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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Guild Wars 2  |  Topic: Games affected by GW2 launch 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Ingmar
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Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 05:12:13 PM

Does it even have dungeons?

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Kageru
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Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 05:16:16 PM

UO set the seeds for it's own population diaspora.

The block mechanic in CO was a ghastly boil on terrible and poorly thought out grouping mechanics. The dodge move when combined with the endurance bar is not remotely similar.

Yes, it has dungeons (I think I saw 8 planned) with the promise being an initial story mode then unlocked in a much harder adventure mode which has branching paths and random events / extensions which may occur as you play to try and keep the experience fresh. The first dungeon is for level 35 so outside of the scope of the first beta. I imagine they have a dungeon finder.

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Tyrnan
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Reply #37 on: May 04, 2012, 05:32:58 PM

Each dungeon also has a unique set of armour for each armour type. You need to complete the story mode and all 3 explorable modes to get the complete set. The stats won't be any better than any other comparable items but they will have unique appearances.
Phred
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Reply #38 on: May 04, 2012, 05:39:15 PM

Does it even have dungeons?

Yes of course it does.
Ingmar
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Reply #39 on: May 04, 2012, 05:40:48 PM

I asked because GW1 didn't have any to speak of at release.

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Nevermore
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Reply #40 on: May 04, 2012, 06:11:39 PM

The block mechanic in CO was a ghastly boil on terrible and poorly thought out grouping mechanics. The dodge move when combined with the endurance bar is not remotely similar.

That may be but Dodge in GW2 is still a lot more twitchy than a game like WoW or TOR which has no player driven dodge mechanic (as opposed to a dodge game stat).

Over and out.
Venkman
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Reply #41 on: May 04, 2012, 06:31:14 PM

WoW didn't kill DAoC. WoW. Saying a title with substantially less potential is going to kill any of the pre-2004 titles, after eight freakin' years of none of the other titles doing it, is to egregiously ignore history.

And UO?! Shit, the only thing killing that game is the remaining players becoming too old to lift their arms to the keyboard. But I expect to see mind-control cursors before that.

I agree SWTOR is probably the one that will be hit proportionally the hardest. But that's only because of the new-shiny folks who jumped to it who'll then jump to a new shiny. And I truly doubt it'll be that much. As many people will cancel SWTOR for Diablo III as for GW2.
Ginaz
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Reply #42 on: May 04, 2012, 06:47:02 PM

Given that there is no sub fee, I don't see too many people leaving their current MMOs for GW2.  People predicted doom and gloom for the P2P MMOs when GW1 was released, too.  How did that turn out? Ohhhhh, I see.
Kageru
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Reply #43 on: May 04, 2012, 08:15:29 PM


I don't think GW2 is going to compete directly with the current raid/gear/e-sport PvP subscription MMO. The lack of sub fee, raid game and gear progression means they're more an alternate path. They might well steal a lot of the casual players though and reveal that the hard core were a lot less numerous than people suspected.

That may be but Dodge in GW2 is still a lot more twitchy than a game like WoW or TOR which has no player driven dodge mechanic (as opposed to a dodge game stat).

Block in CO wasn't twitchy, it was modal, which was a large part of it's problem. The character with agro just held down the block button until they didn't which was intensely boring. GW2 dodge certainly is more twitchy than normal, though the fact it gives you a duration buff (damage reduction while dodging) makes it somewhat forgiving. Though I do find recognising mob "power attacks" a bit of an ask.

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Merusk
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Reply #44 on: May 05, 2012, 04:31:43 AM

I asked because GW1 didn't have any to speak of at release.

Speaking of GW1, the premise entirely ignores that there are people who tried GW1 and thought it sucked, so they have only a passing interest in GW2.  One that might get them to try it on some sale down the road but not before then.

Like myself.  Hated GW1.  Boring, horrible game.

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Threash
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Reply #45 on: May 05, 2012, 12:32:30 PM

That's as much a box sale as the guy who played the past seven years though.

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Numtini
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Reply #46 on: May 06, 2012, 06:58:58 AM

That's as much a box sale as the guy who played the past seven years though.

If you played 7 years, you probably bought all three expansions at full price and maybe a couple of slots for your bank or the mission pack or something.

I wonder about the entire raid based gamers and whether or not they will see GW2 as useless, a different option to play in addition to WoW, or a replacement to the gear based rat race. I also wonder if GW2 won't give in to demand and introduce that to the game. They already have dungeons for points.

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Tyrnan
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Reply #47 on: May 06, 2012, 07:18:50 AM

I wonder about the entire raid based gamers and whether or not they will see GW2 as useless, a different option to play in addition to WoW, or a replacement to the gear based rat race. I also wonder if GW2 won't give in to demand and introduce that to the game. They already have dungeons for points.
But the gear you get from the dungeons isn't any better than the gear you can get from crafting, karma or whatever, it's just visually unique. So if they were to introduce raids I'd expect it to be the same. I don't know how many raiders raid either purely for the joy of raiding (does such a thing exist?) or for the aesthetics of the gear, but I'm willing to bet it isn't the majority.
Kageru
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Reply #48 on: May 06, 2012, 08:50:04 AM


I think GW2 has said they have no intention of adding a raid game. And to a large extent that makes a lot of sense, their system isn't built for it and it would put them in direct competition with WoW which has much greater resources than they do. It also makes much more sense to just accept they are not going to dominate that niche but can make a good proposition as being the other game and fun for the vast majority that don't do much raiding.

The main difficulty will be content consumption (as raiding content has a reasonable practical lifetime) and whether they can motivate players to stay active without gear progression. The two being somewhat linked. It's going to be interesting to see, but if they intend to sell content packs it might be a problem they're not too unhappy to have. And being non-sub they'll tend to keep a pool of potentially active players better.

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Numtini
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Reply #49 on: May 06, 2012, 09:04:25 AM

Well one thing is they have no motivation to keep people engaged in old content, instead they can spend their time coming up with new content to sell for $40 a box every 3-9 months.

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Feverdream
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Reply #50 on: May 07, 2012, 09:53:48 PM

Speaking as someone who's involved in (and enjoys) progression raiding in WoW, I have to say that I am not in the least interested in doing anything resembling raiding in GW2.  WoW has done a fine job with raiding, and I'll log in there a couple of nights a week specifically to raid.  The thought of developing another raiding character in GW2, much less starting from scratch to build the sort of infrastructure that a successful raiding guild requires, does not sound like fun...to put it mildly.  Even though the 5-man encounters they've described sound like they're well-done, I am just not interested.

I'm going to play GW2 primarily for PvP, and secondarily to enjoy a new and very eploration-centered gameworld.

I'm hoping that trying to perfect my PvP skills on a couple of characters in WvW (server versus server) and structured PvP (aremas amd BGs), experiencing the stories and lore, exploration, and crafting as needed to support my WvW character, will keep me more than busy between GW2 expansions.

If GW2 was being presented as a raid-based competitor for WoW, I am not sure I'd even try a beta weekend.  But because it's focused on other aspects of gaming that are very important to me (I'm starved for good world versus world or RvR type PvP). I'm really looking forward to the game.
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Reply #51 on: May 08, 2012, 12:56:25 PM

A question that seems stupid (maybe it is) but I really want to ask to those of you who know much more about GW1: what kept players in it for years, considering the lack of progression which seems to be the glue to every other online rpg? Just the PvP?

Draegan
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Reply #52 on: May 08, 2012, 01:10:01 PM

There is no raiding in GW2 unless you count the large public events that end with giant dragons.
Nevermore
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Reply #53 on: May 08, 2012, 01:12:48 PM

A question that seems stupid (maybe it is) but I really want to ask to those of you who know much more about GW1: what kept players in it for years, considering the lack of progression which seems to be the glue to every other online rpg? Just the PvP?

Well, if it were a sub game I'd have never continued to play it.  However, the gameplay itself was entertaining and coming up with builds for yourself and your companions was fun enough to revisit the game for a few short stints over the years since the only thing it cost was harddrive space.

One thing that was in GW1 that I could never get into myself was some truly soul crushing achievement/faction grinds.  The kind of grind that would make WoW reputation grinding look like a pleasant diversion.  I suppose people who really liked that kind of thing would stick around for a long time to get those.

Over and out.
Zetor
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Reply #54 on: May 08, 2012, 01:47:17 PM

Title grinding was/is fucking terrible in GW1 and I won't understand people who do it (I got the luxon/kurzick title from all the FA/JQ I did, heyy easy HOM points!). Other things I didn't like were the sluggish control scheme, the UI, and things like 0.5sec cast spells that you were supposed to interrupt with 300 ping. Being region-locked wasn't much fun either (blah blah region switch, was limited to a few uses per account) until they changed that a few years after release. Oh yeah, Prophecies started off slooowwww post-searing with a lot of tedious and samey combat (didn't have heroes back then). Factions and especially Nightfall were way better.

That said, GW1 was really ahead of the MMO pack in innovation, from flat power curves to 'smart' companions to storyline missions to strong competitive pvp. It was also a proto-LOTRO/TOR in the way you could have guildies in vent shooting the shit and commenting on Prince Rurik's latest facepalm moment during a story mission.  awesome, for real It never really had "endgame" / "sticking power" / "do things once you completed each campaign" (pick your poison), but I don't think it was designed to. Yea, they added daily quests with an associated coin 'grind' that I promptly ignored because daily quests are terrible. I don't expect too much from GW2 on that front tbh, though structured pvp and wvw both look to be more accessible/fun than pvp was in GW1.

e: to actually answer Falconeer's question -- nothing, really. I played through each campaign once with guildies (main missions and some side missions + a few dungeons like sorrow's furnace). I did play a whole lot of fort aspenwood / jade quarry / random arena ('scrub pvp' if you ask any gw1 eleet dood) since it was easy to pick up even after not having played the game for ~6 months, was fairly fun (especially FA and JQ - and yeah, I played both kurzick and luxon) and there was no gear grind at all. After they added the 'GW1 HOM rewards transfer into GW2' thing, I went back to get 30 points and help my guildies get some as well. From what I've seen, the hardcore GW1'ers either do high-level organized pvp (high barrier of entry, even though there isn't a gear gap to speak of) or speed runs of heroic-mode areas / dungeons for epeen. They also amass tons of gold that I can't fathom what one can spend on (except for things like obsidian armor, but honestly...)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 02:00:22 PM by Zetor »

Lantyssa
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Reply #55 on: May 08, 2012, 02:48:54 PM

A question that seems stupid (maybe it is) but I really want to ask to those of you who know much more about GW1: what kept players in it for years, considering the lack of progression which seems to be the glue to every other online rpg? Just the PvP?
Exploration.  Story.  More Exploration.  Companions.  Skill building.

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