I'm the Juggernaut, bitch! (SW Jugg/JK Guardian)

[rattran]

I've only done open world grouping  (mostly heroic 4s) and other than spamming my aoe threat and my targeted threat on peel offs, nothing I do seems to work. Damage does sfa, though throwing guard on the DPS sorc against the Hadra guys worked wonders, though I still had to keep the aoe shout threat whenever it came up and use the direct, but only on stuff that ran at her.

[Ingmar]

Our AE threat is terrible, yes - the thing we're trying to figure out is why his single target threat is outstripping mine so much.

In other news, my One Big Request is that they reduce our core buttons by one - either have sundering strike replace strike, or (probably better) make guardian slash replace slash.

[Raknor]

To the tanky guys, how are you managing with threat? Keeping it? Fighting for it? Getting it easy?

Ingmar and I are trying to solve a mystery, we have virtually identical gear and 'skill', but my Trooper mops the floor with his Guardian in terms of threat. I can pretty much take it at will, just through regular rotation on my part.

I don't play a Jug but I can comment on the threat.  Its horrible.  I consistently run hard modes with both a jug and a BH tank. The BH tank never loses agro. I don't have to hold back at all.  With the jug I'm constantly spamming my agro dump each time its up. When he first engages a boss I have to let the Jug get a threat lead before I start getting into my full rotation.  (I play a Sorc)

I'd like to think both my buddies have about equal skill in games. Each of them I've been playing with since EQ, so tanking and agro isn't a new idea to either of them. 

Amusing part, the BH tank actually had a 50 jug as his main and said it was absolutely horrible to tank with.  Too many abilities that were too situational and the threat was lack luster.  So he rerolled and is now playing the BH tank as his main. The BH has far worse gear than the Jug too. So I don't think that is the issue.

I'm some what worried whats going to happen when we start raids.

[Fordel]

That seems in line with my own experiences as a Trooper. I have no issues holding threat outside of the group going full retard and doing really stupid shit. Like, every person picks their own gold elite to attack in random directions across the room kind of stupid.

Otherwise I'm going to hold with a pretty loose rotation, not much stress on my part at all. Single target, AE, not really a big deal.


I haven't done any hardmodes yet, but from normal heroic 4s and dungeons and stuff, seems to be good.




I'm starting to wonder if Jugg/Guardian threat stance is broken somehow?

[jakonovski]

Heroic Moment: Call on the Force.

Has there ever been a more useless "ultimate" skill? The heal doesn't even save you from the autoattacks of a single silver mob.

[tmp]

It's quite useful when leveling, at least -- i'd typically use it during the storyline fights against bosses and such (especially when i don't bring the healer with me) and it seems to make difference between close fight and an easy one. Only couple times when it didn't settle things in my favour was against one gold + two silvers, and a fight against a champion mob.

These ticks effectively add to a medpack worth of heal. Should be used early, though, as a way to keep your hp bar full. Not by the time you find yourself half dead.

[Zetor]

Not to mention it resets the CD on saber ward, which can be very useful... on a tough fight you can use SW, then when it runs out pop this skill and use SW again.

[Nevermore]

Since you have to have your companion out to use it, it's specifically put in for soloing harder stuff (or duoing, I suppose).  Every class gets a similar skill.  Plus it starts up Dramatic Music, so there's that too.

[Fordel]

Yea it's basically a skill that your supposed to use for your class story quests.

The Trooper one resets the cooldown on Cryo Grenade (our 4 sec stun) on top of the little healing bonus it gives, which can mean 8 seconds of a big gold not fighting back.

[eldaec]

They almost all reset your stun cooldown. Except agent which for some reason resets adrenalin probe.

I find it is worth at least an extra level against champions. Not just because of the healing, but also a second stun in the first minute extends the number of consecutive interrupts you can manage at the start of a fight - probably worth a bit over ten more seconds of no casting.

Interrupt rotation on my assassin:

Low Slash
Jolt
Electrocute
Immediately channel the force
Low Slash
Jolt
<You run out of cooldown interrupts here without Channel the force>
Electrocute
Jolt
Low Slash
<NPC has a few seconds now when it can cast>

[Rendakor]

The Juggernaut 20m CD resets Saber Ward, our defensive avoidance ability.

[eldaec]

Hmm, well that sucks I guess. I'd have thought you'd want it on force choke or something.

[Merusk]

I *wish* it reset my BH avoidance talent.  Instead it resets electrocute which most Champs seem to be immune to.

[Lantyssa]

Hmm, well that sucks I guess. I'd have thought you'd want it on force choke or something.

Nah, Saber Ward is a good survival talent.

[Rendakor]

Hmm, well that sucks I guess. I'd have thought you'd want it on force choke or something.

Nah, Saber Ward is a good survival talent.

This. Stuns aren't useful on the things I'd need a 20m CD for.

[Bunk]

Yup, Saber Ward gives a 2 sec invuln followed by 8 secs of 40% reduction. That combo has bailed me out of a few Solo Boss fights. Need to remember to use it early though, nothing worse than going to use it and then realizing your sidekick already dropped.

[Sky]

Anyone playing a dps Guardian?

[eldaec]

Hang on, your stuns don't work on everything?

At least on inquisitor, anything where the primary purpose is a stun works on everything. Things like shock which have stun as an additional effect don't work, but mind trap, electrocute, low slash, are 100%.

Can't imagine what you would use a stun on if not champions/elites.

[01101010]

Hang on, your stuns don't work on everything?

At least on inquisitor, anything where the primary purpose is a stun works on everything. Things like shock which have stun as an additional effect don't work, but mind trap, electrocute, low slash, are 100%.

Can't imagine what you would use a stun on if not champions/elites.

Stuns have never worked on bosses... at least not that I am aware.

[Threash]

I'm rolling a sith warrior next and can't decide between jugg and marauder, how good is this class in pvp as dps?  getting an extra 3 medals guaranteed per round is pushing me towards juggs atm.

[Lantyssa]

I've never played a Juggernaut, so I can't comment on them.  Marauders are hellishly fun to play though.

[Rendakor]

I love my Juggernaut but I'm tank specced. I'm an unstoppable ball carrier in Huttball though.

[Merusk]

I got 6 medals as a L30 Marauder last night without trying.  If Juggs have the same problem as BH tanks, getting the damage ones will be a bitch so you should be at a wash, yes?

[Threash]

My BH tank has zero problems raking in both damage and tanking medals.  You don't give up any damage by going dps and the taunts make the protection medals a breeze.

[Ingmar]

Hmm, well that sucks I guess. I'd have thought you'd want it on force choke or something.

It is actually really great if you're the tank spec. If you're the dps spec I'm not sure it is all that exciting.

And yeah, stuns on any class don't work on actual Boss bosses in dungeons, and sometimes other things (one of the random miniboss champions in the Belsavis Heroic 4 for example.)

[Fordel]

At least if it's stun immune it says so on a little buff the monster has.

[Sky]

Anyone playing a dps Guardian?

Ok, let me try again from another angle.

DPS Guardian or Sentinel? Vigilance or Focus?

[Lantyssa]

Two is better than one.

[Sky]

Two is better than one.

I'm concerned about the extra layer of BS the Zen mechanic introduces. Leaning toward Guardian dps because of that and I can play more or less similar to my Juggernaut so I don't have to re-learn my character once a week.

[Ingmar]

You're probably in for a buff down the road either way.

[ajax34i]

You can't play similar to your Juggernaut (obviously).  Need to bring the T7 droid to tank for you, instead of Kira for DPS, and you need to kill shit fast before your tank dies due to no heals.  The droid doesn't interrupt damage spikes like your Juggernaut would, though of course you can use your stuns etc. to help it out.  Not sure how Doc works out as a companion.

I tried Vigilance a while ago, and I sorely missed Soresu.  Of course, I had Guardian mods rather than Might on my gear, and hadn't outfitted my droid tank all that well.  But, I didn't feel like a burst/crit machine; it was more like a meh machine.  The rotation is different; you unload focus to do damage more than while in Soresu.  Kira seemed to surpass me at DPS pretty effortlessly, so I figured why work harder for the same outcome of mobs dead and quests progressed.

[Sky]

You can't play similar to your Juggernaut (obviously).  Need to bring the T7 droid to tank for you, instead of Kira for DPS, and you need to kill shit fast before your tank dies due to no heals. 

Sorry, this duder is for Nerd Night. He'd be tough outside that, but for now he'll have a full group setup and just be straight dps, with maybe an option to offtank/pull aggro off the sage.

[Bunk]

Having now gotten a Trooper up to 10, I can already see the difference in tanking tactics vs the Jugg, just on area effects alone. At 10, the trooper has a regular shot AoE, a delayed AoE, a channeled Cone, and a channeled AoE.

Juggernaught up to 30 gets one AoE that does damage, on a 15 sec cooldown. At 32 I think, they get a melee attack that hits an arc.

[Fordel]

The Regular Shot AE (explosive round) isn't used past like, level 10 mind you, but yes, Trooper AE is not lacking at all. It's pretty awesome in fact. You'll get a PBAE too around level 30ish. 


Explosive Round basically scales for shit, costs way too much ammo and the AE portion becomes a joke very very quickly. I'm not sure there is any spec that actually uses it past the first 10 levels.




But yea, it's no contest between a Jugg and a Trooper in terms of AE threat.

[Sky]

I'm not sure there is any spec that actually uses it past the first 10 levels.

That skill mirrors perfectly 

I used it once last night just because. There's really no place to use it that doesn't have something better. Like you say, it doesn't scale and the AE component has got to be a decimal placement error.