Pissed about an X-Com FPS? Firaxis hears ya...

[lamaros]

I love assault soldiers. Mine has twice as many kills as the next best soldier (over three per mission).

[koro]

So I got XCOM modded to add the Second Wave stuff back in.

Marathon mode is indeed a marathon. Construction costs are increased, research time is tripled, and monthly income is reduced. This is going to be interesting.

[eldaec]

My roster now consists of...

1 heavy
2 assault
3 support
14 snipers
le shiv


And I only have so many supports because they were all mission rewards.

Fuck you class-selection-dice. I take it there is no way I'm accidentally influencing soldier classes?

I just picked up the hire-as-squaddie bonus so I guess I can just flood the roster now anyway.

[koro]

Class selection is completely random and it drives me crazy too. I went through about 20 squad hires trying to find a new Heavy, and got another 10 Snipers.

In other news, flanking is wonky as hell.

Here is a shot someone else took. Note how the Heavy has no flanking to the two aliens against the side of the semi.

And here is a shot I took earlier. Note how my Assault has flanking on both aliens against the side of the semi.

[eldaec]

Minor gripe:

When I started playing this I thought it was cheap that they only had one male and one female voice for soldiers. Then I look in the customusation section and find there are ten, but all have near enough identical US accents which I couldn't tell the difference between.

Bizarre decision.

If you took ten random people off main street, flyover city, kansas, you'd still get more diversity of voices than you do in this elite international military organisation.

[Reg]

I know I'm going to love this game but I must admit I'm glad that I'm having such fun in Torchlight 2 that I don't need to play it yet. Hopefully, by the time I get around to it all of these minor but annoying bugs will have been patched out.

[eldaec]

And another thing.

In xcom world, America is the only country on the planet that has both black people and white people.

Sectoids must be running some secret ethnic cleansing policy, the invasion is a front.

[Merusk]

Until this game gets more patches, I think I'm done with Classic Ironman. Too many game-ruining bugs for my taste. Both of my Heavies are bugged and cannot go into cover. Others are starting to run into an increasingly more common bug that prevents sectopods from taking explosive damage. Both undiscovered enemies and my own soldiers can sometimes randomly teleport around the map or, in the case of what happened to one of my soldiers, teleport off the map thanks to buggy Havok collisions, dying instantly. Replicable CTDs when shooting mutons in cover under certain circumstances on certain tilesets

It's a great game and I love it to pieces, but there's just too much shit that can go wrong that is completely out of your hands for me to keep going with a single save.

I'll agree.  Playing yesterday I *had* to do a reload several times on one mission because a 3 spawn of Mutons kept teleporting behind my guys and then plastering them.   Then on the base mission I had to totally restart because going up the left side meant the Berz & 2 Muton spawn on that side would hardlock the game. They'd be spotted, charge me and I'd lockup as they were moving in to cover. Argh.

Weird Sidenote:  I've gotten ONE female recruit this play-through.  One.  Then she died on her 2nd mission.   Xcom is a Good ol' Boys network sausagefest right now.

I love assault soldiers. Mine has twice as many kills as the next best soldier (over three per mission).

Same here. Run & Gun; use it, abuse it, love it.  So easy to flank and destroy aliens with assaults.  Heavies are my supression, fire-support and "oh shit, nuke it from orbit" reset buttons.

[Murgos]

In xcom world, America is the only country on the planet that has both black people and white people.

Sectoids must be running some secret ethnic cleansing policy, the invasion is a front.

This is not true.  I've had black Swedes and Brits among others and even an Asian Israelite.

[bhodi]

In other news, flanking is wonky as hell.

It's wonky until you understand the rules, all the cover ones seem arbitrary and weird compared to the first game. For example, units don't provide each other with cover and height bonuses are flat no matter how close you are to the enemy, so firing up onto a roof from below through low cover or through dudes is much easier than it should be.

Flanking requires sight by two people, for one of which the alien must be in the open.

You still have the non-cover to hit, though.


The one thing I am really missing is units providing cover to each other, and if it misses by an amount that would hit the cover, it hits the other instead.

[lamaros]

Nah, flanking actually has a few bugs. Often in regard to shared walls and breaks. It's rare, and most of the time you know what's happening, but sometimes there are flat out bugs with it.

[Murgos]

Not really. There are no choices, there is one right thing any everything else is wrong. It's not a case of "if you go research early you fuck yourself by getting engineers", it is "if you don't go engineers first, then you're fucked. do x, then y, then z. any deviation from this path results in failure." You don't plan and execute a strategy, you just follow one that the game requires.

At least that is what the game feels like at this stage for me.

This is nonsense.  You are trying for some optimal outcome, ok, sure, then somethings work better than others at certain points of the game to get some specific effect.  But saying that's not a strategic choice on your part is foolish.  Recognizing a (or the) path of best reward isn't anti-strategy, it's actually the essence of strategy.  In this game almost every decision has some long term effect on your strategy.  Every time you launch a satellite you are exercising strategic choice about who gets support with a limited resource and who doesn't.  Every time you pick one research path over the other you are making a strategic choice about your accessibility to long term facilities and tactical options available.  Every time you decide to spend your money on a buying a laser rifle rather than saving for something else you are making a strategic choice about what you feel will help you more long term.  Every time you send soldier A instead of soldier B to a mission you are making a strategic choice about what battlefield options you want available and resource investment for long term success.  If you don't think leveling a single soldier up to Colonel over leveling several rookies up to sergeant required a whole series of series of strategic choices you are really confused, and, etc... etc... etc...

Also, earlier you posted that the game should tell you which soldiers are better for which mission maps. I don't think you get it both ways, either knowing an optimal path is bad or knowing an optimal path is good.  Make up your mind.

[DraconianOne]

I agree. I love the fact that this game is all about risk vs reward and long term benefit vs short term gain and when a risk doesn't pay off, it can really work against you. 

One question regarding Council requests - what happens if you don't fulfill a council request? Does it just go against you in the end of month report or is there an immediate effect like panic increase?

[Murgos]

Nah, flanking actually has a few bugs. Often in regard to shared walls and breaks. It's rare, and most of the time you know what's happening, but sometimes there are flat out bugs with it.

Unless you know where all the troopers are on the map I don't think you can determine which, if any, of those screenshots is a bug.

Flanking bonuses are different from lack of cover.  The game appears to keep track of azimuths from the target to the potential shooters and if there is more than one potential shooter and they are at least some arc apart (90 degrees? It might vary form in cover to out of cover or level of cover) from each other you can get a flanking bonus on one (or more) of the shooters.

[Merusk]

I agree. I love the fact that this game is all about risk vs reward and long term benefit vs short term gain and when a risk doesn't pay off, it can really work against you. 

One question regarding Council requests - what happens if you don't fulfill a council request? Does it just go against you in the end of month report or is there an immediate effect like panic increase?

So far as I can tell there's no effect to ignoring them, outside of not getting the bonus cash or whatever reward they offer. 

I agree on missing the "I'll take that hit for you" aspect of the old game.  Sometimes I want to use that rookiee fodder to keep the vet from getting hit, but I can't.    Hell, just last night on the base mission I had a heavy quite clearly miss an overwatch right in to the back of my Assault's head.  I shit myself and then was really disappointed as I realized he was totally unharmed.

 One thing that really kind of irritates me, though, is the cursor pathing inside of ships.  It's total shit and the top of the ship and exterior interfere quite a bit more than the rest of the maps.  I have to change angles frequently or else I find I'm clicking on another level or can't select the cover at the cargo bays at all.

[Yoru]

Weird Sidenote:  I've gotten ONE female recruit this play-through.  One.  Then she died on her 2nd mission.   Xcom is a Good ol' Boys network sausagefest right now.

I started out with one female soldier; she ended up being the master psychic 80-will MVP of my squad and only missed one mission due to injuries. The only girl in a giant barracks full of 20 other dudes.

As attrition picked out the weak, I slowly onboarded some more women until my final A-Team was fifty-fifty. Two female supports and a female sniper with one male support, one male assault and one male heavy. At the very very end of the game (literally, last mission) I had seven women in my barracks. Pity, I would've liked to have had more earlier to go for the Valkyrie squad achievement.

Next playthrough, I suppose.

[Mrbloodworth]

My current issue is satellites. I can't seem to get enough out there before I loose a few countries.

How many are you guys typically loosing before you can stabilize it?

[tmp]

And another thing.

In xcom world, America is the only country on the planet that has both black people and white people.

Sectoids must be running some secret ethnic cleansing policy, the invasion is a front.

(maj. Dubois is French)

Regarding kill counts, the assault troops are indeed good (and i run them with regular rifles rather than shotguns, being able to contribute all the time seems to outweight the extra shotgun damage at least for regular/laser weapons) but the snipers come into their own with the squad sight. A sniper with laser rifle = shooting mutons from full health to zero while chilling at the back, every round.

[eldaec]

My current issue is satellites. I can't seem to get enough out there before I loose a few countries.

How many are you guys typically loosing before you can stabilize it?

I'm not losing any on classic, but you have to skip the tutorial.

Day 1 each month start building a new uplink and as many satellites as you need to fill it. Second priority each month is to build workshops and power supply you need for the next uplink. Deploy the satellites a day before the report on the most panicked nations.

If you complete an uplink each month you shouldn't lose anyone assuming you generally win the tactical missions and choose your abductions carefully - base decisions on which continents can take the +panic hit when you pick somewhere else.

[Merusk]

My current issue is satellites. I can't seem to get enough out there before I loose a few countries.

How many are you guys typically loosing before you can stabilize it?

No matter what I do, I wind-up losing two the first month.  I can't spot enough UFOs to up my funding for workshops or run enough abduction missions to supply engineers quick enough to produce more.  After that it's pretty easy to maintain panic, particularly if you're a stubborn bastard like me and put-off the base mission until you absolutely have to run it for the HUGE panic reduction it gives.

Weird Sidenote:  I've gotten ONE female recruit this play-through.  One.  Then she died on her 2nd mission.   Xcom is a Good ol' Boys network sausagefest right now.

I started out with one female soldier; she ended up being the master psychic 80-will MVP of my squad and only missed one mission due to injuries. The only girl in a giant barracks full of 20 other dudes.

As attrition picked out the weak, I slowly onboarded some more women until my final A-Team was fifty-fifty. Two female supports and a female sniper with one male support, one male assault and one male heavy. At the very very end of the game (literally, last mission) I had seven women in my barracks. Pity, I would've liked to have had more earlier to go for the Valkyrie squad achievement.

Next playthrough, I suppose.

Yeah, it's just a weird streak. My first game, which I was forced to abandon, had a nice 50/50 split the entire time.  I got Valkyrie on one of the first 3-4 missions because of it.  This time, not a one.  Of course, I'm not getting any Americans, either.   The RNG on this savegame has been really really weird like that.

[tmp]

Of course, I'm not getting any Americans, either.   The RNG on this savegame has been really really weird like that.

Yeah, i have the base in U.S and got like 3 soldiers from that country total (all turned out snipers)  Granted, i didn't do much of recruiting but it feels a little weird at least the starting roster isn't more influenced by the base location.

[eldaec]

In xcom world, America is the only country on the planet that has both black people and white people.

Sectoids must be running some secret ethnic cleansing policy, the invasion is a front.

This is not true.  I've had black Swedes and Brits among others and even an Asian Israelite.

Fair enough, must be snipers' guild is fucking with me.

[eldaec]

Of course, I'm not getting any Americans, either.   The RNG on this savegame has been really really weird like that.

Yeah, i have the base in U.S and got like 3 soldiers from that country total (all turned out snipers)  Granted, i didn't do much of recruiting but it feels a little weird at least the starting roster isn't more influenced by the base location.

There are more countries than just the council nations. 3 guys from a specific country is a lot.

[Polysorbate80]

I downed the overseer ship, took the ethereal alive, researched the tech and I'm waiting for the psychic room stuff to build, am I finally at least close to finishing a game?

I skipped normal and went straight to Classic Ironman; 17 games of sqaud wipes--fuck you first terror mission and your goddamn chrysalids--poor tech tree decision making, and plain ol' shitty luck (steam all the way the fuck down & halfway across the fourth level and no engineer reward in the first abduction mission?  kthxbye)

Best luck so far is with 2 snipers, 1 heavy, 1 support, and 2 assaults.  Both my best Assaults are Scottish women.  There's something both awesome and disturbing about two wee lassies charging in screaming and shotgunning mutons in the back of the head...

[Merusk]

Speaking of Ethereals..

[Polysorbate80]

I haven't tested anyone for psychic potential yet; I researched the Psi training room earlier but didn't even build it until it told me that I was going to have to, along with the other funky-named room.  I'm guessing the next thing is "send a psychic soldier to do blah blah blah" and I'll have to waste time then.

I have a decently ranked spare heavy, support, and assault, but no other snipers at all.  I'm extremely paranoid about them, replacing and re-ranking one at this point would suck extreme balls.  I'd probably just swap in the other good heavy.

Regarding the earlier question about losing countries, I haven't lost any on this playthrough.  It's a combination of luck in mission location, using the grey market to raise funds to get as many satellites ready as possible (and waiting until the end of the month to fly them), and doing the base assault early.  Running that with only laser weapons and carapace armor wasn't as hard as I thought, just tedious--just don't go up both sides at the same time.  Activating too many pockets of aliens at once will wreck your day, since laser weapons tend to not kill chrysalids and mutons with one shot unless you crit.

Downing the overseer ship with lasers was pretty iffy, though.  It was a tossup whether the firestorm (even with all three boosts) would take its last hit and get destroyed before the last fraction of a second of time ran out when it surprised me by winning instead 

[Amaron]

If you get a nasty mission you can simply click "go back to briefing".  Then pull your guys out of psi testing.

[koro]

Nah, flanking actually has a few bugs. Often in regard to shared walls and breaks. It's rare, and most of the time you know what's happening, but sometimes there are flat out bugs with it.

Unless you know where all the troopers are on the map I don't think you can determine which, if any, of those screenshots is a bug.

Flanking bonuses are different from lack of cover.  The game appears to keep track of azimuths from the target to the potential shooters and if there is more than one potential shooter and they are at least some arc apart (90 degrees? It might vary form in cover to out of cover or level of cover) from each other you can get a flanking bonus on one (or more) of the shooters.

It does not matter, at all, what other soldiers are within sight of the potentially flanked targets. In both of those screenshots I posted the aliens pressed against the semi truck should either both be flanked, or not flanked at all. If I had moved one of my soldiers to be able to shoot through the semi at one of the flanked aliens in my shot, they wouldn't be getting the flanking bonuses (the "number of spotted aliens" in the lower-right would all be red to show that particular soldier don't have flanking despite the cover shield for the alien being yellow to show that someone is flanking it), and that's fine; the Assault flanking them would still get them.

It is possible to move an Assault with a shotgun to standing literally right next to the target, on the same plane of tiles, and not get flanking. But other times you will get flanking. It is inconsistent, a bit buggy, and needs to be addressed.

If you get a nasty mission you can simply click "go back to briefing".  Then pull your guys out of psi testing.

Once you start psi testing, you cannot stop it.

[Furiously]

I was stuck not being able to do the last mission. I finally figured out what I was doing wrong.

[Pezzle]

In love with my Valkyrie assault squad right now.  2 assaults with laser shotguns.  Aggression, Close and Personal, Rapid Fire, Close Combat Specialist.

Give them movement armor and watch them break the sound barrier racing around the map critting things at point blank range.  I am trying to verify if Close Combat Specialist is triggering on enemy attacks.  A Muton next to one of the assaults starts to animate in some way, the next thing you know it is a pile of gore.  Also need to  figure out if it is compatible with overwatch.  I wonder what kind of damage I will crank out with killer instinct.  

[Merusk]

In love with my Valkyrie assault squad right now.  2 assaults with laser shotguns.  Aggression, Close and Personal, Rapid Fire, Close Combat Specialist.

Give them movement armor and watch them break the sound barrier racing around the map critting things at point blank range.  I am trying to verify if Close Combat Specialist is triggering on enemy attacks.  A Muton next to one of the assaults starts to animate in some way, the next thing you know it is a pile of gore.  Also need to  figure out if it is compatible with overwatch.  I wonder what kind of damage I will crank out with killer instinct.  

I can verify CCS works any time (once) they get within 4 tiles of you and after overwatch.  The Muton-spawn that was crashing my game kept sending the berserker through my Assault's "Personal Space" after he'd taken his overwatch shot and he'd take another.  Not sure if it triggers on attacks from mobs within that 4-tile zone.

[Murgos]

Apparently you can get gifted techs, I just saw a screenshot of someone getting 'Research: Carapace Armor" from a UFO crash mission success results.  Is that only on normal difficulty? I know I had to unlock Carapace Armor through the research tree.

[Ratman_tf]

Flanking requires sight by two people, for one of which the alien must be in the open.

You still have the non-cover to hit, though.

Oho! 

[Mrbloodworth]

Alien head colors mean............?

[koro]

Flanking requires sight by two people, for one of which the alien must be in the open.

You still have the non-cover to hit, though.

Oho!  

The part about requiring sight by two people is not true.

Same mission as the screenshot I took earlier, but on the final turn. My Heavy since died (thanks, lucky crit), so I've only got three people left: my Assault, my Sniper, and a Rookie.

I moved my Sniper up so he has flanking on the last sectoid; the other two squadmates are behind the semi you see at the top-right:

My Assault had pulled back to reload in the previous turn, so he was out of LOS anyway:

And here, my Rookie also does not have LOS on the sectoid:

The only person who sees the sectoid is the Sniper, who is still flanking it.

Alien head colors mean............?

Red heads in the lower-right mean your selected soldier sees an alien; there's a head for each visible target. You can mouse over them to see your hit % and where the alien is without having to scour the map.

Yellow heads mean that selected soldier has flanking on one or more aliens he sees.