The sky has not fallen (yet)

[Rokal]

It's probably the 2nd biggest English subscription MMO, if that's what Amaron was going for. I don't know how it stacks up to English F2P MMOs in revenue.

[Nevermore]

http://www.runescape.com/

'Totally free to play'

[Raguel]

OT but I'm doing the free trial thing. No one told me Ladyhawke did this game too. You're all fired.

During some cutscenes when you have to make dialogue choices there's a number next to your character, and the number changes after you make a choice. Can someone tell me what that number signifies?

[Amaron]

http://www.runescape.com/

Is probably #3.  It's certainly not matching SWTOR on revenue.  So much money was spent on SWTOR that it can be a colossal failure and still be #2.  It disappointed you and you hate that it might not die.  Welcome to MMO's.

EDIT:  Here are the latest financials I could find before I posted this by the way.
http://www.stellardawncentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18950

That just doesn't match up to a game with a lot of subscriptions.  It's good money but there's a reason someone like EA wanted a subscription model in the first place.

[Sjofn]

OT but I'm doing the free trial thing. No one told me Ladyhawke did this game too. You're all fired.

I am sure I've mentioned it before. So nyah.

As for the numbers, assuming you're in a group, that number is your roll for the conversation wheel, so you can see how you only rolled a 2, therefore the dark side jerk who rolled a 113 gets to vent engineers.

[Raguel]

OT but I'm doing the free trial thing. No one told me Ladyhawke did this game too. You're all fired.

I am sure I've mentioned it before. So nyah.

As for the numbers, assuming you're in a group, that number is your roll for the conversation wheel, so you can see how you only rolled a 2, therefore the dark side jerk who rolled a 113 gets to vent engineers.

lol well I'll make sure I only group with those on my side. Incidentally, does not going full dark/light gimp you? I want my agent to be a badass who doesn't take crap (but dishes it out  ) but I don't necessarily want to drown babies for fun either.

It's weird: I like SWTOR but I really couldn't get into Rift. Maybe it's the setting, the single rpg feel, or it just runs smoother on my pc.

[koro]

There are some weapons that require some level of Light/Dark to use, but nothing end-game and (I believe) nothing with a unique look. Most weapons will require Light/Dark 3 (out of 5). There are also some relics (trinkets) that can require up to Alignment 5, but they're easily replaced. By and large it's just a roleplaying/cosmetic choice.

[Phred]

It disappointed you and you hate that it might not die.  Welcome to MMO's.

I don't think a game that you never intended to play can really disappoint you. As with his posts on ME3 Simond is just here to troll and work out his hard on for Bioware.
 

[Sjofn]

OT but I'm doing the free trial thing. No one told me Ladyhawke did this game too. You're all fired.

I am sure I've mentioned it before. So nyah.

As for the numbers, assuming you're in a group, that number is your roll for the conversation wheel, so you can see how you only rolled a 2, therefore the dark side jerk who rolled a 113 gets to vent engineers.

lol well I'll make sure I only group with those on my side. Incidentally, does not going full dark/light gimp you? I want my agent to be a badass who doesn't take crap (but dishes it out  ) but I don't necessarily want to drown babies for fun either.

Just to be clear, losing a light side/dark side roll still gets you the points for whatever YOU picked, it's just the story will proceed as if you HAD picked the winning roll. So like the dark side jerk won his "vent the engineers" roll, you'll get your +150 LS but the engineers get vented and by the end of the flashpoint you'll get the "vented the engineers like an asshole" title or whatever.

Like koro said, though, LS/DS is mostly a cosmetic/RP thing. The only pain is really relics, you'll likely be lagging on those until you're level 50, but the ones you can buy with daily tokens, the PvP ones, and the ones that drop in flashpoints don't have alignment requirements.


My sith warrior is still neutral, she's about 600 points shy of Light I, I think. She's level 37. 

[Amaron]

This is is interesting:  http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php

They've posted a thread for EVERY advanced class asking for feedback.  So let's see if I've got the timeline correct.

1) Ranked WZ's finally release.
2) Marauder+Pyro teams with operative healers start destroying faces.
3) Georg Zoeller "leaves" bioware.
4) They ask for massive class feedback.

[Soln]

So I put back on some training wheels to go play this past free weekend for awhile.  Haven't played since 1.1.  In no order of priority for me:

*Custom UI tool is superb.  Best I've ever seen for an MMO
*LFR is OK.  Works on a high pop server for Flashpoints but still nothing for on-planet Heroics.   So kind of disappointing but not damning.
*Game still feels way over designed.  Or designed by committee.  Too many skills, way too many skills stats that are not intuitive (AIM?).
*Companions still also feel not all there.  For instance, my main is a Healer Jedi (Consular Sage).  I've only ever played with my Lizard, which is the first companion they give you.  Never got why they would introduce other companions later (like a healer bot) when you can't change your spec.  Feels like wasted content.  Does that make sense?
*Still way too much running, travel time.  There's just no need to have so many transition spaces from Fleet to Ship to Hoth, for example.  Give me more insta ports.  Get me to the fun faster please.
*Still way too much seemingly useless itemization or just my confusion over stats.   Playing WoW lately from 1-85 there seems to be fewer items than SWTOR a player has to go through.  And I have no idea what all these mods or augments do (or did).

So, still not a bad game, but as a casual player just looking for mostly solo play it still feels far less smooth an experience than WoW or even Rift.  Not dismissing people's fun.  Would pay for again.  Just not compelling enough yet.

Edit: I guess on itemization side what I was trying to say is that the obvious complexity they present while unnecessary to maybe worry about as a casual player, that detail should only have to be available on research for Min/Maxers.  I should haven't to have a 6-inch tool tip of stuff to read for a piece of gear, particularly when it's BoA.  But it would be good to have the choice through augments and mods to get that complexity if I need it for Raiding and PvP as a hard core person.  I'm not sure if that makes sense either.   I wouldn't mind paying a sub, but the experience still feels really awkward to me.   

[Sjofn]

While you cant' change your AC, you CAN change your spec (and healer man would be your BFF if you were a pew pew sage instead of a healer one, I think), and you don't need to latch on to a tank pet as a healer anyway. Healers seem to have the most flexibility for companions, actually. Personally, I prefer kicking around with a DPS pet (my scoundrel used Risha and Akaavi, my trooper used Aric and Yuun, my operative mostly used Vector, etc).

[koro]

This is is interesting:  http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php

They've posted a thread for EVERY advanced class asking for feedback.  So let's see if I've got the timeline correct.

1) Ranked WZ's finally release.
2) Marauder+Pyro teams with operative healers start destroying faces.
3) Georg Zoeller "leaves" bioware.
4) They ask for massive class feedback.

The Juggernaut/Guardian threads pretty much confirm the nagging feelings I've been having while tanking with my Snugglenaut. Shitty damage and threat generation, lackluster top tiers in the tank tree, and no flexibility in mobility or range in a game where at least 60% of enemies use ranged weapons and never move.

[Ingmar]

I definitely have not noticed any mobility problems on my JK, I am flying around all over the place constantly - maybe you mean in getting ranged opponents to stand where you want them to? That can be a pain yeah. My damage does seem a little weak, threat is fine now though.

[koro]

A lot of times when I'm tanking, I open up a fight by Saber Throwing something that I'm not likely to be able to catch in an initial Smash or Sweeping Slash, then Charge in... then get knocked back and slowed. I'll hobble back into melee range as quickly as I can, having now expended my one (1) gap closer... and get knocked back again. By this time whatever I was attempting to hold aggro on has now likely moved on to beating up a DPS. It's a huge pain in the ass and it makes me wish tanks in TOR had the knockback resistance that tanks in CoH get.

[Ingmar]

DPS showing a slight amount of discipline makes this sort of thing not a problem, but I realize that is asking for the moon in a PUG. But, yeah, the instant knockback on aggro guys are kind of annoying, but I don't find that it's often a big problem. Almost nothing knocks back so far on the initial jump that I can't pop my free blade storm for jumping on the guy who just knocked me back, for example (for a Juggernaut I guess it would be Force Scream?)

I don't sweat non-silver+ getting onto DPSers at all, though. Standing orders for groups I'm in is that they kill the weak/standard enemies first and I don't even try to tank them. The occasional gold that gets loose for a couple hits generally doesn't cause big problems before I can taunt it back, and since the threat change I don't lose anything champion or higher (my main targets in other words.)

[Fordel]

There is a talent for that, not in your tank tree though. Like after every charge, 4 seconds of CC immunity or something?


I can totally see the frustration though, my Vanguard gets the same charge in and get used as a ping-pong ball, but he can fall back on a few other things.

[Nevermore]

There is a talent for that, not in your tank tree though. Like after every charge, 4 seconds of CC immunity or something?


I can totally see the frustration though, my Vanguard gets the same charge in and get used as a ping-pong ball, but he can fall back on a few other things.

Yes, Unremitting in tier 3 Vigilance.  There are a lot of Guardian tanks who ditch the top tank talents to pick it up.

[Fordel]

Yup, that's the one and I can totally see why they would.

[Ingmar]

I don't see it being worth it personally. Guardian Strike and 20% more damage on force sweep/cyclone strike seems like too much to give up for the convenience of not getting knocked around on a few pulls.

[koro]

The only reason I haven't gone into a hybrid spec and ditched Crushing Blow is because it's got bonus threat on it (and because hybrid specs will inevitably get nerfed and/or Immortal/Defense will get a massive balance pass, so it's not a bad idea to be proficient in 31-point tank tree spec). There is little in the top three or so tiers of Immortal/Defense that going heavy Vengeance/Vigilance doesn't make up for.

[waylander]

Vogel out, more layoffs incoming!

By the time this game's been out a year they'll be flirting with that 500k figure they discussed to break even.  The game didn't improve enough fast enough to even have the basics of today's modern MMO features.  Heck it took hem 5 month's just to put in guild banks...lol.

This SWTOR forum deserves to be in the F13 graveyard because SWTOR is just a tale of what could have been......but wasn't!

[ghost]

BioWare Austin recently said it's considering free-to-play options for the title.

The best thing that could happen to it, really.  I'm never going to pay for an MMO again, I'll just wait 6-9 months for the F2P changeover. 

[Rokal]

Eagerly looking forward to the inevitable F2P conversion. I think the game will really have a shot at success if they do the conversion right.

[Amaron]

Eagerly looking forward to the inevitable F2P conversion. I think the game will really have a shot at success if they do the conversion right.

Calling it inevitable at this point is a bit much.  It could happen but the game doesn't appear to be losing total subs anymore.  Hard to judge just by watching server pops but they do appear to be growing very slightly.

[Rokal]

Calling it inevitable at this point is a bit much.  It could happen but the game doesn't appear to be losing total subs anymore.  Hard to judge just by watching server pops but they do appear to be growing very slightly.

They've publicly eluded to being interested in F2P a few times. They've also said in response to player requests for more character slots that more would definitely be available in the near future which makes me think that the F2P conversion may be sooner than we think. No idea about sub numbers, but it would make sense that server populations have increased given the free-to-15 trial and free 7 days they gave past subscribers. I believe the next earnings call is later this month (?) so we should hear what sub numbers are at that point. Given the layoffs, I expect that the news won't be good.

[ghost]

Eagerly looking forward to the inevitable F2P conversion. I think the game will really have a shot at success if they do the conversion right.

Calling it inevitable at this point is a bit much.  It could happen but the game doesn't appear to be losing total subs anymore.  Hard to judge just by watching server pops but they do appear to be growing very slightly.

They've already said they are considering it and are laying off a ton of people.  F2P sounds pretty inevitable from that. 

[Ingmar]

Every MMO considers it. I guarantee you even WoW has a plan for how to go F2P.

[Amaron]

Given the layoffs, I expect that the news won't be good.

They fired some web guys.  There's no second set of layoffs to dev staff as far as I've seen.  Vogal actually quit weeks ago with the initial set of layoffs.

[ghost]

Every MMO considers it. I guarantee you even WoW has a plan for how to go F2P.

Of course they do.  They're not idiots.  But most aren't floating it around on game sites to see what sort of response they will get unless they are somewhat serious about it. 

[Amaron]

Of course they do.  They're not idiots.  But most aren't floating it around on game sites to see what sort of response they will get unless they are somewhat serious about it. 

SWTOR isn't doing that.   They made one comment when someone asked about it.   The same exact comment Blizzard made years ago when someone asked them. 

[Lantyssa]

Every MMO considers it. I guarantee you even WoW has a plan for how to go F2P.

That's been their maintenance mode plan all along.

[ghost]

Of course they do.  They're not idiots.  But most aren't floating it around on game sites to see what sort of response they will get unless they are somewhat serious about it. 

SWTOR isn't doing that.   They made one comment when someone asked about it.   The same exact comment Blizzard made years ago when someone asked them. 

Did you read the article?   

[Ingmar]

The "recently" they're talking about is from an interview in mid-June where the Bioware guy was actually misquoted; here's the correction that apparently Gamasutra has not picked up:

UPDATE
games™ would like to make a correction to the original article posted 14 June.  While Emmanuel Lusinchi was discussing whether Old Republic could transition to other business models, we misquoted the lead designer in the original post. Lusinchi did not explicitly use the words “free-to-play” but did answer a question about the possibility of The Old Republic going free-to-play by saying “we are looking into everything.”
Here is the entire quote from the interview: “The MMO market is very dynamic and we need to be dynamic as well,” he says. “We are looking at everything but I can’t tell you in much detail. This decision is a little bit above my pay grade. We have to be flexible and adapt to what is going on.”
EA Labels President Frank Gibeau recently spoke to GamesIndustry.biz about the future of Star Wars: The Old Republic: “We’re going to be in the business from a long term standpoint so absolutely we’re going to embrace free access, free trial, ultimately some day we can move in and embrace that model. It’s all a matter of timing and thinking things through. We have a great business right now and we’re not looking to make any abrupt changes.”
EA announced at E3 that Star Wars: The Old Republic would include free-to-play up to level 15. Whether or not this was what Lusinchi was referring to or whether BioWare has larger plans for free-to-play remains to be seen.

So... did you read the article?

[ghost]

No.  I didn't go out and do a lot of research to make sure the quotations in the Gamasutra article were correct because I really don't care enough about the subject matter to do so.  But it's absolutely silly to think that this game won't be F2P in the next 6-12 months in at least some fashion.  At a bare minimum I would expect an extended trial up to mid level or some shit like that.