Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Maledict]

Or does she have duckface and is therefore annoying?  :P

Ashley never bothered me.  My only problem with Ashley, at least in the first one, is she starts talking about god.  Luckily, that kind'a gets killed.  But she's a lot better than Kaidan.  Good god, whatta douche.

Kaiden is far better than Ashley in ME3 even if you don't romance him. He's actually capable of moving on past the events of ME2 unlike Ashley, and doesn't continually go on about it nagging you.

[Ratman_tf]

But I'd definitely recommend reading the MS comic. http://koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/

Why?

Why does it take some fan fiction to resolve what should have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction in the original game?

Of course someone can write extra fiction to explain stuff somehow, but that does not mean that's what the original makers of the thing even intended. Its someone else just trying to put their own icing on a cake that arrived wholly made of shit. I'm sure what Koobismo wrote is excellent, but good God man.

The first few strips were amusing.


But then the joke got old, and the strips kept going...

[Fabricated]

I have never not killed Ashley in ME1.

[Nayr]

But I'd definitely recommend reading the MS comic. http://koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/

Why?

Why does it take some fan fiction to resolve what should have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction in the original game?

Of course someone can write extra fiction to explain stuff somehow, but that does not mean that's what the original makers of the thing even intended. Its someone else just trying to put their own icing on a cake that arrived wholly made of shit. I'm sure what Koobismo wrote is excellent, but good God man.

The first few strips were amusing.


But then the joke got old, and the strips kept going...

The strips kept going because it evolved into a real story.

[goishen]

BTW, if anybody wants to add me to their Origin friends list, it's goishen.   I know.  I'm extremely original.

[Nayr]

Definitely one of the funniest parts of ME3 Citadel: Joker lies at a bar to get free drinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQz8GbegA1A

[Morat20]

My FemShep had a romance going with Garrus -- the awkward roleplay scene ("Garrus the Bad Ass Picks Up the Naive Stranger at a Bar") was funny, but the tango was awesome.

My son, when challenged to do pull-ups on the DLC, actually did 183. It was, in his words, "Not worth it".

[Nayr]

My FemShep had a romance going with Garrus -- the awkward roleplay scene ("Garrus the Bad Ass Picks Up the Naive Stranger at a Bar") was funny, but the tango was awesome.

My son, when challenged to do pull-ups on the DLC, actually did 183. It was, in his words, "Not worth it".

Your son is right. The most you get for doing it is a surprised reaction from James.

Totally not worth it!

[Stormwaltz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQz8GbegA1A

Epic plink.

[Sjofn]

Definitely one of the funniest parts of ME3 Citadel: Joker lies at a bar to get free drinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQz8GbegA1A

Hm! How/when/why does that happen?

[Ratman_tf]

The strips kept going because it evolved into a real story.

A real boring story. I made it a few strips in and lost interest.

[Nayr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQz8GbegA1A

Epic plink.

And who says Shepard can't dance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wprquZT-eI

BAHAHAHAHA!

@Sjofn: It happens in the bar at the casino where you buy the party supplies. DO other stuff and visit the casino regularly and eventually you'll see a "wait for Joker" thing there.

[Sjofn]

Odd, I went back and forth several times and never saw it.

[goishen]

I'd love to know how you got to it as well.  I'm just now playing through with my Renegade character.   Maybe that's it.   

Think on the next playthough I'll romance Ashley, Jack, then back to Ashley.

[Nayr]

I'd love to know how you got to it as well.  I'm just now playing through with my Renegade character.   Maybe that's it.   

Think on the next playthough I'll romance Ashley, Jack, then back to Ashley.

Well I explained it.

And just so you guys know, after Joker's scene, there's another in the same place with Wrex, who is complaining about all the mating he's been forced to do since curing the Genophage. Women from all over Tuchanka are lining up outside of his home and he had to sneak out and go back to the Citadel for some peace, but was "attacked" by two more on the shuttle ride. And he stuffs a bag of ice into his pants to relieve his sore quad.

[Jeff Kelly]

Some Characters send you messages to either spend time with them at the Strip or to invite them over to your apartment. To invite them over you have to use the terminal in your apartment. There's and option besides reading your messages and party invites.

If you have invited everybody over or met them at the strip and you leave the area and return then new crewmates send you messages. After a while you won't get anymore messages but when you walk through the locations on the strip you'll get a mission objective target that is usually named "wait for X", with x being the crew mate.

You can meet Joker at the bar in the Casino after you've handled most of your messages and most other encounters also only show up after you've done the first few rounds of invites/activities.

[Jeff Kelly]

If you want a real challenge and you find Insanity not nearly challenging enough try the last armax arena mission or a mirror match with super elite opponents on insanity.

That 'error state mission' was serious fun but also probably one of the hardest fights in ME 3 even on my nightmare run.

Also the level of difficulty of Citadel is quite a bit higher than the rest of ME 3 at least in my experience.

[Ingmar]

I just finished the regular missions in it last night, and you are right. Playing on hardcore I had several reload moments, especially in the solo sequence with the suppression pistol. Doesn't help that my dude is not at all tuned for fighting groups where everyone has a shield by himself, of course.

Also I'm pretty sure this is the best DLC made for any game ever.

[Morat20]

Let's put it this way -- before playing the Citadel in the future, my character will suspiciously choose "overload" or "energy drain" as bonus powers if he/she does not have any other method for handling shields.

Luckily, I had incendiary rounds and flare, which worked well enough.

[goishen]

Well, your kind'a like me, except that I choose Throw as an extra power.  Reason :  Husks.  I can't stand husks.

[Sjofn]

Shit, I did it as an engineer my first time through, and that first part STILL sucked.

[Morat20]

Well, your kind'a like me, except that I choose Throw as an extra power.  Reason :  Husks.  I can't stand husks.

That particular seen aside, given my current character is a Vanguard (Shockwave deals nicely with husks), I can't see chosing any power OTHER than flare. I use Liara to setup singularity or warp if it's an elite, otherwise I just nuke the entire freakin' world with flare.

For an adept, I couldn't see picking anything else really --- I mean you still have a problem with shields, but generally I have a tech follower with overload all the time. And singularity + warp craters everything.

As for husk hatred: I made it a point on ME2 to drag Jack along on any mission that held Husks. Shockwave, shockwave, shockwave....

I hate those freakin' shield carrying assholes in MP, though.

[Sjofn]

I rejected the Omega DLC, so no flare for Sjofn! I am also a Slave to Theme so I don't take powers that my character wouldn't conceivably have, so my engineers and infiltrators (which happen to be my two favorite classes) never get any biotic powers (not even warp ammo!), because I am a TYRANT.

As for husks, they don't bug me nearly as much in ME3 for whatever reason. ME2 I fucking hated them worse than Space Hitler, though, and I usually brought Jack or Grunt for dealing with 'em.

[Ingmar]

Shockwave had the crap nerfed out of it in ME3, sadly. The husks just aren't nearly as dangerous though, so it evens out. (Actually I think husks were probably hardest to deal with in ME1.)

[Morat20]

Shockwave had the crap nerfed out of it in ME3, sadly. The husks just aren't nearly as dangerous though, so it evens out. (Actually I think husks were probably hardest to deal with in ME1.)

Which is why we don't play insanity with new characters (instead characters pulling in all their spectre gear from the previous playthrough) and avoid the Goddamn Husk Cave at all costs.

Also, I think Banshees in ME3 were designed entirely to teleport the instant I fire a rocket in MP. (Also, still not terribly thrilled about the heavy weapons choices. I mean I use them more, rather than save up all the ammo 'for later' that never comes, but I also seem to only find them AFTER the fight is over).

[kaid]

Shockwave had the crap nerfed out of it in ME3, sadly. The husks just aren't nearly as dangerous though, so it evens out. (Actually I think husks were probably hardest to deal with in ME1.)

Ya shockwave really does not work as good now as it did when ME3 released but given how much easier it is to do the various tech/biotic explosions now it evens out. Also singularity works REALLY WELL now. It primes everything it touches so even in its gimped form shockwave can detonate multiple biotic explosions on a single cast against husk swarms.

[kaid]

Well, your kind'a like me, except that I choose Throw as an extra power.  Reason :  Husks.  I can't stand husks.

That particular seen aside, given my current character is a Vanguard (Shockwave deals nicely with husks), I can't see chosing any power OTHER than flare. I use Liara to setup singularity or warp if it's an elite, otherwise I just nuke the entire freakin' world with flare.

For an adept, I couldn't see picking anything else really --- I mean you still have a problem with shields, but generally I have a tech follower with overload all the time. And singularity + warp craters everything.

As for husk hatred: I made it a point on ME2 to drag Jack along on any mission that held Husks. Shockwave, shockwave, shockwave....

I hate those freakin' shield carrying assholes in MP, though.

The shield guys are pretty easy if you have singularity up just toss it on them hey look no shields. Also if you have pull available even rank 1 just swap to it if you are having lots of those buggers and just rip all their shields.

[Sjofn]

Lash will also yank away the shields!

Lash is pretty hilarious in general.

[Nayr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0vypASSPw8

You know, I don't think Joker ever laughed once before this, despite his name and habits.

[goishen]

(Actually I think husks were probably hardest to deal with in ME1.)

They are.   I just started a playthrough for my 11th gazillionth time.   It breaks down like this.  ME1 :  Explode on death and gang up on you.  ME2 :  Gang up on you in hordes.  ME3 :  Jump on you while furiously hit F, you pray that something else doesn't shoot you.

Also of note :  Shield carrying guys, a few hits with the M99 Sabre takes care of them.  Love me some M99 Sabre.

[Sir T]

You know, I don't think Joker ever laughed once before this, despite his name and habits.

That was the origin of his name actually. I know I probably only know this because I started an ME1 play-through recently, but he says flat out when you talk to him that he worked his ass off in flight school to become the best and to overcome his disability, and because he never even smiled everyone started sarcastically calling him Joker, and it stuck. He is actually a very serious, cynical and driven guy, and not comic relief.

And he did smile in ME2 once, when EDI said that in a fight between 2 computers the best programmed will win, so humans are needed as a random balancing factor. And Joker smiles and says "See? We have permission to be incompetent" or something like that.

[goishen]

And he did smile in ME2 once, when EDI said that in a fight between 2 computers the best programmed will win, so humans are needed as a random balancing factor. And Joker smiles and says "See? We have permission to be incompetent" or something like that.

"In a battle between two AI's, the one with superior hardware will win.  Organic unpredictability defies these models."

"See there, Commander?   License to screw up."

Or something like that.   God, I am such a geek.

[Morat20]

So I'm finally, you know, playing the game and have just finished up Rannoch.

WTF is with the Reaper on foot shit? That's twice now (Tuchanka and Rannoch). It's NOT GODDAMN FUN. It is so far, in fact, less fun than wandering around scanning for shit (which I'm cheating on) and running away from Reapers.

Its....just annoying as fuck. "Have a laser pointer". It took two deaths before I realized it saved my progress on the pointing. (But not, of course, if you die. Oh no. Get to the third shot and die? START OVER FUCKER).

Pointless.

The drum thing on Tuchanka was fun, I guess, but the waves of Brutes and Reaper Death Beams and no "oh, just ignore those and run" instructions means I died trying to kill brutes AND avoiding a laser beam and frankly it was just trial and error. (On a repeat play, not so hard).

[Nayr]

So I'm finally, you know, playing the game and have just finished up Rannoch.

WTF is with the Reaper on foot shit? That's twice now (Tuchanka and Rannoch). It's NOT GODDAMN FUN. It is so far, in fact, less fun than wandering around scanning for shit (which I'm cheating on) and running away from Reapers.

Its....just annoying as fuck. "Have a laser pointer". It took two deaths before I realized it saved my progress on the pointing. (But not, of course, if you die. Oh no. Get to the third shot and die? START OVER FUCKER).

Pointless.

The drum thing on Tuchanka was fun, I guess, but the waves of Brutes and Reaper Death Beams and no "oh, just ignore those and run" instructions means I died trying to kill brutes AND avoiding a laser beam and frankly it was just trial and error. (On a repeat play, not so hard).

Well you've got one more on-foot encounter. But the good part is that you don't interact with the Reaper at all during; you just have to survive until the thing gets within range of a missile strike.

[Jeff Kelly]

I've now finished another run of ME 3.

I've now done several with the "old" ending and one with all DLC (incl. Leviathan) and the extended end.

They've reworked a few dialogues along the way to make the supposed theme more clear (or at least to commit themselves to the story they told after all of the PR fallout) and Leviathan fills in a lot of the missing info.

Most dialogue and even a few of the cut scenes are different from before when you get to the beam and on the citadel

The new reworked ME 3 tries to make the following points about the Reapers and at least succeeds in explaining them better than before. (a little bit of fan theorycrafting follows)

1. It's a mad, mad, mad, mad AI

They try to make clear that it's a mad AI that's calling the shots here, one that has a certain twisted understanding of its mission and purpose. A bit like HAL 9000 from '2001'. Also one that has so far failed to find a solution to the problem. It 'saves' the cultural and technological heritage of sufficiently advanced synthetic and organic races because it has completely failed to find the ultimate solution to the always emerging conflict yet.

The reapers are basically a stopgap solution until it finds a true and ultimate solution.

It's also insinuated that the AI has somewhat lost control of its own creation - the reapers - which would have been a huge opportunity for dramatic irony if done by a team of more capable writers. The AI claims to be the collective consciousness of the reapers at the same time as talking about them in the third person as if they are some kind of rogue military operation.

It might be sloppy writing but if not then it's quite clear that the AI is landlocked on the citadel and while it still can think about a solution of the problem posed by Leviathan's race, the Reapers do what it created them to do single-mindedly and without the ability for it to control them. So even if it would finally find a way to solve the problem of organics vs. synthetics once and for all it couldn't execute that plan because it long lost control of its 'executive branch' since the reapers do what they were created to do. So it needs an Avatar

Which is bad news since it also thinks that organics are part of the problemand so couldn't even pose a sensible solution (after all organics always create synthetics so why trust then ones who create the problem in the first place to solve it in an acceptable manner).

It has thought itself in a hole it can't climb out of. It created the reapers to help with the solution but somewhat lost control over them. It would need the help of organics to stop the reapers but wouldn't let them because it deems them a 'part of the problem so unable to help with a solution' and it can't even think of what the game proposes as the ultimate solution 'synthesis' without the help of Shepard - an organic. So it's essentially useless at everything it was designed for.

It ultimately needs Shepard. The AI can't control the Reapers and it can't destroy them either. Iit wouldn't let an indoctrinated person control them either because then the Reapers would basically entirely control themselves. It would lose even the modicum of control it still has

2. The neverending pattern of conflict between synthetics and organics and the cyclical evolution of the galaxy is explained better

They try to establish the pattern of 'organics develop technology, technological advances lead to the development of synthetics and synthetics rebel against their masters' better than before. This is best seen in the reworked dialogue between Shepard and the AI. You now have the ability to ask about what you accomplished and what the AI did to finish its mission and what exactly your accomplishments mean to the mission of the AI (spolier: nothing at all).

It's no longer 'synthetics always rebel' even if you managed to broker a peace between the geth and the quarians but a 'even if you managed to broker peace between one race and another your children will develop AI that will the rebel against them'. Children in the sense of 'races that come after you in other cycles'. You also get a few more examples about 'rogue AI' and synthetics vs. organics conflics in the story and with the DLCs.

This point would have offered another fine opportunity for dramatic irony since the pattern the AI described is a pattern it establishes itself time and time again due to the harvest and the restart of the evolutionary cycle that is then directed in certain ways with the help of indoctrination technology and the reapers (the mass effect portals, technology caches and the citadel shape the galactic evolution of races to evolve them in a way the reapers want them to evolve).

Ultimately the AI not only fails to establish a solution to the problem posed by Leviathan's race but is enabling that pattern due to its own meddling with the evolutionary cycle of the galaxy.

While searching for a solution it itself became the problem.

3. The game clearly thinks 'synthesis' is the best solution to the problem

The final part of the Citadel mission now has a somewhat better written dialogue that tries to tell you that both Anderson and the Illusive Man are wrong. Even the AI tells you in no uncertain terms that it thinks that control and destroy are subpar solutions.

Destroy will end the cycle and the threat posed by the reapers but won't ultimately solve the always emerging conflict between organics and synthetics, it will also wipe out any synthetics or beings enhanced by cybernetics (it clearly tells Shepard that he/she will die because he/she is partly synthetic) it will also do some damage to mass relays and other advanced tech but in an extend that 'can probably be repaired with minimal effort'.

Control will also end the harvest and the cycles but also won't solve the pattern of conflict it also places unimaginable power into the hands of a single race/single person. The AI also can't beyond a shadow of a doubt prove to you that you will be able to ultimately control the reapers and that there is no possibility that the reapers will control you eventually.

Only synthesis will foster a true understanding between synthetics and organics because ultimately there is no longer any difference between the two. For the AI it's also the only logical next step of evolution since organics always develop technology to augment their lives and themselves and so there seems to be a biological imperative to use synthetic technology to overcome the limitations of biology and evolution (there would be no spacefaring races without technology for example)

4. The AI can only offer you four solutions and nothing else because it has only limited control

The dialogue is now reworked to make it somewhat clearer that the AI can only offer you four solutions to the conflict and that it wouldn't even be able to offer you three of them without the Crucible.

Control them
Destroy them
Synthesis
Do nothing and this cycle ends as those before and a new cycle starts.

Conclusion

My analysis is making the story to be more that it actually is in game but at least now there's half a decent sci fi story there that could have been made into a decent or even great plot if it was planned that way from the start and if a team of somewhat capable writers had the opportunity to do it. (Citadel DLC shows that there are still a few of them left at Bioware).

The rest of the changes have been made to close some of the more egregious plot holes (well Leviathan DLC is basically a constant info dump to fill in the blanks of the story and all that for the low low price of $9.99) but this has largely failed since they opened up a few new ones in their stead.

The mass relays now no longer blow up but instead just turn faster and glow red/green/blue

They spliced in an 'evac scene' before the final push to the beam that explains why your squadmates are on the normandy. It also invalidates everything from Priority: Earth since you wouldn't have to do the push with Hammer forces in the first place if the Normandy could just land there with enough time to evac wounded squad mates and a few minutes of 'I want to stay with you. No just go' dialogue. Why not repeat Jokers idea from Ivos and basically throw a Mako through the beam with a close pass fly by. Hell, why not do this with all of Hammer's forces the Reapers can't possibly get all of them before they reach the beam.

They spliced in a dialogue scene on the normandy cockpit after you chose one of the solutions in which Hackett orders Joker to 'get the hell out of there' which explains why the Normandy has made the relay jump out of the sol system. It fails to explain why anybody should 'get the hell out of there' after the reapers left/were destroyed and the galactic forces basically won. They basically retreat after the Citadel charges up but before they could see what the Crucible actually does.

The normandy is no longer stranded on the planet. At the end it is shown that while it is damaged it manages to take off in the final scene before the credits.

There is a voice over dialogue by one of the squad mates that explains the end and the consequences for the galaxy.

There are inserts of a few stills images that show life in the galaxy after the end of ME 3. They loke mostly crappy and done on a rush though.

If the extended cut and Leviathan were there at launch of ME 3, fans would still probably largely complain about the abysmal execution of the story and the end but it would have been a lot more mellow in comparison to the shit storm that Bioware had to experience.

It still forces you to sacrifice your Shepard without giving you a satisfactory explanation as to why it has to be that way (it's basically 'techno magic makes it so you have to').
It's still basically a 'button push' end that casey said Bioware would never do.
The final mission and end is still riddled with plot holes and 'there is no alternative' dialogue and the game still takes control away from the player every time it needs to make a plot point happen.
The 'starchild' theme and story still clashes with most of the experience you had during ME 1, 2 and 3 up to Priority: Earth (In fact the comically charged Citadel DLC makes it even worse). It still switches from space opera to 'existentialist hard sci fi' plot in the final mission.

The whole plot - even if it was meant to be that way from the start - is still executed very badly.

At least now you can somewhat see where the authors wanted to go with the whole thing. Most people won't still agree with the premise that conflict between organics and synthetics is unavoidable and the solution though but at least now it doesn't come out of left field like it did before.

It's also sad that you need two DLC packages - one of which they charge you for - to get the full experience.