Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Sjofn]

I'm not really interested in more ME games, I realized. My desire for more blew up with the relays. Mass Effect was already out of my usual Zone (I am not really into shooting things, usually, and I am not really into sci-fi), blowing up the relays so everything goes sideways just makes me go all "meeeeeh." I want THIS setting, not a post-relay setting (that's FAR IN TEH FUTURE or wtfever) or a pre-reapers setting (since I know it goes sideways in not-too-long). I'd want a post-reapers-but-there-are-still-the-fucking-relays setting, I guess.

me = picky?

[ajax34i]

I don't know if the majority of people commenting on the internet are actually interested in providing feedback to Bioware.  He seems to think that the point of all the posts is to improve the game through feedback.  As if that works (personally I'm jaded by just how little effect my feedback and bug reports in SWTOR have had).  But in any case, if we're at the stage of making fun of Bioware because of the ending, it doesn't sound like we care how Bioware feels or what they'll do with all the derision.

As far as not tolerating destructive commentary, they can do that on the official boards, sure.  The rest of the internet will probably keep on going with the destructive commentary, though.

[kildorn]

I don't know that I'm entirely interested in an ME4 in the far far future.

But I'd play the shit out of Homeworld: Mass Effect.

[PalmTrees]

I'm not really interested in more ME games, I realized. My desire for more blew up with the relays. Mass Effect was already out of my usual Zone (I am not really into shooting things, usually, and I am not really into sci-fi), blowing up the relays so everything goes sideways just makes me go all "meeeeeh." I want THIS setting, not a post-relay setting (that's FAR IN TEH FUTURE or wtfever) or a pre-reapers setting (since I know it goes sideways in not-too-long). I'd want a post-reapers-but-there-are-still-the-fucking-relays setting, I guess.

me = picky?

Pretty much the same for me. I like sci-fi just fine, but they blew up ME with the relays. Blew them and the franchise up with a Battlestar Galactica level stink bomb of an ending. I don't watch bsg reruns, even when BBCA put them on right before Dr. Who. Didn't watch the Caprica prequels or whatever they were. Like bsg, ME's just dead to me.

Muzyka's '"..but the ratings" was hilarious. Don't need any mods to shoot through cover that thin.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The whole blog post comes off as very demeaning, in that he seems to think everyone is just being very passionate about the ending, over reacting and just generally being pissy. Not that you know, the ending might actually BE horrid, just that people are upset.

[Rokal]

It's the exact same tone as the DA2-backlash reactions from them, only this time they begrudgingly admit that they have to listen to fans anyway. I guess watching DA2 (which also had great review scores  ) sales tank after the first week and likely seeing very low DLC sales numbers showed them that fan reactions matter a little bit.

It's already too late for ME3. Even if they concoct the best-ending-ever and decide to scrap their original ending as illusion from indoctrination, that DLC is still 3-4 months away at minimum because of the pipeline they're using and the certification process. It's more likely that the DLC they make will stick with the same ending but try to provide more closure, which means they'll probably be charging you for it. ME3 will be gone and forgotten for most gamers by that point, with many console players having sold the game back. The shitty ending will be what people remember ME3 for. Similar to how DA2 went from 85+ reviews on most websites to 'most disappointing' on GOTY lists, the ending will have cost Bioware most of the GOTY awards they otherwise would have won.

[Jeff Kelly]

If only some of those execs knew how to talk to people and how to phrase a compelling answer...

- You shouldn't point to the high review scores when most of the reviewers clearly hadn't finished the game prior to the release of the reviews. People might notice that generally those reviews are not following the general trend of opinion and might wonder just why that is, exactly. You're shining a spotlight on an issue that you'd probably rather see buried and you're throwing your reviewers under the bus by shifting the blame over to them (in the eyes of the readers you do because they already blame somebody)

- "The critics liked it" has never in the history of commercial endeavours been a valid argument it's usually the final sanctuary of someone who has been scorned by public opinion.

- There is no such thing as "destructive feedback", vehemently expressing your displeasure IS feedback mainly that you didn't like it. If he meant that people should rather tell him what they didn't like instead of just bitching mercilessly then he just has to look at Biowares own forums to find a metric shitton of suggestions. Sentences like that just make you sound as if you hadn't really noticed any of the feedback that people gave you up to now. It makes you sound ignorant and it sounds like all of the feedback until now was not up to your standards.

- You could express the same sentiment in a single paragraph instead of a whole page of "streamlined by marketing" obfuscated text. Half of your readers won't read further than the first paragraph, many will misunderstand it. Most of them are a priori wary of marketing speech anyway.

- Telling fans how they should feel about something and how they should express those feelings is never a great idea ever

- Don't offer any answer to fans at all if you're not in principle committed to change something about ME 3. If people realise that your offer never amounted to anything other than to calm the masses you'll only make it worse than it already is.

Ultimately it sounds disconnected and demeaning, shows that he isn't even aware about the state of fan movements regarding the game and he doesn't promise anything except to listen but phrases it in such a way that most fans will misconstrue it as Bioware taking action.

This will only make things worse and will probably blow up in Bioware's face.

[amiable]

If LOTR ended like mass Efffect:



http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/270/606/13a.jpg

I lol'd.

[LK]

Thank you Jeff. My feelings exactly.

[luckton]

This game will still end up on some Game of the Year lists.  Although I haven't played ME3 myself yet, I have yet to see an overwhelming number of people trash the game except for when they reach the end.

If you don't consider the first two ME games, and rate the game on it's own merits of gameplay, graphics, sound, and presentation, it'll still rock most reviewers enough to be remembered for getting some awards.  

[Tebonas]

You really have to experience the rest of the game to get how much of a kick in the nuts the ending is, though. I suspect most reviewers never played it to the end, so you might be right.

[murdoc]

Said elsewhere, but echoes my thoughts exactly:

Here's the thing no one wants to admit: most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there's a controversy at all.

[Paelos]

-I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created
-I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  
-It was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it.
-I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.
-This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games
-The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented.
-Most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional
-Some of the criticism has ... become destructive rather than constructive.
-I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted.

Cutting out all the PR crap, I think it was supposed to be an apology that unshockingly somehow turned into a defense of their decisions. You know what Ray? You're wrong. It's not your best work; not even close. Telling the fans that is basically spitting into their faces. Also, you shouldn't be supporting your team when they make mistakes. You should be supporting your customers. Your team doesn't pay your bills. Your team isn't the ones you have to make happy at the end of the day. It's your customers. Somewhere in this convoluted mess of a letter, you missed that point. If the reaction has been so unprecedented, it's because your own team's fuckups were so unprecedented. Most folks don't think the game is exceptional; the people you paid to say it's exceptional don't even really think that once they were done. Nobody will support your shit when you try to pander to them and then insult them out of both sides of your mouth, you fucking hack.

[Fabricated]

I just think they took a perfectly good setting and pissed it away on an unsatisfying ending.

I'd have been semi-satisfied if the canon endings didn't destroy the relays so we could just get more of the universe in later games/spinoffs where we aren't fighting machine gods. Personally I would've liked to seen more space opera political skullduggery or basically firefly in Mass Effect where instead of a super  Space Marine funded with Megabux from some military or mysterious organization you're cruising across space in the equivalent of a Chevy Nova.

[Rokal]

This game will still end up on some Game of the Year lists.  Although I haven't played ME3 myself yet, I have yet to see an overwhelming number of people trash the game except for when they reach the end.

Some, but less than it would have (and almost certainly less than ME2 got). The biggest discussion about the game is now and always will be about how shitty the ending was. There will be plenty of time between now and December for games to come along without such a gigantic flaw and without the internet hate machine pointing out arrogant comments and bad writing.

[Maledict]

Said elsewhere, but echoes my thoughts exactly:

Here's the thing no one wants to admit: most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there's a controversy at all.

I would disagree. Firstly, this has gotten more attention than any other gaming controversy I've seen in a long time -  mentions on news articles for example. Secondly, I have never seen the Internet so united in its condemnation of the quality of a game. When neogaf, penny arcade, f13 and fires of heaven are all saying exactly the same thing the either the apocalypse is upon us or something is wrong.

Of course, only 50% of people will actually finish the game so obviously they won't see an issue, but judging from all the evidence the vast majority of people who do finish the game are pissed off at the ending - and it's a bit silly to try and dismiss that as 'just a few hard core fans, everyone else loves it.'

[Paelos]

The ending of the game got a writeup in Forbes of all things.

It's such a flub that even investors got wind of it.

[luckton]

The ending of the game got a writeup in Forbes of all things.

It's such a flub that even investors got wind of it.

That just comes with the territory of being a publicly-traded company; your product's successes and failures aren't just linked to you and your company, they affect the global market and anyone that's got their hand in the pot as well.

[Ingmar]

DA2 (which also had great review scores  )

You keep saying this, but it isn't true. DA2 Metacritic = 79. ME3 Metacritic = 93.

[Rokal]

DA2's scores went down over time, but during the first week or two reviews were very high (~85 on metacritic iirc). I believe the original press blurbs about how high week-one sales were also mentioned how well it was being reviewed.

[Ingmar]

My recollection is not the same at all. The bad reviews stood out to me as crazy because I enjoyed the game so much.

[jakonovski]

Dr Ray sez Bioware will do something about the ending: http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

The hilarious part is the ignoramuses sprouting up all over the internet, incensed over the decision yet completely ignorant of the fact that rewrites have been around forever.

[ajax34i]

Their magic patch in SWTOR is also in April, I think.  I guess April will be a magical month for them.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's not about that, the damage is done.

1. When they re-write or give an addendum to the ending are they going to charge?
2. How many people will be interested even if it's free?

As said before, video games are so plentiful now there's no reason to stick with a brand that has annoyed you in any way.  Whether the slight is big or small, just pluck another apple from the gaming tree.  

I want to say their best bet would be to lower the price when new ending content is released, sell the whole thing for $20-30 and try to get all the goodwill they can from late adopters while giving away the 'ending' DLC for free.  Even then the brand has been hurt and that won't change.  

Shame it's not on steam either...

[Paelos]

I can tell you right now that the reviews from here kept me from buying the game, and I own the other two. Add in the fact that Origin is locked into this thing, and they fucked up the conclusion?

I would be the first one to buy it and play it if: 1-  they patched in new endings and 2 - offered me another way to get their product besides their proprietary service (due to the ToS disagreement).

[amiable]

I can tell you right now that the reviews from here kept me from buying the game, and I own the other two. Add in the fact that Origin is locked into this thing, and they fucked up the conclusion?

I would be the first one to buy it and play it if: 1-  they patched in new endings and 2 - offered me another way to get their product besides their proprietary service (due to the ToS disagreement).

This is exactly me as well.  The Steam thing made me hold off on buying and the terrible ending buzz killed my desire to buy entirely.  In generla I will not buy a game from Bioware now until I see some reviews from folks I trust or play a Beta, this from a guy who has purchased and wnjoyed almost all their titles (including NWN2 and such).

[pxib]

Shamus Young on the Crucible:

Imagine that the first race, facing the Reaper threat and having no idea how to defeat them, sit down and design a trigger guard. And that’s it. Then they bury the plans for the trigger guard and they die. 50,000 years later, the next race is getting pulverized. Before they die, they find the plans for the trigger guard. They have no idea what it’s for or what it does, but they design a handle to go with it, add it to the plans, and re-bury them.And so it goes. 50,000 years. A safety mechanism. A rifled barrel. A magazine. A rear sight. The trigger. A front sight. A muzzle. An ejection port. Nobody knows what any of this does.

Then Shepard & Co comes along. They follow the plans, which builds a Glock 17 pistol. Admiral Hacket points to the chamber. Something goes in there, but we don’t know what it is or what it does.

Then you meet the Star Child, who just happens to be a 9mm bullet, which miraculously is a perfect fit for this pistol, even though the people who built it have no idea what a bullet is or what it does.

Then the Star Child explains that the next step is to put the bullet in the chamber, aim the weapon at your foot, and pull the trigger. That’s how you “win”.

[Ratman_tf]

Said elsewhere, but echoes my thoughts exactly:

Here's the thing no one wants to admit: most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there's a controversy at all.

Everyone on the internet doesn't count! 

[jakonovski]

Said elsewhere, but echoes my thoughts exactly:

Here's the thing no one wants to admit: most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there's a controversy at all.

Everyone on the internet doesn't count! 

People don't use the internet, that's why any talk that happens there is irrelevant.

[jakonovski]

Oh my god now there's some ridiculous notion gaining traction, that think videogames cannot be considered art unless they refuse fan demands such as ME3's ending change.

[Sjofn]

...

what

[jakonovski]

Like this cretin here: http://badassdigest.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-protests-prove-annie-wilkes-is-the-patron-saint-of-fandom/

[Ratman_tf]

Like this cretin here: http://badassdigest.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-protests-prove-annie-wilkes-is-the-patron-saint-of-fandom/

First sentence is all you need to know.

I haven't played Mass Effect 3 yet

[Ceryse]

I'm another who held off on buying ME3 due to Origin and right now I don't foresee buying it at all given how the ending is, despite having bought the first two and almost all the DLCs (and I hate DLC).

But as for impact and knowledge of just how bad the ME3 ending is; my father, who is slightly into computer games (but only TBS/RTS games, really -- and plays maybe an average of 4-5 hours a day for about four days every 5-6 MONTHS) and does not use the internet for anything besides banking (seriously, if I didn't have to come over and update his SC2 and unlock offline play his computer would spend maybe 5 minutes connected to the internet a month). He's also not in an occupation with a lot of other people, and certainly not gamers..

And he mentioned, out of the blue while I was over updating SC2 for him, the ME3 ending and how he'd heard it was "shit smeared on screen". When I asked how he'd learned about it, he said he heard it on the local radio (since we live in Edmonton, I guess? Not sure how it makes the radio anywhere else). I was floored.

[Paelos]

As I stew more on the note that Ray wrote to the players (and it pisses me off because I think it's another indicator that video game designers do not understand PR at all), I also find it offensive that he goes to the artist defense to get his team off the hook. Because art is subjective so you can't truly critique it right?

I have a feeling that as the game was being packaged, homogonized, and ported to as many mediums as possible, the word "art" never came up. But as soon as shit hit the fan, BE CONSTRUCTIVE PLEASE, ARTISTS AT WORK!