Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Abelian75]

The most concrete thing that I'm frustrated by is how little I can motivate myself to play it again.  I played ME2 so goddamn much, and I never replay things.  The whole time I was going through this game, I was looking forward to my second playthrough, because the game was fun as hell.  And now... yeah, not going to go through it again knowing that it all ends in nonsense and teleporting characters.

Ugh, so frustrating.

[Sjofn]

I have a question for people that loaded saves where crew members were already dead:

During the obnoxiously wanky dream sequences, starting with the one after the genophage resolution, do the already dead companions have lines? Because it felt to me, as I was jogging and thinking how stupid this was, chasing a child I do not give a fuck about while hearing the voice of someone I DID give a fuck about, like there were some weird awkward gaps and random repeats of Nameless Voices calling Shepard's name. I am just curious if those voices were filler, as it seemed like the more of my actual friends died, the more variation in the WHISPERY NIGHTMARE VOICES I got. I'm just curious if it's locked in or if it takes that shit into account, I guess.

[Abelian75]

I have a question for people that loaded saves where crew members were already dead:

During the obnoxiously wanky dream sequences, starting with the one after the genophage resolution, do the already dead companions have lines? Because it felt to me, as I was jogging and thinking how stupid this was, chasing a child I do not give a fuck about while hearing the voice of someone I DID give a fuck about, like there were some weird awkward gaps and random repeats of Nameless Voices calling Shepard's name. I am just curious if those voices were filler, as it seemed like the more of my actual friends died, the more variation in the WHISPERY NIGHTMARE VOICES I got. I'm just curious if it's locked in or if it takes that shit into account, I guess.

Yeah, I was playing a save where I had nobody die in ME2, and I pretty much initially just heard Kaiden saying something in the background.  After Mordin died I heard him as well.  I'm assuming if a bunch of people die that you hear them too, though I can't actually confirm it.  I'd be astonished if that was not the case though.  It was definitely one moment where I kind of regretted not having any deaths in ME2, as it sort of diminished the impact, instead driving home how few of my friends had actually died by that point.  Was looking forward to seeing some of the extra lines during my second playthrough with my less-perfect ME2 suicide mission, but, well... y'know.

[Sjofn]

Ha, yeah, that was kind of my thought at first. "Man, this would actually maybe be a bit more moving if it wasn't just Mordin and Ashley right now." It basically made me think I was pretty good at keeping people alive, all things considered! 

It would make sense that all the dead people talk, I'm just curious if they. You know. Do!

[Ratman_tf]

I have a question for people that loaded saves where crew members were already dead:

During the obnoxiously wanky dream sequences, starting with the one after the genophage resolution, do the already dead companions have lines? Because it felt to me, as I was jogging and thinking how stupid this was, chasing a child I do not give a fuck about while hearing the voice of someone I DID give a fuck about, like there were some weird awkward gaps and random repeats of Nameless Voices calling Shepard's name. I am just curious if those voices were filler, as it seemed like the more of my actual friends died, the more variation in the WHISPERY NIGHTMARE VOICES I got. I'm just curious if it's locked in or if it takes that shit into account, I guess.

I sacrificed the Quarrians to give the Geth true sentience. During the last sequence, I clearly heard Tali's last words that she said before she jumped off the cliff.

And I finished the game tonight. I'll reiterate that I hate the ME cover system, and the last fight at the missile trucks drove that home. I had to turn the difficulty down to Narrative for just that fight, because I kept getting sucked into cover instead of reviving a fallen teammate, or humping cover while a banshee humped my ass. Fucking terrible.

The ending... I didn't hate it, but neither did I love it either. Everything up to the magical Reaper child was fine, and then I was given two color coded endings. I picked blue, out of not wanting to kill the Geth, whom I had sided with, reluctantly, over the Quarrians. And fuck mister knowitall Catalyst. Who is he to judge the races ability to get along with their creations? Whether they do or not, it isn't his place to decide. If not for the fallout, I would have nuked him and his stupid Reapers.

And the jungle planet and snowy old man scenes seemed really trite. Like they were trying to come across as Deep, and hit Derp instead.

3 star ending to a 4.5 star game series. Not completely disappointed. Just a little disappointed.

[Riggswolfe]

I have a question for people that loaded saves where crew members were already dead:

During the obnoxiously wanky dream sequences, starting with the one after the genophage resolution, do the already dead companions have lines? Because it felt to me, as I was jogging and thinking how stupid this was, chasing a child I do not give a fuck about while hearing the voice of someone I DID give a fuck about, like there were some weird awkward gaps and random repeats of Nameless Voices calling Shepard's name. I am just curious if those voices were filler, as it seemed like the more of my actual friends died, the more variation in the WHISPERY NIGHTMARE VOICES I got. I'm just curious if it's locked in or if it takes that shit into account, I guess.

I sacrificed the Quarrians to give the Geth true sentience. During the last sequence, I clearly heard Tali's last words that she said before she jumped off the cliff.

And I finished the game tonight. I'll reiterate that I hate the ME cover system, and the last fight at the missile trucks drove that home. I had to turn the difficulty down to Narrative for just that fight, because I kept getting sucked into cover instead of reviving a fallen teammate, or humping cover while a banshee humped my ass. Fucking terrible.

The ending... I didn't hate it, but neither did I love it either. Everything up to the magical Reaper child was fine, and then I was given two color coded endings. I picked blue, out of not wanting to kill the Geth, whom I had sided with, reluctantly, over the Quarrians. And fuck mister knowitall Catalyst. Who is he to judge the races ability to get along with their creations? Whether they do or not, it isn't his place to decide. If not for the fallout, I would have nuked him and his stupid Reapers.

And the jungle planet and snowy old man scenes seemed really trite. Like they were trying to come across as Deep, and hit Derp instead.

3 star ending to a 4.5 star game series. Not completely disappointed. Just a little disappointed.

His spiel is even more annoying when you have gotten the Geth and the Quarians to work together and get to listen to Tali rave about how the Geth are helping the quarians do in weeks what would have taken years. It's yet another reason why the lack of a "you're full of shit" dialogue option is annoying.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, that was the main thing that cheesed me off about the ending spiel, aside from it coming out of the mouth of That Fucking Kid. RIGHT OUTSIDE was proof he was full of shit, goddammit. And even so, I doubt very much synthetics would wipe out ALL ORGANIC LIFE EVER. All sentient organic life? Maybe. But somehow I doubt they'd go out of their way to kill, like, all the plants and shit.

Graaah!

[Maledict]

What I like about PA is how bloody patronising they are, especially Tycho.

'Oh, I read lots of hard sci-fi, you'd understand it if you just read more'.

I read sci-fi (shockingly!). I've read Hyperion from cover to cover, and just because the end is the same doesn't mean it works. You don't change genre in the final 5 minutes of your game, full stop - that's a basic rule of good writing, never mind sci-fi. If the entire game had built to that point it would have worked, but it didn't. Instead I'm expected to believe the Shepherd who questioned everything, who never backed down from anyone, who went toe to toe with the reapers despite everyone saying it was madness, is now just going to accept what they  say and make a decision that re-writes the basic genetic code of every live thing in the galaxy?

Also, re effect. Dragon Age 2 sold better than Dragon Age at the start remember, and then sales plummeted as word got round. I don't think the same will happen here (because the rest of the game is so well done), but Bioware are now clearly off the pedestal for me and their stuff won't be a day 1 purchase anymore. That's 3 times in a row they have fucked up, and this time has made me wary  about falling for their spiel again.

[Margalis]

That post about the alternate "theories" for the game's ending is really just a catalog of fuckups. It's not even a theory, it's just a bunch of "well this didn't make sense!" observations that somehow sum up to "and therefore it's all like a dream or some shit uh...or something..."

[jakonovski]

Tycho going on about hard scifi endings was a bit cringeworthy because there's nothing hard about ME3's ending. It was wishy washy cosmicism or transhumanism.

[Margalis]

Edit: Eh, who cares.

[Velorath]

I have a question for people that loaded saves where crew members were already dead:

During the obnoxiously wanky dream sequences, starting with the one after the genophage resolution, do the already dead companions have lines? Because it felt to me, as I was jogging and thinking how stupid this was, chasing a child I do not give a fuck about while hearing the voice of someone I DID give a fuck about, like there were some weird awkward gaps and random repeats of Nameless Voices calling Shepard's name. I am just curious if those voices were filler, as it seemed like the more of my actual friends died, the more variation in the WHISPERY NIGHTMARE VOICES I got. I'm just curious if it's locked in or if it takes that shit into account, I guess.

I sacrificed the Quarrians to give the Geth true sentience. During the last sequence, I clearly heard Tali's last words that she said before she jumped off the cliff.

And I finished the game tonight. I'll reiterate that I hate the ME cover system, and the last fight at the missile trucks drove that home. I had to turn the difficulty down to Narrative for just that fight, because I kept getting sucked into cover instead of reviving a fallen teammate, or humping cover while a banshee humped my ass. Fucking terrible.

The ending... I didn't hate it, but neither did I love it either. Everything up to the magical Reaper child was fine, and then I was given two color coded endings. I picked blue, out of not wanting to kill the Geth, whom I had sided with, reluctantly, over the Quarrians. And fuck mister knowitall Catalyst. Who is he to judge the races ability to get along with their creations? Whether they do or not, it isn't his place to decide. If not for the fallout, I would have nuked him and his stupid Reapers.

And the jungle planet and snowy old man scenes seemed really trite. Like they were trying to come across as Deep, and hit Derp instead.

3 star ending to a 4.5 star game series. Not completely disappointed. Just a little disappointed.

His spiel is even more annoying when you have gotten the Geth and the Quarians to work together and get to listen to Tali rave about how the Geth are helping the quarians do in weeks what would have taken years. It's yet another reason why the lack of a "you're full of shit" dialogue option is annoying.

To be fair, it was probably only a matter of time before the Quarians fucked things up again.  In a way, they're like a much less competent version of the Salarians.

[Merusk]

Honestly in the end, Bioware doesn't have to give 3 fucks because the game has sold well so far and will make bank.

I dunno.  It's generally best if people like your games.  Obviously it won't be horrible for the sales of THIS game, and I have no idea whether it will damage their brand measurably, but it certainly isn't true in general that it doesn't matter whether people end up liking your games.

That assumes they won't be absorbed or restructured in to oblivion anyway, which won't happen so long as they continue to post profits.  This was rushed because it needed to come out, that much is obvious from what I'm reading.  It HAD to come out now because there needed to be a SP release this year.

 They don't have the kind of franchises that can be exploited annually, like DICE or Maxis but they have a few that can be cycled.  So this year it's ME3 and its DLC.  Next year we'll see DA3 and its DLC. After that a TOR xpac and either another ME game or a new one from an old franchise. 

Let's not forget that all this hubbub is on gaming websites and we aren't the majority of the market anymore.  We're the nice group bitching about something the majority just might not give two fucks about.

[Maledict]

Between this and DA2. I think they are losing a lot of fans. I know I'm no longer going to be interested in their stuff on the first day because of the let downs over the last few years, and I'm clearly not the only one. Word of mouth *does* hit the bottom line in the long run (look at how DA2  sales plummeted despite all those glowing reviews), and this sort of stuff will impact on them.

It's a shame because they came *so* close to doing something no-one else has managed in gaming with ME. The level of emotional attachment and investment I had in those characters is second to nothing. Instead, the shitty ending has actually made me unwilling to even go back and play the earlier games. Knowing what i am working towards and the fact that none of it matters removes the fun of the journey. They have really poisoned the well for a lot of people it seems.

In the long run, as you y, they'll end up being restructured and effectively killed off, and then hopefully someone else will pick up the baton for westernRPGs. Skyrim was great, but there's needs to be someone out the making games like ME.

[Velorath]

Honestly in the end, Bioware doesn't have to give 3 fucks because the game has sold well so far and will make bank.

I dunno.  It's generally best if people like your games.  Obviously it won't be horrible for the sales of THIS game, and I have no idea whether it will damage their brand measurably, but it certainly isn't true in general that it doesn't matter whether people end up liking your games.

That assumes they won't be absorbed or restructured in to oblivion anyway, which won't happen so long as they continue to post profits.  This was rushed because it needed to come out, that much is obvious from what I'm reading.  It HAD to come out now because there needed to be a SP release this year.

 They don't have the kind of franchises that can be exploited annually, like DICE or Maxis but they have a few that can be cycled.  So this year it's ME3 and its DLC.  Next year we'll see DA3 and its DLC. After that a TOR xpac and either another ME game or a new one from an old franchise. 

Let's not forget that all this hubbub is on gaming websites and we aren't the majority of the market anymore.  We're the nice group bitching about something the majority just might not give two fucks about.

I don't think the issues with the end are a matter of the game being rushed.  A lot of people seem to agree that the rest of the game is amazing, so it's not like the product as a whole is a rush job.  Maybe it's just Stephen King syndrome where they had great buildup and shit payoff, or maybe it's because whatever they wanted to do next with the franchise required them to leave things the way they are with the endings we got.  This isn't something that would have been avoided with more time to work on the game.

[Margalis]

The fact that the three endings are basically the same with some recoloring certainly says to me that time/budget became an issue. That's something you do to save on resources, not because someone thinks it's a genuinely good idea.

They probably had to free up people to work on the DLC. 

[Merusk]

Margalis echoed my thoughts on it and why I suspected a rush job.

It certainly would be a better reason than "no, really, even though the series is based around choices we really WANTED to railroad you down this singular path to a singular ending, ignoring everything you'd done previously."

[Paelos]

Honestly in the end, Bioware doesn't have to give 3 fucks because the game has sold well so far and will make bank.

Tbh, my thinking was more along the old lines of shearing a sheep and killing a sheep.

[ajax34i]

The fact that the three endings are basically the same with some recoloring certainly says to me that time/budget became an issue.

Do developers code a game in the order it is played?  I know movie-makers don't necessarily film the scenes in the order they will appear in the film, so when the budget runs out it's not always the ending that has a quality drop.

I haven't played the game yet (I am sticking to my "wait for a few months / patch" rule after being annoyed by the bugs with SWTOR), but IMO internet rage won't affect their sales figures for this game, much.  I do think that ME3 rage will affect their return-to-SWTOR numbers, and if they're thinking of making a ME MMO, that'll be affected as well.

[Riggswolfe]

Well, they have posted a topic on the forums now called On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening. It was posted by Chris Priestly.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9992961

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

[luckton]

http://youtu.be/rPelM2hwhJA

All 6 endings in sync with each other.

Also, I watched the full "Bad Destroy" ending...apparently that one still has the Normady crashing on a planet, but nobody survived the impact.

[Fabricated]

Honestly in the end, Bioware doesn't have to give 3 fucks because the game has sold well so far and will make bank.

Tbh, my thinking was more along the old lines of shearing a sheep and killing a sheep.

Gamers are the beaten wives of the entertainment industry.

[koro]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.me3finalhours.com/

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers

"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

And from what appear to be his notes:


"End of First Matrix" 

[Abelian75]

Amusingly, I was just in Target and happened to pass by a couple in the electronics section.  The guy pointed at ME3 and was like, "Heh, guess I'm never buying that after hearing Tim rant about it."  I chuckled quietly to myself.

[Fabricated]

I'd say that ME3's ending is worse than the third Matrix movie's ending. The first Matrix had a pretty cool ending.

[Jeff Kelly]

I assumed that the Emo Cyborg Ninja storyline couldn't get any sillier but then came the Cerberus base boss fight...

After being killblocked by two previous rogue cut scenes they wouldn't even let me kill him myself. I had to use a friggin' renegade interrupt in yet another cut scene. Since the renegade interrupt didn't involve hin getting mauled by an army of bears while I dance on his broken bones, merely watching him get sliced was a slight letdown.

Also the IL scene at the end is the only time you have to take a renegade interrupt or you die. They even throw rheir game mechanics under the bus at the end...

[MournelitheCalix]

Now we know that this Star child shit was the way EAware decided to end things .  This is a fucking disaster.  See this thread and despair those of you who thought this might be an indoctrination theory:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272


I have no words other than bile again.  I can't believe Casey Hudson is this big of an idiot that he believed this was a good way to end things.

Edited Note:  EAware decided to do damage control the guy posted Mac Walter's flow charts on the ending.  They sent the Priestly minion to claim it was intellectual property rights violations.

[Rokal]

Also the IL scene at the end is the only time you have to take a renegade interrupt or you die. They even throw rheir game mechanics under the bus at the end...

I'm pretty sure if you don't renegade interrupt him, he shoots Anderson and then himself. Shepard is never in danger himself during the IL scene. With the dumb cyborg ninja, I'm not sure what would happen if you didn't renegade interrupt his sword attack. Maybe a squadmate shoots him instead, or maybe he just collapses.

[Maledict]

Yeah, the first Matrix had an excellent ending, not sure how they possibly think ME3 is in any way like that. And if they were aiming for the third Matrix - why would ANYONE want to go near a film that's near universally reviled?

From what I can read of the notes and comments, it seems the long and short of it is the ending was deliberately shit because "KEEP PEOPLE GUESSING". Rather than give people closure and a decent ending after 5 years, they wanted people to keep talking. Unfortunately, rather than talking they just got a wall of rage because this is not how you end stories. Seriously, do they not know the basic rules of the genre they are working in and storytelling?

Like I said earlier though - they are poisoning the well. Deliberately fucking people over to "keep them talking" is such a stupid thing to do after 5 years, it just kills any interest I have in DLC or the next game stone dead. Christ, I even paid for all the alternate outfit DLCs in ME2 I'm that much of a ME whore!

[MournelitheCalix]

More from the Priestly Minion ROFLMAO they shut down the forum!

I have shut off posting to this ENTIRE forum so people see this response.

The rules here WILL be obeyed. We do not allow swearing or the swearing or abuse of staff or moderators here. Anyone seen doing this will be banned from this site.

The app that has caused this controversy IS NOT FROM BIOWARE. Stop yelling at us for making and charging you for an app. We did not make this it was done by Geoff Keighley. When I reopen this forum you are welcome to discuss the content in teh app in a rational manner.

I cannot comment on it as I have not downloaded or seen the app yet.

This forum will reopn soon once everyone has seen this.
[\quote]

[Ingmar]

Good for them. The bad behavior was getting ludicrous.

[Maledict]

I love the fact they blame the app and not the fucking atrocious contempt Bioware show for their fans in the app. Mind you swearing directly at people doesn't help in official forums and will always get you moded, but I can understand peoples rage when they see the ending to a 5 year story was scribbled on a piece of paper and deliberately fucked up "because".

Seriously, who on earth does a 5 year game story and deliberately ends it knowing it will piss people off?

(Clearly people who don't want me to ever buy from them again is the answer).

[Ingmar]

Given that the post quoted is in the thread about the app, I don't see what the confusion is about. People were getting really ugly over the fact that they thought Bioware was charging them $3 for an app that they had nothing to do with.

EDIT: Well, I guess not NOTHING to do with since they presumably gave the guy access for the interviews etc.

[Maledict]

Given that the post quoted is in the thread about the app, I don't see what the confusion is about. People were getting really ugly over the fact that they thought Bioware was charging them $3 for an app that they had nothing to do with.

Then fair enough - that's just bloody dumb. all I've seen is rage over what the app revealed. I'm way past accepting that you have to pay through the nose for apps like this... :)

[MournelitheCalix]

I love the fact they blame the app and not the fucking atrocious contempt Bioware show for their fans in the app. Mind you swearing directly at people doesn't help in official forums and will always get you moded, but I can understand peoples rage when they see the ending to a 5 year story was scribbled on a piece of paper and deliberately fucked up "because".

QFT.  You reap what you sow.  EAware is reaping the shitstorm now for turning their back on what got them to be bought out for what was it 800+ million wasn't it?  Instead of coming out and saying hey we fucked up and were going to fix it, they chose the silent treatment.  See how well that has worked???  Well little revelations like this and saying "were listening" isn't going to work either.  Its in fact damaging the Bioware brand.

They need to stop sitting on their hands.  They need to stop sending Priestly and Woo out there to damage control by censor.  They need to go to their fans and state that we know your upset, this isn't everything, and we will fix it in the manner that is true to the series so far.  Your choice will return.

That would end this.  This kind of action would in my opinion be lauded for I think most people think it takes courage to admit when your wrong.  I know I would respect the hell out of that kind of statement instead of the were going to close the forums because your angry and we are refusing to accept our part in your anger at being baited into a choice game and switched to the starchild inevitability.