Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[koro]

we decided ultimately the reason that they were sent was not done in the context of celebrating the work or accomplishment of the Mass Effect 3 team.

Worked that out all on your own, did you?

And from a different perspective, from the PA forums:

Let me put it this way, then - and bear in mind I don't work on ME3. The people who worked on that game have, in a lot of cases, dedicated a good five to ten years of their lives to a single franchise. They have spent evenings and weekends because they're really just that passionate about what they do. And, by and large, people are happy with the majority of ME3 - but they're disappointed in the endings. They -know- people are disappointed about the endings. Anyone who isn't aware of it is living under a rock.

So, at this point, it's being reminded in a variety of ways, on a daily basis, 'hey we didn't like this thing you did.' Bearing in mind how much of themselves the people who worked on ME3 put into the game, I can totally understand why they'd be a little frustrated. Especially since, in a lot of cases, they had nothing to do with the part of the game that most people have an issue with. I understand that our fans are passionate, and I appreciate it - but that doesn't mean that people need to be reminded on a daily basis about the folks who are disappointed in the ending. Whether or not you intended it to be passive aggressive (and, honestly, I don't think you did), it comes across that way. Which, to the majority of the people on the team (who have no ability to make any kind of change or announcement), sucks and, I'm sure, makes them feel like crap.

[ajax34i]

Unfortunately, "How's the ending?" will probably be a question often-asked of all future Bioware games / reviews.  

Most (all?) of us realize they know the ending's bad, but their PR machine has not, thus far, given an indication that Bioware as an entity is admitting to the mistake and/or making plans to correct (and what the plans are).  So as much as their devs may be frustrated, the fans are also frustrated by the replies the PR face of Bioware is putting out, and the jabs and ridicule will continue.

EDIT:  If there are plans to "fix" the ending and the devs have been mobilized and working on them, they should feel a lot less frustrated by all this stuff, no?  So, I mean, we don't know what they're doing right now, but they're probably not sitting around the office being sad / frustrated / discouraged and doing nothing / eating icecream.

[Ratman_tf]

Unfortunately, "How's the ending?" will probably be a question often-asked of all future Bioware games / reviews.  

Most (all?) of us realize they know the ending's bad, but their PR machine has not, thus far, given an indication that Bioware as an entity is admitting to the mistake and/or making plans to correct (and what the plans are).  So as much as their devs may be frustrated, the fans are also frustrated by the replies the PR face of Bioware is putting out, and the jabs and ridicule will continue.

EDIT:  If there are plans to "fix" the ending and the devs have been mobilized and working on them, they should feel a lot less frustrated by all this stuff, no?  So, I mean, we don't know what they're doing right now, but they're probably not sitting around the office being sad / frustrated / discouraged and doing nothing / eating icecream.

Of course not. They're eating cupcakes!

And, of course. Bioware are now goat fuckers. . The end is a pretty spectacular place to fuck it up, and people are going to be talking abouty it for a long time, when the subject of Bioware and Mass Effect come up. That's life.

[Jeff Kelly]

Poor little things, didn't like the fan reactions to their game.

Rule Number One when you do anything creative: People have opinions, people will tell you their opinions. Most people won't be polite about their opinions.

If you don't like it you shouldn't be involved in anything that has the power to evoke powerful emotions in others. Nobody would send you cupcakes if they didn't care about your product (be glad it's cupcakes, be really glad it's cupcakes).

Fire your inept PR department, keep your development leads and producers from talking to the press (never a good idea BTW), don't authorize "Making of Mass Effect" documentaries that expose your inept PR strategy as bullshit and most of all acknowledge the feelings of your fans. You don't have to like those feelings, you don't have to agree with those feelings but at least have the courtesy to acknowledge them as being valid.

"We hoped the fans would like the end as much as we did and we're sorry and sad that you didn't but we still feel that it's the right end to the series."

Then most people wouldn't have felt the need to send you cupcakes in the first place (again be glad that it's cupcakes and not something else)

[Jeff Kelly]

but from Bioware's point of view they're getting lectured on the basic principles of storytelling -- something that they take pride in being experts at.

Sometimes as an artist you really fall in love with an idea. Depending on your approach you're more intuitive or more cerebral about your work but there are always times when an idea grips you and doesn't let go. It's a little like falling in love with another human. It's great and exhilarating and a bit scary and it#s the best and greatest idea you'ev ever had. Perfect, nothing is wrong.

Just like in real life, though, your first impression might be wrong you're just to emotionally invested to see the flaws.

If you're lucky it was a really great idea, then you can put it down to inspiration in the nice little anecdote you tell people after the work is done.

In my experience though most of the time ideas you are really in love with are a special kind of really bad ideas. You just don't see it because your emotions blind you from seeing it clearly.

Sometimes it's just bad, sometimes it's just something only you or people like you would like,  sometimes people would need to be inside your brain to "get" it.

The problem then becomes a problem of letting go. You are usually so enamored by your great idea that you don't listen to your own tastes or to the critcism of others. If you are in a cooperative process you tend to subvert or circumvent that process because you know that your idea is great but the others simply don't get it. Just like a dove eyed lover won't heed the advice of his friends.

Some of the time you realize it before the finished piece get's into the wild, sometimes it will be the topic of every interview with you saying "well it seemed like a great idea at the time".

After everything I've read about the final days of Mass Effect it seems to me like that was the case here. A head writer that was so in love with his brainy idea that he didn't heed the advice of others and even ignored established creative processes and input.

[Mosesandstick]

I'm pretty sure one of the key points with the cupcakes was trying to send the message the game was good but the ending wasn't.

The response seems pretty rude to any of the fans who genuinely feel this way.

[Montague]

I'm pretty sure one of the key points with the cupcakes was trying to send the message the game was good but the ending wasn't.

The response seems pretty rude to any of the fans who genuinely feel this way.

Bioware still hasn't gotten over the "hamburger helper" episode. It's obvious they think the people complaining about the ending are the same cockbag trolls that piled on their writer, hence all the defensiveness.

[Sir Fodder]

If I had a choice between a kickass fixed ending or a detailed postmortem/mea culpa  on "what went wrong" I'd much muuuch rather take the Gamasutra writeup. In fact, even though I really liked ME (especially the first one) if I could go back in time and choose between great ME3 ending with fans happy or borked ME3 ending with forum drama and lulz I'd definitely go the borked route.

[Furiously]

Maybe you should just quit playing computer games and go hang out on 4chan then.

[Sjofn]

Poor little things, didn't like the fan reactions to their game.

I do, in fact, feel bad for all the people who had nothing at all to do with the ending and are seeing all their hard work, which went into the parts of the game that were really good, being crapped all over because of something beyond their control. It sucks for them, and I would definitely feel like shit in their position as well. They're powerless to fix it, just as they were powerless to stop it in the first place, and powerless to even respond. So instead they get to hear, every day, about how their game ruined the entire franchise.

[tmp]

Yah, it must suck for them. If the ending didn't happen there'd be way more squeeing over Tali's port and all the other nice stuff they put in. As it is, it gets overshadowed.

(well, except the guy/gal who made Jacob move on, they'd get scorn still

[Sjofn]

Seriously, fuck whoever decided to do that. I should be REWARDED for investing time into your most boring character, BioWare, not punished! 

[Nonentity]

I just want to post these Javik comics.

Incredibly long images under the spoiler.

[Jeff Kelly]

Then I suppose there are posts by Bioware employees claiming that they'd got nothing to do with it for every successful game launch too.

I empathise even though I sound like a douche atm but you get the good and the bad both, as you do in any creative endeavor.

Sending cupcakes was a funny, pretty subdued and probably delicious way of showing that criticism. I'd expected much worse given the level of rage fans got into and you usually get worse.

You get a little bit of the glory when things go well and you get a little bit of the blame when things go bad. Even if you've got nothing to do with it in either case. Comes with the territory.

It was a much better way than "take back mass effect" anyway a shame that Bioware reacted like they did though

[Sjofn]

  Javik  


EDIT: By the way, Jeff, I have indeed seen their writers, at least, give proper credit to whoever wrote whatever thing people are being all excited about if they're wrong about who wrote it.

[Ratman_tf]

[LK]

Jaavik comics are the funniest things I've read all month. Thank you.

[tmp]

I just want to post these Javik comics.

Incredibly long images under the spoiler.

Incredibly long maybe but so totally worth it

[Nightblade]

am I the only one who heard Javik's voice in their head as they were reading these comics? Fantastic.

[Pezzle]

All threads need more Javik!  MORE

[Sjofn]

Douche Prothean is Best Prothean. <3

And yeah, I heard his voice in my head too. :P

[Stormwaltz]

Bioware still hasn't gotten over the "hamburger helper" episode. It's obvious they think the people complaining about the ending are the same cockbag trolls that piled on their writer, hence all the defensiveness.

Unfortunately, I think this is in many cases accurate.

The Javik comics were hilarious.

EDIT: I was pointed to more here: http://skoolmunkee.tumblr.com/

[tmp]

Hmm just realized why i like the Douche Prothean so much. He's like DAO Sten with wee bit of extra douche. And i :heart:d Sten.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, he's a more talkative Sten in some ways. And who doesn't love Sten?

[Jeff Kelly]

EDIT: By the way, Jeff, I have indeed seen their writers, at least, give proper credit to whoever wrote whatever thing people are being all excited about if they're wrong about who wrote it.

OK then, I'll cut down on my snark

[Margalis]

I do, in fact, feel bad for all the people who had nothing at all to do with the ending and are seeing all their hard work, which went into the parts of the game that were really good, being crapped all over because of something beyond their control. It sucks for them, and I would definitely feel like shit in their position as well. They're powerless to fix it, just as they were powerless to stop it in the first place, and powerless to even respond. So instead they get to hear, every day, about how their game ruined the entire franchise.

Yeah, I have zero sympathy sorry.

What about people who spend 5 years working as the guy who models the stadiums in Madden? Or the guy who works on 3 straight Spongebob Squarepants DS games that all get shit on in reviews, then gets laid off and can't find another job because he only worked on shitty DS games? What about the guys who worked on Scratch: Ultimate DJ? Or people who have spent 5 straight years working on different projects all of which were cancelled and have zero published titles to their credit?

If you spent a lot of time and effort working on ME3 you have it great compared to most people in the video game industry, even if people are shitting on one part of your game. Like, I'm supposed to feel bad for these guys and not the guys who made Thor? For the most part these guys have it good. Sure, it sucks to have people bash your shitty ending that totally deserves bashing but then again it also sucks to come into work one day and have a security guard escort you and all you friends down to the parking lot.

There are a billion people who work in games who put a lot of effort into something that is panned and sells like garbage despite their best efforts, and most of them would swap with a ME3 guy in a second, despite the incredible psychological damage they suffer by receiving cupcakes.

Feeling sorry for guys who worked on a huge hit that got great reviews that is criticized for 2% of the total game is just ridiculous unless you are also going to feel sorry for like 15 thousand less fortunate people. I'm not saying it's right to be total dicks to them but they are in a comparatively awesome situation vs. most people.

[tmp]

unless you are also going to feel sorry for like 15 thousand less fortunate people.

I'd take it as pretty much a given. Is anyone in this thread actually suggesting otherwise?

[Sjofn]

No no, tmp, I apparently have to spell it out.

[Kail]

unless you are also going to feel sorry for like 15 thousand less fortunate people.

I'd take it as pretty much a given. Is anyone in this thread actually suggesting otherwise?

Er, yes?  You're saying that you actually feel pity for every single game developer/programmer/artist/whatever who worked on a game that was less successful than Mass Effect? Seriously?  I mean, I can buy you going through the whole "fifteen people got let go from studio XYZ today, poor bastards," but nobody cares about the people who just spend all day making make Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen's Magical Horse Adventure.  Maybe you're bravely keeping the pain inside or something, but I've never heard of anyone giving a shit about the people who did the background graphics for Grotesque Tactics being fucked over by the gameplay being fundamentally crap.

[tmp]

Er, yes?  You're saying that you actually feel pity for every single game developer/programmer/artist/whatever who worked on a game that was less successful than Mass Effect? Seriously?

No, i'm saying i can feel pity for people who get teabagged because a game they've worked on gets proclaimed piece of shit, when said people were only responsible for making parts of it that aren't actually shitty. Or other similarly unfortunate cases where honest and solid work would go to waste due to faults that weren't one's own. No matter if the game in question happens to be Mass Effect or something else.

Don't know why it'd be so surprising attitude to take, really. Obviously though, that reaction is typically limited to specific cases which do get brought up to attention. Like say, complaints about ME3 in thread about ME3.

[Sjofn]

And it's not like I said I'm ready to go on a hunger strike to bring attention to these poor people and their plight. I feel bad for them. And I can quite easily feel bad for anyone in a similar situation (where they did something good, but a coworker fucked up, and everyone is focusing on the fuck up and tying you up with the suck, even though you were rad). It's not hard.

[Kail]

I don't think the issue is about the ability to feel bad for people in a bad situation, it's where you set the bar for deciding what is a bad situation.

The people working for ME3 are pretty much "living the dream."  They're working on a high profile, highly successful game with generally positive reviews and they did (generally) a pretty good job.  The one major complaint people have has nothing to do with 95% of them.  This is pretty much as good as it gets in the video game industry, and they chose to work in the video game industry.  It just seems weird to me to pity someone for that.

edit: I dunno, I just get kind of the same vibe from this that I get when famous actors bitch about how much it sucks being famous.  This was the life they chose, I can throw a rock from where I'm sitting and hit five people who'd gladly trade places with them if they could, so any sympathy I feel for their plight is kind of liimited.

[tmp]

I don't think the issue is about the ability to feel bad for people in a bad situation, it's where you set the bar for deciding what is a bad situation.

Getting lambasted for something that isn't your fault is a bad situation, simple as that. The "issue" is trying to create artificial divide where none is needed.

To put it differently, seeing someone getting kicked in the balls won't make me instinctively cringe and cross my legs any less when that kick is done by a naked supermodel. And i don't think it'll make that kicked guy physically hurt less, either.

[Kail]

I don't think the issue is about the ability to feel bad for people in a bad situation, it's where you set the bar for deciding what is a bad situation.

Getting lambasted for something that isn't your fault is a bad situation, simple as that. The "issue" is trying to create artificial divide where none is needed.

To put it differently, seeing someone getting kicked in the balls won't make me instinctively cringe and cross my legs any less when that kick is done by a naked supermodel. And i don't think it'll make that kicked guy physically hurt less, either.

That's the point, though, it IS about that divide.  Your example relies on being on the other side of it.  You're comparing getting physically kicked in the balls to the pain of having someone send you cupcakes.  I'd argue that those exist on opposite ends of the "bad things that can happen to you" continuum.  If you're saying that you feel bad for someone that has had to go through the trauma of recieving cupcakes, then the issue IS about where we're drawing that divide.  I'm saying "I don't think this TV is very heavy, so we shouldn't complain about moving it up these stairs" and you're saying "if we had to move something that was fifty tons, I'd be justified in complaining about it" but there's a step missing in that argument.

edit: changed the argument a bit

[Ratman_tf]

I don't think the issue is about the ability to feel bad for people in a bad situation, it's where you set the bar for deciding what is a bad situation.

Getting lambasted for something that isn't your fault is a bad situation, simple as that. The "issue" is trying to create artificial divide where none is needed.

To put it differently, seeing someone getting kicked in the balls won't make me instinctively cringe and cross my legs any less when that kick is done by a naked supermodel. And i don't think it'll make that kicked guy physically hurt less, either.

Why don't you go to Bioware with a naked supermodel and some cupcakes that have "ME3 Ending Sucks!" written on them in frosting. Offer everyone either an insulting cupcake or a kick in the balls. Record results for SCIENCE!