Hunter essay

[Sky]

I thought it was a decent read, though there's nothing new in it for me (I play a hunter in wow if ya didn't know). But given the apparent bias against hunters in the game, I think everyone should give it an eyeball to see it from a (competent) hunter's viewpoint. I especially hate the group-think about hunters that leads to them being somehow 'undesirable', the type of player that approaches a game with that mindset, I'd as soon not play with anyway. But for the many who are willing to keep an open mind and just have fun playing the game, I hope it will open a couple eyes about the hunter class.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/hunter.php

Thoughts? Especially from our higher-level folks, who deal with (or have) this mindset more than I do, since I ignore it ;) I've always found it silly that hunters aren't thought of as the primary pulling class, bar none, since we have all the skills to do so. Are there really that many crappy hunters giving us a bad name, or is it just group-think garbage?

[Rasix]

For me, personally, it comes down to what you need for a tough elite quest or instance.  I group regularly with another shaman and a mage.  Most of the time we'd like a tank with real aggro control.  So, one less spot for a hunter.  Shaman also aren't really given the tools to solo or even duo heal the higher level instances or elite encounters so adding a druid or priest (preferrible) is often needed. So, one less spot for the hunter.  Oops, out of spots.   If one of us was a warrior, priest, or even druid, then perhaps the hunter gets the last spot. If we're in a rush, and no one else is available.

Reading that essay, does that douche bag really think someone wants to turn a 3 hour instance into a 5 hour with all of that setup and prep work for just one fucking pull?  A fact of life in the higher instances is that you're going to get 5 mobs a lot of the time and no fancy pulling tricks are going to save your ass.  And if you don't churn through the instance at a decent rate, you're going to be there all fucking day.   

Really, if the game had a sixth slot for parties, I'd consider getting a "puller" something of value.  But really for the instance runs and elite encounters I've been on, you primarily want aggro control, healing and sometimes (but not always needed) some crowd control (I guess hunter pets can do this, many I've seen just get mauled in instances though).  Then, adding more healing or some DPS is preferrible.  This kind of lumps additional shaman, druids, hunters, rogues, and what not into the same pool.  The thing is, I'm never really thinking, OMG I NEED A HUNTER, when I'm setting up a group.  You just feel like filler (same thing can be said of rogues and shaman to an extent).

Raids, however, a dedicated puller with "OMFG I DIDN'T SEE THAT" protection would be much preferred.  Not having to rely on the shaman remembering an ankh and perhaps fucking over a couple hours of work for 20+ odd people is probably something to have.  And it's just one spot.. out of 20 or so 

Anyhow, take some comfort in this.  The "UB0R" guild on my server does everything with hunters.  Their likely 5 man instance group is 3 hunters, a priest, and a warlock or shaman.  They've done the most shit horde side relying on just a metric shitload of hunters (more than half their entire pop are hunters).  They kind of remind of a cheeseball RTS player relying on one strat alone to win (doesn't hurt they're a bunch of untalented pricks).  I wonder if they'll even scratch Onyxwhatever with this mindset.   

[Ardent]

My hunter is only level 30, and I have never had a problem finding a group when a challenge exceeded my solo capabilities. However, I've been told by a friend who hit lvl 60 that hunter bias is prevalent among the high-level instance groups, and finding a group was tough for him. When he did get a group, he had to show them through skilled trap placement and pulling skills just how useful a good hunter can be. After a couple of runs, he actually had people sending him mail requesting his presence in instance groups.

I've solved the problem by hooking up with a great guild that doesn't discriminate against class (of course, they are an all-orc guild, so with only five classes to choose from alienating any of them wouldn't work).

[Signe]

One seed, essay!  One seed!

(Oopsies.  Sorry.  I thought this was a thread about Cheech and Chong.  My bad.)

[Sky]

What exactly do warriors have for aggro control? As a hunter, I have almost perfect control over aggro. Generate it, lose it, bounce it back and forth with the pet, etc. Hunters /are/ aggro control.

What set up and prep work? The group just stays back a few feet further, and he drops a trap before he pulls.

The more I hear about these instances, the less I want anything to do with them, no matter what class I'm playing. So I guess I'm a perfect hunter, in that light, anyway. And it seems if I can't change the mindset of someone who is an actual acquaintence, I'll not bother further. Interesting point in the essay about hunters being introduced so late into the game that most beta testers already had their tactics down...

Hunters are useless and instances pwn. May as well get used to this mindset now, dealt with it for a couple years with my 'useless' necro, too.

[El Gallo]

Hunters are nice to have along, but that article is mostly BS.  I like the diagrams where he compares a hunter pulling intelligently and a warrior pulling like a moron.  The reason the hunter won't wipe the party is because of the placement of the puller relative to the other party members, not FD.   The only thing hunter pulling brings is that freedom from ressing the puller when they fuck up a pull, which is fairly trivial.  Well, that and the ability to split linked mobs, which is a known exploit that will supposedly get fixed in the next content patch, which is expected sometime in mid-2007.  It can also get you warned/suspended.  Whereas a warrior puller brings much easier aggro control.  I have found that being the initial aggroer makes maintaining aggro in the early part of the fight much easier.

Traps are great, but work just as well with the warrior pulling.

I like hunters in my groups as a decent dps class with a pet that is useful as crowd control.  I usually run warrior (me)-shaman-priest-dps-dps.  Sometimes with a 'lok.  But I would not discriminate against a good hunter over a good rogue or a good mage for a dps slot in a typical group.  Of course, no class is pure DPS, since hunters, rogues, and mages have nice utility abilities.  Some places scream for AE, though, and that means mage/mage or mage/lok.  

A lot of the crap hunters get is the same crap necromancers got in EQ.  In EQ, a well-played necromancer was a great asset to most groups.  However, because the class was so obscenely powerful solo, it attracted a lot of people whose idea of grouping is "soloing next to some other guys" so the class got a bad rap as no good in groups.  

[Rasix]

What exactly do warriors have for aggro control?

You are playing World of Warcraft right? You know, taunt, getting all of the mobs on someone who's wearing plate and has a bunch of abilities to keep people from getting killed?  Usually pretty critical when craps hitting for 300+ and there's 4 of them.  A hunter pet lasts about 5 seconds under that.  (I'm just being a dick here, this stuff doesn't become critical until much later)

For me it's just kind of personal to my situation why I don't use hunters.  My group cannot take on a hunter in most situations where we need additional people.  It doesn't help either that most hunters we've met are completely useless fuckwads with no idea on how to play their class beyond "I'm pretty invincible in solo pve".   If I run into a good, competent hunter that makes just blows me away with how much easier they make things, then I'm sure I'd like to have them around.  But only in certain situations where I'm not forced into needing a warrior or priest.

The problem is, you're just outside the holy fucking trinity.  So are the classes I play (shaman, rogue).  I don't get nearly as many tells as others do to join instance runs (sure did ge a lot of fucking guild invites though, heh).  My mage friend probably gets double I do. 

And don't worry about instances, IMO, they suck. They take far too much of my time.  I guess I'll just have to live with being baseline less effective than most players in PVP.

[Shockeye]

Set-up time for pulls did drag things down when I played my hunter. I can see how wanting to burn through an instance can cause hunters to get passed over often.

[pants]

Hunters are the necromancers of WoW, definately.  We have a truckload of solo power (I didnt believe a lv55 guildie Warrior when he told me the other day he cant solo an even level mob - I've been doing level+2 my entire char's life), quite a bit of survivability, and a few useful tools.  However, since we are so soloable, most of us solo most of the time.  So most other chars don't know what we can do, and in a 5-man party theres not a lot of room for chars outside the holy trinity.

It doesn't help that there are a lot of hunters out there, so theres a lot of us fighting for aht 4th-5th spot in any group.

However, no need to get all depressed.  Once in a group, our abilities are damn useful (pulling, some crowd control, some offtanking, some aoe, and a lot of constant dps), and if we cant get a group for an instance, just go and solo.  At least we dont have to spend half our gametime on our arses drinking :)

[SurfD]

At least we dont have to spend half our gametime on our arses drinking :)

I [slurp] resent [slurp] that [fireball] remark [slurp slurp].

[Righ]

Hunters are all played by complete turd burglars. Tell them all to fuck off, and if you suspect that somebody has a hunter alt, they are probably a fudge packer.

This post brought to you by the letter generalization.

[MrHat]

I feel the only time that I (L60 Rogue) can get into a group is if only hunters are on.

[Calantus]

This is why my brother and I made a warrior priest duo. We can literally pick up anyone competant and it wont matter what class they are. A warrior and priest who know what they are doing and have good communication really do form the backbone of the group. So much so that all we really need is a little more DPS. A mage is nice for Poly, and I hear they will be useful for IAE, but for now it doesn't really matter. A pally/druid is nice for a backup healer. What I care about most though is the player... or more accurately all I care about is the aggro staying on my brother and the mobs going down before my mana goes. If you can DPS that mob down without drawing aggro and listen to my directions you are welcome. Also, pulling is mostly useless noise in this game. I "pull" with lvl1 pain and shadow reach because it's instant, has long range, and is almost no aggro (and I pull because then my bro can charge, and demo shout pulls all the straggler aggro onto him). So far the only useful tactics for pulling we've found are proxy pulling with mind soothe (VERY hard to pull off though), pulling with silence/IMP counterspell, pulling with sap, and "pulling" by MCing a mob and having it die under a flurry of blows from its former friends (or tying up a boss mob while we kill off its guards).

[chinslim]

Playing an underpopulated class owns on the level 60 instance raid circuit.  Raid leaders never hesitate to include you since you don't compete in loot rolls with other players, and you get to complete your armor set relatively fast because no one else competes against you.  Hunters are also highly desireable for Molten Core.

And for pulling, it really depends on the mob.  I take over pulling on my priest if I feel the MA is going to slow for my likes, or if it's a bunch of undead.

[kaid]

The really funny thing is in wow my standard group is 3 hunters and a warlock. With feign death for the hunters and soul stone for the warlock we rarely wipe. Also with 4 nasty pets out there as disposable tanks and extra dps we have yet to hit an instance that we cannot roll through.

kaid