f13.net forums - John Smedley's state of the...future?

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 29, 2025, 02:41:49 PM

we're back, baby

Quote from: John Smedley

Sony Online Entertainment Looks Towards the Future

With the launch of EverQuest in 1999, Sony Online Entertainment (back
then we were Verant) was on the leading edge of what became a revolution
in the video game business... Online Gaming. We certainly didn't invent
it...in fact; we stood on the shoulders of some pretty amazing games,
including Ultima Online... Meridian 59 and many, many other games
including some great text MUDs.

EverQuest had that magic that propelled it to selling over 3 Million
units over its six year (well almost) lifespan. We've released 9
expansion packs during that time that have added an absolutely massive
amount of content that we're pretty proud of. Certainly some of those
expansions were better than others, but I think our goal has always been
the same.... to entertain our players.

With the launch of EverQuest II, our goal was to refine EverQuest... to
distill the things that made EverQuest great, but also to add its own
flavor and gameplay style. I think it's fair to say we also needed to
aim for a more casual gamer... and make the game appeal to people that
may not have the same amount of time they had when EverQuest first came
out. As a company we needed to also appeal to a wider base of people. I
think you can see from the universal appeal of the Lord of the Rings
books (and oh yeah, the movies too....) fantasy worlds are what we can
all call "mass market". I'm really proud of EverQuest II and I honestly
believe we delivered on our goals of making an incredibly fun and
immersive world that our players want to be a part of and make their
own.

Over the years, we've learned a lot. The biggest thing we've learned is
that our players care very much about everything we do and the changes
we make to their world. I cannot tell you how many thousands of emails
I've gotten over the years complaining about class balance, nerfs, and
overall changes we've made to the game. While I can absolutely
understand and respect where each and every one of the people that took
the time to write these passionate emails came from (and I read every
single one of them and do my best to respond to them as well), I can
also assure you that our game teams really do care about the changes
they make. Remember... YOU, our players, write our paychecks.

But it's more than that.

It's also about truly caring about what we do. The vast majority of our
development teams come from our player base. That's a fact that I'm
incredibly proud of. In fact, it may surprise you to know that EverQuest
actually was the catalyst for one of our Executive Team members to meet
his wife (he just got married within the last 6 months)... she was in
his guild... one thing led to another and... well the rest is as they
say history.

We've certainly made our share of mistakes over the years... but
overall, we've tried to stay true to our primary goal of entertaining
you.

That's our job description.

Now what's been interesting from our perspective is what really serious
competition is doing to the online gaming space. World of Warcraft has
come on the scene and is doing awesome. Kudos to Blizzard on what I
think is a spectacular game. I've played the heck out of it, and I love
it (as have many people here at SOE). To a game developer, having
another game developer play your game is the ultimate compliment... so
to the folks at Blizzard we say "Nicely done".

But don't think for a second that we don't see WoW as both a great game
AND Blizzard as serious competition.

Personally... I'm glad they are out there. They keep us honest. They
keep us focused and they force us to play with our 'A' game. They've
certainly opened some eyes in our company to styles of gameplay that are
different than we would have come up with inside SOE. I hope they're
also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school'
probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction
we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core"
game, I think bad things would have happened. We need to be about larger
scale mass-entertainment... because that's what online gaming is slowly
becoming. Our games just need to be fun... and easy to get into.

In the United States there are around 2 Million paying online gamers
(this is after WoW btw). That's up from 250,000 back before EverQuest
was released... and I'm only counting the MMOs... if you start to add in
the Pogo's of the world we're probably talking about 3-4 Million online
gamers... and I have no idea what scary numbers some of these online
poker places are bringing in.

What this means is that making future online games is a big business
that is going to be increasingly competitive. I think that's good for
you, and good for us. It's going to ensure great games get made... and I
can tell you we're in this for the long haul.

Where are we going? What are we going to be doing to revolutionize this
business? Well let me throw out just a few of the things we're thinking
about here at SOE.

What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children... What if
your characters could have children and pass on the family name.....

What if players could build fantastic dungeons that become part of the
worlds we create with tools we give them? How would that work exactly?

Can MMORPGs have skill-based combat?

What if?

I mention these things to be provocative. I want to make sure we're
going to take what we do to the next level... and that's going to mean
putting some next generation ideas out there and seeing the kinds of
things you actually want... but I at least want to start this dialogue
and stir the pot a little. We're very interested in your ideas about
where things go from here.

John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment

So I got that in an email. I can't make this shit up folks. He believes it. Who wants to remind him he just released Everquest 2? Anyone?

Quote from: John Smedley

What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children... What if
your characters could have children and pass on the family name.....

That would be The Sims 2...

Quote

What if players could build fantastic dungeons that become part of the
worlds we create with tools we give them? How would that work exactly?

That would be NWN...

Quote

Can MMORPGs have skill-based combat?

That would be Planetside...

Quote

I mention these things to be provocative. I want to make sure we're
going to take what we do to the next level... and that's going to mean
putting some next generation ideas out there and seeing the kinds of
things you actually want... but I at least want to start this dialogue
and stir the pot a little. We're very interested in your ideas about
where things go from here.

I don't see anything next generation in those ideas.

His message almost sounds like he's conceding the EQ-model MMORPGs to Blizzard.

Quote from: Trippy on February 11, 2005, 09:10:50 PM

His message almost sounds like he's conceding the EQ-model MMORPGs to Blizzard.

If he does that, I'll START the goddamn John Smedley fanclub. God love the man who kills EQ clones. Booya!

I had a good laugh reading that.

It reminds me Dawn, he left out only the negative ping code and permdeath.

Quote from: HRose on February 11, 2005, 09:23:58 PM

It reminds me Dawn, he left out only the negative ping code and permdeath.

I see what you're doing there, and it's not even remotely amusing.

It doesn't sound anything like Dawn. Dawn went to great ends to create the most elaborate crock of bullshit fans would eat up.

Smedley is just repeating stuff back to mouthbreathers to make them happy.

It's funny, he's dreaming some of the same stuff we're dreaming - but he has the power to make it happen. And doesn't. I'm going to have to bring a copy of this letter to E3 and have him sign it in blood.

Bastard didn't give any new subscriptions numbers.

Bruce

Children? Jesus holy shit Christ, like catassers don't think EQ is real life as it is. EA sent out a rather odd survey regarding what people would like to see as well. Nothing as fucked up as virtual kids, but enough weirdness (player-run monsters and shit) to make me think they're not going quietly.

But really, I hope this virtual offspring thing goes through, just for the fucking pathetic stories it's bound to spawn.

Played correctly, children could be an interesting dynamic.

Played in the watered down politically correct way any game not rated M would play it, would be crap.

I want to train my kid who to garrote nuns and members of the church - whatever church you have on whatever world. Thx.

Dunno wtf Smed is talking about.

If a MMORPG implements children, they will probably be of the sort that Atriarch was planning on having. Your children are personal spawn that serve only to provide you with a new avatar if your main one dies.

A more realistic implementation would have way too many issues like: sex, pregnancy, ownership, education, resposibility, PKing, etc. Bartle lists them in his book, but I'm too lazy to plagiarize it.

Quote from: schild on February 11, 2005, 09:36:44 PM

Smedley is just repeating stuff back to mouthbreathers to make them happy.

But I'm sincere. I'm not saying that he won't do that kind of stuff. I really believe that those ideas are weak and pointless.

Quote from: HRose on February 12, 2005, 12:34:07 AM

Quote from: schild on February 11, 2005, 09:36:44 PM

Smedley is just repeating stuff back to mouthbreathers to make them happy.

But I'm sincere. I'm not saying that he won't do that kind of stuff. I really believe that those ideas are weak and pointless.

My mistake. I confused you with someone of value. If you don't want skill-based combat and the other things he listed, please wait your turn in the EU WoW queue.

I want those things. I just don't think Smedley has the balls to do it. I'd love for him to call me on it.

Some buttstains are going to have a cyber-orgy with their NPC five-year old and post screenshots, and we bloody well know it. rolleyes

I thought that NWN taught us that player-made scenarios are ass.

"What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children...
What if your characters could have children and pass on the family name....."

What if... those Virtual Children had Virtual Blogs, where they wrote Virtual Boring Shit every day?

Oh, the horror.

I can't wait to see the minigames for both fertilization and giving birth.

Bruce

Quote from: Trippy on February 11, 2005, 09:10:50 PM

I don't see anything next generation in those ideas.

Lets not start that again. Combining those ideas into one game successfully would be next generation because it would be a clear demarcation between the generation that had it and the generation that didn't.

I wish I had a good idea for a next generation MMO. All I know is I'd like immersion to be better. I'd like my little virtual house to actually matter in some way instead of being a place to get out my inner-Martha Stewart. I'd like some sort of effect on the game itself, rather than everything I do not really mattering in the sceme of things. I'd like to feel...invested in the game somehow. Maybe virtual children would help with this somehow I don't know. I'd also like to see factions that matter. With perks and disadvantages for each faction. I'd like for character creation to be very hard because all the options are very appealing and I have to make choices like "well, if I take this ability, I can't have that ability!"

Thank you Bruce. I had a good chuckle out of that one.

I seem to remember that Ryzom was going to have character aging, and you could play as your character's child. I wonder what happened to that?

Joking aside, it could be interesting if done right.

Quote from: SirBruce on February 12, 2005, 06:50:16 AM

I can't wait to see the minigames for both fertilization and giving birth.

They could use the EQ2 counter-action tradeskill system. Quick, the sperm is in danger of exhaustion, hit the "Swim Stronger" icon. He's only 30% of the way to his target, and we've already lost the possibility of a pristine baby. ABORT ABORT!!!!

Oh crap, hit the cancel button too late, we got a Crude quality child. Let's make this one a warrior, and name him Smeglor.

Quote from: AlteredOne on February 12, 2005, 11:09:50 AM

Good one. God, that really points out the absurdity of the whole thing.

Quote from: John Smedley

They've certainly opened some eyes in our company to styles of gameplay that are
different than we would have come up with inside SOE. I hope they're
also opening up the eyes of other MMO developers that the 'old school'
probably won't cut it any more. I'm glad that we went in the direction
we did with EQ II because had we stuck with making an even "harder core"
game, I think bad things would have happened.

Does anyone else read a nice little snipe/warning at Sigil and Vanguard in that paragraph?

This is what happens when you let the business manager have dreams about being a game designer, largely unimplementable idea's with negligible gameplay. And I'm amused they still believe they've created a "casual friendly" game in EQ2. However I will agree that WoW kicking their asses is probably just what they needed, give them the motivation to think more carefully about what they create.

So when is SOE going to stop screwing around and just buy Second Life.

Quote from: Smedley Whiplash

What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children... What if
your characters could have children and pass on the family name.....

SOE's secret project is digipets? Brilliant!

Quote from: Kageru on February 12, 2005, 02:05:24 PM

What is sad is that everyone claims for passion and then does nothing till it's a market danger to push you forward.

If there's passion you don't need motivation. You have it already. Smedley openly stated: "I want money"

It's fun to see how they go smiley when a bigger shark suddenly appears. Exactly what happens every day on the PvP servers.

Competition is a good thing. And it drives innovation as people strive to differentiate themselves in the marketplace. Which, again, is a good thing.

Quote

What is sad is that everyone claims for passion and then does nothing till it's a market danger to push you forward.

Doing something you disagree with does not mean that passion is lacking. I can easily say that the people most passionate about their vocations have been the ones I've met in the MMO industry. Consider that 15 years ago, MMOs were science fiction. 10 years ago they were considered by most mainstream analysts to be literally impossible. And that 5 years ago the market consisted of 3 games.

Quote from: Lum on February 12, 2005, 07:21:00 PM

Competition is a good thing. And it drives innovation as people strive to differentiate themselves in the marketplace. Which, again, is a good thing.

Quote

What is sad is that everyone claims for passion and then does nothing till it's a market danger to push you forward.

No, I didn't put Smedley's ideas against my comment on the lack of passion.

Smedley's ideas are poor from my point of view no matter of the context. It's purely my opinion about those few suggestion he made. So I disagree on ideas but the ideas aren't the reason why I said there's a lack of passion.

Instead I don't agree that you need the market to push you so that you feel motivated. Now I'm not attacking anyone concretely, I'm attacking the sense of what is being said. True or not in the reality.

If you tell me that you work only when there's a danger I won't believe that you are passionate. Because the passion gives you already MORE than enough motivation to move, no matter of what happens around.

EDIT: "as people strive to differentiate themselves in the marketplace" I swear that what I see is EXACTLY the opposite. I see a constant recycle of what others did better. In particular right now and I'm sure you don't need a list of examples.

It's exactly in the case of "lack of passion" that you don't know where to go. And what you do is "jump in the bandwagon". So EQ2 is becoming casual friendly because Smedley doesn't want Blizzard to loot their corpse. I see assimilation WAY more than differentiation.

HRose, I believe that for the most part, MMO Devs, Designers, and whatnot all have the passion to make a good game. Unfortunately, they all have to please corporations, either the greater part of the company, like the various teams at SOE, or the publisher who funds development in the case of smaller groups like Mythic or Cornered Rat Studios.

Corporations, Marketers, Investors.... these are the people with no passion, and they have their finger poised over the "You're Fired" button for all those passionate people. They care for the money, the almighty Return On Investment, the big sales figures. They are part of the problem with games in general, not just MMOs.

However, they aren't all bad. That cold heartless nature can sometimes keep a lid on overzealous dreamers, forcing them to look at reality before going off the deep end with ideas that just won't work. You see this when sub numbers start dropping, and suddenly the devs become all friendly and talkative and want to find out how they can improve the game to get you to stay/come back. That's not the dev's voice, they wanted you to play all along, but are forced to be more open to suggestion by the people who only want the money.

Alkiera

Quote from: Trippy on February 11, 2005, 09:10:50 PM

His message almost sounds like he's conceding the EQ-model MMORPGs to Blizzard.

Yes it does. It also sounded pathetic - what possible business objective was achieved with this dribble? It sounded like they were going back to the drawing board - which they should - but broadcasting that serves no purpose.

I think it was El Gallo who said "SOE does not wear desperation well".

Technically SOE compliments themselves by casting WoW as "competition" to EQ2. Competition is a zero sum game. My impression is that a large portion of WoW players are new to MMORGPS - and otherwise would not be playing if it were not for WoW. The success of WoW has less to do with poaching EQ players than it does expanding the whole industry player base.

For entrepeneurs out there - the timing to raise money for start-up activity in this area should be improving - since WoW's numbers indicate that this industry as a lot more room for growth than any expected. I guess this is what SOE is recognizing as well.

Here's the problem as I see it. The MMORPG industry has room for unlimited player growth.

Here's why it won't happen: Companies pick the shittiest worlds with the shittiest lore they can possibly find. I'm sorry, focus groups suck wind.

I'd enjoy living in the Deus Ex world. Or a world like it.

I'd love living in the world of Transmet.

I'd love living in the Fallout world.

I'd love living in the world of Final Fantasy VII (but no other FF world).

Don't even get me started on Planescape.

There are a whole mess of properties and genres that haven't even begun to be investigated in any positive manner. Little piddly companies making junk like Neocron and FoM just won't work for the post apocalyptic setting. They need money, lots of it, and more importantly: It needs to be done correctly.

I'm tired of original fantasy worlds. There are enough good ones already made that original lore just doesn't cut it. Bite the bullet and buy the rights. All your fantasy worlds suck. It's not your fault computer geeks have been spoonfed fantasy since the legend of King Arthur all the way up through Dragonlance. It is however, your fault, that you don't buy a decent property instead of coming up with half-baked crap like the "World of Warcraft." Ponder it for a second: It's uninteresting.

It's also your fault that you caved in to Lucasarts (or however it happened) and didn't set SW:G in a more...profitable times. Jedi = Money. Nerfherders and Gas Farmers != Money.

Striked out because I've no faith in companies buying decent licenses.

Quote from: jpark on February 12, 2005, 11:15:44 PM

Quote from: Trippy on February 11, 2005, 09:10:50 PM

His message almost sounds like he's conceding the EQ-model MMORPGs to Blizzard.

I see it as an attempt to create some "buzz" for SOE's future games. They've clearly lost the battle between EQ2 and WoW for the successor to EQ and are now trying to create the sort of rabid fanboy support for vague vaporware products that other non-existent MMOs like Mythica and Wish have enjoyed.

The discussion was different. What Lum said (or how he read the letter) was:
- World of Warcraft will help SOE to adjust the aim and consider elements that they didn't "get" the first time. Their commitment is unchanged and always strong. Before and now.

While my opinion is that now they are lively because they don't like Blizzard looting them and become the number one. So they need to start to move again, they have to catch up.

There's no intention to work on the ideas. There's the intention to capitalize. A game for every slice of the pie. There's no intention to develop and advance one world, there's just the plan to conquer the whole market, once a slice of the pie is conquered they move on a new project. They never consolidate. There are targets and there are games. There isn't a plan and commitment to ONE "world" to let it advance, evolve, improve.

Instead there's the need to cover and conquer the market, developing games to fill the possible gaps. Instead of INTEGRATING parts into one world, they SPECIALIZE. Classic EQ for the catasses, EQ2 to hook new players with new shiney, Planetside for twitch etc...

Conclusion: It's market-driven development, not passion-driven. Their plan doesn't follow the desires they have "no matter what". They do not have wishes or aspirations. They only aim for the market and develop the game as a specific target.

And yes, I know that this is a type of work with more passion than the average situation. There are real-life works that are way more compelling, interesting and rewarding. There isn't really much to desire in this industry if you aren't ALREADY within. Already liking this. If you are proud to "make videogames" you are already odd.