Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Mazakiel]

It's my understanding that, if certain characters were not loyal at the end of ME 2 but managed to live, there are spots where they will die in ME 3. 

As an example, when Grunt did his 'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' during the Rachni mission, I figured I'd just lost him, until he limped to the shuttle at the end.  Some searching later indicates that if he wasn't loyal, he wouldn't have made it out of there alive. 

Then some characters will die no matter if they were loyal or not.  Poor Mordin. 

[Simond]

http://retakemasseffect.chipin.com/retake-mass-effect-childs-play

Just under forty thousand dollars and climbing.

[jakonovski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIimukNeAE

 

[koro]

Hmm, interesting! Maybe she needed to be flagged as loyal from ME2 also.

Apparently you also have to read certain emails more than once. I read what you have to do to keep her alive and it's kind of weirdly convoluted.

[Velorath]

http://retakemasseffect.chipin.com/retake-mass-effect-childs-play

Just under forty thousand dollars and climbing.

I'm not sure "give us a new ending or we'll keep donating money to charity" is an effective message.

[Fordel]

Here, this is how you cope with the bad ending.

Spoilered for size and not to hide info, unlike some other people who've clearly either missed the warning or don't give a fuck  

Edit:  Also:

 

Shepard is a bodytype 2 you nubbin!

[LK]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/bioware-responds-to-mass-effect-3-criticisms-6366168

Talking to Digital Trends, Hudson explained that the way in which Mass Effect 3 ended was intentionally designed to get gamers talking."

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the endings have had with people--debating what the endings mean, and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in," he said.

This statement angers me. Gamers are talking alright, but not in the way I think he intended or how he thinks it is. Mr. Hudson's assessment of what the debate is about appears to not match with what the debate actually is about. The criticism appears to me to be how the endings were implemented in a fashion that wasn't true or faithful to the game series on both a plot (thematic) and technical design. The statement reeks of bullshit.

Further... it's a debate? Is someone arguing FOR the endings? Who's "debating" the other side?

[Maledict]

Across all the forums there's probably 10 people tops I've seen arguing for the endings, and that includes neogaf which is spawning new pages in it's thread faster than I could actually read them at one point.

Exactly as you say - people aren't arguing over the meaning of the ending, or debating the choices made. They are all shit. They completely go against the theme and structure of the game, and to have the ending of a 5 year series happen like that is really dissapointing. More than dissapointing - I honestly think Mass effect did something no other game has done with the level of emotional investment I ended up having with the game (to my own surprise) and then it blew it all).

[koro]

The only people I've seen discussing the "other side" have been people who are trying to come up with some sort of rationalization or justification for the way the endings work in order to just have it make some kind of sense. I haven't seen anyone who's actually argued in favor of them.

If Casey would sit down and actually discuss the endings with someone somewhere without being a smug asshole with his coy DLC talk then people may just be inclined to give him and his team a little leeway.

[LK]

If Casey would sit down and actually discuss the endings with someone somewhere without being a smug asshole with his coy DLC talk then people may just be inclined to give him and his team a little leeway.

That would be nice and a developer, acting independently, may eventually do that in some post-mortem at a game conference with a "Lessons Learned" format, but I can't see a Bioware representative talking frankly about the product in public channels or while emotions are running high in the hardcore. That could damage the business.

The current narrative includes that they made promises or statements that were outright lies to generate hype (look at their pre-launch marketing campaign! Those are Halo 3 levels of emotional manipulation and expectation generation). So trust between company and fans is compromised right now.

[Sjofn]

Hmm, interesting! Maybe she needed to be flagged as loyal from ME2 also.

Apparently you also have to read certain emails more than once. I read what you have to do to keep her alive and it's kind of weirdly convoluted.

That might just be weird internet superstitious voodoo, I'm pretty sure I didn't read any emails more than once, and she lived in my playthrough.

[Simond]

The only people I've seen discussing the "other side" have been people who are trying to come up with some sort of rationalization or justification for the way the endings work in order to just have it make some kind of sense. I haven't seen anyone who's actually argued in favor of them.

Hell, even the people who liked DA2 are upset. 

In all seriousness, I've seen a tiny handful of actual players say "Yes, I liked this ending". Oh, and most of the gaming news websites. It's almost like they have to be nice to EA or they won't get their kickbacks, or something.

[Sjofn]

Yeah I've seen a handful of people say they liked the ending, but even a lot of those people go on the clarify that they mostly mean the ending wasn't a crime against humanity. Which is reasonable enough.

[Riggswolfe]

So here is a forum post that compiles the theories about why the ending is most likely an attempt at indoctrination complete with screen shots and such.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

[Sjofn]

The shitty ending is almost worth it to see the acrobatics people will do to rationalize it away into something that makes some shred of sense.

[Ratman_tf]

It's my understanding that, if certain characters were not loyal at the end of ME 2 but managed to live, there are spots where they will die in ME 3. 

As an example, when Grunt did his 'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' during the Rachni mission, I figured I'd just lost him, until he limped to the shuttle at the end.  Some searching later indicates that if he wasn't loyal, he wouldn't have made it out of there alive. 

Then some characters will die no matter if they were loyal or not.  Poor Mordin. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL2FIUi57Jw 

[Fabricated]

The texts from Kaidan/Ashley ARE pretty weird, but the rest is a fucking stretch.

[Ratman_tf]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/bioware-responds-to-mass-effect-3-criticisms-6366168

Talking to Digital Trends, Hudson explained that the way in which Mass Effect 3 ended was intentionally designed to get gamers talking."

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the endings have had with people--debating what the endings mean, and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in," he said.

This statement angers me. Gamers are talking alright, but not in the way I think he intended or how he thinks it is. Mr. Hudson's assessment of what the debate is about appears to not match with what the debate actually is about. The criticism appears to me to be how the endings were implemented in a fashion that wasn't true or faithful to the game series on both a plot (thematic) and technical design. The statement reeks of bullshit.

Further... it's a debate? Is someone arguing FOR the endings? Who's "debating" the other side?

Nothing's 100%, but I think he got what he wanted. The fans are nearly universeally polarized against Bioware. 

[Fabricated]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/bioware-responds-to-mass-effect-3-criticisms-6366168

Talking to Digital Trends, Hudson explained that the way in which Mass Effect 3 ended was intentionally designed to get gamers talking."

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the endings have had with people--debating what the endings mean, and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in," he said.

This statement angers me. Gamers are talking alright, but not in the way I think he intended or how he thinks it is. Mr. Hudson's assessment of what the debate is about appears to not match with what the debate actually is about. The criticism appears to me to be how the endings were implemented in a fashion that wasn't true or faithful to the game series on both a plot (thematic) and technical design. The statement reeks of bullshit.

Further... it's a debate? Is someone arguing FOR the endings? Who's "debating" the other side?

Nothing's 100%, but I think he got what he wanted. The fans are nearly universeally polarized against Bioware. 

Penny Arcade is carrying Bioware's water.

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-ending-spoiler-warning
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/why-the-ending-of-mass-effect-3-was-satifying-and-worthy-of-the-series-mass

[Mazakiel]

Huh.  Guess I was wrong.  Course, that being said, I still prefer what all happened in my Shep's play-through, even if Mordin died.  It was a good death.  

I'm guessing Wreave is who leads the krogan if Wrex died?  

[Ingmar]

Most likely, he is the Urdnot leader in ME2 if Wrex is dead from ME1.

[Simond]

We need a :spittake: emote.

Also:

People are upset with Bioware. This isn't "Let's get a buzz going, get people talking about a game", this is what's going to be taught in basic How To Run A Game Studio class as "Okay class, this is what is typically known as the 'Bioware lesson'".

[luckton]

It's my understanding that, if certain characters were not loyal at the end of ME 2 but managed to live, there are spots where they will die in ME 3. 

As an example, when Grunt did his 'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' during the Rachni mission, I figured I'd just lost him, until he limped to the shuttle at the end.  Some searching later indicates that if he wasn't loyal, he wouldn't have made it out of there alive. 

Then some characters will die no matter if they were loyal or not.  Poor Mordin. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL2FIUi57Jw 

Give it another week or so.  I'm sure someone will find the right sequence that allows you to have both Wrex and Mordin alive.

[Ratman_tf]

We need a :spittake: emote.

[Ratman_tf]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/bioware-responds-to-mass-effect-3-criticisms-6366168

Talking to Digital Trends, Hudson explained that the way in which Mass Effect 3 ended was intentionally designed to get gamers talking."

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the endings have had with people--debating what the endings mean, and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in," he said.

This statement angers me. Gamers are talking alright, but not in the way I think he intended or how he thinks it is. Mr. Hudson's assessment of what the debate is about appears to not match with what the debate actually is about. The criticism appears to me to be how the endings were implemented in a fashion that wasn't true or faithful to the game series on both a plot (thematic) and technical design. The statement reeks of bullshit.

Further... it's a debate? Is someone arguing FOR the endings? Who's "debating" the other side?

Nothing's 100%, but I think he got what he wanted. The fans are nearly universeally polarized against Bioware. 

Penny Arcade is carrying Bioware's water.

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-ending-spoiler-warning
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/why-the-ending-of-mass-effect-3-was-satifying-and-worthy-of-the-series-mass

Notably, even those who like the ending seems rather mellow about it. "satisfying and worthy of the experience" indeed, pass the tea old chap.

I'm sure someone out there has said it, but at this time I have yet to hear anyone say that the ending was superb, above par, noteworthy, praiseworthy, kick-ass, etc...

[Lakov_Sanite]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/bioware-responds-to-mass-effect-3-criticisms-6366168

Talking to Digital Trends, Hudson explained that the way in which Mass Effect 3 ended was intentionally designed to get gamers talking."

"I didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the endings have had with people--debating what the endings mean, and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in," he said.

This statement angers me. Gamers are talking alright, but not in the way I think he intended or how he thinks it is. Mr. Hudson's assessment of what the debate is about appears to not match with what the debate actually is about. The criticism appears to me to be how the endings were implemented in a fashion that wasn't true or faithful to the game series on both a plot (thematic) and technical design. The statement reeks of bullshit.

Further... it's a debate? Is someone arguing FOR the endings? Who's "debating" the other side?

Nothing's 100%, but I think he got what he wanted. The fans are nearly universeally polarized against Bioware. 

Penny Arcade is carrying Bioware's water.

http://penny-arcade.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-ending-spoiler-warning
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/why-the-ending-of-mass-effect-3-was-satifying-and-worthy-of-the-series-mass

PA has been creating content for bioware for a while now, color me not surprised.

[Merusk]

Re: Penny Arcade:

You don't shit where you eat.

http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/info/pennyarcade/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/01/25/biowares-chris-priestly
http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/info/pennyarcade/redeem/
http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2012/02/penny-arcade-report-interviews-bioware.html

So, yeah, not shocking.  They're business men first.

ed: Lak beat me to it.

[Sir T]

Reading this I'm pretty sure they are working on a new ending DLC as we speak as they will think that all the rationalisation = $$$$ from desperate gamers.

As for me I spent some of the $$$ I would have spent on the game on the book guide for Skyrm. Also I actually started a ME 1 playthrough a few weeks back as the female shep just for nostalgia. Amazingly I sensed some emotion occasionally in Sheps voice acting. Its not quite as good as I remember it. For one thing you spend a huge amount of time flying elevetors.

[Abelian75]

Notably, even those who like the ending seems rather mellow about it. "satisfying and worthy of the experience" indeed, pass the tea old chap.

Even more notably, I've seen a few instances now of someone posting something like, "I thought it was ok, what's the big deal?", arguing for awhile, and eventually being like, "Wait, yeah, that is really stupid."

[Miasma]

That color blind thing was great.  I don't normally like the yo dawgs but...

[Fabricated]

Honestly in the end, Bioware doesn't have to give 3 fucks because the game has sold well so far and will make bank.

[Abelian75]

Honestly in the end, Bioware doesn't have to give 3 fucks because the game has sold well so far and will make bank.

I dunno.  It's generally best if people like your games.  Obviously it won't be horrible for the sales of THIS game, and I have no idea whether it will damage their brand measurably, but it certainly isn't true in general that it doesn't matter whether people end up liking your games.

[Sjofn]

I think the saddest thing is that the ending is what people are talking most about, and it's almost uniformly "holy shit, what?" And nearly every rant about the game starts out with "I loved it until..." There are a ton of satisfying, moving, whatever moments in the game, but they all get essentially forgotten because the shitty ending is just that shitty.


And I could buy the "ALL of ME3 is the ending" argument if they didn't pull the rug out from under everything ME3 had been building to. You had a sense of what everyone was going to do after this war was over (do the massive amount of rebuilding that was ALREADY going to be needed in various ways, have babies with your replacement fuck you so hard Jacob, kill oneself, etc). And then they utterly destroy that, because "lolrelays." So you MIGHT'VE had a good sense of closure with everyone without it all being spelled out, except haha, nevermind, the galaxy is ruined. Rocks fall, everyone dies teleports to the Normandy in order to crash somewhere random.

[Rokal]

Players being disappointed with one part of your game rather than all of it is progress for Bioware.  

I will say that the problems I had with the ME3 endings are exactly the same as the problems I had with the DA2 endings. Your choices don't end up having any real impact because they needed everyone's universe to be in the same state for the next ME. You can tell that the story suffered in both games to meet business goals. The problems with the ME3 ending are just more frustrating because it was an otherwise fantastic game, and it was an ending 5 years and 3 games in the making.

[Miasma]

I don't think I'm one of those hysterical gamers who start foaming at the mouth and get all nerd ragey about things like this, it's more that I'm supremely disappointed.  Even with all the crap other companies have done over the years with broken games, terrible DRM, delays, billing debacles and so on I've never consciously said to myself 'okay I'm never buying anything from them again'.

I have with bioware and EA though, mostly because bioware was one of the few companies who deserved a pedestal to stand on so I expected better of them than lies, screwing me over every time I didn't have an ME2 import, that bullshit ending and the terrible way they've defended the ending.  It's uninstalled, so is Origin, so is swtor and I will just calmly decline to buy anything from them ever again.  I know they are far too big to ever notice losing one fan/customer but it isn't about them anymore, it's about me, and I can't do this anymore.

Edit: Okay I've calmed down now and I don't care anymore.  I went through ME1 and ME2 again and ME3 is radically better with a proper save game.  The ending, of course, is still a nonsensical failure pit of dissapointment.