Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Jeff Kelly]

Not necessarily. The thing is that FTL isn't just "really really fast," it is impossible by our current knowledge of physics, and if it was possible, it would probably involve objects and interactions very different from what we see in garden variety Newtonian physics.

I once read a forum post where someone tried to calculate the effects of an FTL collision. He wasn't able to figure it out, simply because of how weird the math gets when you input velocity values greater than C into Einstein's relativity equations. For instance, in General Relativity, the mass of an object traveling faster than the speed of light isn't a negative number, it's an imaginary number. As in, the square root of a negative number. It's really hard to imagine how such a thing would interact with STL objects with a positive amount of mass.

The "simple" explanation is that Einstein's equations concerning special relativity are also solvable for v > c. That's simply because of the way the underlying mathematics work.

The real equation for the relationship between mass and energy is not E = mc^2 it's

E  = (mc^2) / sqrt(1 - (v^2/c^2)).  It's derived from the energy-momentum relation and means that the total energy of a system has two contributing factors; The energy contribution from its mass content ("at rest" i.e. the factor that is independent of movement and velocity) and the energy contribution from its kinetic or potential energy.

This equation allows solutions for v < c since at v = c the denominator becomes 0. This directly shows that something that has mass > 0 can't travel at the speed of light because of the division by zero that would then occur. ( sqrt(1-1) = sqrt(0) = 0)

The equation also allows solutions if v > c though. In that case the term inside the square root becomes negative and so the denominator is a complex number. Energy is defnied to be a scalar though so the numerator must also be a complex number. Since c is also defined to be a scalar the only way this could work is if the mass is a complex number.

This is just a mathematical oddity though that has no real consequences.

If tachyons existed (which they do not) then the way the equations work this would also mean that that "imaginary" particle must always travel faster than light, that its energy would increase the slower it travels and it would also mean that the particle would have to travel back in time. (For v < c the time component of "spacetime" is > 0; at c it's 0 and at velocities above c it would need to be < 0).

[Ingmar]

I want like, a paperback version of this thread to read on the toilet. I'm like 20 pages behind but the highs and lows of this thread seem like good reading.

I should warn you some new characters get introduced at the end that are pretty terrible.

[Bunk]

Heh, personally I thought he was someone's chatbot.

[Venkman]

Five pages of tanks vs mechs without actual tanks and mechs (though Ratman did sneak in an Abrams...)

[Morat20]

I believe the practical upshot of all this is: Either Einstein is wrong, or Einstein is right and FTL is also a time machine, or Einstein is right and you need to learn to love ramscoops and time dilation.

Although there IS a single FTL drive concept that doesn't violate Einstein and I believe doesn't travel in time. It is, in fact, a warp drive. :) I think it's called an Albeccurie drive -- and the energy requirements are insane. Although it's gone from "the entire energy content of the universe" to "the entire energy content of a planet". The downside -- you can't steer, they're pretty sure you can't stop, and it's gonna get weird where the front edge of the warp bubble hits, well, anything. on the bright side? You don't get turned to jelly when it turns on. You don't move at all. The bubble of space-time around you does...

I suspect that Einstein is perfectly correct as far as it goes, in exactly the same way Newton was perfectly correct as far as he went. How Einstein is wrong is something something quantum something, which just goes to basically show the nuts and bolts of the universe (which is the stuff below the atomic level) is just plain effing weird.

I think physicists were all a bit disappointed that the Higgs bosun ended up being more or less one of the primary possibilities. Something weird would have shook things up, and things are pretty stagnant right now. Everything they're working on -- string theory, m-theory, all that? Not really testable at the moment. Once it is, maybe someone can extrapolate some macro-scale things you can do with it...

Back to mass effect -- started up my playthrough where I saved Ashley -- and WTF? Was there some sort of accident involving fire, a great deal of plastic surgery, and a drunk doctor who thought "Fix the mostly dead, burnt husk of a soldier" meant "Make a bimbo. Model her after that Lawson chick, but not quite so Australian."

I mean the models for everyone changed, but I flat out didn't recognize her. At all.

[Sjofn]

SEE? New Ashley is an abomination.

[Morat20]

SEE? New Ashley is an abomination.

These was a dispute over this? She looks like vaguely ethnic Barbie. Like someone wanted to make a hispanic barbie, but whiter.

So far, she's the only totally unrecognizable character. For no apparent reason.

[Sjofn]

I've seen people elsewhere (not here, I don't think) act like it's either not that big a deal or an improvement, but it's like ... man, she just looks so completely wrong.

[Jeff Kelly]

I always wondered, what's with Ashley's arms? Is that a very unfortunate looking armor or does she have cybernetic limbs? Shr looks like a sexy robot that wears a human head.

[Nayr]

I always wondered, what's with Ashley's arms? Is that a very unfortunate looking armor or does she have cybernetic limbs? Shr looks like a sexy robot that wears a human head.

I remember someone asking that on BSN once. But it's easily answered.

There are no cybernetic limbs in Mass Effect. They clone limbs to replace lost ones.

Besides, she's half naked once in ME3. And the weird sleeves are not there.

[Nayr]

SEE? New Ashley is an abomination.

These was a dispute over this? She looks like vaguely ethnic Barbie. Like someone wanted to make a hispanic barbie, but whiter.

So far, she's the only totally unrecognizable character. For no apparent reason.

It's not often that I'm made to eat my own words. I've used the word "Latin Barbie" for her myself. But this might change a few opinions.

On the top of the image is Ashley's faces from ME1 and ME3 side by side. You'll notice that while her skin tone and complexion and hair are different, her facial definition is more or less the same.

Down on the bottom right side is the 3D model of ME3 Ash with a bun(what she wears in ME1) and you'll see that fixes her look a whole lot.

And to the left of the model is a picture of Erica Cerra, the actress used as the face model for Ashley. And you can see her skin tones are closer to ME3 Ashley than ME1. Implying that ME1's is actually incorrect and Ashley was literally whitewashed.




So the logical conclusion is that, aside from the breast implants, they were apparently trying to make Ashley more closely resemble the actress she was modeled upon.

[Morat20]

Great explanation, but I'm afraid my brain went "Where have I seen her before". (Answer: Eureka).

Anyhoo -- should have stuck with the ME1/ME2 look, simply because players except to see Ashley not, you know, what came out.

Interestingly enough, the ME1 pic looked more like an actual person than ME3.

[Fordel]

Those are not the same faces.

The chin, cheeks, brow ridge, even the jaw line.

[Trippy]

Sharp knees.

[Lantyssa]

And nose.  Totally different nose.

Also a lot of botox, or lye.

[Sjofn]

QUACK

[Stormwaltz]

We can debate details all day, but let's cut to the chase and talk about artistic intent.

ME1 Ashley was interpreted as a soldier who was attractive. ME3 Ashley was interpreted a sex object who carried a gun.

Compare the iconic appearances of her in the two games. Look at the how prominent the eyeshadow and lip gloss become. Look at how she goes from light contoured armor to something that suggests a "little black dress" and shows off her posterior. Look at how her hair goes from a combat-sensible bun to an in-your-eyes glam cut.

[Sjofn]

As much as I harp on the duck lips, it really is the hair that pisses me off most. It is SO not-Ashley. It is the biggest signal of HOT CHICK FIRST, SOLDIER LAST for me.

[Ingmar]

It's basically indefensible.

[Nayr]

ME1 Ashley was interpreted as a soldier who was attractive. ME3 Ashley was interpreted a sex object who carried a gun.

I think they might have sexed her up to compensate for the egregious character-assassination she received(I guess whoever took over writing her was counting on people judging Ashley with their eyes and not their ears). For over half of ME3, she's worse than she was on Horizon. With Horiizon, it's understandable. She's shocked, hurt, etc. But in ME3, she's suspicious, contemptuous, and cannot just get the fuck over Cerberus(she was condemning Shepard WHILE being tricked into helping Cerberus herself) 

Yeah, personality wise, Ashley was definitely better when you were writing for her. Shame on you for leaving Bioware! :p

Appearance wise, when they decided to base her look on Erica Cerra, they should have been more accurate right from the get-go. And the most obscene inaccuracy is in ME3 itself when they show her with her sister, Sarah. Sarah looks like she would be related to ME1-White-Ashley. They could have at least used a darker skin tone and black hair, rather than pale white skin and , IIRC, red hair.

Also people: regarding differences between ME1 and ME3 versions. I scaled the images equally(as you can see), then I overlayed one on top of the other and continuously flipped he layers to see how the image changed.

It barely did. The face is slightly wider and the brows and eyelashes are different(which can be done to a person IRL with makeup and a pair of tweezers), there are no differences beyond the skin tone and the enhanced skin graphics and lighting of ME3. The shape of the eyes, lips, nose, cheekbones, and chin, and the orientation of her facial features, is exactly the same.

You could argue that Ashley looks more unique(probably face-scanned Erica Cerra like they did Yvonne Strahovski for Miranda) as compared to her ME1, which looks like it was made with the character creator that the player uses to sculpt their Shepard.

[Fordel]

Get a thicker prescription for those glasses.

[Ingmar]

"Egregious character-assassination" I think means we're one step away from discussing Tali sweat here.

I'm also not sure how turning her into a blow-up doll is supposed to 'compensate' for anything.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, if anyone had their character assassinated, it was Jacob. 

[Tannhauser]

Jacob had character?  Or is that the joke?

[Fordel]

Stand up reliable man is totally a character. Just a boring one.

[Lantyssa]

Get a thicker prescription for those glasses.

Or three rounds of lasik.  The new design doesn't even look 'more' like the real model.  May have been their intent, but she still doesn't look much like her.

[Sjofn]

Stand up reliable man is totally a character. Just a boring one.

Yep.

[TNG3]

I overlayed the images in Paint Shop Pro like Nayr did, and I think he's right. They've completely changed the skin texture, and maybe tweaked some minor things, but the facial features seem to have the same general shape.

However, it's pretty hard to tell with these images side by side, because they have completely different lighting. Also, I'm sure that by ME3, the lighting and shaders have been massively changed/rewritten from what they were in ME1, which is going to change the way that everything looks. I think ME2 to ME3 was a particularly jarring transition. I started in ME2, and the whole time I was playing ME3, my imported Shepard never quite looked like "herself," even though I could tell that she objectively had the same face.

[Tarami]

Tali sweat

Oh dear. Proof God doesn't exist; if he did, he would have destroyed us for this.

[TNG3]

"It just smells like sweat. Why would you even ask that?"

-Drunk Tali during the Citadel DLC Party

[Nayr]

Get a thicker prescription for those glasses.

Or three rounds of lasik.  The new design doesn't even look 'more' like the real model.  May have been their intent, but she still doesn't look much like her.

I'll have you both know that I had my prescription updated only a year ago and I can see fine.

Also face scans are never perfect to the likeness. They always look fatter-wider and are limited to the technology used.

I noticed Jacob's face model, Kenyon Glover. Doesn't look as wide as Jacob himself. And Diana Allers; Jessica Chobot's does not have those chipmunk cheeks.

You know, that gets me onto something. I've never seen a complete list of face models for the humanoid cast of Mass Effect, not even on the Wikia. Obviously some lesser characters(Chakwas, Ken, Gabby, Kelly, Cortez, Traynor, etc) are just made using the character creator, but a lot of the others seems to be face scanned from real life people

I'll get started.

Shepard(Male) = Mark Vanderloo
Shepard(Female) = Unknown(Looks kinda like a young Katey Segal to me(Peg Bundy)

Ashley Williams = Erica Cerra
Kaidan Alenko = Luciano Costa (Google and you'll see)
Liara T'Soni = Jillian Murray
Tali'Zorah = Hammasa Kohistani(I said a Complete list. So like or not, it includes Tali's not-jarjar face)
Jeff "Joker" Moreau = Unknown(Some could argue he looks like Seth Green, but he also looks characer-creatorey)

David Anderson =
Steven Hackett =

The Illusive Man = Jon Briddell
Miranda Lawson = Yvonne Strahovski
Jacob Taylor = Kenyon Glover
Jack = Unknown (though it has been stated that she resembles Megan Fox. At least in the face.)
Samara = Rana McAnear

Aria T'Loak = Unknown

James Vega = Jamal Kazak (google it)
Diana Allers = Jessica Chobot (Raises anti-flame shield)
Garret Bryson = Unknown
Ann Bryson = Unknown
Maya Brooks = Unknown

Anybody who knows something I don't is free to repost the list and add to it.


@TNG3: Of course I'm right. :p

[Nayr]

"It just smells like sweat. Why would you even ask that?"

-Drunk Tali during the Citadel DLC Party

Okay, I gotta know.

How the mother freaking fuck does Tali's sweat come up in conversation?

[TNG3]

It doesn't. Tali just says that while she's sitting on the bathroom floor talking to herself. Watch here.

[Ratman_tf]

Aw yeah. I wanna fuck those huge creases on her knees.

*humpa humpa humpa*

[Jeff Kelly]

If Bioware ever needs money quick, they just could release a ME 3 dlc pack that either completely eradicates Kai Leng from the story or better gives me a mission where I can kill him in the most prolongued and painful way possible. I at least would pay top dollar for that.

On second thought they should just have done that instead of the expanded end and I'd be happy.

That first encounter with Kai Leng is simply one of the worst scripted scenes ever. At first he gets his ass handed to him by a terminally ill Drell while three arned-to-the-teeth supersoldiers just watch dumbfoundedly then he jumps on the hood of a frigging flying car. If I could have just flipped over the flying police car he would have dropped to his death.

Also Citadel hovercars obviously don't have airbags or any other kind of passenger protection systems.