So, is it fun or just shiny and new?

[shiznitz]

There are lots of posts and discussions here about classes and quests. There is clearly excitement.  But is the fun new or is the fun what we have come to expect?

Obviously those who play MMOs find them fun at a basic level. I am not asking about that.  What makes this game more of less fun in the first 30 days compared to other MMOs first 30 days?

[Zetor]

IMO the fun is in the storylines / quests themselves. There's a truckload of content in this game: 2x4 class questlines, and planet quests for both sides... the flashpoints aren't bad either.

I'm playing it like a multiplayer / co-op KOTOR, and for that it's worth the price imo. At least for the first month or two. 

[luckton]

In a word: Story

In a few more words: The game actually immerses you into the world a hell of a lot better than other MMOs have done thus far.  That's the big 'revolutionary' thing about SWTOR.  Mostly everything else mechanic and gameplay-wise is carbon-copy cloned from WoW Vanilla/BC days, along with a couple extra bits here and there.

If you're on the fence but are currently enjoying another MMO, I'd stay with that MMO for now until they start offering free trials.  There's still a bit of madness with server queues, website/account login stuff and other noise that one who's currently satisfied elsewhere need not be bothered with.  By the time they do offer a trial, most of that stuff will be squared away, and other problems will hopefully be patched up as well.

[Miasma]

I don't see what's wrong with shiny and new.  So long as you like story it is a fun game and worth two or three months of heavy play.  Whether or not it's worth subscribing to long term will mostly be based on who you guild and play with, as with most MMOs.  It is an enjoyable kotor3/mmo hybrid even though it doesn't do justice to kotor and its mmo qualities are old and unpolished.

[Ghambit]

It's fun, but you cant detach the fun from the fact it's the first ever true space opera MMO.  That kind of newness will always create fun.
It also has a "pageturner" feel that I havent ever gotten from an MMO before save Tortage.  After a while you get into the story and just want to find out what happens next.  e.g. "just one more quest"

In this sense, it's pretty much as good as it gets for the first 30-days; 8 KOTORS in one.  After that we likely will run into issues.

That being said, I still believe something like Rift or AoC is better for hardened rpgers and endgamers.  They're just more mechanically sound and built more to sustain play after max lvl.  TOR may fail at that, we'll see.
But, it's the first game that will get me to play an alt.  I'm not an alt person by a longshot.

[Paelos]

The story choices are awesome, made doubly so when you play in a group and have to compete for dialogue options.

[sam, an eggplant]

It's not a great MMO. It doesn't even come close to competing with Rift.

The stories are compelling, though.

[ajax34i]

To me, I think it's fun, and will probably continue to be so as long as I'm levelling an alt and it's got a story to follow.  I don't hate MMO's, and I could get into raiding later, but I'm just not interested in that right now, and that's the only thing WoW has to offer.  Plus, I think pandas are stupid, so I'm gonna skip this expansion, and EVE Online is still only at the point where the devs seem interested in fixing the game, but they haven't actually made any of the big changes required to improve it, so not going back for a while.

Once the stories are exhausted, I can play Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, and Portal 2 (haven't started either), and continue X3:TC and try X3:Albion, and it should keep me busy until ME3 or X4 or whatever.

[Merusk]

Mechanics wise I'll agree with that.  Content wise I don't know.  I didn't get in to Rift enough in beta to bother with it at launch.  I liked some of their ideas and the hot-swapping of spec/ roles but not enough to leave WoW for it.

It's got more personality than Rift ever did, though.  Then again I've never been one of the SW haters, even through all the idiocy of the EU, etc, so I'm biased there.

It's worth taking a look at for anyone into the industry.  How much you'll enjoy it and at what price point you should jump in will all depend on how much you value seeing the innovation of story-as-mmospace because it's not the UI or mechanics that you'll be playing for.  

[rattran]

It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it.

[ajax34i]

It's also a fantasy world that, to me, implies the absence of a grind of any kind.  Nobody in the movies or books or whatever is grinding for cash or powers or anything.  So, I have a feeling that it'll be a lot less fun to me once the grind starts (if it does).  Which is why it'll probably suck if they nerf how fast credits can be made, or the xp curve.

[apocrypha]

It *is* shiny and new, but it's also incredibly well done.

It has a high level of polish, it's got engaging story-driven questing, it's got very, very good group mechanics that integrate well with the story, it's got decent depth of game mechanics, from character progression to crafting to gear upgrading & choices. It's visually very well designed - and that's despite my initial reservations. I think they missed a trick with the starter areas, they look very bland, but 20 mins in and it starts to look awesome.

I was very, very skeptical at first. I played a tiny amount of beta and was very unimpressed, but I gave it a shot anyway and have spent the last 2 days having an obscene amount of fun with it. I have a feeling they're onto a winner here and this game will be the first MMO to even come close to denting WoW's crown.

[Sky]

It's a fantasy world we know, rather than Rift's generic fantasy world. I admit to getting a kick to seeing familiar places in game, mostly familiar from other Star Wars games at this point. It's a diku, with some tweaks. If you hate mmos, you'll hate it. If you love Star Wars, you'll love it.

That about sums it up for me. I'm not blind to the rough edges, but hopefully they'll have plenty of time to polish it up. Remember EQ2 was my favorite game and that launched a mess.

But I was thinking last night that I now understand some folk's fascination with LotR. The IP really enhances the game for me, and being slathered in Bioware sauce just keeps delivering.

Oddly, in this game it's hard for me to roll an alt, and I'm normally a crazy alt-o-hollic. It's like trying to read two books at once, I just don't do it. I really love the connection to character, actually seeing your character a lot in cut-scenes really adds to that, along with decision-making along the way. Characters in every other mmo were just a means of world interaction. TOR characters are actual characters. It's awesome.

[luckton]

Oddly, in this game it's hard for me to roll an alt, and I'm normally a crazy alt-o-hollic. It's like trying to read two books at once, I just don't do it. I really love the connection to character, actually seeing your character a lot in cut-scenes really adds to that, along with decision-making along the way. Characters in every other mmo were just a means of world interaction. TOR characters are actual characters. It's awesome.

I'm in the same boat.  I so want to roll an Inquisitor, but I really want to see my IA's story to the end, along with unlocking that whole Legacy thing and stuff

[Soln]

Not feeling it still.  Feels horribly bland and at times predictable.  The rails are getting to me. At least Rift surprised you with the randomness.

[luckton]

At least Rift surprised you with the randomness.

'Randomness' that quickly become predictable and bland quick.  But I hear you.

[eldaec]

As a mmorpg, fun but shallow and rough around the edges.

As a bioware rpg, huge but shallow.

[MuffinMan]

The story choices are awesome, made doubly so when you play in a group and have to compete for dialogue options.

This. The flashpoints are pushing me above being indifferent towards the game.

[Threash]

It's not that great, some times the story makes you want to find out what happens next but the actual gameplay is far behind both WoW and Rift.

[Soln]

Part of my problem is that I don't see any carrots to advancing.  I mean, if you know zero about the game and play it cold, out-of-the-box (no wikis, no game sites, no spoilers) where are the herald-quests or the lures to keep you going?  For example, when do you get a ship, or a companion NPC, or a fucking staff-o-greatness?  The game feels like a 2h movie that's been boring for the first hour and all you know is that there's another hour coming up.  

If you're not hooked by the story from the start -- and I'm really fucking disappointed with Jedi starting area -- it's hard to know why you should keep going.  With the Jedi path there's zero story lures up to lvl7 that push you on.  Don't know about other classes, but at least with Smuggler you're trying at the start to get revenge.

Not shitting on people's fun, since I spent 6 odd years looking forward to this title and experience.  Just can't bring myself to spend hours listening to VO's to get to that magic level when the fun starts.  And posting all this in the hope that there is a magic level when combat takes off and things get complex, wonky, etc.  Is it like LotRO where you don't get all the neat skills and quests until level 15, 25, 35?

[sam, an eggplant]

in the hope that there is a magic level when combat takes off and things get complex, wonky, etc.  Is it like LotRO where you don't get all the neat skills and quests until level 15, 25, 35?

It depends on the class. Some mature early, some later. My jedi knight only gets one AE ability until level 34, and every pull is 3-5 targets. That sucks. But my bounty hunter has 4 AE ability, one of which one-shots a group every 45 seconds.

The stories are strong from level 1. Again, some more than others, obviously. At the worst you're running around killing flesh beasts, but at the best you're going undercover deceiving a Hutt, double-crossing people, etc.

[Ghambit]

The Empire storyline(s) (especially in the beginning) really make the game shine.  The republic?  notsomuch.  Curious to see how it pans out.
As for my IA, I think I've slept with 3 different women already (one of whom is a sith lord) whilst I simultaneously try to get into Kaliyo's pants and save the empire from itself by being a snarky douche undercover, yet a lightside goodie in reality.  The story is win, especially if you dig agency-speak and military subterfuge tactics.  Some of the scenarios they come up with are quite creative.

Let's be real though... PS2 is really the game I'm waiting for.  And Rift is likely the game I should be playing; if not the new and improved AoC or the F2P DCUO.  But TOR scratches an itch that needs scratching.

It's a shame STO wasnt designed the same way.  They've got some great episodic story content at endgame that's pretty damned good, but the lvling ride there is fairly nauseous.  TOR is exactly the opposite.

[eldaec]

If you're not hooked by the story from the start -- and I'm really fucking disappointed with Jedi starting area -- it's hard to know why you should keep going.  With the Jedi path there's zero story lures up to lvl7 that push you on.  Don't know about other classes, but at least with Smuggler you're trying at the start to get revenge.

I can't talk about the mid and late game, but...

Agent and Smuggler storylines start out great.

BH and trooper stroylines start out well.

Sith storylines start out mediocre.

Jedi storylines start out terrible.

[Venkman]

I agree with everything said here :)

The stories are very hit or miss. For the most part the Smuggler ones are great, and the dialog options on the trash quests can be fun too. Being a diku, I couldn't care less about gear or heroics or really, any grouping at all until I hit later levels. I'm missing out on some of the cool story group quests but don't mind it much. My Smuggler is a loner who surrounds himself with loners :)

The Jedi Knight story is one dimensional pap ala Episode 1. No real depth there. But I rolled one up because dammit, they're just fun as heck to watch fight so I figured I'd partake.

TOR isn't really scratching an MMO itch for me. I'm curious to see if I'll give a shit at the end game. Right now it's kind of a weaksauce RPG within a fun fantasy setting derivative of the KOTOR I enjoyed a few years ago. But the upshots to me are the space combat, the cover mechanic, the companions system, and being able to see my guild again. Much as I love Skyrim, the chat channel is a bit quiet 

[Morfiend]

I'm enjoying the crap out of it. Although, some of the rough edges are starting to give me blisters. One of my main points of contention is the UI. I know we have talked about the UI a lot in other threads, but now that I am getting higher in level than I did in beta it is becoming more and more evident that the UI needs a decent amount of work. My Sith Assassin hit level 30, and I find myself having almost all my bars full up. It is even to the point that I went on torhead this morning and counted up the possible abilities I will get in the next 20 levels, and talent builds, just so I can try and figure out how I am going to hotkey / quickslot them. Its a huge pain.

I think one of the reviewers hit it head on.

"If you liked the story, you will like the game, if you only came for the mmo aspect, you will be disappointed".

Also, I think a lot of this games longevity and staying power will be down to the dev teams ability to fix/refine and add content. Right now they do have a solid base for a long lasting MMO, but if they refuse to fix and adjust the things that people are unhappy with, the game could drop drastically. I think if their dev team spends some quality time over the next 3 to 6 months updating a bunch of the mechanic stuff to sort of "bring the game to 2012" it will do really well.

[Maledict]

The storys are great and levelling is definitely fun and worth doing.

The actual gameplay is quite weak however - its a mish mash of stuff from TBC era of Warcraft combined with permanent companions ala Bioware. The class design & skill trees in particular are quite poor, and I expect a hefty serious of revisions to some classes in the first few patches. (the operative / smuggler class in particular is incredibly poorly designed for the first 30 levels of the game or so, and it's easy to see how they could improve it with some rational and simple skill / ability changes).

[Crumbs]

I find it very fun.  Some random observations:  Finally being in space (in a casual friendly MMO) is extremely refreshing.  There are some fun abilities in all the classes.  Battlegrounds are interesting in that they don't seem to be divided by level (I've done one Huttball match so far and the players ranged from lvl 10-40).  Mission skills are an amazing minigame with loot.  Worth a shot if you are on the fence.

I agree with the other sentiments about seemingly obvious features that are lacking.  I expect that to be changed given the uproarz in the forums.

[Dark_MadMax]

Stories are the main thing.  The other part is that its new and the location are very well done so I am just enjoing exploration part as well. DIKU parts are very mehh and I am already getting tired of those kill "50 mobs"  fillers which block my story advancements. Most heroics are nothing special and are just silvers/elites ending with a miniboss. Very few actually are worth doing (firestar  for example has nice cutscene, but most dont even have any dialogue options -just terminal box window)


The rest of the mechanics are ok. Combat is ok  but 1.5 GCD making it even more sluggish, classes are semi entertaining , but  no dual classing limits exploration of trees . PvP is DIKU garbage (predictably) - with astonishing amount of cc (predictable too - it was obviously never meant for pvp) .If not for story  I wouldnt be playing

[Nevermore]

It's also a fantasy world that, to me, implies the absence of a grind of any kind.  Nobody in the movies or books or whatever is grinding for cash or powers or anything.  So, I have a feeling that it'll be a lot less fun to me once the grind starts (if it does).  Which is why it'll probably suck if they nerf how fast credits can be made, or the xp curve.

I'm pretty sure Luke leveled up regularly from A New Hope, through Empire and into Return of the Jedi.  Most of his grind took place doing all those Dagobah dailies and between Empire and Jedi, though. 

[Nevermore]

I can't talk about the mid and late game, but...

Agent and Smuggler storylines start out great.

BH and trooper stroylines start out well.

Sith storylines start out mediocre.

Jedi storylines start out terrible.

This is actually good news to me, because I liked how the Consular story started.  There was a clear reason for doing what you're doing (get to the bottom of the attacks!) and it snowballs from there, which is why you leave for the next planet (there's more going on here than we realized!).  Now I have also done the Trooper and Smuggler stories through the starting zones and they get dumped into a more 'actiony' scenario since Ord Mantell is in the midst of a civil war.  The Smuggler story is indeed probably the most awesome, but I wouldn't say the Trooper story was any better than the Consular one (keeping in mind I like the Consular one).  So if all the ones I haven't done yet are even better..  well, should be a lot of replay value in doing the other classes! 

Keep in mind also that all the zones have tons of side quests as well, which I suppose you technically don't have to do if you just want to see the main storyline.  Personally I like them though, and unlike most MMOs all those side missions fit into the context of the zone very well.  They give you a nice sense that these planets all have their own problems they're dealing with that aren't related to you specifically.  I like how dealing with those problems makes my Jedi feel like Caine from Kung Fu, traveling through the frontier worlds righting wrongs as she encounters them. :P

[Dark_MadMax]

I just finished chapter1 of IA. IA story started great, then sorta fell off, then it gained traction again and culmination was almost epic. EXCEPT they dropped the ball. This was a story for single player game.  But they squeezed it into MMO and result is predictable - it feels sour, fake and cheap. You are dropped back into your MMO and nothing epic which happened inside the story actually happened. In fact its even worse than that cause in order to cut cost and accommodate 2 radically different ending they chose to nick one completely. So like nothing ever happened. You still a lowly field agent cleaning other people boots.

[Kageru]

The shortest summary I saw was, "Play it for the story, leave when it ends". I'm fairly sure they hope that's not a common sentiment. I suspect there'll be a lot of people happy to just live in the star wars world as long as there is any excuse to do so, but even so their retention is going to be the interesting thing.

[taolurker]

I only really got to play this during two beta stress test weekends, so I didn't really get into a great deal of depth with the game. I was mostly testing queues and servers, but I can say that I expected more. I posted something similar other places before, but I really want to like this game. I even thought there was some fun there, and definitely a draw to do the story, but it was the wrapper that made me not want to buy in.

The MMO stuff seems like it was tacked on, I see way too many things missing that are MMO conventions, and any gain it had from story it lost from how generic it felt (especially when I was a clone who had cloned companions). The cut-scenes were interesting, and I enjoy story sequences, but as an IA I got a mission where a cut-scene was an Alien talking Alienese with subtitles and a quest go recover my stolen item. So why did I need a cut scene where I read the text anyway. Really?

I also read way too much of the forums regarding this game, and didn't really see any need to splurge for it at full cost. I can see some retention for alt-ing, but just don't think this will hook enough players for long term. SWG couldn't do it with Sim Beru and broken combat, and I don't see this doing it with scripted stories and quasi diku mechanics in a bad ui.

I can't see them not having price drops, free trials or some kind of buddy key system within the first Qtr 2012. The shiny also wasn't the shiny I wanted from Bioware, and Mass Effect's graphics in a Star Wars game would've impressed me more (hell even KOTOR graphics with a generous bump).

[Ratman_tf]

I got tired of the cutscene/dialogue gimmick after about 30 seconds. And it suffers from the Bioware "I chose what?" problem.
The game outside of the diaglogues and cutscenes is WoW in space, with a few wrinkles.
The only reason I'm playing it is because I have some friends who are also. Without that, I'd have passed.

I vote "Shiny and new"

[01101010]

Ahhh smells like F13 in here now. Don't ever change you glorious bastards...