Mechwarrior Online

[Ironwood]

Remember that a centurion has a hatch.

[Flood]

Are missiles the red-headed step child of MWO? I don't even own any LRMs anymore as they seem to be completely ineffective. I picked up a Centurion last week to try it out and find SRMs to be too darn slow to be effective (and Streaks take forever to lock).

I have actually found my most effective mech is now a CDA-2A with 6 MLs and enough DHS to fire them. (Speed Tweaked to 141kph) I simply zoom around the map till I find someones back and put a cpl of volleys into their CT rear. If they turn I disengage (and hopefully get ganked by my team) if they don't turn 6 MLs can ruin your day pretty darn quick.

Are QKDs any good? Liking the idea of a strike mech with JJs with plenty of energy slots...I just dont see a lot of QKDs ever.

As a light pilot I am not overly concerned about LRM's in most games.  Once and awhile I'll run into another light that is actually targeting for a missile boat (one of my favorites: the pilots that put a heavy item on the their TAG key and just run around with it on permanently) and I'll get hammered, but most of the time I'm able to duck and weave away from LRM strikes due to speed / maneuverability.

Regarding streaks - I've been using streaks pretty much since I started playing, and the recent fix has made them harder to use certainly.  However there's not many other weapons that are as reliably effective against other lights, so I keep them in place.  Modules, specifically Advanced Target Decay, are almost mandatory to get the most out of streaks.  I run Advanced Target Decay, 360 Target Retention and Target Info Gathering.  Along with BAP, and...Artemis.  I've read / heard that Artemis supposedly works with streaks (as a bug) so I slapped that in there too, just because, hey it can't hurt.  If you get into a circle fight then using streaks can be (more) difficult now - my suggestion would be to try more of a strafing / slashing / drive-by maneuver to get the streaks off.  I will come in on a diagonal line at full speed and let loose a full volley of lasers and streaks when I'm almost on top of them, then veer off and try to circle around for another salvo.  Again, much of this is dependent upon your overall speed, as being faster makes all of the above much, much easier.

For regular SRM's, they seem to be extremely lethal in bunches, but like most things, the problem is hit registration, targeting, lag, et al.  My experience has been you either need to be very good at leading targets (aka guessing if missiles will actually all hit), or have enough armor to be able to line up on a target and let fly without being blown to bits first to use them effectively.  So on lights I find regular SMR's to be hard to use, but on say... a Kintaro's for example, or heavier specific SRM boat mechs they dish out great damage.

Cicada's look awesome to me, and I've been tempted a few times to blow some CBills, but the lack of ECM except on one variant turns me off.  Playing with ECM a lot is honestly sort of easy mode. 

Streaks....give love a chance!   

[Sir T]

I'm finding the dual streaks on my Raven-3L to be more effective than the SRM 6 simply because the guaranteed hit is just so much better for my crappy accuracy. The SRM 6 wasn't bad at all though, if you just have one missile slot its certainly not a bad choice.

In the other Raven variants I'm playing around with I have an LRM 15 on one on them and I find it great for light harassment. And TAG is just brilliant for getting XP and so on.

I'm undecided on losing the BAP or the AMS for my mechs... :S BAP is good because it jams ECM but I tend to blow through a lot of ammo with the AMS, so it defiantly gets use, even if its killing missiles targeted onto other people.

[Shannow]

ECM is for the weak. Fight fast, fight smart and it's deadly.

[Flood]

I'm finding the dual streaks on my Raven-3L to be more effective than the SRM 6 simply because the guaranteed hit is just so much better for my crappy accuracy. The SRM 6 wasn't bad at all though, if you just have one missile slot its certainly not a bad choice.

In the other Raven variants I'm playing around with I have an LRM 15 on one on them and I find it great for light harassment. And TAG is just brilliant for getting XP and so on.

I'm undecided on losing the BAP or the AMS for my mechs... :S BAP is good because it jams ECM but I tend to blow through a lot of ammo with the AMS, so it defiantly gets use, even if its killing missiles targeted onto other people.

You'll have to see what works best for your playstyle, but if it was me I'd drop AMS.  You free up it's weight plus the ammo weight.  Again, I find that I can neutralize most LRM attacks by how I pilot my mech, and speed.  Once and awhile I run into another streak wielding light that picks a fight with me, but not often enough for me to want to pack AMS.  Just zip from cover to cover, always always always, and remember you'll make most of your CBills as a bone picker and opportunist.  Streaktaros and other assorted SRM boats you don't want to engage anyway so...*shrug* 

But, if you drop BAP, I doubt you'll see that much of an effect in how you use your sensors in a PUG battle.  I've run BAP and Advanced Sensor Range together, and yes the range increase is noticeable, but again when I dropped that setup I didn't feel hampered really.  The ECM countering aspect is a definite point though.

Glad you're still havin' fun though!

[eldaec]

If you fight in the crowd, AMS has more team utility. If you hunt stragglers and scout for other lrm guys, BAP does.

Imo.

Either one frees up 1.5 tons.

[Falconeer]

Looks like the next Hero 'mech is gonna be a weird Catapult, called the Jester.

(Double AMS...)

[5150]

Remember that a centurion has a hatch.

Isn't that just the Wang?

[Ironwood]

No, I'm sure it's a hatch.

[Typhon]

Cent has hatch.

[Sir T]

 The ECM countering aspect is a definite point though.

Snag is that if you have both BAP and ECM on, the ECM countering of the BAP does not work.

I'll probably lose the AMS. The extra sensor range is good for scouting around.

Got a new graphics card today, definite improvement in mech enjoyment

[Shannow]

For shits and giggles last night we did a premade with 3 Ilyas and an Orion.

Each Ilya had 3 UAC/5s and the Orion 2 UAC/5.

Not as successful as we would've like but fuck it was fun taking down Atlas's in like 4 seconds..:) (tends to attract a loooot of negative attention)

The daka daka was rather awesome, the overwhelming silence when all of us jammed at the same time was hilarious..:)

[Ironwood]

Watching 4 Jager/Riflemen going mental with 4 AC's each is also a joy.  The Battlemaster with the 3 AC on the arm is also a giggle.

[Sir T]

Had a lot of fun tonight in my Ravens. I was doing over 100 points of damage in multiple games with My Raven 3L and an LRM packing Raven 2X. The Raven 4X with the Jump Jets though, I don't know what the heck to do with it. I'm grinding it to get the Elite stuff, but I cant get it to work at all. In keeping with the last 2 posts I have had must success by sticking an AC 2 on it and sniping and TAGing stuff around corners. Its the one Raven I have that I feel really needs an XL engine to move fast and use the JJs, but it will take a LOT of money grinding to get one for it. Ho hum. Still, only 4000xp to go on it before its elited and I can forget about it for a bit.

[Falconeer]

Amazing player-made guide to the 'mechs we have so far. Interesting to notice that Garth Erlam (Community Manager and Dev) said he's gonna use some of it for the descriptions in UI 2.0. While it is time that they put some lore and descriptions in the new interface, it is worth noting that -surprise- they aren't ready and probably not even being worked on yet.

[Sir T]

Very nice indeed! Definitely have a close look at it later.

Been having some really great matches tonight. I went one on one with an atlas (which was a trial atlas do the guy probably was new) and stripped a torso before running off. Did 330 damage that game. Been having some fantastic fights in the LRM variant as well. I'm loving this.

Anyway, I've kind of settled on a setup for the Raven 3L

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=33&l=fedd60661c5853e0433e9cedbe51f503a2a17b54

Its essentially the standard variant with the narc gone, the XL engine replaced with a standard, the SRM 6 replaced with 2 streaks, and the armour beefed up. Now that I have the speed tweak it clocks in at 114, which to be honest is absolutely fine for me. I can chase off Jenners and whatnot with the streaks, and I can get where I'm needed. I think, as well, that too much speed would disorient me, and frankly I've lived so much after losing torsos in this that I don't thing the XL tradeoff is worth it. I can run in and out and around a brawl and fill the air with streaks, and I can sit there tagging as well as the TAG is in all my weapon groups (why not, it costs no heat) I'm still playing around with the placement of things and I swap the beagle and the AMS back and forth, but that's essentially the mech I will keep.

The LRM variant I'm using still needs upgrading but I'm having so much fun with it I don't care. Here it is

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=34&l=5cd5ba8fbe72da55cf6089e3369dc99b603db62d

Its got an LRM 15 with Artemas, 3 small pulse lasers, a TAG and a BAP. The small lasers have a max range of 180 which is the LRM minimum range, so when the enemies come inside that range I stop shooting LRMs and break out the small pulse lasers, which means I run cool. Yes it's slow, but it can brawl somewhat effectively and it does the range harassment really well. And the nice thing is that with the TAG in both weapon groups and on one of its own I can be TAGing them for other players if I get stuck brawling with them so they can get utterly plastered by my team mates missiles, giving me Cash and XP without even realizing. And the Tag burns through enemy ECM, making them target-table. And afaik they help my own Missiles.   I'll probably take the BAP out for a bigger engine when I have the spare C-bills.

Anyway, that's where I am for now.

*edit* I spel gud

Anyone up for meeting up some night for some team fun?

[Shannow]

What times do you play t.  I'm on past 9pm us est time.  Can find me on the comatar ts.

[Hoax]

I keep waiting for PGI to grow the fuck up as devs (I'd know because they would get rid of ghost heat and instead fix the actual heat scale and overheat penalties) so I can play this game that I'd like to play again. Sadly its become obvious that will never happen.

[Falconeer]

Ghost Heat is an acceptable cheap mechanic if they can implement an easy to read tool in the mechlab so one can understand how it works and build around it. It is a fact that "ghost heat "made the game more balanced and varied.

I think what the only thing this game needs very badly is fucking Community Warfare. And with that the damn BattleTech lore.

[Hoax]

No its 100% unacceptable and 100% poor design. If the meta is more varied and more balanced its probably because they nerfed PPC's into the ground. Ghost heat is fucking clownshoes design.

It doesn't reduce pinpoint accuracy.

Its yet ANOTHER anti-newbie mechanic.

Its fucking stupid and illogical.

It means instead of boating you have to artificially design around this stupid band aid mechanic.

[Falconeer]

No its 100% unacceptable and 100% poor design. If the meta is more varied and more balanced its probably because they nerfed PPC's into the ground. Ghost heat is fucking clownshoes design.

It doesn't reduce pinpoint accuracy.

Its yet ANOTHER anti-newbie mechanic.

Its fucking stupid and illogical.

It means instead of boating you have to artificially design around this stupid band aid mechanic.

I agree it is 100% poor design. But it made the game better, so I am cool with it.

[Sir T]

I think its a bad design simply because there's nothing in the UI that says you are going to get extra heat if you fire these 3 weapons together. As a fix its good enough for Government work, but its the hidden nature of it that's a bad thing, IMHO.

[Shannow]

Sadly I have to ask.  Wtf is ghost heat

[Sir T]

Basically when certain weapons are fired together, after a certain number they generate extra heat on top of the total heat of the individual weapons.

There's a chart here http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_heatscale

[eldaec]

Sadly I have to ask.  Wtf is ghost heat

If you fire more than an arbitrarily defined number of weapons that are in the same arbitrarily defined set within 0.5 seconds you generate an arbitrarily defined amount of extra heat.

For instance more than 6 MPL or ML, more than 2 PPC or ERPPC.

The groupings and values are posted somewhere in the forums and nowhere else as far as I know.

[eldaec]

If they want to avoid boating they should have just made the weapon costs more pronounced.

Eg. They can have Energy weapons generate a truck load of heat, ballistics weigh a metric fucktonne, and missiles use ridiculous amount of slots.

[Falconeer]

Again, I find the mechanism of having weapons generating "exponential" heat when fired together not only accetpable gameplay wise but even reasonable within fake-logic, there's nothing weird in some heat generating systems to get hotter when used at the same time instead of just applying a flat value on top of each other.

And it works very well not as an anti-boat mechanism (no reason to), but as an anti-alpha mechanism.

The values are always arbitrary, nothing wrong with that, everything is already arbitrary: range, falloff, bullet speed, heat values, damage. The big problem here is the RIDICULOUS lack of documentation. If this system happened to be already in the game before beta started AND MOST IMPORTANTLY if it happened to be documented and explained, we wouldn't have so many problems with it.

And this has nothing to do with the fact that weapon convergence should be a factor, or that damage should not be pinpoint for all weapons, and so on.

[Shannow]

They REALLY don't want you to have 2 AC20's on your mech huh.

[Ironwood]

Lots of mechs can manage it.

On a related note, it can really fuck up your day.

[Falconeer]

They REALLY don't want you to have 2 AC20's on your mech huh.

See, that's the kind of annoying misconception I am talking about: you can have 2 AC20 on your 'mech exactly as you could before. NOTHING CHANGED.

What changed, is that you can't shoot them *exactly* at the same time, because due to the lack of convergence mechanics that would be like having a single 40 damage bullet hitting a pinpoint locaton and that is stupid. Now you have to shoot them with a slight delay from each other, and honestly I can't see the big deal. Again, I think this helped the game.

[Ironwood]

Well, you still can.

[Merusk]

Inability to develop & apply convergence instead of using heat to fix that should tell you how terrible they are at their jobs.

[Falconeer]

Inability to develop & apply convergence instead of using heat to fix that should tell you how terrible they are at their jobs.

I agree that they are terrible at their jobs. It took me a year to realize it.

That said, I think that adding convergence mechanics, or some sort of cone of fire, and removing the pinpoint element, could potentially make the whole "shooting" mechanics a little less fun and engaging. We will probably never know, but I think part of the snappy, rewarding fun in this game comes from the pinpoint accuracy. It feels extremely satisfactory to hit EXACTLY where you wanted, especially in a game like this where different locations play such an important role.

So I agree that they didn't dabble with convergence because they are inept, but I also think that there is a chance the game would have been less fun with convergence/cone-of-fair/recoil, etc.

[Sir T]

For 23.52 heat instead of 12 heat I'd still push the button on 2 AC 20s. Its an acceptable game mechanic for me. but perfect but it gets the job done. I think its better than seeing a mass of 6 PPC stalkers walking around pinpont shooting everything for 60 HP RIGHT THERE.

For example, from last march http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGT-x32L9q8

[Ironwood]

No, Sorry, Falc, but I reject your premise entirely.  Pinpoint accuracy on a big walking mech of death should only happen with a very skilled pilot who's standing still and an idiot across from him.  All of which can be simulated in one fashion or another.

Beyond that, the excitement is coring or heading someone with luck.

But instead, we're doing the heat thing.  Fuck the Heat thing.  The Heat thing should be for other things.