Storyline (WARNING SPOILERS)

[Fabricated]

Cain getting bumped off in such a scrublike manner really annoyed me.

Most of D2's background lore is people being in awe of Cain or really bothered by his "presence" like Drognan/Hratli, both of whom can tell that he's extremely powerful somehow despite not really having any magic to speak of. Then in D3 he gets unceremoniously knocked off by a D-Grade villainess in a not-CG'd cutscene.

[Trippy]

Well, there's a few open spots in Heaven's pantheon so I suppose that's possible.   Cain for the new Angel of Wisdom! Tyrael as the new Angel of Valor!

Tyrael is the new "Archangel" (he's still mortal) of Wisdom. They do need a new Archangel of Justice, though.

[Paelos]

Cain's not REALLY dead. He's just pulling a Gandalf.

[Merusk]

Well, there's a few open spots in Heaven's pantheon so I suppose that's possible.   Cain for the new Angel of Wisdom! Tyrael as the new Angel of Valor!

Tyrael is the new "Archangel" (he's still mortal) of Wisdom. They do need a new Archangel of Justice, though.

Yeah I figured Ty would take the 'promotion' to Valor and Cain would step in.  Otherwise.. Cain as Justice? Doesn't quite fit the personality.

Hell, it's Metzen.. we'll wind-up with the Prime Archon or something. 

[Paelos]

Somehow Thrall comes through a portal and punches a corrupted Imperius in the nads, saving the day.

[FieryBalrog]

Cain getting bumped off in such a scrublike manner really annoyed me.

Most of D2's background lore is people being in awe of Cain or really bothered by his "presence" like Drognan/Hratli, both of whom can tell that he's extremely powerful somehow despite not really having any magic to speak of.

Identifying items ain't easy yo.

Except when it is, in D3, lol.

Anyway, I thought the incidental dialogue, banter and voice acting for everything not related to the main plot was pretty good. Dug the followers, townsfolk etc.

Main story plot has Metzen all over it and it's not... good. Almost good in a "wow, this is so goofily dumb" way, but not quite. Act 1 & 2 were still OK since they were all set up, when that set up actually starts getting resolved it goes to dumbville pretty fast. I'm not looking forward to many months of esc-ing out of Diablo's horking speeches at the end there.

[El Gallo]

Story is pants-on-head retarded.  And the millions of shitty machinima and "my life in a book" cutscenes look like ass and, even worse, jar you out of the action no matter how fast you hit ESC.  The between-Act movies at least look good.  But then words happen.

Advice for any video game designer/writer who is thinking about writing a storyline deeper than "good-v-evil with a 1 plot twist max"

1. Look in a mirror.
2. If you see Leo Tolstoy, go right ahead.
3. If you don't see Leo Tolstoy, replace your idea with "good-v-evil with a 1 plot twist max."
4. If you see Chris Metzen, shoot yourself in the face.

[Belasco]

Major story choices that had my head scratching:

-Hazan was clearly Belial after he magically showed up in the sewers to meet you.  This is the Lord of Lies?
-Azmodan, supposedly the master war technician of hell, sounded pretty much like a standard monologuing supervillain making standard monologuing supervillain mistakes throughout the act.  Also if his quest was to take the black soulstone for himself, why is he so far away from it at the end of the act?  A nice twist that could have added some urgency would have been finding the final room empty (or with a mini-boss), with Azmodan already in Bastion's Keep within handreach of the soulstone.
-Cain dying in Act 1 really meant nothing to me, which was sad.  I think the death could have had more impact if it happened at the hands of Adria or Leah at the end of Act 3.

Of course it's Diablo and I'm having plenty of fun making hordes of demons go splat, but an entertaining plot after 10ish years of waiting would have been a nice bonus.

[calapine]

Something that has escaped me:

The black soulstone is used to trap the evils, we do so with Azmodan and Belial. Fine.
But how did the other evils get in there? Diablo, Baal, etc etc...

[Malakili]

Something that has escaped me:

The black soulstone is used to trap the evils, we do so with Azmodan and Belial. Fine.
But how did the other evils get in there? Diablo, Baal, etc etc...

Adria and some handwaving.

[calapine]

Wait. That doesn't make sense.

Diablo clearly states that he is now all 7 evils in one.
But Adria didn't HAVE the black soulstone until we rescued it in Act 2. So did Mehphisto and 4 other evils silently sneak into Bastion keep while we were out and hid inside the soulstone while no one was watching?

"Hi Mephi! My name is Adria. Please put yourself into that stone here, but dont worry it's totally ok, we let you out again soon. See, its all a plan by your brother" Something like that?

[jakonovski]

It's kind of funny that in 3rd and 4th acts the demons say nothing except variations of "it's just a flesh wound!"

[Maledict]

Wait. That doesn't make sense.

Diablo clearly states that he is now all 7 evils in one.
But Adria didn't HAVE the black soulstone until we rescued it in Act 2. So did Mehphisto and 4 other evils silently sneak into Bastion keep while we were out and hid inside the soulstone while no one was watching?

"Hi Mephi! My name is Adria. Please put yourself into that stone here, but dont worry it's totally ok, we let you out again soon. See, its all a plan by your brother" Something like that?

Apparently she was hanging around and 'marked' their souls so that they went into the black soul stone regardless.

It's utter and complete gibberish tbh, and I presume was done so they can give us Mephisto and Baal in one of the expansions.

[Ingmar]

Wait. That doesn't make sense.

Diablo clearly states that he is now all 7 evils in one.
But Adria didn't HAVE the black soulstone until we rescued it in Act 2. So did Mehphisto and 4 other evils silently sneak into Bastion keep while we were out and hid inside the soulstone while no one was watching?

"Hi Mephi! My name is Adria. Please put yourself into that stone here, but dont worry it's totally ok, we let you out again soon. See, its all a plan by your brother" Something like that?

They get sucked in when the evil wizard dude completes the soulstone in Act 2. Supposedly Adria had spent the last 20 years tracking the souls down (after Diablo 2, so they were just floating around or whatever, not "free") and 'marking' them somehow so that would happen.

[Sjofn]

-Cain dying in Act 1 really meant nothing to me, which was sad.  I think the death could have had more impact if it happened at the hands of Adria or Leah at the end of Act 3.

I was sad when Cain died (mostly because of his voice acting for some reason, even though Cain's voice acting is 100% goofy most of the time) but yeah, they timed that all wrong.

[Maledict]

Thats the entire storylines issue though. The actual overarching story is fine - cheesy, but suitable for Diablo.

But in terms of narrative and implementation, it's appalling bad on every level and I just don't see how no-ones pointed it out somewhere alongtheline. Is not just 'notgood', it's honestly the first truly shit thing I've seen Blizzard produce. Be it enemies who tell you their plans every step of the way, utterly ridiculous plot holes, nonsensical dialogue, dreadful characterisation or the main characters flat out being awful I'm just astounded at how bad it is.

Tink the worse thing for me is how my character happily proclaims to everyone that he's going to kill belial, then the armies of hell, then azmodan, then Diablo without breaking a sweat. There's no hesitation, no fear, just ridiculous 'I R HERO I KILL YOU'.

Oh, and when the greatest battlefield command in Hells super strategy is 'throw army pointlessly against walls of the biggest castle in existance' you know your on to a winner. Mind you, given apparently the *entire* army of hell was destroyed by one mortal I'm notsure why anyone cared about the demons in the first place?

[Sjofn]

You are so looking for the wrong things in a Diablo storyline. It's 1-4 people that are HUGELY BAD ASS (and generally know it) versus hell. The end!


This storyline, for all its faults, is still leaps and bounds above Cataclysm's "storyline." 

[Azuredream]

If they kept everything exactly the same but made it so the only time you ever speak to the villains is in person I would cringe less. It's just annoying having them pop up in 'astral form' every time I complete a quest. Does this all go back to that idiotic complaint from The Burning Crusade about how Illidan was too invisible and some people wanted more interaction with the final boss prior to fighting him?

[Malakili]

But in terms of narrative and implementation, it's appalling bad on every level and I just don't see how no-ones pointed it out somewhere alongtheline. Is not just 'notgood', it's honestly the first truly shit thing I've seen Blizzard produce. Be it enemies who tell you their plans every step of the way, utterly ridiculous plot holes, nonsensical dialogue, dreadful characterisation or the main characters flat out being awful I'm just astounded at how bad it is.

In the Behind the Scenes DVD that game with the CE they talk about the difficulty of telling a good story in a game where you are basically not supposed to stop the action at all.  Part of it they tried to do through books that drop (mainly the back story), but I think way too much of it was done with ridiculous dialog.  And then they layer on the painting style cut scenes every so often just to say "HEY IF YOU WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING."  I think of the three, this is the weakest story, but I think that is also because they spent the most time on it.  With 1 and 2 it was pretty loose and the setting just kind of stood as the main thing which made the whole thing coherent (Hey, its a world, evil is here, save it, and a few side quests). 

By contrast it seems like in D3 they try to make every step you take laden with some kind of main story line significance and in the end that actually just makes it feel pretty forced in most cases.   

[Sjofn]

If they kept everything exactly the same but made it so the only time you ever speak to the villains is in person I would cringe less. It's just annoying having them pop up in 'astral form' every time I complete a quest. Does this all go back to that idiotic complaint from The Burning Crusade about how Illidan was too invisible and some people wanted more interaction with the final boss prior to fighting him?

It may go back to them not understanding the nature of that complaint, perhaps. The "Illidan was too invisible" complaint was really "we were given basically no reason to believe he was anything like a threat to Azaroth, so why should we give a shit?" That Kael'thas lieutenant dude you killed in a 5 man, who was a slightly recurring dude, felt more fulfilling to people because a) we knew who he was by the time we killed him, b) we knew he was up to no good and c) he shit talked us once. The problem is, Blizzard took this to mean any face time was good face time (as evidenced by Arthas showing up every two fucking minutes in WotLK). I thought they had gotten better at it with Deathwing, but it was hard to tell since his motivation was so retarded I had a hard time getting past it to give a shit about him as a villain either. 

I think there's a happy medium there somewhere, Azmodan certainly didn't need to chit chat the entire way (although I didn't mind the Claudia Black demon talking shit through HER whole dungeon, and I thought Magdha was fine as a talky villainess too). Mainly I think Belial was tragically wasted as the Lord of Lies. He could've been there every step of the way, without it being telegraphed and in more than just Annoying Child Form, in a way that worked. But alas! Metzen'd.

Still, the fact Tyrael didn't become a full-bore mary sue self-insert was nice.

[kildorn]

That kid was just so transparently going to be a villain. "Hey, how are you here in this secret evil hideout?" "Oh, yeah.. I uh.. found an amulet that lets me uh.. talk to you?"

[Ratman_tf]

Here's all the story a Diablo game ever needs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9ajvJ8jM4

[Malakili]

Here's all the story a Diablo game ever needs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9ajvJ8jM4

I think that is actually one of the key moments in the Diablo storyline for me.  Because it represents something pretty simple - the hero's failure.  Obviously the hero wins, more or less, but it sort of sets up the fact that the player character isn't really a match for Diablo in all facets (even if he can beat him in combat).  Even in Diablo 2 I felt like my hero was really struggling against all hell breaking loose.

But in Diablo 3 they turn that all around.  In Diablo 3 you are the superior to the demons/angels, you are set up from pretty early on for a sure victory.  I think the whole thing would've been superior without the nephalem thing.  Sure, my hero would sitll be badass, but then at least my badassery would be self earned or something, this nephalem thing was just bestowed, and it felt cheap.

[Llyse]

Yeah pretty much.

Are the nephalem mentioned at all in Diablo2? Because I don't remember it at all. I mean the Horadrim and Tal Rasha are fucken awesome, but I don't remember Nephalem at all... I honestly don't mind the Angel stuff, but yeah the Nephalem and the retcon of Leoric's older son slaying Diablo and becoming the Dark Wanderer is just Blizzard/Metzen crap through and through

[Malakili]

Yeah pretty much.

Are the nephalem mentioned at all in Diablo2? Because I don't remember it at all. I mean the Horadrim and Tal Rasha are fucken awesome, but I don't remember Nephalem at all... I honestly don't mind the Angel stuff, but yeah the Nephalem and the retcon of Leoric's older son slaying Diablo and becoming the Dark Wanderer is just Blizzard/Metzen crap through and through

After doing a little poking around it seems like this nephalem thing is fleshed out in the Sin War books.  But fucked if I am going to read novels to get up to speed on Blizzard lore.

[Hawkbit]

After doing a little poking around it seems like this nephalem thing is fleshed out in the Sin War books.  But fucked if I am going to read novels to get up to speed on Blizzard lore.

We'll expect 1000 words by Wednesday, then.  Thanks.

[Maledict]

Yeah, the entire Nephalim thing is dragged over from the books. That's another thing blizzard have to stop doing - stop releasing shit novels and then relying on them for the in game story. Was particulary badly handled in this game though it has to be said - there wasn't even a scene where it was revealed you were a Nephalim. Just flipped straight into it.

[Ingmar]

It basically tells you you're one when you're able to go into the flooded temple. You can kind of piece together everything from the little journal snippets if you're thorough about finding all of them. (I didn't even know there were novels and pretty much felt like I understood what was going on the whole way through.) It isn't as bad of a 'read novels to understand wtf' as WoW has been from Wrath onward IMO.

[Maledict]

Oh trust me, I found every snippet. It's like some disease or something - I was so proud when I finally unlocked the 'heard ever conversation in the game' achievement! ;-)

But yes, at the drowned temple its hinted at you are a Nephalim, and then next stage everyone is just calling you one. Doesn't explain properly what they are, and seems ridiculous to be focussing on it given humans have already kicked the prime evils asses all across the world once before. You could remove it entirely from the game and it would only improve it.

(and possibly stop people wondering how Tyrael made himself mortal, given that humans are half angel / half demon so how could taking his wings off turn him human).

[Paelos]

Listening to Cain talk about the MORLUUUUUoooooo, is a running joke in my group of friends.

His voice acting cracks me up. Also we make up random tomes voiced by our own version of Cain where he talks about taking a dump in the woods over there that one time.

[Merusk]

Yeah, the entire Nephalim thing is dragged over from the books. That's another thing blizzard have to stop doing - stop releasing shit novels and then relying on them for the in game story. Was particulary badly handled in this game though it has to be said - there wasn't even a scene where it was revealed you were a Nephalim. Just flipped straight into it.

They're not going to stop.  They've flat-out said that since the Arthas and other novels have done so well they're going the other way and ramping-up your need to read them if you want to know wtf is going on in the game world.  There will be no/ little backstory in Blizzard games until this crashes, just accept things in medias res and go with it.  

What's that, Cain's dead? Oh, it's explained in the $9 paperback? Ok then.  Huh.. I'm some sort of prophesied savior  and I need to read the D3 book to understand. All right then.    

Someone's trying to grow them into a media empire vs. just a game company.   I almost expect a fully animated movie ($19.99!) prior to the next SC2 expansion so you understand why Kerrigan's a bug again and why the Protoss decided to kill all humans.

[Malakili]

It basically tells you you're one when you're able to go into the flooded temple. You can kind of piece together everything from the little journal snippets if you're thorough about finding all of them. (I didn't even know there were novels and pretty much felt like I understood what was going on the whole way through.) It isn't as bad of a 'read novels to understand wtf' as WoW has been from Wrath onward IMO.

I mean, I wasn't confused by the nephalem thing, I just didn't like it.  I'd much rather just be a normal human who overcomes the odds than a super special human who SHOULD win.  Just a personal preference I guess.  Disliked the same thing about being Dragonborn in Skyrim, for example.

[tazelbain]

Na, you are super capitalist buys latest bad-ass magic gear from E-bay so you can punch the literal personification of evil in the nads.

[Typhon]

First mention of the nephalem is in D2 expansion, the three warriors who bar you entrance to the worldstone area are nephalem.

[Mosesandstick]

The Ancients.