it takes too long after combat ends for it to kick in.

[Numtini]

On heals for soloing, I think the only ones that are really useful are things like the AR leeches that heal you while you inflict damage. The big problem with healing is its meant to be spammed and more or less keep up with damage as it happens, so tossing one in here or there isn't really all that helpful.

I'm running an AR/Blood DPS/Solo build. What are people using for A Blood DPS finisher? I've been using the entry level DOTs but they don't seem all that exciting.

[Ard]

Exsanguinte can work decently as a consumer, especially if you're built for impairs (cardiac arrest or anaesthesia), or if you're doing something that builds counters on hits, since it counts as multiples since it's a channel.  I know some people like using it with flight of daggers from deep in blade.

[Ard]

Seg, turns out that somewhere in the middle of my build and your version of it, there's already a dragon deck.  So apparently we're already on the right track.  It does bring up blood bank, which I hadn't considered previously, but given all the afflictions every single hit, is probably worth finding a slot for.

http://thesecretworld.com/world/decks/8

[Segoris]

Also, Seg, every single normal hit in my build adds affliction in an aoe due to chain reaction.  Blaze + Criticality trigger it, as does the builder Open Vein.  There's no real gain with bloodsport over it as far as I can tell, and only a downside.

You're right, I didn't make that connection. So only your CC doesn't apply affliction the times that it doesn't crit. Yeah, smart move then

On heals for soloing, I think the only ones that are really useful are things like the AR leeches that heal you while you inflict damage. The big problem with healing is its meant to be spammed and more or less keep up with damage as it happens, so tossing one in here or there isn't really all that helpful.

I'm running an AR/Blood DPS/Solo build. What are people using for A Blood DPS finisher? I've been using the entry level DOTs but they don't seem all that exciting.

Personally, I'm not even a fan of the AR leaches. I tried using one when our healer in a Polaris Elite was having a hard time keeping a [not-so-good] tank alive. The finisher was healing the tank for something like 200 hp and gives the tank a leach effect. When I tried that leach effect on my dps build, it was healing me for something like 5-10hp per hit so for a tank that is likely down to about 2-3 per hit. That is because the leach % scales with the +healing stat to a point where even doing X amount more damage doesn't allow it to scale enough to be worth using. It's similar to any other ability that gives +healing of any kind (outside of turn the tables) in a dps build where it just isn't worth the loss of dps. So far,a the best way to reduce downtime as a dps is to just kill faster or use some CC (impair, root, etc).

And for the finishers, in addition to what Ard said, I like Blood Spike. The first one isn't too poweful but if you use it every chance after that it hits hard.

Seg, turns out that somewhere in the middle of my build and your version of it, there's already a dragon deck.  So apparently we're already on the right track.

http://thesecretworld.com/world/decks/8

I'd almost consider saying scrap it entirely if it's close to one of the awful premade decks :D

[Ard]

I'd almost consider saying scrap it entirely if it's close to one of the awful premade decks :D

Well, I more meant that someone had already at least tried parts of this combo together, so I'm less concerned about how bits of it will play together now.  The version they have is still awful, but it did make me look up Blood Bank.

[Ingmar]

My strategy:

Spend points in shotgun. Mash buttons. 

[Segoris]

Well, I more meant that someone had already at least tried parts of this combo together, so I'm less concerned about how bits of it will play together now.  The version they have is still awful, but it did make me look up Blood Bank.

Yeah. I was just joking though as the decks that FC gives rewards for were from a previous version of the game when a lot of the abilities in them were much better (or so I'm told)

My strategy:

Spend points in shotgun. Mash buttons. 

Your strategy is fantastic! (add a second weapon for another finisher and you win the game!)